Bitcoin Forum

If you've been unable to obtain a refund to your BFL PayPal order shoot me a message and I will help you.  I have helped out a few people already and all have received refunds within 24 hours.

I will not be reading/responding in this thread.  PM's only.  Yes, it works.

For real refunds ==> https://forums.butterflylabs.com/classifieds-245/

Come on guys !
No more eternal queue !

I Help you ;)

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3s4rnOG2O1qcbs8ao1_500.gif

It really did work. I just got my refund and I didn't have an order on the books. I'm now going to see if my dog Trixie can get a refund also.

Go through your CC company it's easy I did and got my money back. Takes about 2 weeks total after you call.

There are CC companies that will reject the chargeback. 

If you need help, shoot me a message.  You'll see once people who post get their $ back directly from PayPal.

Psst... you read and responded.

Does anyone else find this sad that this PSA is even necessary.  :-[

Good job though lajz99.

OT: BTW, Bicknellski: had to take down the Barntech reservation thread. Barntech appreciated the offer of help but said it's too soon. He's open to working with me & the others but it's too preliminary to make reservations as far as his next project. Still got the HF/CT bare rig GB project going though and I already have some reservations for whoever steps up for that. Putting this here in case anyone else is wondering where that thread went, eheh; besides, OP ain't reading this thread anyhow.  :D

Neat DZ I will be following those projects our COOP is open to working with other groups see let us know how we can work together. Keen on the DIY / Open Source Hardware / Software stuff particularly. Ya sad that it is necessary. Any efforts to get refunds for people is needed.

Done. I will update the progress.

Alright, now share the process and cut out the middle man.

 :-*

If my CC company did that to me I would immediately close my account and then send a letter to the CC CEO.

I have asked that those I've helped don't share the information publicly so it doesn't get ruined for those who need help in the future and I would hope that will be respected.

I've helped everyone who's asked so far and I'm not charging for the info (although I will accept donations if warranted).  

In that case, I fully support you keeping it a secret except to those that need it and come to you.

Good work, keep it up.

He did help me. 24 hour call back. Instant refund. I helped a couple others respecting the keep only by pm.
Thanks again Lajz99
:)

I Followed procedure. Thanks for the info.
Now i'll wait and see the response and result.

I'll post any progress here.

NO ANSWER TO MY EMAIL
THAT i had sent

Now in Haiku form.

   I sent an e-mail
   I did not get a response
   That makes me angry


or

    I sent an-email
    Using Caps-Lock. So Angry.
    Why won't he help me ?

It took 24 hrs to get my response. It may take longer. They did not respond Via e-mail. Hopefully you included a valid phone number?

How do you prevent BFL sock puppets from spying as client imposters to acquire your secret sauce for refunds?

Well , that suck puppet most likely will be Josh the Criminal

As we know he thinks he is the best guy you can think of in this world and everybody else, and especially his customers are stuppid.

So if the mail does not start with

Hello Stupid, or Dear Stupid it will not be BFL

The only sneaky one at BFL is Jody. But she is to bussy thinking of new ways to try to tell everybody that there shipping at light speed and that the numbers show the have not been shipping japs and little singels dont mean the dont ship masses. We just dont understand the way they publish them and don't changes for days and at the moment weeks.

If you look at blog and search the tags for scam bitch stealing run do not buy you'll find her blog
The first weeks she was to stupid to turn of comments. Now weeks and weeks later see stil has not found a way to turn the option readers cant publish tags, everybody is filling those with how the think of her an BFL.
She must be the bright light at BFL 8p

It wont be possible to do this forever. But, I didnt give info to anyone that did not have post about BFL denying their refund prior to this process.

It is possible that a BFL spam machine has polluted the avenue and it will be closed.


 I would encourage others who have been helped by lajz99 to send a tip to lajz99.

Admittedly, there's not much I can do to ensure the method I'm providing continues to work, however, I can ensure you that your escalation will at least be addressed.  I am doing all I can to ensure those asking for help actually need help and aren't just trying to figure out the process to try to ruin it for everyone.  It does involve PayPal so at any time if they decide enough is enough, that's it.

I've been completely inundated by messages so please be patient as I try to respond to everyone and keep this somewhat organized.  What I'm trying to avoid is angering PayPal to the point where they ignore our requests, it's a fine line.

I got no response (yet)  :(

According to Josh (Inaba), only 1% of their customers are angry or irate.

Considering you were swamped by requests...can we now assume this 1% has doubled or trippled?

lol, I have replied to at LEAST 60 messages.

60 x 100 = 6000

Assuming there are at least 20,000 customers....you are still well within his assertions. (not including everyone with previous refunds to this day)

Anyway,

=====================

I thought this might be helpful to you, but you should create a template where people can plug in the relevant information that you'll need. It should help you read through their messages alot quicker and respond quicker.

(Please keep tabs on how many messages are roughly coming in each day. I want to know (as does the community) how many 1%'s you can possibly respond to. (or for that matter...how many are seeking refunds.)

Donate to this guy folks, he is helping you get your cash back out of a sinkhole. He deserves at least a 1% donation for your recovered funds. Without him you would be squarely at -100%.

Let me be a little more transparent...  I actually don't require any information on my end as this escalation method requires the original purchaser with their PayPal purchase information to reach out, it's just a lot of messages to respond to when they've got a 26 second limit on us.  I'm basically sharing the method that I and 6 others at this point have used to obtain a refund from PayPal via a team that does not have a published escalation path.  I've been sending a somewhat templated response to everyone AFTER I do some due diligence to try to keep the method from being infiltrated and I think it's best for them to submit their request without me providing canned language that makes the request seem less personal. 

Like I've said, I'm not charging to help anyone and I REALLY hope more of you guys can obtain refunds.  I'm more than happy to accept donations if you're able to obtain your $ back but of course it's not required.

I think you're jealous PG and I drank the Kool Aid and lived to tell about it.

Where is PG's report? (He is overdue?)

I prefer a crazy persons report rather than yours....hehe

Last I heard he was kidnapped and ended up in Cleveland... I'm starting to get worried.

+1 Keep helping them get refunds.

This is fine... just ignore BCP thread cleans up nicely.

really need your help
can you tell me what should i do?

Little update: No answer on refund request yet

Fo me also no response / refund.

I'm really hoping the number of requests sent for a single company within such a short time span isn't the issue and they'll still get back to you guys.  If nobody hears anything within the next day or so I'm just going to post the information publicly and maybe THAT increase in volume will encourage them to act.

Fully supporting your decision on this.

Donate to the man!

Wow - got an encouraging response today from Paypal. Impressed... Still no refund yet but at least someone is on the case.

Thanks...

Status update:

I just received a very promising email from somebody that they will do there best and most fullfill the refund.

It is always inspiring and up lifting to see kindness in folks helping others in despair.

Every bit of news of someone getting their money back on this thread makes me smile to no end.

Good luck to all.

When did you send the mail?

Thanks for the new update. I will update the progress. A great tip for you if it works  ;)

Two days ago

@ lajz99

Have you received any threatening emails from BFL or it's employees since helping people out with their refunds?

How do todays contact numbers compare to yesterdays 60+?

No, I have not had anyone from BFL contact me up to this point.

As of today, I've sent somewhere around 75-80 total so it's slowed down a bit.  I've been waking up to a whole slew of messages then it slows down throughout the day.

I've sent this morning an email to request a refund at Paypal and got a promising email later this day.

grtz,
(The Netherlands)

How did today go?

Anyone got any resolutions?

Received an email from BFL, about selling my queue position to another customer on their marketplace.

Just a day after the email to Paypal, hmmm.

still no response / refund

Well count me lucky, I sent request late last nite, no response from Paypal today. But I just got direct refund from BFL so paypal obviously did something :)
THANKS lajz99, paypal, and BFL !

Glad it worked out for you!!

Don't forget to give lajz99 a tip for your 100+% recovery of funds. Anything resembling a tip is appreciated.

THANKS lajz99 and PayPal!

I sent my request this morning thanks to lajz99, and I just got direct refund from BFL!

This is so great, because I have tried everything besides a charge back through my credit card company (my last resort).

Tip coming your way lajz99!

Tip Jar:  0.01BTC

I don't have a refund dog in this fight but hey worth a little support right? Great work Lajz99... keep helping out the community!

Usually Paypal wants to talk to you. Probably not all cases but this makes me wonder if the DA is
taking action.  When I saw the AG's letter

http://imgur.com/pw2YIGW

I did not think it would really go anywhere. And maybe it has not.

Just received my refund  ;D

Thank you!!!!!

Status update: Just refunded

I will send email to paypal too tomorrow for refund.

Got an email from Paypal that they are going to refund!

Thanks Lajz99, Paypal and BFL.

 I feel this is a lucrative bussiness deal.

 Help people get their money back , recieve a cut. Heck even bfl could get into this :D

Nothing of the sort. Lajz99 is helping without taking a cut.

Thanks again Lajz99!

Don't forget to offer a tip!

fuck yes it worked. Lazj99, please find your tip in the bucket!

*mumbles something about doing good things and stuff*

 Cheers.

Status: 0/unconfirmed, broadcast through 7 nodes
Date: 9/14/13 16:31
To: Bitcointalk Forums: lajz99 BFL PayPal Refund Brokering appreciation tip 1GBKA4yyLtcHMtBuDyDxEufiDnR1YpB254
Debit: -0.10 BTC
Transaction fee: -0.001 BTC
Net amount: -0.101 BTC
Transaction ID: 4a2cbb336eba0b39350f1e1aa80a0579fe235321b1171f3dd3091f5998dd3275

Man, I just got back from a 66 mile bike ride and couldn't be more excited to see how many of you have received refunds!

For all of you who have sent a tip THANK YOU!  It's appreciated!

If you've sent me a message today I'll reply to you tonight!

I sent Email this morning and I got refund from Paypal.
Thank Lajz99 and tip is coming.

This really works, I just got a refund for my order.
Thank you lajz99 so very much!

I sent an email this morning (per help from lajz99) and I received an email reply about an hour ago letting me know the refund was being processed.  Paypal shows the money being credited back on its end but the other end (credit issuer) doesn't show it yet.

lajz99 - thank you for your help!  Tip coming your way once the refund / credit shows on the other end . . . .

Thanks for providing this service to the community, lajz99! Send the tips, guys!

I would Like to say That this method worked for me to get a refund from october!!! in only 2 days
THANKS lajz99 and PayPal!

This thread makes me  ;D (one of the few in this forum).

I'm so glad I'm able to help so many of you out!  For now, I'm going to continue sending information privately via PM rather than posting like I thought I might.  It seems to be working for people so lets keep it going!  (I'll save my rant on BFL for when everyone who needs help has been helped)

We salute you sir! Good work.

I wanna know the method. I wont post it publicly and will give a tip for the information. I cant imagine it is something I dont already know, but am curious. I have been buying and selling for paypal for a year now and if there is a charge back method I dont know of then it is worth a bit for me to find out.
Thanks

I'm wondering if it involves using the telephone, i lost my voice recently. I think it is vacationing in Bermuda. ::)

"Alms for the poor!"

That one made some of my adult beverage come out of my nose when I read it!

Great work!

Funnier'n Hell!

:)

I just got mail respond from paypal that they already process the refund. And don't worry i didn't give any phone number.
Many thanks lajz99, you really help community. I will send tip as my thanks  :)


Edit: Just send tips
       Transaction ID: ad8ba550f03c1be662b4f3e4c03fc715e3d3de88026a514ca9168eda86210f90

heh, glad you liked it. Somebody took exception to it the other day. they were being literal. Besides, some people in NYC make over $50,000.00 a year begging for change, so how does one define poor. personally, i had the scene from Fiddler on the Roof in mind when i put it in.

Why rant when you can help?

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmn8u5gLr41qhpaaeo1_500.gif

1GBKA4yyLtcHMtBuDyDxEufiDnR1YpB254
 Today 23:41:17 Unconfirmed Transaction!
-0.0105 BTC


Not much but neither was the information. But probably pretty valuable to people with bfl issues

I am thinking of letting my beard grow, dressing up in raggedy old blue jeans, a worn out field jacket, mismatched shoes, not bathing for a week and parking my then broken-down looking butt on a major intersection in Kansas City, Missouri with a sign begging for $!

Maybe I could make back the USD $25K that I have tied up in this BFL bs!

By the way, what does it mean; this fiddler on the roof who fiddles every night and fiddles every noon?

l'chaim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

;)

lajz99:  I sent something to your Cryptsy.  My tradekey is 80f68e261a697f2f3ff994e81a08ddfe6a6ff0f8 .  It represents 1% of my order that was refunded by Paypal.  Thanks!

 
 He may not be doing it for the money , but he is hiding the how it is done?

 This only suggest  ' I help you , you help me' type of deal. Put it openly and anyone can do it, if tipped great if not than its free. I was never too naive to order from bfl so I have no dog in this fight but making money off refunds looks like a good way of scamming the gullable.

They might close the door if they get flooded, so it's better not to publicize the method.  Mentioning the tip here is just a way of expressing disgust for the seller.

I'm not hiding anything I'm just not posting it publicly and vetting out who I provide the information to so we ensure additional people who want refunds can obtain one going forward.

I also am not charging anyone for the information I've been providing and there are quite a few people who have obtained refunds and have not donated and all will tell you I'm not asking for anything. 

Thanks for your input, but you must not understand how a scam works.  The only one winning here is those who get their money back from the ripoff that is BFL.  Whether people want to tip me for helping them to get their $ back is up to them.  Move on.

Glad to hear you got your refund!  I hope to hear of more tomorrow (although it is the weekend).

I could be wrong but I believe I was the first to send a tip to him for helping me with this back in August. He did not ask for anyting at all. I think I was the one that was encouraging people to tip him at first. Puerto Libre has driven it home. Anyone that I have helped I have also directed them to tip him, not me. He started this avenue, and if in their hearts people feel like giving back, whats the harm?

Regards,

 No no , you guys do not understand me , I am not saying he is doing it in return of the cash , I am saying he forces the hand. It is like 'if I go to dominos and buy a pizza and bring it home , I am not paying a tip at there , but if dominos brings me the pizza with delivery , I pay the guy a tip for bringing , I dont have to , but I usually do '

 Thats the case here , I am not starting a hate deal here , it was just a mere observation , I still dont understand the reason of not publicly putting it out there , the reasons given sounds to weak to be real. I think 'how to' part should be an infographic out on the internet , and it is weird how noone published how they have done it so far respecting OP's request, gratz.

Since only one person has an issue with sending a PM to get the information that is how I am going to proceed.  No payment or tip required, I'm simply providing information on how I and others got a refund and that's all there is to it.

Whether you appreciate what I'm doing or not is up to you, end of story.  I will not be replying to posts like this in the future as there is no need for it.  The information is not being posted publicly and everyone seems to understand why, if you don't, oh well.

 Well thats a nice approach of 'I did it my way , I dont care if you like it or not' :D

 I was merely considering doing an infographic on it to help further the cause but if you insist it is a 'trade secret' for people to get their money back , thats your own selfishness I cant comment on that.

Another reason for not making the method public is that it could quickly zero out the seller's Paypal wallet, and no further reversals could be made.  Not everyone can go the chargeback route because it's over 90 days.

If you make an infographic about it and it doesn't work (because either Paypal closes the door, or the wallet empties), people will blame you.

 I did not mention something for individual differences , If this method consist of 'if it says xx do xx' type of different approaches , it is impossible for me to do it , than by all means go on , but if everyone is doing the same thing , than it is nothing to be paypal to lock it since its already being done over and over again already and an infographic is nothign to be afraid of.

 To people who say 'if this is public a lot of people will ask for a refund and paypal or bfl may close the door' , well what is there a limit? Is OP helping certain amount of people daily? What if 3000 people come here and ask for help? I bet you he will help everyone , so this is just to make his life easier then dealing everyone personally.

Excuse me but to be honest OP has absolutely no obligation to ANYONE to make public ANY information he has.  He is also under no obligation to help anyone publicly or privately. The OP has clearly stated his reasons for sending out information in this way and has also said he may make it public info if/when HE feels it's appropriate.  He doesn't appear to be collecting personal information on people, he has not demanded nor has he even asked for money.  He has also kindly given his own free time to vet and reply to personal messages.  Not a single post complaining about him so far and yet many posts thanking him after they received promising email or actual refunds, this speaks volumes IMO.

I firmly believe that the OP's goal is to help as many victims as he can and believes this is the best way to help as many people as possible so as a community we should do all we can to support it.  He may be wrong but it's not our decision it's HIS so lets help him out anyway we can.  I also think its fair to assume he has evaluated the public vs private methodology and has made a decision on which he feels is better so I certainly will respect the mans decision unless/until something changes.  His method works and the proof is in the thread if someone feels enough gratitude to send a gift then good for them he has every right to graciously accept it and move on.

To the OP, as a member of the BTC community I thank you for helping people out.

Disclaimer, I have no dog in this fight I have never ordered from BFL nor have I ever pre-ordered nor do I own an ASIC mining device.

I agree.  If the OP were to publicize his methodology, it is likely that information could then be used to prevent it from working any longer. 

The only concern I would have is honesty.  Myself, and a lot of people like me, placed an order for a piece of equipment that is faster and cheaper to run than the equipment I currently own.  I am perfectly content to wait for my order knowing it to be what I ordered.  While I am not saying ALL of the people clamoring for refunds are dishonest, I do feel that the true reason behind a majority of these requests is "Cause my money making machine won't make as much as it cost".  Try using that on Paypal and I'd bet you'd hear laughter followed by <click>.

If you truly are upset over the wait or the perceived customer service, then by all means, you should take advantage of this.  If you are upset cause your dreams of getting rich aren't coming true, maybe you need to rethink your course in life.  Investing in Bitcoin mining equipment is a lot like investing in stocks.  If you are lucky enough to get in early, you could profit big time.  But there are no guarantees.  The Winklevoss twins may decide tomorrow their investment strategy with BTC was a failure and dump their entire holdings and BTC would plummet to $30.  Conversely, Donald Trump may decide this is a good investment and the price could hit $1000 or more.

Face it, the majority of people demanding refunds have treated mining equipment like a get rich quick scheme and now that their bubble has burst, they want their money back.  The current rise in difficulty and the projected rise in the upcoming months clearly shows that nothing will remain profitable for long, yet more and more orders are being made.  What do these people who are ordering thousands upon thousands of units and are content to await thier product know that the rest of us don't?

Food for thought.

Paypal polices state delivery must be within 20 days of receiving payment. Name one customer that has received their BFL SC unit within the required 20 days.


Spoiled food. I don't care why someone buys something. If it isn't delivered as promised, when promised, then that person is well within their rights to request a refund. The law agrees with me.

I just don't see how BFL can get away with basically holding people's money hostage. If this happened in my industry, I sell huge parts for steel mills that take 52+ weeks to make, I would be black balled permanently. If one of my customers requested an update on a product, I would give them everything I know. If I knew their product was stuck on a machine and needed extra machining time, I would tell my customer that. No need for subterfuge or name calling. BFL is in the business of making money, but to treat your customer base like a bunch of children when they complain about insane delivery times is outlandish. My success in my industry is based on the relationships I make with my customers. BFL has done nothing but alienate and infuriate their customer base to the point that after the back log is cleared I hope they shut their doors. So, it basically boils down to: Give me what I paid for and shut the fuck up.

Lazj99 is just regulating the flow of refunds so that the methods remain effective.

In essence, he is a regulating valve on the spigot of returns.

Too many and the refund window may explode. Just let him be, if people give him some big tips for a 100% recovery of their funds then no one is harmed in the process.

His method is sound in regulating the number of refunds arriving at PayPals desk. Hes probably getting 50 to 100 folks per day. It will be a while before the flood turns into a trickle.

Someone with a valid account should go to BFL forums and let people know about the refund opportunity that Lazj99 offers.

Exactly!

Gotta keep Josh and Sonny delivering the 100 to 250k per day at the bank. It's good exercise.

As much as I'd like to help out as many as possible lets not post in BFL forums to avoid drawing their attention.

Using your scenario, 99.99% of all orders should have already been refunded.  I wonder why all those people haven't asked for a refund?

*I* do care why they bought it, cause for over a year people were quiet and now all of a sudden they are not.  You claim 20 days.  Ok, 20 days passed, no refund request.  100 days passed, no refund request.  200 days passed, no refund request.  300 days passed, no refund request.  Profitability goes into the toilet, REFUND ME!!!!!!!!!!!

It works. Thanks a lot.
1 LTC tip sent. tx id 71efac443127caa660539010feae9aa1762524b7ad60654b1c6a24df8c457965

You are asking the wrong question.  The correct question isn't why they bought but why they are refunding.  In my case, the refund doesn't have to do with profitability but fear of total loss due to bankruptcy of BFL.  BFL hasn't been jalp or LS for some weeks and now they have disabled the weekly comments.  They are also moderating like nazi's in their forum and have multiple members of management with a criminal background (which I learned sometime after I ordered).

On top of that they are refusing refunds and seem to be shipping out of order to avoid the charge backs.  The out of order shipping has yet to be proven but leads me to believe that financial difficulties are hitting BFL hard.  On top of all of this, they are likely to be shipping out raw chips before even completing shipping of all 2012 orders.

This wasn't the case when I ordered, so it is the changes at BFL that caused my charge back - not the rising difficulty.

It's estimated BFL has 3PH in orders (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=283820.0).  That would be 2000 minirigs or $59.8million dollars using their lowest cost ratio unit.  I think your bankruptcy fears are groundless.

Either BFL ran out of parts or they are going bankrupt. Either way they lost a bunch of customers for life. Nobody in their right mind will ever pre-order from them again.

Yeah, you'd think, huh?

Many reasons. One is BFL is lying to them telling them they cannot receive a refund.


http://cdn.meme.li/i/k0wwu.jpg

Well, the law doesn't care. BFL failed to deliver, and customers are being illegally denied refunds. Why they request a refund is irrelevant. Feel free to read over the regulations.

http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus02-business-guide-mail-and-telephone-order-merchandise-rule

No where does it specify the customers thoughts to be a reason against refunds. Why do you want so badly to be the thought police here?

Folks, this is a refund request thread. OP has made it pretty clear he doesn't care too much about the reasons only that he can give people a way out via a refund.

So lets save the drama about whether people deserve a refund or not for some other thread.

I invite you all to come to the " BFL fucks us again" thread. thanks.

Yup, I can see it now.

"Hello, I'd like to get a refund on an order that I never received"
"How long ago did you place the order?"
"About a year ago."
"Why did it take you so long to request a refund?"
"Well, I thought it was a good deal for the first 320 days, but in the last 40 days I changed my mind"
"....<click>"

You can't tell the truth or you'd never get a refund.  So what you are saying, is that it is OK to commit fraud just to get a refund.

FTFY.

^ This is almost exactly what happened with OP's method and in less than 12 hours via email on a Saturday might I add.

Thanks. I did what you said this past Monday and on Friday I had a full refund back in my PayPal account.

Works! A+

This thread has gone hopeless OT. /Locked. (I've asked the OP to start a self moderated thread if he is still helping people with this)