Bitcoin Forum

Bitcoin => Bitcoin Discussion => Topic started by: toresto on February 16, 2018, 11:17:09 AM



Title: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: toresto on February 16, 2018, 11:17:09 AM
I in the crypto world since 2011-2012
and for me as a tech guy more interest in the blockchain technology a special when Namecoin
was released and actually utilized the blockchain for DNS chain, from that point it changes the way
I look at bitcoin and truly understood the power of Blockchain and Cryptocurrency and the future of Bitcoin as currency
and not only investing without understanding what are the benefits and how and why
this sweet digital currency set out to change global finance and the world.


 I think people that in bitcoin after 2016-2017 and maybe 2015 will not understand this post they
look at bitcoin as an only investment and nothing more.
 just started with bitcoin and another crypto because they how the price jumped out and how you can turn "500$ to 4M"youtube videos.
and the tv and media that talked about that.

and people like me before the ICO's and SMART CONTRACTS
and all the exchanges look differently at bitcoin.

we believed that in the futures more bitcoin jobs and people will get paid in bitcoin
and you able to travel around to world with one currency
and pay in local shops

and why did we belived in that?

bitcoin at that time wasn't real for most of the people and the only way to accept
something as a payment or is to put some trust to this
without it, bitcoin is just software on a computer

remember that time most of the people

"what is bitcoin"


so with that believes with time people were willing to accept bitcoin
and invest in this "future money"


for us, bitcoin is  "Bitcoin is peer to peer payment network digital currency "
that will change global finance and the world.

and we going to be part of this huge thing(it's not only about money and investment that time more important was to raise the awareness about bitcoin)

but do bitcoin really doing this in 2018?
are people really using this as currency
are more and more local shops accepting bitcoin(physical store not over the internet)
do we get more job places and people got paid with bitcoins?
do new people look at bitcoin that way or only as a momentum to invest, and make 500$ to 4M?

and this is few of the things we believed at that time

no taxes
since no regulation, it's a coin for the people and minted by the people

failed: more and more countries trying to control and regulate Bitcoin and implement taxes since nowadays you mostly buy bitcoin and not
mining using your pc, we had only 2 options
mine it or
Damn you Mt.gox
and no taxes because of bitcoin was mined by us the people and no ASIC  that time

and bitcoin for the government wasn't real
and it wasn't an investment but some "idiots solving mats stuff with their computer" and as a reward getting some
"crypto Coins" that have no real use and not real money!
it's only in past serval years they change their mind
I talking about 2011-2012, not 2018!

I am not talking about a tax for buying a product with bitcoin but for buying bitcoin, back their how can you pay tax for bitcoin if you mined it with your computer
now you can't you go to exchange and must pay taxes for something that several years ago:

"what is bitcoin"
"it's not real why should I accept it"

fast and instant
you can send even small amount as 1$ instantly to anyone in the world and pay a super ridiculous low fee

failed:

new or average bitcoin user who is holding a few dollars can’t actually use bitcoin as money because the fee is higher than the money they’re holding. (we talking about few dollars not thousands)
if you received your 1 dollar with 100 of small transaction you will pay for the bytes and most likely it will cost you more.


more and more local shops accepting bitcoin

I remember  the first coffee shop in my town accepted bitcoin as
a payment that was for me like buying something for the first time with
my own money, felt like this is the moment all bitcoin
users was waited for

more and more people using bitcoin for daily use in real life
as more shops  accepting bitcoin more users start using them

failed: as the bitcoin network became heavy
and the price of bitcoin went super crazy up
fewer people actually using Bitcoin in daily life
and holding it as casino chip waiting to cash out
as a result of this fewer shops accepting bitcoin
because no one uses them but just holding as an
Investment.

and besides who wants to accept currency
when you just want to buy a coffee and wait
30 minutes to 2 weeks for a transaction
approved depending how much fee you paid

sure if you buying a car you willing to wait 2 days or even weeks
but not when you buying a Fre@king coffee.


Bitcoin is not that fast anymore every one waiting in a queue and competing with a transaction fee
to be the first to validated and there is tons of other that waiting exactly like you.


North American Bitcoin Conference (TNABC) 2018, bitcoin announced they have stopped accepting bitcoin payments for conference tickets due to network fees and congestion.
https://news.bitcoin.com/miami-bitcoin-conference-stops-accepting-bitcoin-due-to-fees-and-congestion/

and the most important of all

One World, One Currency
The supply and minting of a global currency not regulated by a central banking but decentralized,
no age sex or geolocation discrimination Currency for the world people and   minted by the world  people,

it's supposed to be world currency you could travel anywhere on in the world and buy in local shops
and not only over the net.

imagine a world where you can go to your shopping mall and buy an ice cream or ticket to the movie
and then go out with your girlfriend to eat in a restaurant.


Big Epic Failed: do you understand that people no more creating(mining)
this Currency unless you got sh**load of money to buy your self ASIC, and honestly I will not be surprised if we find out that huge corporation  or even some countries owning the majority of huge "ming farms"



So people not using bitcoin the way it should be only as "casino chips"
and this the manly problem with ICO'S scam and any other investment in cryptocurrency.



but there is always a bright side:

with the time Light Network
 going to speed things up, lower the fee's, and  more shops will get back to accepted bitcoin as payment
and maybe in the future, we really going to see more job places that pay their workers with bitcoin.

 but it doesn't solve the problem that people just holding their bitcoins, as "casino chips" and in the right moment cash out.


instead to understand what is actually bitcoin, and how can you use it for your daily life, and of course why.


Bitcoin is blockchain technology that created to be decentralized for to all people around the world and to use &  utilized for their needs to serve a specific  purpose.

And Bitcoin is a  "peer 2 peer payment network" and not only "peer 2 peer Crypto Stock Exchange  network"

and that  applies to all cryptocurrencies
 



Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: 1Referee on February 16, 2018, 11:41:53 AM
You seem to ignore the developments going on with Lightning Network. The number of available nodes and open channels is increasing significantly, and that in this early 'test' stage already. If you aren't convinced, you could even try it for yourself to see how badass LN already is, and you'll understand how that will transform Bitcoin into a mainstream adoption magnet. If you aren't open to see the value in off-chain scaling, you'll never see the value in anything, and just remain acting bitter like you're doing right now. I can agree that LN won't directly make people spend their coins like there is no tomorrow, but it at least will give them the incentive they need - the fees and confirmation times won't form an obstacle anymore. The only thing left at this point is the mentality of the people that needs to change when it comes to spending their coins. It won't be easy to convince someone to spend his coins when the same coins will likely increase in value significantly later on. You can't blame people for that, but at the same time can't blame Bitcoin for that.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: jseverson on February 16, 2018, 11:49:09 AM
It doesn't look like you've transacted with Bitcoin lately. I'd be surprised if you have to spend even 50 cents. Unless you're on an exchange of course, in which case it's hardly the network's fault.

Other than that, it's cool. We all have different reasons for believing, and if you feel Bitcoin is no longer that, then by all means make your exit. I still believe in Bitcoin as a currency. It's still in its infancy as far as the technology goes, and improvements like the Lightning Network are going to make it more and more viable.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: toresto on February 16, 2018, 11:53:46 AM
even with Lightning Network people holding their coins and not really using them.

so Crypto  became trade market and not currency

if people not looking at bitcoin as currency in real life, we kinda losing the whole point of bitcoin here


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: bug.lady on February 16, 2018, 11:57:21 AM
Your points are valid but I wouldn't picture them as fails, rather as concerns, the concerns that I too share, there is no doubt about it.

In 2008 I worked for this small internet startup streaming music online. I thought I was experienced and I joked with friends, that it is never ever going to be possible to stream good quality video, because even with our music people were unable to listen due to slow connection everybody had at that time. Look what happened: infrastracture changed, software solutions changed, high compression was used, and now you can easily stream high quality 2 hour long movie!

The same will happen to bitcoin. Just give it time!

At least I hope so.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: toresto on February 16, 2018, 12:02:03 PM
Your points are valid but I wouldn't picture them as fails, rather as concerns, the concerns that I too share, there is no doubt about it.

In 2008 I worked for this small internet startup streaming music online. I thought I was experienced and I joked with friends, that it is never ever going to be possible to stream good quality video, because even with our music people were unable to listen due to slow connection everybody had at that time. Look what happened: infrastracture changed, software solutions changed, high compression was used, and now you can easily stream high quality 2 hour long movie!

The same will happen to bitcoin. Just give it time!

At least I hope so.

I still hoping I just look at all the people that falling into ICO'S scam. and how they thread Cryptocurrency, only as a way to invest  and nothing more than that sure there are people that more educated about that and
thread crypto differently but the majority made crypto as "investment gratuity" and not seeing it as the world currency.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: zenrol28 on February 16, 2018, 12:03:46 PM
As bitcoin grows, so are the problems too. And we usually see the failures first rather than being inspired where bitcoin is now. Why not look at the bright side? If you don't want taxes then go where there no governments which is where is that? If you want fast and instant transactions then make it person to person, go send a dollar to someone who is in the other side of the world, buy a ticket and fly over to give him/her your dollar. Was that fast? NO. How much will it cost to give the dollar? hell so much.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: drakegon on February 16, 2018, 12:08:21 PM
Don't be so negative about it. Bitcoin has put it's mark on the world. Look at us now, the only reasons we can talk about cryptocurrencies and a big change in the worlds financial system it's owed to Bitcoin.
It may not become the only crypto currency of the world, it may not have a low fees or fast transactions speed (for now), but it got us this far.
We are here, and we can hope for a better world in the future because of Bitcoin.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: toresto on February 16, 2018, 12:09:05 PM
It doesn't look like you've transacted with Bitcoin lately. I'd be surprised if you have to spend even 50 cents.

off course if to send 50 cents I need to pay a fee of 3$, and even with LN you still waiting for alot till your transactions will
approved


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: toresto on February 16, 2018, 12:12:17 PM
Don't be so negative about it. Bitcoin has put it's mark on the world. Look at us now, the only reasons we can talk about cryptocurrencies and a big change in the worlds financial system it's owed to Bitcoin.
It may not become the only crypto currency of the world, it may not have a low fees or fast transactions speed (for now), but it got us this far.
We are here, and we can hope for a better world in the future because of Bitcoin.

I not negative about bitcoin I frustrated how and what people made from it


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: hannezorf on February 16, 2018, 12:13:31 PM
you guys really think that lightning is going to make it better in terms of costs and speed? Sounds like it get's more wired somehow.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: Red-Apple on February 16, 2018, 12:16:53 PM
no taxes
this has never been a part of bitcoin although it is indirectly achieved. and it has not failed. bitcoin is still the same decentralized currency and if you use it as such there is no taxes. but when you treat it as an investment to make money then you also have to pay taxes on that money you made.

Quote
fast and instant
it is still fast and instant to send bitcoin. nothing has changed.
you are confusing high fees with speed. but they are two different things and you are right fees should not be high, i can agree that bitcoin has failed on that front thanks to a certain group of people and their fights.

Quote
more and more local shops accepting bitcoin
more and more people using bitcoin for daily use in real life
failed:
bullshit.
if anything this has grown a LOT in the past year alone. right now BitPay is reporting $110 million dollar monthly payments only through their service.
then look at Japan and the millions of merchants that started accepting bitcoin last year alone thanks to tax free bitcoin payments.

Quote
One World, One Currency
Big Epic Failed: do you understand that people no more creating(mining)
more bullshit.
first of all one world one currency doesn't even make sense.
second who do you think these miners are? aliens? there are thousands of people around the world who bought 1 or a couple of ASICs and are mining bitcoin with it. you can do it if you want too.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: toresto on February 16, 2018, 12:25:14 PM
no taxes
this has never been a part of bitcoin although it is indirectly achieved. and it has not failed. bitcoin is still the same decentralized currency and if you use it as such there is no taxes. but when you treat it as an investment to make money then you also have to pay taxes on that money you made.

Quote
fast and instant
it is still fast and instant to send bitcoin. nothing has changed.
you are confusing high fees with speed. but they are two different things and you are right fees should not be high, i can agree that bitcoin has failed on that front thanks to a certain group of people and their fights.

Quote
more and more local shops accepting bitcoin
more and more people using bitcoin for daily use in real life
failed:
bullshit.
if anything this has grown a LOT in the past year alone. right now BitPay is reporting $110 million dollar monthly payments only through their service.
then look at Japan and the millions of merchants that started accepting bitcoin last year alone thanks to tax free bitcoin payments.

Quote
One World, One Currency
Big Epic Failed: do you understand that people no more creating(mining)
more bullshit.
first of all one world one currency doesn't even make sense.
second who do you think these miners are? aliens? there are thousands of people around the world who bought 1 or a couple of ASICs and are mining bitcoin with it. you can do it if you want too.

No taxes
we mined bitcoin with our pc before ASIC! so no taxes

and less physical shops accept bitcoin and that is a fact, not online store.
and many  of the online shops are scammers
you can't go to   shopping mall  and buy ice cream with bitcoin

in 2010 that was the idea


and bitcoin is not fast anymore every one waiting in a queue and competing with a transaction fee
to be the first to validated and there is tons of other that waiting exactly like you.

it's supposed to be world currency you could travel anywhere on in the world and buy in local shops
and not only over the net.





Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: Red-Apple on February 16, 2018, 12:41:08 PM
we mined bitcoin with our pc before ASIC!
that is how PoW and because of it bitcoin works. with more adoption more people started mining, difficulty went up, new hardware called ASIC was produced to mine it and made things harder to mine with GPU/CPU.
that is the design from day 1!

Quote
and less physical shops accept bitcoin and that is a fact, not online store.
that is your guess not a fact.

Quote
you can't go to   shopping mall  and buy ice cream with bitcoin
in 2010 that was the idea
no it never was.
the idea was to create a "peer to peer digital cash". in other words a decentralized payment system that is resistant to any kind of censorship. and bitcoin still has that going.

as i said above the only thing that is changed is the fees and hopefully that won't last long either.

Quote
and bitcoin is not fast anymore every one waiting in a queue and competing with a transaction fee
to be the first to validated and there is tons of other that waiting exactly like you.
that is also by design.
the fees went up too high to an unacceptable levels because the adoption grew while we didn't have any block size increase and nobody was using the capacity increase solution which is SegWit.
but as i said above this is hopefully going to be over soon as the SegWit adoption grows more and also eventually with second layer solution which is the only way to move forward.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: marjil on February 16, 2018, 12:43:55 PM
It's fascinating to see that we have an OP who has raised some very important concerns on the very essense of bitcoin only for some other forum members to come along and shoot him down without even providing any real counter arguments. Just shows what lack of understanding there is.

Isn't it true that bitcoin has become more a store of wealth than a currency that it was intended for? If you don't appreciate this then you are not living in the real world. It doesn't mean bitcoin does not have a use or that it does not have value, it just means the use of bitcoin has changed. Some people just don't want to understand.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: toresto on February 16, 2018, 12:44:08 PM
we mined bitcoin with our pc before ASIC!
that is how PoW and because of it bitcoin works. with more adoption more people started mining, difficulty went up, new hardware called ASIC was produced to mine it and made things harder to mine with GPU/CPU.
that is the design from day 1!

Quote
and less physical shops accept bitcoin and that is a fact, not online store.
that is your guess not a fact.

Quote
you can't go to   shopping mall  and buy ice cream with bitcoin
in 2010 that was the idea
no it never was.
the idea was to create a "peer to peer digital cash". in other words a decentralized payment system that is resistant to any kind of censorship. and bitcoin still has that going.

as i said above the only thing that is changed is the fees and hopefully that won't last long either.

Quote
and bitcoin is not fast anymore every one waiting in a queue and competing with a transaction fee
to be the first to validated and there is tons of other that waiting exactly like you.
that is also by design.
the fees went up too high to an unacceptable levels because the adoption grew while we didn't have any block size increase and nobody was using the capacity increase solution which is SegWit.
but as i said above this is hopefully going to be over soon as the SegWit adoption grows more and also eventually with second layer solution which is the only way to move forward.



the point is people not looking at bitcoin as MONEY!!! but only a way to invest!


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: biboy on February 16, 2018, 12:44:50 PM
Main reason why you get used into bitcoin, because you want to invest for you to get rich and believing that everything is good and normal.

Well, we don't blame people for not believing in it, they maybe not the type of person who are being skeptical of it as an investment since no one knows what will happen in the future, no guarantees and no assurance so they are just being conservative with their money.

But for me, you are losing some part of your life since you are failing to explore things out, you are too lazy to see whats in it and why a lot of people are believing it and why some are becoming rich right? Its really difficult for a lot of people to see the advantage of it, it took time but when we really want to change our way of life they we need to invest at least some of our time.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: toresto on February 16, 2018, 12:48:05 PM
it just means the use of bitcoin has changed. Some people just don't want to understand.

this exactly what I trying to say,

if people continue thread crypto as an investment and not "peer 2 peer cash" or money
we losing the whole point here and with time more and more people doing this!

in 2012 the only question that people asked me was
"what is bitcoin?"

today only one:

"should I invest or not?"


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: Yesolo on February 16, 2018, 01:19:54 PM
I didn't believe in Bitcoin as a global currency and I do not. Why? Because each time you are buying an ice-cream the merchant MUST pay taxes. Because we are still living in a world splited by countries with thier own politics, economy, interests and so on. And if a government doesn't control the currency used in its country that means that there is no government in this country.

And yes, I think that Bitcoin is a perfect investment... for the next couple of years ;)


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: swissgang on February 16, 2018, 01:26:02 PM
I don't believe in as a digital cash but I believe in as a store of value, it is actually not a store of value, but you may use it as a store of value. But it will not fail because of other tokens' stupidity.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: bug.lady on February 16, 2018, 01:26:22 PM
Your points are valid but I wouldn't picture them as fails, rather as concerns, the concerns that I too share, there is no doubt about it.

In 2008 I worked for this small internet startup streaming music online. I thought I was experienced and I joked with friends, that it is never ever going to be possible to stream good quality video, because even with our music people were unable to listen due to slow connection everybody had at that time. Look what happened: infrastracture changed, software solutions changed, high compression was used, and now you can easily stream high quality 2 hour long movie!

The same will happen to bitcoin. Just give it time!

At least I hope so.

I still hoping I just look at all the people that falling into ICO'S scam. and how they thread Cryptocurrency, only as a way to invest  and nothing more than that sure there are people that more educated about that and
thread crypto differently but the majority made crypto as "investment gratuity" and not seeing it as the world currency.

that is true, and I agree that in 2015 hopes were very high for bitcoin to be used to pay for services, and that it is currently harder than ever before (fees are radiculuos, maybe not at this particular moment, but a month ago they were like 20 USD fee). My point is that it is too early to say that bitcoin failed. I still believe that with the introduction of new technologies and infrastructure what is currently seen as impossible will be possible and even easy in the future: fee level will drop to fractions of cents... It will require bitcoin to adapt, and lack of that adaptation and lack of will to adapt is the main danger I am seeing at present.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: Vendetta666 on February 16, 2018, 01:42:36 PM
So maybe someone who does not believe in bitcoin because they do not know how to earn it or they're scams already and have lost the bitcoin they earned. Actually, if he learns how to earn a bitcoin he will definitely love it and it will be very happy he will always be playing bitcoin.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: felipe04 on February 16, 2018, 01:50:32 PM
This topic is from veterans like you OP but base on your post i think you experience bad in crypto and it turn you to not believe anymore in digital currency but the best for you to do or to see what can bitcoin brings to you and not the bad things here in crypto,I also experience not really well in my investing here but i still continue in crypto because even we can lose here the chance to earn is really big so i think there's no need for negative and think positive always like start where you can earn here.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: toresto on February 16, 2018, 01:52:29 PM
not a tax for ice cream but for buying bitcoin, back their how can you pay tax for bitcoin if you mined it with your computer


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: dothebeats on February 16, 2018, 01:53:15 PM
Where have you been lately when bitcoin fees dropped significantly? Also, are you even aware about the on-going developments on LN? If you aren't then I do know where you're coming from thinking that the developments about bitcoin are stagnant and no such improvements are being made in the network. If you fail to understand that development takes time and resources, then you fail to see the good things behind some setbacks and that means bitcoin is not for you. I've invested so much into crypto, burned a few times but still kept on investing and here I am, making more money than what I do in my day job.

No taxes
we mined bitcoin with our pc before ASIC! so no taxes

and less physical shops accept bitcoin and that is a fact, not online store.
and many  of the online shops are scammers
you can't go to   shopping mall  and buy ice cream with bitcoin

in 2010 that was the idea


and bitcoin is not fast anymore every one waiting in a queue and competing with a transaction fee
to be the first to validated and there is tons of other that waiting exactly like you.

it's supposed to be world currency you could travel anywhere on in the world and buy in local shops
and not only over the net.

So I guess you are just one of those people who demand a lot on something yet haven't contributed even a single thing to make matters easier.

Even if you mined your bitcoin with your own PC before and you gained something from it, it is still subject to taxes no matter how you look at it though it is still highly dependent on your government whether they will tax bitcoin or not. Also, it is not bitcoin's fault to have less merchants going in with the bitcoin train; it is their decision not to meddle with bitcoin and integrate it in their business.

Again, have you tried to send bitcoins lately? The fees have dropped significantly and confirmation times became faster compared to the previous months.

And no, bitcoin isn't meant to be a world currency; it can be used across borders, yes, but there's no way that BTC is supposed to replace the world's leading currency, only exist side-by-side with them.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: hadveach on February 16, 2018, 02:00:32 PM
Don't be so negative about it. Bitcoin has put it's mark on the world. Look at us now, the only reasons we can talk about cryptocurrencies and a big change in the worlds financial system it's owed to Bitcoin.
It may not become the only crypto currency of the world, it may not have a low fees or fast transactions speed (for now), but it got us this far.
We are here, and we can hope for a better world in the future because of Bitcoin.
Yes, I agree with you, that we are here because of the condition of bitcoin, altcoin becomes stable due to bitcoin, stable market conditions due to bitcoin. because bitcoin regulates altcoin and the market.

so in my opinion, it is not good if we think negative about bitcoin. Bitcoin has helped our economy. I realize that bitcoin has its drawbacks, but positive thinking will eliminate the weakness of the bitcon.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: Wahyu aep on February 16, 2018, 02:02:38 PM
all have different reasons to believe, and if you feel Bitcoin is no longer so, then by all means make your way out. I still believe in Bitcoin as a currency. It's still in its early stages as far as technology goes, and improvements like Lightning Network will I still trust in Bitcoin as a currency. It's still in its early stages as far as technology goes, and improvements like Lightning Network will make it more and more feasible.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: bitfocus on February 16, 2018, 02:03:01 PM
ok, you might have some reason, but I also have my reasons to believe in Bitcoin and the blockchain.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: alyssa85 on February 16, 2018, 02:07:45 PM
even with Lightning Network people holding their coins and not really using them.

so Crypto  became trade market and not currency

if people not looking at bitcoin as currency in real life, we kinda losing the whole point of bitcoin here

Part of the problem is the limited supply. When a currency is deflationary, people hoard it, they don't spend.

I'm pretty sure another cryptocurrency will end up being the one used everywhere, while bitcoin will be digital gold.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: toresto on February 16, 2018, 02:08:10 PM
ok, you might have some reason, but I also have my reasons to believe in Bitcoin and the blockchain.

i believe in the blockchain technology without any doubt a specially when Namecoin was just launched and was
really doing something useful with blockchain besides money, the DNS chain really changed my thinking about the blockchain


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: spiker777 on February 16, 2018, 02:15:00 PM
To address two of your major points, fees and adoption.

We have known that Bitcoin has a limited number of transactions it can handle per second, which is why there have been numerous forks claiming to solve the issue, and even the segwit soft fork to pave the way for the second layer solutions. Bitcoin is still evolving, it will hit a wall every now and then, and it will be overcome. The fees have massively dropped due to segwit adoption, and LN development is underway and being tested as we speak.

Worldwide adoption: Well bitcoin is a new currency, do you really expect worldwide adoption within less than a decade? Be realistic.

Taxes: Do you really expect worldwide adoption, no bans, and evasion of taxes? What government will stand by and allow that? People complain about taxes, but believe me you don't want to live in a world where community services are not provided as there is no tax system.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: 9emb3lelit3 on February 16, 2018, 02:23:46 PM
why can not you trust me with bitcoin ????, if i see you definitely use this bitcoin investment the wrong way, and surely you are too eager too high to get profit. dibitcoin not circulated like that my friend, dibitcoin must always with patience, there are steps that we must follow and can not be violated. just take the lesson, do not you directly do not believe in this bitcoin, because in my opinion, from this bitcoin that will change our economic life if we do it right. a lot of lessons that we can get from this bitcoin, so most importantly patience to pursue what we want from this bitcoin. think positive my friend.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: Kprawn on February 16, 2018, 02:46:09 PM
not a tax for ice cream but for buying bitcoin, back their how can you pay tax for bitcoin if you mined it with your computer

This is just ridiculous. You have to pay taxes, no matter how you earn that money. If you got into Bitcoin because you want

to avoid paying taxes, then you in the wrong game. Yes, some of the early investors had these great dreams of a

technology that would give the big "FUCK YOU" to governments and that was totally unrealistic. Governments might not be

able to STOP Bitcoin {the technology}, but they can regulate it to death. {effectively banning it and making it a criminal

offense, if you were caught using it} Do you want that or do you want to find some middle ground where Bitcoin can still

be used, within the same regulated environment as other financial technologies? Pay your damn taxes and be done with these

F'ker!


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: Lucacrebbe on February 16, 2018, 02:47:36 PM

XSH

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2234453.0



Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: Yesolo on February 16, 2018, 02:51:41 PM
I'm pretty sure another cryptocurrency will end up being the one used everywhere...
“Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do...”
(c) John Lennon
 ;D

...while bitcoin will be digital gold.

100% agree!


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: toresto on February 16, 2018, 02:51:47 PM
not a tax for ice cream but for buying bitcoin, back their how can you pay tax for bitcoin if you mined it with your computer

This is just ridiculous. You have to pay taxes, no matter how you earn that money. If you got into Bitcoin because you want

to avoid paying taxes, then you in the wrong game. Yes, some of the early investors had these great dreams of a

technology that would give the big "FUCK YOU" to governments and that was totally unrealistic. Governments might not be

able to STOP Bitcoin {the technology}, but they can regulate it to death. {effectively banning it and making it a criminal

offense, if you were caught using it} Do you want that or do you want to find some middle ground where Bitcoin can still

be used, within the same regulated environment as other financial technologies? Pay your damn taxes and be done with these

F'ker!

in 2011 government treated bitcoin as "wtf is bitcoin" and relax it's not "real money"
and no one even talked about put tax on bitcoin it was not real for them


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: guschin on February 16, 2018, 02:53:15 PM
I would like to express regarding the tax part. In my country, you have to pay taxes on all types of income from any investment. Bitcoins was never an exception to this and thus people had to pay taxes on profit made in trading. If you are taking about additional taxes, that is really bad for us. I think even government is milking the craze for bitcoins.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: toresto on February 16, 2018, 02:53:57 PM
I would like to express regarding the tax part. In my country, you have to pay taxes on all types of income from any investment. Bitcoins was never an exception to this and thus people had to pay taxes on profit made in trading. If you are taking about additional taxes, that is really bad for us. I think even government is milking the craze for bitcoins.

yes the additional taxes


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: bug.lady on February 16, 2018, 02:54:45 PM
even with Lightning Network people holding their coins and not really using them.

so Crypto  became trade market and not currency

if people not looking at bitcoin as currency in real life, we kinda losing the whole point of bitcoin here

Part of the problem is the limited supply. When a currency is deflationary, people hoard it, they don't spend.

I'm pretty sure another cryptocurrency will end up being the one used everywhere, while bitcoin will be digital gold.
I would incline into thinking that it is actually a socialy beneficial aspect of bitcoin, that it encourages saving. People would save it instead of mindlessly spending it in malls as it is currently a case with fiat. The societies of today live on debt and are encouraged to spend more and more. With bitcoin, there would at least be an incentive to save. What can be wrong with that?


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: tegarp90 on February 16, 2018, 02:59:22 PM
regardless of beleiving bitcoin or not, you can not deny that bitcoin already made us a lot of money (for who joined crypto in < mid 2017)
So that's not a problem anymore, except u re a new investor


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: toresto on February 16, 2018, 03:06:23 PM
regardless of beleiving bitcoin or not, you can not deny that bitcoin already made us a lot of money (for who joined crypto in < mid 2017)
So that's not a problem anymore, except u re a new investor

I'm not talking about investing I talking about the belief that bitcoin tried to deliver in 2011
I never invested in crypto I always was mining many of already dead coin
and for me the interest in the technology.

people investing in bitcoin without any belief and what he can do but purely to gain money from
it.

so if you invest in something without any belief on what is it and why you just investing your money into bubble!

if you know why to invest and not only to invest that whole different story.

that is what I'm trying to say stop investing with a hope but understand why you invest in bitcoin and only because you watch some youtube video's that saying invest
bottom line in 2012 if you investing you at least know why bitcoin may be the next thing today it's only pure hope to get rich fast.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: Kprawn on February 16, 2018, 03:06:55 PM
not a tax for ice cream but for buying bitcoin, back their how can you pay tax for bitcoin if you mined it with your computer

This is just ridiculous. You have to pay taxes, no matter how you earn that money. If you got into Bitcoin because you want

to avoid paying taxes, then you in the wrong game. Yes, some of the early investors had these great dreams of a

technology that would give the big "FUCK YOU" to governments and that was totally unrealistic. Governments might not be

able to STOP Bitcoin {the technology}, but they can regulate it to death. {effectively banning it and making it a criminal

offense, if you were caught using it} Do you want that or do you want to find some middle ground where Bitcoin can still

be used, within the same regulated environment as other financial technologies? Pay your damn taxes and be done with these

F'ker!

in 2011 government treated bitcoin as "wtf is bitcoin" and relax it's not "real money"
and no one even talked about put tax on bitcoin it was not real for them

I was around back then and I assure you most of us added "investment income" on our tax return, hoping that we would not

be audited. I treated it as "commodity trading" for tax purposes and I paid Capital Gains. {As advised by a tax consultant}

So, IF you really wanted to pay taxes, you could go the extra mile, but people seem to think Bitcoin is Tax-free or Duty

free. Just recently we saw the media claiming that most people on Coinbase, were not paying taxes. We should adapt to

changing circumstances and get with the program or Bitcoin will be banned. {I hate it, but that is the reality}  >:(

Edited : Spelling & Grammar  ::)


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: Bolt Brownie on February 16, 2018, 03:18:24 PM
even with Lightning Network people holding their coins and not really using them.

so Crypto  became trade market and not currency

if people not looking at bitcoin as currency in real life, we kinda losing the whole point of bitcoin here

Why do you say that even with the lightning network people will be holding their coins instead of using them?
Although we already have some lightning network nodes working on the main net, because we have some "techy" users that are very excited with it's development and can't wait to try it out, I'm sure we all agree that the LN is still in alpha phase to say the least. I do hope we will see it released during this year, but we are still away from it because it's very hard to use right now (and some developers even ask you not to do it right now, at least not on the main net of course).

So you can't say that even with LN, people will not use their coins. I know I will use them, if I see merchants adopting it. If bitcoin gets safe enough I definitely prefer to use it as a payment method, instead of a credit card. I'm not saying I would entirely switch fiat for bitcoin, but I would definitely hold both, and use both as I see fit.

As far as taxes and regulation goes, I'm not against regulation and I think it will help adoption. I do think bitcoin should be taxed as a currency and not as property, but time will tell how things will turn out. I do think we must pay taxes over our bitcoin gains. It's a normal thing to do since we live in a society. If governments are not corrupt, taxes are a good and necessary thing, and I see no problem with them.

I still have a lot of faith in crypto, and I think it has good chances of turning out fine. If governments do a bad job in regulating it, we can still use it as peoples money, just like citizens in Venezuela are doing. I do hope it doesn't have to come to that, and I don't think it will, since most developed countries are not like Venezuela.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: Bodiul1975 on February 16, 2018, 03:19:00 PM
Bitcoin is a liquefied currency that can be seen online but is not seen as a money market, so Bitcoin does not believe that there are many people who do not believe this Liquid bitkayen.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: First77 on February 16, 2018, 03:23:37 PM
Bitcoin price rise $1 to $20,000 gave $800,000,000 to a single "cyber criminal".

A major terrorist attack looks imminent.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: bug.lady on February 16, 2018, 03:35:47 PM
Bitcoin price rise $1 to $20,000 gave $800,000,000 to a single "cyber criminal".

A major terrorist attack looks imminent.
it is true only with the assumption that a single cyber criminal holds 40.000 BTC. Wow! It is a big assumption you know. Do you have any link or any source to backup your claim?

Also, why link cyber criminality with terrorist activity in one sentence? They may be related but saying imminent is a stretch to me.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: adzino on February 16, 2018, 03:36:51 PM
Strongly agree with your points. Bitcoin "used to be" completely and truly decentralized back then. But sadly the government had to intervene and start regulating exchanges in order to take at least some control over crypto currencies indirectly.
You do know that the fees recently has fallen significantly. Fee as low as 5 sat/b will get your transactions confirmed within next 6-7 blocks.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: Hellobx on February 16, 2018, 03:42:35 PM
Gox? Oh, no, I hate to hear this name, this broken website that makes me sad.
But the arrival of the  lightning network is likely to change the current status, I think if the block of congestion and transfer speed is too slow problem was solved, so the bitcoin is entirely possible to become real currency.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: toresto on February 16, 2018, 03:46:05 PM
Gox? Oh, no, I hate to hear this name, this broken website that makes me sad.
But the arrival of the  lightning network is likely to change the current status, I think if the block of congestion and transfer speed is too slow problem was solved, so the bitcoin is entirely possible to become real currency.

I wish it become a real currency

oh yeah Damn you mt Gox


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: bug.lady on February 16, 2018, 03:46:35 PM
Strongly agree with your points. Bitcoin "used to be" completely and truly decentralized back then. But sadly the government had to intervene and start regulating exchanges in order to take at least some control over crypto currencies indirectly.
You do know that the fees recently has fallen significantly. Fee as low as 5 sat/b will get your transactions confirmed within next 6-7 blocks.
But the fee problem is not related to government regulations. The regulations are there to protect people from scam (good thing) and to be able to tax them (well, discutable). The high fees are the joint effect of some technological and architecture decisions in the past, greed of miners (mining empty or half empty blocks), and the increasing user base to the point blockchain is overloaded (related to great success of bitcoin)


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: b!t on February 16, 2018, 03:47:01 PM
Come on man, the solutions for for upgrading the bitcoin network won't come in a day, it takes a lot of time to do things correctly and not screw things up. Give it time, Like Antonopoulos said about the internet it was horrible in the early years, and look at it now. I wish there would be more ways to actually use bitcoin now, but I believe things will get better when riding the lightning. We'll see.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: toresto on February 16, 2018, 03:50:44 PM
Come on man, the solutions for for upgrading the bitcoin network won't come in a day, it takes a lot of time to do things correctly and not screw things up. Give it time, Like Antonopoulos said about the internet it was horrible in the early years, and look at it now. I wish there would be more ways to actually use bitcoin now, but I believe things will get better when riding the lightning. We'll see.

it will take time but it doesn't change the fact the people hold it as casino chips waiting to cash out, most of the people that bought bitcoin from exchanges  never even tried to use it so they not even aware of the problem with the light network, they just don't use bitcoin as money


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: bernashka on February 16, 2018, 03:55:19 PM
1) Over time, mining will become cheaper.
2) The pressure of opponents (power, other EPS) will intensify, there will be a lot of negative
3) Owners themselves will gradually get rid of bitcoins (tired of just), or because of fear of collapse of the course. The supply will exceed demand
4) Loss of faith / novelty effect
5) With any "bunch / sneek" Bitcoin will fly down quickly, and recover slowly. (fear, mistrust) that can provoke a further fall.

I personally would not have invested in this currency for more than a few months. It's almost like a Mavro: the rate is constantly growing and those wishing to buy a new course are decreasing.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: CryptoWorld87 on February 16, 2018, 04:12:54 PM
i agree with some of your points in there specialy about the fee todays is too much that if you send a small amount you have to pay higher and if you want faster transaction then you have to pay more higher. sopposedly if you send an amount like 50cent the payment fee is more lower like 3 cent for example but it happens now that the fee is more higher than you have to send. about the faster transaction i wish LN can solve this problem.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: BrewMaster on February 16, 2018, 04:26:05 PM
in 2012 the only question that people asked me was
"what is bitcoin?"

today only one:

"should I invest or not?"

what you say is true and people need to know bitcoin as a currency more than they know it as an investment but you can't blame them for it because it appreciates a lot and will continue to do so for a long time and that will make people want to think of it more as an investment.

also i want to mention that things weren't so different in 2012 either. maybe in 2009 and early months of bitcoin release what you said was true but ever since it was listed on an exchange and trading started and price went from $0.01 to $1 people have been asking "should i invest in bitcoin".


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: toresto on February 16, 2018, 04:45:32 PM
And yes, I think that Bitcoin is a perfect investment... for the next couple of years ;)

but why?

can you explain why to invest besides "it's going to grow up"  "buy it while you can"
well in  2011-12 I could explain why to   "invest" or not to "invest"
explain to people why bitcoin as a technology and practical use in life
and why the price is going to blow up in the future.

but not now


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: tetyulfania on February 16, 2018, 04:50:26 PM
You have the trouble with the ico coin and you can make the fault to make the words of bitcoin is cam and you will not believe the bitcoin, same the ico project is manage by the owner have bad reputation, and they are the owner of ponzi, so they have the attitude to lie all of investors want to invest their money in ico, they put the ico and coin name for their project, but the main of their goal is to scam all of investor, so you can say bitcoin is scam.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: nick_nick on February 16, 2018, 04:56:03 PM
It doesn't look like you've transacted with Bitcoin lately. I'd be surprised if you have to spend even 50 cents. Unless you're on an exchange of course, in which case it's hardly the network's fault.

Other than that, it's cool. We all have different reasons for believing, and if you feel Bitcoin is no longer that, then by all means make your exit. I still believe in Bitcoin as a currency. It's still in its infancy as far as the technology goes, and improvements like the Lightning Network are going to make it more and more viable.
I humbly support this assertion. Bitcoin is still infant because more people are yet to understand cryptocurrencies and how it work. I strongly believe in Bitcoin and know it would bounce back; however you may also have your reasons for wanting to back off


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: Yesolo on February 16, 2018, 06:58:56 PM
but why?

can you explain why to invest besides "it's going to grow up"  "buy it while you can"
well in  2011-12 I could explain why to   "invest" or not to "invest"
explain to people why bitcoin as a technology and practical use in life
and why the price is going to blow up in the future.

but not now

Yes, I can. But first, I’d like to tell that perfect investment to me means 50%-100% yearly. And I believe that the auditory of bitcoin will hit the maximum value in the next couple of years. And it will be the moment to sell it. More precisely it will be the moment when my grandma decides to buy bitcoin.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: toresto on February 16, 2018, 07:09:00 PM
but why?

can you explain why to invest besides "it's going to grow up"  "buy it while you can"
well in  2011-12 I could explain why to   "invest" or not to "invest"
explain to people why bitcoin as a technology and practical use in life
and why the price is going to blow up in the future.

but not now

Yes, I can. But first, I’d like to tell that perfect investment to me means 50%-100% yearly. And I believe that the auditory of bitcoin will hit the maximum value in the next couple of years. And it will be the moment to sell it. More precisely it will be the moment when my grandma decides to buy bitcoin.

BUT WHY??
you just saying the same thing as other its a good "investment"
to invest you just saying you will get 50% but why? can you justify your words?

maybe in the future bitcoin will lunch an aircraft or maybe some country will declare it as their currency

besides saying you will gain 50 or 100%  more do you say to people
"it's decentralized" "more shops will accept it to keep it"
soon everyone will use bitcoin this was the words I used to convince people to use bitcoin in 2011-2012

this was the point of my post people look at bitcoin only as a momentum to invest it becomes "casino chips" you just hold to cash out

but no one can really justify their words and explain why to invest in this "bitcoin"


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: Walrus1 on February 16, 2018, 08:43:18 PM
I like it for the tech and possibilities. Yes it's treated like a commodity now perhaps it will stay that way perhaps it will change. Currencies are traded like commodities. The idea of Bitcoin is much cooler than it what it has become. I do think one of these, be it btc, eth or ltc will eventually be used as currency. For now I want to see where it goes. As far as it being an investment yes, I do invest in it, but I invest like I invest in Apple, not just for value but I beleive they can do great things in the future. I stay away from those pump and dump alts, they really twisted the idea of btc. Anyway I get your points it's not like they don't have validity


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: flippener on February 16, 2018, 09:23:50 PM
It's funny how people come out of the woodwork and say they no longer believe in Bitcoin, now that it's popular and is starting to be used by everyone as it was originally intended. Were they only interested in it when it was only them and their friends who knew about it?


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: toresto on February 16, 2018, 09:25:36 PM
I like it for the tech and possibilities. Yes it's treated like a commodity now perhaps it will stay that way perhaps it will change. Currencies are traded like commodities. The idea of Bitcoin is much cooler than it what it has become. I do think one of these, be it btc, eth or ltc will eventually be used as currency. For now I want to see where it goes. As far as it being an investment yes, I do invest in it, but I invest like I invest in Apple, not just for value but I beleive they can do great things in the future. I stay away from those pump and dump alts, they really twisted the idea of btc. Anyway I get your points it's not like they don't have validity

I hope people will understand that bitcoin is much more than an opportunity to invest, first, it's currency than technology that trying to deliver something and to do something
and then they invest but with huge different, no empty promises but knowing why to invest in bitcoin.

and not just invest it's a huge gain you can earn 50% it will go up without really explaining why.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: toresto on February 16, 2018, 09:29:05 PM
It's funny how people come out of the woodwork and say they no longer believe in Bitcoin, now that it's popular and is starting to be used by everyone as it was originally intended. Were they only interested in it when it was only them and their friends who knew about it?

but investing in something no matter if this bitcoin or another crypto without knowing why it grows up, don't you think is pointless invest in the air?

when you ask people should you invest what they say??

yes but if you ask why bitcoin, besides  answering it will make you rich or it will go back to 20,000
nothing to confirm that.

and yes I not looking at bitcoin as a currency of the future or anything like that as I used in 2011-12
I look at it as investment just like others and that what Grinds My Gears.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: Mike Mayor on February 16, 2018, 09:33:59 PM
Moan moan moan moan moan. That's all I read. Noone saying what's good about Bitcoin and noone seems to appreciate it. Humans are great at pointing problems out and moaning but not too good at solving them. I use Bitcoin very often and the fees are fine. If you want bitcoin to do well and used as it should be then lead by example and actually start spending some and stop using Fiat so much.  Stop relying on fiat people. Fiat is the devil's work!!!


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: toresto on February 16, 2018, 09:51:01 PM
Moan moan moan moan moan. That's all I read. Noone saying what's good about Bitcoin and noone seems to appreciate it. Humans are great at pointing problems out and moaning but not too good at solving them. I use Bitcoin very often and the fees are fine. If you want bitcoin to do well and used as it should be then lead by example and actually start spending some and stop using Fiat so much.  Stop relying on fiat people. Fiat is the devil's work!!!

yes fiat is devil and bitcoin was developed to replace this devil and not only investment opportunity

and yes no one saying what good about bitcoin only invest invest invest

in 2012 i was fighting with people trying to explain why bitcoin and what good in bitcoin and how it's going to change the world today useless people
tackling me without understanding that i not hating bitcoin it just sucks what people made from bitcoin it's supposed to be money, not only asset to hold
and invest because the price will go up


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: alyssa85 on February 16, 2018, 10:15:38 PM
It's funny how people come out of the woodwork and say they no longer believe in Bitcoin, now that it's popular and is starting to be used by everyone as it was originally intended. Were they only interested in it when it was only them and their friends who knew about it?

It's not being used as originally intended. It's just being speculated. A lot of hard won adoption from the 2013-2015 era has been rolled back (Microsoft no longer accepts Bitcoin, neither does Dell, Steam and others). The remittance industry has switched from using Bitcoin to using Bitshares. The dark markets have switched from using Bitcoin to using Monero.

A lot of adoption of other coins is happening - but bitcoin is going backwards. Apart from in speculation - there it is the #1.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: boakyei on February 16, 2018, 10:17:51 PM
A currency is a medium of exchange or store of value. Bitcoins do perform all this functions, and it has every futures that a currency possess, the only difference is that it is digital and electronic.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: Arngrim on February 16, 2018, 10:25:26 PM
Well said, I really loved it.
It is not FUD. It is the truth you are trying to say here.
I hope this could open the minds of those who are just here to have knowledge about bitcoin. About the truth. It cannot be just invest and all about money.
There should be a good purpose in the future and that should also be the aim.
For now, I am giving it some time. Maybe it will change. Maybe they will see that someday.
All maybe's but the good thing is I dont lose hope.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: maaydin on February 16, 2018, 10:29:05 PM
the points you have mentioned are totally right in my perspective and even people who have not any education say that btc will hit 100k without even knowing what they are investing to, it makes nonsense to me as well when I hear those things even though btc has that potential.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: Ozero on February 16, 2018, 10:34:52 PM
For the development of the crypto currency as an absolutely new type of financial relations, about ten years, this is very small. This is a completely new phenomenon that we have never met in the history of mankind. So why wonder if bitcoin now has temporary difficulties with scalability. This only indicates that initially the developers did not expect such an interest in it. It's the opposite in its kind of victory. It's just a problem to be solved. and maybe it will be solved by the introduction into the bitcoin of the lightning network or even by its more perfect analog, called a phantom.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: toresto on February 16, 2018, 10:35:50 PM
Well said, I really loved it.
It is not FUD. It is the truth you are trying to say here.
I hope this could open the minds of those who are just here to have knowledge about bitcoin. About the truth. It cannot be just invest and all about money.
There should be a good purpose in the future and that should also be the aim.
For now, I am giving it some time. Maybe it will change. Maybe they will see that someday.
All maybe's but the good thing is I dont lose hope.


thank you, few but at least some people do understand what this post is all about.

but there is always a hope, just being realistic.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: toresto on February 16, 2018, 10:37:36 PM
For the development of the crypto currency as an absolutely new type of financial relations, about ten years, this is very small. This is a completely new phenomenon that we have never met in the history of mankind. So why wonder if bitcoin now has temporary difficulties with scalability. This only indicates that initially the developers did not expect such an interest in it. It's the opposite in its kind of victory. It's just a problem to be solved. and maybe it will be solved by the introduction into the bitcoin of the lightning network or even by its more perfect analog, called a phantom.


the problem is not with the LIght network but how people look at bitcoin--> only a momentum for investing and nothing else


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: angaper on February 16, 2018, 10:53:38 PM
I believe that, on the contrary, at this moment we are in one of the best scenarios that nobody ever imagined for bitcoin: a team of developers committed to giving true functionality to bitcoin as cryptocurrency (at this moment I am transferring bitcoins from my favorite wallet for only 1000 satoshis of fee), many governments in the world discussing about the possibility of regulating its use to get it out of the dark, big business projects developing with blockchain technology, and institutional investment funds interested in bitcoin . I believe that bitcoin still has a lot to offer to the global economy, but you have the right to give up this magnificent opportunity.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: toresto on February 16, 2018, 10:56:57 PM
I believe that, on the contrary, at this moment we are in one of the best scenarios that nobody ever imagined for bitcoin: a team of developers committed to giving true functionality to bitcoin as cryptocurrency (at this moment I am transferring bitcoins from my favorite wallet for only 1000 satoshis of fee), many governments in the world discussing about the possibility of regulating its use to get it out of the dark, big business projects developing with blockchain technology, and institutional investment funds interested in bitcoin . I believe that bitcoin still has a lot to offer to the global economy, but you have the right to give up this magnificent opportunity.

people look at bitcoin as a way to gain from 100$  to 5M and not as a payment method.

I said not believe in bitcoin as money anymore, but you can invest and gain but it's just investing without knowing in what an why


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: rodskee on February 16, 2018, 10:57:05 PM
if you are not believing in bitcoin as digital cryptocurrency why  are you  here and you asking on that question you are the only can answer to yourself why your believing in crypto sorry do not offended. we should all know the cunrently real money, paper money or fiat money anything what is the right called for there are not easy to remove in the circulation of world currency. on more reason why world banker hate crypto because have possile to closed bank because of digital currency, digital currency treated as a bank the online wallet system. so if you are convince to belive crypto thats your choice.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: toresto on February 16, 2018, 11:04:55 PM
if you are not believing in bitcoin as digital cryptocurrency why  are you  here and you asking on that question you are the only can answer to yourself why your believing in crypto sorry do not offended. we should all know the cunrently real money, paper money or fiat money anything what is the right called for there are not easy to remove in the circulation of world currency. on more reason why world banker hate crypto because have possile to closed bank because of digital currency, digital currency treated as a bank the online wallet system. so if you are convince to belive crypto thats your choice.

this is useless probably people that in bitcoin after 2015-2016 and an especially 2017 look at it as an investment and only as an investment

90% of people here that holding bitcoin they only holding it and not bought to use it

this is what makes all the difference, you got your bitcoins for daily use?? or to hold it and cash out when the moment is right!

i pretty sure that you just hold your coins, and not planning to use them.

most of you tackle me and defend  bitcoin
but not in the way i used to do in 2011

bitcoin is much more than investment

and i here because i believe in crypto  and in bitcoin but not   what people made from bitcoin and how they look at bitcoin (only as investment)


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: Skyrah2008 on February 16, 2018, 11:09:01 PM
Don't look it as an investment. Cryptocurrencies is the future of online payments and currency. We can not handle them but the value of this digital currency will surpass what it's current value of fiat. Just believe on technology.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: #dhabitamartha on February 16, 2018, 11:21:26 PM
I can only work well to let it be worth following but I'm sure someday bitcoin will dominate the world market and could change the dollar as it gets bigger and more and more innovative technology will make it easier for people in transactions and do not have to swap currencies from the country seems old-fashioned and will even better if we can use virtual currency anywhere


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: Yesolo on February 17, 2018, 07:03:54 AM
BUT WHY??
you just saying the same thing as other its a good "investment"
to invest you just saying you will get 50% but why? can you justify your words?

maybe in the future bitcoin will lunch an aircraft or maybe some country will declare it as their currency

besides saying you will gain 50 or 100%  more do you say to people
"it's decentralized" "more shops will accept it to keep it"
soon everyone will use bitcoin this was the words I used to convince people to use bitcoin in 2011-2012

this was the point of my post people look at bitcoin only as a momentum to invest it becomes "casino chips" you just hold to cash out

but no one can really justify their words and explain why to invest in this "bitcoin"


Any prediction about the value of BTC is just an expectation of the predictor... including yours... and it has a probability of 50% to be true ;) The basis of my opinion is that BTC/USD trend is still upward in weeks. That is why I am sure the more auditory it will attract the higher value of the BTC we have. And we will see new muximums. Then, when there will be no more newcomers (even my grandma) the trend turns downward and perhaps you will get what you want :)

BTW if any country will declare that BTC is the official currency of the country it means that there is no such country :)


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: Dudeperfect on February 17, 2018, 07:11:22 AM
Things are still in the development mode and yet there is huge scope for the growth. The core values of Bitcoin are based on the decentralization principle and it makes sense to use it as a payment system. Ideally, it might not follow the criteria of the traditional currency but it is definitely a good option having potential to emerge as a payment system.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: d0flaming0 on February 17, 2018, 07:16:33 AM
Things are still in the development mode and yet there is huge scope for the growth. The core values of Bitcoin are based on the decentralization principle and it makes sense to use it as a payment system. Ideally, it might not follow the criteria of the traditional currency but it is definitely a good option having potential to emerge as a payment system.
it may look like the OP was having bad times since then, that is why he's been mad about trusting bitcoin. Well we can't blame him either but if you look at the bright aide of this picture, there are lots of improvements lately and since the first launch and still it keeps running up until now.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: toresto on February 17, 2018, 08:53:49 AM
Things are still in the development mode and yet there is huge scope for the growth. The core values of Bitcoin are based on the decentralization principle and it makes sense to use it as a payment system. Ideally, it might not follow the criteria of the traditional currency but it is definitely a good option having potential to emerge as a payment system.
it may look like the OP was having bad times since then, that is why he's been mad about trusting bitcoin. Well we can't blame him either but if you look at the bright aide of this picture, there are lots of improvements lately and since the first launch and still it keeps running up until now.

I sad about how people treat it most people don't look at bitcoin as currency or  technology but just a way to invest money


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: ogtejiri on February 17, 2018, 09:10:07 AM
BECAUSE ITS NOT A PHYSICAL OR RAW CASH


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: toresto on February 17, 2018, 11:33:47 AM
BECAUSE ITS NOT A PHYSICAL OR RAW CASH

well in 2010 people look differently at bitcoin.
especially with companies like Bitpay was introduced.

I don't blame people I think people that in bitcoin after 2016-2017
look at bitcoin as an only investment and nothing more
and people like me before the ICO's and SMART CONTRACTS
and all the exchanges look differently at bitcoin.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: webdevmastery on February 17, 2018, 11:37:10 AM
It doesn't look like you've transacted with Bitcoin lately. I'd be surprised if you have to spend even 50 cents. Unless you're on an exchange of course, in which case it's hardly the network's fault.

Other than that, it's cool. We all have different reasons for believing, and if you feel Bitcoin is no longer that, then by all means make your exit. I still believe in Bitcoin as a currency. It's still in its infancy as far as the technology goes, and improvements like the Lightning Network are going to make it more and more viable.

I agree on your, now a days it was really hard to sustain our daily needs because the prices are keep on increasing so people think of an alternative on where they can get more money. Thankfully, cryptocurrency is existing and we can invest on it and earn profit after a few months of holding depending on the markets flow.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: DoublerHunter on February 17, 2018, 11:53:53 AM
Based on my experiences, it made me believed that bitcoin is not also a currency because it is more on being an asset or an investment because you cannot use it to pay things and use as a regular currency for a regular basis and one of the reason also is the high fees and also slow confirmation speed that makes bitcoin not qualified as a currency.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: toresto on February 17, 2018, 11:58:39 AM
Based on my experiences, it made me believed that bitcoin is not also a currency because it is more on being an asset or an investment because you cannot use it to pay things and use as a regular currency for a regular basis and one of the reason also is the high fees and also slow confirmation speed that makes bitcoin not qualified as a currency.

that's right, and that what this post is all about in 2011 we look at bitcoin as the currency of the future today it's just a way to invest and gain money.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: brickafterbrickwalldpt on February 17, 2018, 12:12:58 PM
I understand your concerns and you are partially right. A lot of people decided to hold their bitcoins instead using them because it became extremely profitable. However, I don't agree that transactions take a lot of time to confirm. Fortunately, it seems that even transactions with 1 sat/b go through right now. Many shops still accept Bitcoin. Some companies announced that they are removing Bitcoin support but a few days after that they brought it back.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: toresto on February 17, 2018, 12:15:44 PM
I understand your concerns and you are partially right. A lot of people decided to hold their bitcoins instead using them because it became extremely profitable. However, I don't agree that transactions take a lot of time to confirm. Fortunately, it seems that even transactions with 1 sat/b go through right now. Many shops still accept Bitcoin. Some companies announced that they are removing Bitcoin support but a few days after that they brought it back.

one of the problems is the speeding of the transaction and light network here to help, but it doesn't solve the problem that people just holding their bitcoin
and not using bitcoin to buy things, and let's hope the in the future we really going to see more job places the paid their workers with bitcoin.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: monkeydominicorobin on February 17, 2018, 12:35:19 PM
I in the crypto world since 2011-2012
and for me as a tech guy more interest in the blockchain technology a special when Namecoin
was released and actually utilized the blockchain for DNS chain, from that point it changes the way
I look at bitcoin and truly understood the power of Blockchain and Cryptocurrency and the future of Bitcoin as currency
and not only investing without understanding what are the benefits and how and why
this sweet digital currency set out to change global finance and the world.


 I think people that in bitcoin after 2016-2017 and maybe 2015 will not understand this post they
look at bitcoin as an only investment and nothing more.
 just started with bitcoin and another crypto because they how the price jumped out and how you can turn "500$ to 4M"youtube videos.
and the tv and media that talked about that.

and people like me before the ICO's and SMART CONTRACTS
and all the exchanges look differently at bitcoin.

we believed that in the futures more bitcoin jobs and people will get paid in bitcoin
and you able to travel around to world with one currency
and pay in local shops


"Bitcoin is peer to peer payment network digital currency "

do bitcoin really doing this in 2018
are people really using this as currency
is more and more local shops accepting bitcoin(physical store not over the internet)
do we get more job places and people got paid with bitcoins?
do new people look at bitcoin that way or only as a momentum to invest, and make 500$ to 4M?

and this is few of the things we believed at that time

no taxes
since no regulation, it's a coin for the people and minted by the people

failed: more and more countries trying to control and regulate Bitcoin and implement taxes since nowadays you mostly buy bitcoin and not
mining using your pc, we had only 2 options
mine it or
Damn you Mt.gox
and no taxes because of bitcoin was mined by us the people and no ASIC  that time

and bitcoin for the government wasn't real
and it wasn't an investment but some "idiots solving mats stuff with their computer" and as a reward getting some
"crypto Coins" that have no real use and not real money!
it's only in past serval years they change their mind
I talking about 2011-2012, not 2018!

I am not talking about a tax for buying a product with bitcoin but for buying bitcoin, back their how can you pay tax for bitcoin if you mined it with your computer
now you can't you go to exchange and must pay taxes for something that several years ago:

"what is bitcoin"
"it's not real why should I accept it"

fast and instant
you can send even small amount as 1$ instantly to anyone in the world and pay a super ridiculous low fee

failed:
and even with the LIght Network!!
new or average bitcoin user who is holding a few dollars can’t actually use bitcoin as money because the fee is higher than the money they’re holding. (we talking about few dollars not thousands)
if you received your 1 dollar with 100 of small transaction you will pay for the bytes and most likely it will cost you more.


more and more local shops accepting bitcoin

I remember  the first coffee shop in my town accepted bitcoin as
a payment that was for me like buying something for the first time with
my own money, felt like this is the moment all bitcoin
users was waited for

more and more people using bitcoin for daily use in real life
as more shops  accepting bitcoin more users start using them

failed: as the bitcoin network became heavy
and the price of bitcoin went super crazy up
fewer people actually using Bitcoin in daily life
and holding it as casino chip waiting to cash out
as a result of this fewer shops accepting bitcoin
because no one uses them but just holding as an
Investment.

and besides who wants to accept currency
when you just want to buy a coffee and wait
30 minutes to 2 weeks for a transaction
approved depending how much fee you paid

sure if you buying a car you willing to wait 2 days or even weeks
but not when you buying a Fre@king coffee.

and yes even with the light network

Bitcoin is not fast anymore every one waiting in a queue and competing with a transaction fee
to be the first to validated and there is tons of other that waiting exactly like you.


and the most important of all

One World, One Currency
The supply and minting of a global currency not regulated by a central banking but decentralized,
no age sex or geolocation discrimination Currency for the world people and   minted by the world  people,

it's supposed to be world currency you could travel anywhere on in the world and buy in local shops
and not only over the net.

imagine a world where you can go to your shopping mall and buy an ice cream or ticket to the movie
and then go out with your girlfriend to eat in a restaurant.


Big Epic Failed: do you understand that people no more creating(mining)
this Currency unless you got sh**load of money to buy your self ASIC, and honestly I will not be surprised if we find out that huge corporation  or even some countries owning the majority of huge "ming farms"



So people not using bitcoin the way it should be only as "casino chips"
and this the manly problem with ICO'S scam and any other investment in cryptocurrency.




people forgot that in Cryptocurrency you have Currency, so stop treating as "opportunity to invest".
sure it's investment but back in 2011 we at least knew why to invest in bitcoin and how it's really goind to change the world.

and the only question I got asked that time was:

"what is bitcoin?"

and I was explaining them about blockchain and that it decentralized
and people still was confused asking me why should I put real money into
this "virtual" thing

and I was nailed my explanation with only one sentence

"dude its free money"

and that worked every time.

remember you could mine it with your pc no ASIC was at that time
and butterfly labs just was a baby and doing their  "Pre-sale"

so yeah it's basically was the global world free money

today people only ask one question:

"should I invest or not in bitcoin?"

and many if people look at this as real life-changing and real currency that you can use in your daily life
and that there is a technology behind it

how can you claim in "Crypto We trust"
if the majority of people use it only as "Casino Chips" and  "opportunity to invest".
you really think with that thinking there is a real-life use for cryptoCURRENCY


people think twice next time before buying some cheesy ICO's or investing in coins that have no real life use

look if it really going to do something and if the world really needs it.

I think we destroyed Bitcoin and what Bitcoin stands for, so at least let's save the
future of other cryptocurrency and helpful we truly see crypto in real life
and every shop will accept it as their payment


and besides how can you claim bitcoin will replace gold and money if

today you able to buy a house with it and tomorrow you can't even buy bread, so how can you trust that as money replacement.

and I do believe in cryptocurrency I just not believe in bitcoin as a global currency
because what other people made him, and not in bitcoin itself

and the whole point of this post is to raise the awareness of people how they thread cryptocurrency
and understand why they invest in "token" or coin there is something behind it and not only "take my money" but WHY
and once again I could buy my self a coffee without waiting 2 weeks and pay a high fee

people still investing in tokens and thinking that tokens are cryptocurrency
and the blockchain is Bitcoin and not a technology.

and in 2011 I was conflicted with people
"what is bitcoin" and was always defending
today it's useless most of the people that replying to my post
don't understand that I talking from the point of view and  believes we had in 2011
regarding bitcoin on back there, we believed that bitcoin replace the money
and later that bitcoin is digital gold

today it's completely different people look at bitcoin only as an investment
and for me holding bitcoin and using every time I see a local shop that accepts it
was a great deal in that time

I just disappointed that some people still don't understand that bitcoin suppose to be
digital money and not only a digital asset

and nothing wrong if you invest and hold it just understand why and in what you invest.

ohh yeah and sometimes they add "it's anonymous", or decentralized but without any blive into it but only pure "invest" invest and invest!

and today if you ask someone do you believe in bitcoin??
and did you invest in bitcoin

most likely will be "yes" but why?
and they replay with something like "I believe the price will go higher 20000"
"the price will go up" "invest"
you will not hear a good explanation why da hell they investing in bitcoin
and you will not hear  "it's the money of the future" "more and more shops accepting it" "it's going to be the world money" but just invest invest invest!!!!!


we knew that this kind of thing
have a future so we knew why to hold and invest.





and remember it's crypto---->>>>>CURRENCY so threat that as CURRENCY








It is your prerogative to hate Bitcoin. It is our prerogative to use Bitcoin in our everyday lives. If you are trying to pull everyone down because you lost a lot from the Mt. Gox debacle. I am sorry but Bitcoin is not at fault. They used Bitcoin as a scapegoat and it shows. Nowadays Bitcoin worth 6,000 to 19,000 dollars per unit so if Bitcoin is at fault back then. How did Bitcoin made a huge comeback? It is because a lot of people realized that transaction malleability is just an invention of Mt. Gox.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: toresto on February 17, 2018, 12:59:23 PM

[/quote]

It is your prerogative to hate Bitcoin. It is our prerogative to use Bitcoin in our everyday lives. If you are trying to pull everyone down because you lost a lot from the Mt. Gox debacle. I am sorry but Bitcoin is not at fault. They used Bitcoin as a scapegoat and it shows. Nowadays Bitcoin worth 6,000 to 19,000 dollars per unit so if Bitcoin is at fault back then. How did Bitcoin made a huge comeback? It is because a lot of people realized that transaction malleability is just an invention of Mt. Gox.
[/quote]

no just saying that most of the people look at bitcoin as investment and nothing more.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: zhanghoqi5 on February 17, 2018, 01:03:15 PM
Don't be so negative.

It's actually not a value reserve, and you can use it as a value reserve.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: toresto on February 18, 2018, 08:56:47 AM
Don't be so negative.



I being objective not negative


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: ganlianshifu1 on February 18, 2018, 09:03:12 AM
Bitcoin is not issued by a specific monetary authority, which is generated by a large number of calculations based on a particular algorithm.

BTC itself is central bank and currency! And the number of BTC is certain!


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: toresto on February 18, 2018, 12:03:06 PM
Bitcoin is not issued by a specific monetary authority, which is generated by a large number of calculations based on a particular algorithm.

BTC itself is central bank and currency! And the number of BTC is certain!

did you just do "WIKI" on me?


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: gabmen on February 18, 2018, 01:28:40 PM
Bitcoin is not issued by a specific monetary authority, which is generated by a large number of calculations based on a particular algorithm.

BTC itself is central bank and currency! And the number of BTC is certain!

That is fiat's features and crypto is entirely different. That's why many believers are saying that the good thing about crypto is it gives them freedom from control by governments and banks. So crypto will be a currency different from how we see fiat today.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: shakhana on February 18, 2018, 01:34:23 PM
I think that in the near future we will really pay with the crypto currency. Therefore, it is better at this stage to fully study it and be ready for future events. Crypto currency is our future.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: toresto on February 18, 2018, 03:27:15 PM
I think that in the near future we will really pay with the crypto currency. Therefore, it is better at this stage to fully study it and be ready for future events. Crypto currency is our future.

most of the people look at crypto only as a way to invest and gain money and not as currency that what i trying to say with my post.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: toresto on February 19, 2018, 12:19:21 AM
I totally agree with OP.
I myself never view bitcoin or any crypto token as currency but that doesn't mean it can't be. It's just the time isn't right. It's too volatile to be use as daily life currency right now. Maybe things will get better after the price is more stabilize in the future, 20 years from now.

i really hope so :-) :)


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: Walrus1 on February 21, 2018, 02:05:37 AM
Well even when businesses accept it not many take advantage of it. Overstock.com said less than 1% of transaction were btc


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: Geoll29 on February 21, 2018, 02:17:42 AM
I understand that a currency is a thing we use to exchange for goods, products or services. Bitcoin has this characteristic. So I am considering bitcoin as a currency.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: toresto on February 21, 2018, 06:11:21 AM
North American Bitcoin Conference (TNABC) will be hosted in downtown Miami at the James L Knight Center, January 18-19. However, bitcoin proponents got some unfortunate news this week as the event organizers have announced they have stopped accepting bitcoin payments for conference tickets due to network fees and congestion.

I think it sums what I wrote

https://news.bitcoin.com/miami-bitcoin-conference-stops-accepting-bitcoin-due-to-fees-and-congestion/


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: KesoNie on February 21, 2018, 06:15:37 AM
I totally agree with OP.
I myself never view bitcoin or any crypto token as currency but that doesn't mean it can't be. It's just the time isn't right. It's too volatile to be use as daily life currency right now. Maybe things will get better after the price is more stabilize in the future, 20 years from now.

i really hope so :-) :)
We do have different interpretations about bitcoin, some are not believing bitcoin as a currency some are also looked at it as a currency but we have to respect each others opinions. Well for me, bitcoin is still not considered as a currency because the fact that we still have to exchange or convert it into fiat is the one reason that hinder bitcoin to be called as a currency.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: toresto on February 21, 2018, 06:27:51 AM
I totally agree with OP.
I myself never view bitcoin or any crypto token as currency but that doesn't mean it can't be. It's just the time isn't right. It's too volatile to be use as daily life currency right now. Maybe things will get better after the price is more stabilize in the future, 20 years from now.

i really hope so :-) :)
We do have different interpretations about bitcoin, some are not believing bitcoin as a currency some are also looked at it as a currency but we have to respect each others opinions. Well for me, bitcoin is still not considered as a currency because the fact that we still have to exchange or convert it into fiat is the one reason that hinder bitcoin to be called as a currency.

yup I probably still living in 2012 when we accepted bitcoin as payment based on trust and believes
but your words a correct  "we have to respect each other's opinions."


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: Walrus1 on March 02, 2018, 08:47:28 PM
Although it's grown we are still in the beginning stage of btc adoption. Yes, a lot of people think they will get rich but I still think btc is like any other new technology and will have many morphs along the way


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: bncbnc on March 02, 2018, 09:37:42 PM
Although it's grown we are still in the beginning stage of btc adoption. Yes, a lot of people think they will get rich but I still think btc is like any other new technology and will have many morphs along the way
In fact still there are such places where people still do not have any idea about bitcoin. I think in such i do not think that they will believe to invest their fiat for making money and they will even not believe on bitcoin as currency, but later on when they will comes to know about bitcoin and they they will see or come to know about in vesting their money there will start believing of online purposes.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: ekaterinastrelnikova505 on March 15, 2018, 02:05:50 PM
Purchasing from the hands of forums devoted to bitcoins can find a large number of owners in the crypto currency in your city. It is important to carefully monitor the reputation of the seller and ask what services you can receive funds.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: toresto on March 17, 2018, 05:29:32 AM
Although it's grown we are still in the beginning stage of btc adoption. Yes, a lot of people think they will get rich but I still think btc is like any other new technology and will have many morphs along the way
In fact still there are such places where people still do not have any idea about bitcoin. I think in such i do not think that they will believe to invest their fiat for making money and they will even not believe on bitcoin as currency, but later on when they will comes to know about bitcoin and they they will see or come to know about in vesting their money there will start believing of online purposes.

people treating bitcoin only as assets to invest most of the time, and not even looking at a digital way to buy goods :'(.


common let's buy some crypto and HODL and get rich.

I not hearing anymore no one talking how he bought ps4 with bitcoin, or paid for gas, or what do you think should I buy this plain ticket using bitcoin or Litecoin?

or anything like that, but I always hear:

"invest", "I bought bitcoin and hold it till it moon", "what do you think to sell?" "Ripple or Litecoin"

most of them not looking at the technology or the use but a pure DIgital asset to invest and to hold

I say let's change officially the name from cryptocurrency to cryptoassets and bury the word Currency away from Crypto for life.



Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: irinalevina456 on March 27, 2018, 05:29:58 PM
Do not be afraid to make an investment if you go for your money, then invest a small amount first.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: multikript888 on March 31, 2018, 10:05:15 PM
guys hello. tell who invests where? how do you earn money on crypto currency?


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency
Post by: rainezerr401 on March 31, 2018, 10:10:11 PM
I in the crypto world since 2011-2012
and for me as a tech guy more interest in the blockchain technology a special when Namecoin
was released and actually utilized the blockchain for DNS chain, from that point it changes the way
I look at bitcoin and truly understood the power of Blockchain and Cryptocurrency and the future of Bitcoin as currency
and not only investing without understanding what are the benefits and how and why
this sweet digital currency set out to change global finance and the world.


 I think people that in bitcoin after 2016-2017 and maybe 2015 will not understand this post they
look at bitcoin as an only investment and nothing more.
 just started with bitcoin and another crypto because they how the price jumped out and how you can turn "500$ to 4M"youtube videos.
and the tv and media that talked about that.

and people like me before the ICO's and SMART CONTRACTS
and all the exchanges look differently at bitcoin.

we believed that in the futures more bitcoin jobs and people will get paid in bitcoin
and you able to travel around to world with one currency
and pay in local shops

and why did we belived in that?

bitcoin at that time wasn't real for most of the people and the only way to accept
something as a payment or is to put some trust to this
without it, bitcoin is just software on a computer

remember that time most of the people

"what is bitcoin"


so with that believes with time people were willing to accept bitcoin
and invest in this "future money"


for us, bitcoin is  "Bitcoin is peer to peer payment network digital currency "
that will change global finance and the world.

and we going to be part of this huge thing(it's not only about money and investment that time more important was to raise the awareness about bitcoin)

but do bitcoin really doing this in 2018?
are people really using this as currency
are more and more local shops accepting bitcoin(physical store not over the internet)
do we get more job places and people got paid with bitcoins?
do new people look at bitcoin that way or only as a momentum to invest, and make 500$ to 4M?

and this is few of the things we believed at that time

no taxes
since no regulation, it's a coin for the people and minted by the people

failed: more and more countries trying to control and regulate Bitcoin and implement taxes since nowadays you mostly buy bitcoin and not
mining using your pc, we had only 2 options
mine it or
Damn you Mt.gox
and no taxes because of bitcoin was mined by us the people and no ASIC  that time

and bitcoin for the government wasn't real
and it wasn't an investment but some "idiots solving mats stuff with their computer" and as a reward getting some
"crypto Coins" that have no real use and not real money!
it's only in past serval years they change their mind
I talking about 2011-2012, not 2018!

I am not talking about a tax for buying a product with bitcoin but for buying bitcoin, back their how can you pay tax for bitcoin if you mined it with your computer
now you can't you go to exchange and must pay taxes for something that several years ago:

"what is bitcoin"
"it's not real why should I accept it"

fast and instant
you can send even small amount as 1$ instantly to anyone in the world and pay a super ridiculous low fee

failed:

new or average bitcoin user who is holding a few dollars can’t actually use bitcoin as money because the fee is higher than the money they’re holding. (we talking about few dollars not thousands)
if you received your 1 dollar with 100 of small transaction you will pay for the bytes and most likely it will cost you more.


more and more local shops accepting bitcoin

I remember  the first coffee shop in my town accepted bitcoin as
a payment that was for me like buying something for the first time with
my own money, felt like this is the moment all bitcoin
users was waited for

more and more people using bitcoin for daily use in real life
as more shops  accepting bitcoin more users start using them

failed: as the bitcoin network became heavy
and the price of bitcoin went super crazy up
fewer people actually using Bitcoin in daily life
and holding it as casino chip waiting to cash out
as a result of this fewer shops accepting bitcoin
because no one uses them but just holding as an
Investment.

and besides who wants to accept currency
when you just want to buy a coffee and wait
30 minutes to 2 weeks for a transaction
approved depending how much fee you paid

sure if you buying a car you willing to wait 2 days or even weeks
but not when you buying a Fre@king coffee.


Bitcoin is not that fast anymore every one waiting in a queue and competing with a transaction fee
to be the first to validated and there is tons of other that waiting exactly like you.


North American Bitcoin Conference (TNABC) 2018, bitcoin announced they have stopped accepting bitcoin payments for conference tickets due to network fees and congestion.
https://news.bitcoin.com/miami-bitcoin-conference-stops-accepting-bitcoin-due-to-fees-and-congestion/

and the most important of all

One World, One Currency
The supply and minting of a global currency not regulated by a central banking but decentralized,
no age sex or geolocation discrimination Currency for the world people and   minted by the world  people,

it's supposed to be world currency you could travel anywhere on in the world and buy in local shops
and not only over the net.

imagine a world where you can go to your shopping mall and buy an ice cream or ticket to the movie
and then go out with your girlfriend to eat in a restaurant.


Big Epic Failed: do you understand that people no more creating(mining)
this Currency unless you got sh**load of money to buy your self ASIC, and honestly I will not be surprised if we find out that huge corporation  or even some countries owning the majority of huge "ming farms"



So people not using bitcoin the way it should be only as "casino chips"
and this the manly problem with ICO'S scam and any other investment in cryptocurrency.



but there is always a bright side:

with the time Light Network
 going to speed things up, lower the fee's, and  more shops will get back to accepted bitcoin as payment
and maybe in the future, we really going to see more job places that pay their workers with bitcoin.

 but it doesn't solve the problem that people just holding their bitcoins, as "casino chips" and in the right moment cash out.


instead to understand what is actually bitcoin, and how can you use it for your daily life, and of course why.


Bitcoin is blockchain technology that created to be decentralized for to all people around the world and to use &  utilized for their needs to serve a specific  purpose.

And Bitcoin is a  "peer 2 peer payment network" and not only "peer 2 peer Crypto Stock Exchange  network"

and that  applies to all cryptocurrencies
 



Every people has different opinion and if you think that you will not become successful in cryptocurrency then its your freedom to choose what do you prefer but you can always look at the rich gentle man on you tube who earn their wealthy from cryptocurrency.


Title: Re: why I'm not believing in bitcoin anymore
Post by: sam2014 on March 31, 2018, 10:24:36 PM
even with Lightning Network people holding their coins and not really using them.

so Crypto  became trade market and not currency

if people not looking at bitcoin as currency in real life, we kinda losing the whole point of bitcoin here
I make use of crypto even as a currency,  so don't say that