Bitcoin Forum

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I can verify that this is legit.... Vladimir had 50 GH pointed at my pool for the whole weekend.  He can do what he says.

But your pools now has 3GH... so whats the point... it didnt bring in any extras hashers

Wont argue with you there.... just saying that he can deliver what he says he can. :)

Bad luck.
It's a pity that no block was found.
With one or more computed blocks this would look different.

agreed. :/   just bad luck.

How exactly do you measure "% of pool efficiency"?  ???

Stale shares?

Using pool hopping it MIGHT be possible to get at least to 0 loss or even a small advantage using your hash rate, even though you charge ~9-10% above expected outcome.

It might be anyways easy to just set up a proxy pool like http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=26866 and pay you for mining there, so no need on your side to install anything...

Would you be fine doing so or is this against your terms?

Vladimir, you are welcome to join my pool and earn your income like everybody else.
Please, feel free to contact me via PM or in freenode.
 
Cheers!

 

Keep in mind Vladimir expects ~1,5BTC per hour at current difficulty when mining for your pool (that's PPS+10%). You better make sure your personal multipool is set up correctly, with 100% availability, and can actually handle more than 10 getwork requests per second. If it dies over night (8 hours), that's 8*~1,5BTC = ~12BTC. (Although I'm sure Vladimir has backups in place.)

Trust me, I won't use such "services" - the little surplus that would be left after all would barely rectify all the work that would be needed to even run such a server etc. anyways + the risk of killing pools with that stuff is also quite high (hopping with my 600 MH/s is something different than with 50 GH/s, load wise).

If any pool operator is desperate/stupid enough to pay for this (in the end, you pay AT LEAST the equivalent of constant 5 GH/s to vladimir with him taking 0 risk at all! Just to make him flip a switch in a config script). I would rather flee from this pool because it means the pool operator is stupid (in my opinion).

Yes, BUT:

If you just put in some BTC it gives you a chance to test your infrastructure for your own 20-30giga mining rigs you put up the next weeks ;)

First it was mining contracts and now you offer 50 Gh pool starter for ONLY 10% extra. You are really SPECiAL.

Others already explained pretty well whats wrong here, but I guess you will tell us, that pool owners are already lining up for this great service, along side all those smarts that are using your mining contracts that produce them excellent results for their money.

No problem. Every man can use hes rigs as he pleases.

I was just thinking what a morale booster this will be for all the small pools, when guys with 3-5GHash/s rigs start to show up and start putting the small guys on the map. Not just hoping from one pool to another, but really sticking with us, the small guys.
You do not loose any BTC and probably make even more.
In the long run, the whole bitcoin mining community will probably win... or soon we all be slaves to Big Pools and they can rob us blind if they please. :)

Like they say, fuck globalization, fuck big pool pools!

As server costs are somewhat constant, but small pools might just have a VERY small income stream (everthing above 0% fee is not competitive) a small pool has a VERY high chance in my opinion to either go bankrupt, steal coins once a block has been solved (which might take a looooong time on many of these tiny pools) or do other nasty stuff.

I have to agree with you. This particular service makes as little sense as those absurdly expensive mining contract where all the risk is transfered to the buyer.


 At the same time, no need to spread the FUD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt) while you can actually help the whole mining community to grow stronger. Small pools (30Gh+) grow and big pools, with 3-10% fees, do not like this at all. This is normal, greed and fear and blaa blaa blaa. :)
Karma....

Ok, reality check:

A pool with 30 GH/s might currently solve ~5 blocks per difficulty. If the pool keeps the transaction fees (some far bigger pools like mineco.in don't do that!) this results in ~0.5 BTC or ~1 BTC/month.

Can you really host a server and provide a good service for ~15 USD/month?! Also you loose everytime a quick block is found.


Pooled mining is about reducing variance at the cost of moving trust from yourself (= solo mining, with the highest possible variance) to pool operators (who hopefully pay out proper amounts etc.). Sorry, but someone slapping an open-source pool script on a cheap webhost is NOT what I consider trustworthy. Usually my first question(s) that I asked in nearly any "NEW POOL COMING UP; JOIN ALL IN!!!" thread couldn't even be answered by these "operators" (Usually I ask how/if transaction fees get distributed, if the pool operator keeps a fee and what's the payout model).

You help the mining community grow stronger by helping develop p2p-pool or actively testing and reporting bugs in miners and bitcoind. Not by opening the next xenland/simplecoin clone and hoping to get rich. Just read through the btcguild thread and you know how much work it means to grow from 50 to 500 to 5000 MH/s

Vladimir won't ever admit that both of his business ventures are complete nonsense.

Mining contracts that produce far less (less than 50%) bitcoins, that people could actually buy on the exchange on the day they would send him payment for his contract.

50 Gh of hashing power for PPS+10% offer for pool owners who actually try to help community by offering new pools for miners. He expects new pool owners to take a loss  just so they able to add a measly 50 Gh of power. After pool owner that accepts this service realizes pool needs natural growth and cuts Vladimir 50 Gh service, pool will most likely lose big % of other pool miners as well and in most cases soon return to its previous size or even get smaller as a result of this.

Vladimir won't admit any of this. He will rather keep on saying that whoever disagrees with him, even if they provide solid explanation and math behind it, are basically idiots and haters. He is running a business. Its just that this business makes no sense and will eventually slow down or even cease to exist  when all this initial bitcoin boom will cool down and general public gets more knowledgeable on the subject.

Can't wait to hear his next idea.

 

You are grossly underestimating the amount of time it takes to get pushpool and mining farm(xenland)/simplecoin to work.  You don't just slap it up and hope to get rich.  I have had to recode hundreds of lines of code and diagnose for hundreds of hours to get to where we are today.  We also don't use a cheap webhost, the bill stings right now to be honest.  I have a feeling you haven't tried to get a public pool running and you are guessing with your comments.

By "You", you mean Vladimir?

I joined the Triplemining (https://Krokodill.triplemining.com/register) when they had 18 miners :) an stared my own so called "mini pool". Yes, the same one that forum administrator attacked because some morons got carried away with posting invitations.  :'(

At the moment, we are cruising along at ~40 Ghs and have about 145 active miners.
I think the pool owners have done wonderful job keeping everything up and running. Yes, we had some bad luck with a massive block an it took us forever and some miners deserted the pool (dropped from 70Ghs).
Most important for slow miner like me is this: my final payouts are slightly better than in other pools I tested, even when I have no income from my minipool members.
 
So, if any of you likes to join us on same terms as everybody else, you are more than welcome. Maybe you are better off joining us than staring another pool and going trough all the bull shit and shit storms new pools have to.

What you should call your service is variance stabilization.
Only a simple minded fool doesn't see this kind of service can be very valuable for a small pool operator who wishes to grow.

Not worth PPS+10% imo, but definitely 2-3%. The faster your pool solves blocks, the more people will join creating a snowball effect

Ultimately you don't even need the original 50ghash/s from Vladimir because you have momentum on your own.
Then you can collect small fees (0.5% per block) and eventually make it all back.

The less ghash/s you have the bigger the variance swings will be. In the worst case (like http://btcpool24.com )
everyone will leave after the first unlucky round due to low hash rate & high difficulty, and your entire pool dies. You'll never see a cent from block fees because none will be found.

Why would anyone do this when there are 0% pools around? Only if you get to a size like deepbit (where ppl seem to believe it's better to pay 3% fees to get a share of ~1/2 of all blocks) you'd be able to charge fees for yourself. They also have the early adopter's bonus.

Just look at the mainframe pool, where vladimir tested this offer out. http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=24650.0

As soon as he was away, the pool dropped back to nothingness. If you want to have Vlad on your pool, even with perfect 0% luck (unrealistic, as variance is that big!) prepare to pay him ~2 BTC/day additional to the ~20 BTC he anyways would get in the long run.

Other pools have already offered some rewards per day/found block for early miners, but they still didn't bite. This offer here however is just plain arrogant in my opinion. Tiny pools have to fight with variance anyways a lot, they might be better off with writing a plugin for a pool hopper, setting their payout to proportional and praying for a few short rounds in the beginning. 50 GH/s don't stabilize much, at least not that much to rectify 10% extra to 0 variance(!).

Vlad if you get bored or have a stray card, point it to coolcoin.net! We are brand new but we are . .. . COOL!  Be GooD Man, thanks!

I'll take the liberty of ninja quoting yourself out of context:


I see the value you offer, but I still highly doubt that it is worth more than 0 variance + maybe some fixed donation amount (like 2 BTC/week or so).

As you get paid upfront (I hope for your own good... ;) ) anyways, there is little need to make a lot of profit for a much better deal than you get mining solo in the first place.

I would not match this current offer, but I'd LOVE to offer 50 GH/s (or wait! make that 1000 GH/s!) mining contracts for 399 GBP/GH just 1 GBP cheaper than you! Payment in BTC is possible and preferred (so I don't have to transfer to MtGox before) and I offer 0 variance payments of course! The nice thing is, I don't even have to buy and operate any hardware besides a PC to handle bitcoind for this. ::)

As pool hopping currently runs at more than 200% efficiency (I got lucky on a few short rounds) for me, I guess it would be dumb to cut my earnings by accepting only 105% earnings... However once more pools switch to proper payout structures, I would love to offer my hash rate for 105% payouts.

+1  This is indeed the real logic behind what Vlad is doing.   In the beginning its the variance that hurts a small pool and discourages miners from joining.  Thanks for pointing this out.

Well nothingness might be a bit strong.  The pool is still running great and is still available for those looking for an alternative.   What really has hurt Mainframe is a very unlucky first round.   I still see new users signing up every day but i think people are just waiting to see that first block solved and paid before jumping in completely.   Our attempt was to try and hit that first block as quickly as possible and reduce some variance for the miners while the pool is young and growing and we have just run into horrible luck in the first round.  A shame really. 

By "You" I meant Sukrim, who believes it's easy to just slap up a new public pool in a couple minutes.

phorensic, I think you miss understood Sukrim initial post.