why I'm not believing in bitcoin as currency

[toresto]

I in the crypto world since 2011-2012
and for me as a tech guy more interest in the blockchain technology a special when Namecoin
was released and actually utilized the blockchain for DNS chain, from that point it changes the way
I look at bitcoin and truly understood the power of Blockchain and Cryptocurrency and the future of Bitcoin as currency
and not only investing without understanding what are the benefits and how and why
this sweet digital currency set out to change global finance and the world.


 I think people that in bitcoin after 2016-2017 and maybe 2015 will not understand this post they
look at bitcoin as an only investment and nothing more.
 just started with bitcoin and another crypto because they how the price jumped out and how you can turn "500$ to 4M"youtube videos.
and the tv and media that talked about that.

and people like me before the ICO's and SMART CONTRACTS
and all the exchanges look differently at bitcoin.

we believed that in the futures more bitcoin jobs and people will get paid in bitcoin
and you able to travel around to world with one currency
and pay in local shops

and why did we belived in that?

bitcoin at that time wasn't real for most of the people and the only way to accept
something as a payment or is to put some trust to this
without it, bitcoin is just software on a computer

remember that time most of the people

"what is bitcoin"


so with that believes with time people were willing to accept bitcoin
and invest in this "future money"


for us, bitcoin is  "Bitcoin is peer to peer payment network digital currency "
that will change global finance and the world.

and we going to be part of this huge thing(it's not only about money and investment that time more important was to raise the awareness about bitcoin)

but do bitcoin really doing this in 2018?
are people really using this as currency
are more and more local shops accepting bitcoin(physical store not over the internet)
do we get more job places and people got paid with bitcoins?
do new people look at bitcoin that way or only as a momentum to invest, and make 500$ to 4M?

and this is few of the things we believed at that time

no taxes
since no regulation, it's a coin for the people and minted by the people

failed: more and more countries trying to control and regulate Bitcoin and implement taxes since nowadays you mostly buy bitcoin and not
mining using your pc, we had only 2 options
mine it or
Damn you Mt.gox
and no taxes because of bitcoin was mined by us the people and no ASIC  that time

and bitcoin for the government wasn't real
and it wasn't an investment but some "idiots solving mats stuff with their computer" and as a reward getting some
"crypto Coins" that have no real use and not real money!
it's only in past serval years they change their mind
I talking about 2011-2012, not 2018!

I am not talking about a tax for buying a product with bitcoin but for buying bitcoin, back their how can you pay tax for bitcoin if you mined it with your computer
now you can't you go to exchange and must pay taxes for something that several years ago:

"what is bitcoin"
"it's not real why should I accept it"

fast and instant
you can send even small amount as 1$ instantly to anyone in the world and pay a super ridiculous low fee

failed:

new or average bitcoin user who is holding a few dollars can’t actually use bitcoin as money because the fee is higher than the money they’re holding. (we talking about few dollars not thousands)
if you received your 1 dollar with 100 of small transaction you will pay for the bytes and most likely it will cost you more.


more and more local shops accepting bitcoin

I remember  the first coffee shop in my town accepted bitcoin as
a payment that was for me like buying something for the first time with
my own money, felt like this is the moment all bitcoin
users was waited for

more and more people using bitcoin for daily use in real life
as more shops  accepting bitcoin more users start using them

failed: as the bitcoin network became heavy
and the price of bitcoin went super crazy up
fewer people actually using Bitcoin in daily life
and holding it as casino chip waiting to cash out
as a result of this fewer shops accepting bitcoin
because no one uses them but just holding as an
Investment.

and besides who wants to accept currency
when you just want to buy a coffee and wait
30 minutes to 2 weeks for a transaction
approved depending how much fee you paid

sure if you buying a car you willing to wait 2 days or even weeks
but not when you buying a Fre@king coffee.


Bitcoin is not that fast anymore every one waiting in a queue and competing with a transaction fee
to be the first to validated and there is tons of other that waiting exactly like you.


North American Bitcoin Conference (TNABC) 2018, bitcoin announced they have stopped accepting bitcoin payments for conference tickets due to network fees and congestion.
https://news.bitcoin.com/miami-bitcoin-conference-stops-accepting-bitcoin-due-to-fees-and-congestion/

and the most important of all

One World, One Currency
The supply and minting of a global currency not regulated by a central banking but decentralized,
no age sex or geolocation discrimination Currency for the world people and   minted by the world  people,

it's supposed to be world currency you could travel anywhere on in the world and buy in local shops
and not only over the net.

imagine a world where you can go to your shopping mall and buy an ice cream or ticket to the movie
and then go out with your girlfriend to eat in a restaurant.


Big Epic Failed: do you understand that people no more creating(mining)
this Currency unless you got sh**load of money to buy your self ASIC, and honestly I will not be surprised if we find out that huge corporation  or even some countries owning the majority of huge "ming farms"



So people not using bitcoin the way it should be only as "casino chips"
and this the manly problem with ICO'S scam and any other investment in cryptocurrency.



but there is always a bright side:

with the time Light Network
 going to speed things up, lower the fee's, and  more shops will get back to accepted bitcoin as payment
and maybe in the future, we really going to see more job places that pay their workers with bitcoin.

 but it doesn't solve the problem that people just holding their bitcoins, as "casino chips" and in the right moment cash out.


instead to understand what is actually bitcoin, and how can you use it for your daily life, and of course why.


Bitcoin is blockchain technology that created to be decentralized for to all people around the world and to use &  utilized for their needs to serve a specific  purpose.

And Bitcoin is a  "peer 2 peer payment network" and not only "peer 2 peer Crypto Stock Exchange  network"

and that  applies to all cryptocurrencies
 

[1715457956]

1715457956

[1Referee]

You seem to ignore the developments going on with Lightning Network. The number of available nodes and open channels is increasing significantly, and that in this early 'test' stage already. If you aren't convinced, you could even try it for yourself to see how badass LN already is, and you'll understand how that will transform Bitcoin into a mainstream adoption magnet. If you aren't open to see the value in off-chain scaling, you'll never see the value in anything, and just remain acting bitter like you're doing right now. I can agree that LN won't directly make people spend their coins like there is no tomorrow, but it at least will give them the incentive they need - the fees and confirmation times won't form an obstacle anymore. The only thing left at this point is the mentality of the people that needs to change when it comes to spending their coins. It won't be easy to convince someone to spend his coins when the same coins will likely increase in value significantly later on. You can't blame people for that, but at the same time can't blame Bitcoin for that.

[jseverson]

It doesn't look like you've transacted with Bitcoin lately. I'd be surprised if you have to spend even 50 cents. Unless you're on an exchange of course, in which case it's hardly the network's fault.

Other than that, it's cool. We all have different reasons for believing, and if you feel Bitcoin is no longer that, then by all means make your exit. I still believe in Bitcoin as a currency. It's still in its infancy as far as the technology goes, and improvements like the Lightning Network are going to make it more and more viable.

[toresto]

even with Lightning Network people holding their coins and not really using them.

so Crypto  became trade market and not currency

if people not looking at bitcoin as currency in real life, we kinda losing the whole point of bitcoin here

[bug.lady]

Your points are valid but I wouldn't picture them as fails, rather as concerns, the concerns that I too share, there is no doubt about it.

In 2008 I worked for this small internet startup streaming music online. I thought I was experienced and I joked with friends, that it is never ever going to be possible to stream good quality video, because even with our music people were unable to listen due to slow connection everybody had at that time. Look what happened: infrastracture changed, software solutions changed, high compression was used, and now you can easily stream high quality 2 hour long movie!

The same will happen to bitcoin. Just give it time!

At least I hope so.

[toresto]

Your points are valid but I wouldn't picture them as fails, rather as concerns, the concerns that I too share, there is no doubt about it.

In 2008 I worked for this small internet startup streaming music online. I thought I was experienced and I joked with friends, that it is never ever going to be possible to stream good quality video, because even with our music people were unable to listen due to slow connection everybody had at that time. Look what happened: infrastracture changed, software solutions changed, high compression was used, and now you can easily stream high quality 2 hour long movie!

The same will happen to bitcoin. Just give it time!

At least I hope so.

I still hoping I just look at all the people that falling into ICO'S scam. and how they thread Cryptocurrency, only as a way to invest  and nothing more than that sure there are people that more educated about that and
thread crypto differently but the majority made crypto as "investment gratuity" and not seeing it as the world currency.

[zenrol28]

As bitcoin grows, so are the problems too. And we usually see the failures first rather than being inspired where bitcoin is now. Why not look at the bright side? If you don't want taxes then go where there no governments which is where is that? If you want fast and instant transactions then make it person to person, go send a dollar to someone who is in the other side of the world, buy a ticket and fly over to give him/her your dollar. Was that fast? NO. How much will it cost to give the dollar? hell so much.

[drakegon]

Don't be so negative about it. Bitcoin has put it's mark on the world. Look at us now, the only reasons we can talk about cryptocurrencies and a big change in the worlds financial system it's owed to Bitcoin.
It may not become the only crypto currency of the world, it may not have a low fees or fast transactions speed (for now), but it got us this far.
We are here, and we can hope for a better world in the future because of Bitcoin.

[toresto]

It doesn't look like you've transacted with Bitcoin lately. I'd be surprised if you have to spend even 50 cents.

off course if to send 50 cents I need to pay a fee of 3$, and even with LN you still waiting for alot till your transactions will
approved

[toresto]

Don't be so negative about it. Bitcoin has put it's mark on the world. Look at us now, the only reasons we can talk about cryptocurrencies and a big change in the worlds financial system it's owed to Bitcoin.
It may not become the only crypto currency of the world, it may not have a low fees or fast transactions speed (for now), but it got us this far.
We are here, and we can hope for a better world in the future because of Bitcoin.

I not negative about bitcoin I frustrated how and what people made from it

[hannezorf]

you guys really think that lightning is going to make it better in terms of costs and speed? Sounds like it get's more wired somehow.

[Red-Apple]

no taxes

this has never been a part of bitcoin although it is indirectly achieved. and it has not failed. bitcoin is still the same decentralized currency and if you use it as such there is no taxes. but when you treat it as an investment to make money then you also have to pay taxes on that money you made.

fast and instant

it is still fast and instant to send bitcoin. nothing has changed.
you are confusing high fees with speed. but they are two different things and you are right fees should not be high, i can agree that bitcoin has failed on that front thanks to a certain group of people and their fights.

more and more local shops accepting bitcoin
more and more people using bitcoin for daily use in real life
failed:

bullshit.
if anything this has grown a LOT in the past year alone. right now BitPay is reporting $110 million dollar monthly payments only through their service.
then look at Japan and the millions of merchants that started accepting bitcoin last year alone thanks to tax free bitcoin payments.

One World, One Currency
Big Epic Failed: do you understand that people no more creating(mining)

more bullshit.
first of all one world one currency doesn't even make sense.
second who do you think these miners are? aliens? there are thousands of people around the world who bought 1 or a couple of ASICs and are mining bitcoin with it. you can do it if you want too.

[toresto]

no taxes

this has never been a part of bitcoin although it is indirectly achieved. and it has not failed. bitcoin is still the same decentralized currency and if you use it as such there is no taxes. but when you treat it as an investment to make money then you also have to pay taxes on that money you made.

fast and instant

it is still fast and instant to send bitcoin. nothing has changed.
you are confusing high fees with speed. but they are two different things and you are right fees should not be high, i can agree that bitcoin has failed on that front thanks to a certain group of people and their fights.

more and more local shops accepting bitcoin
more and more people using bitcoin for daily use in real life
failed:

bullshit.
if anything this has grown a LOT in the past year alone. right now BitPay is reporting $110 million dollar monthly payments only through their service.
then look at Japan and the millions of merchants that started accepting bitcoin last year alone thanks to tax free bitcoin payments.

One World, One Currency
Big Epic Failed: do you understand that people no more creating(mining)

more bullshit.
first of all one world one currency doesn't even make sense.
second who do you think these miners are? aliens? there are thousands of people around the world who bought 1 or a couple of ASICs and are mining bitcoin with it. you can do it if you want too.

No taxes
we mined bitcoin with our pc before ASIC! so no taxes

and less physical shops accept bitcoin and that is a fact, not online store.
and many  of the online shops are scammers
you can't go to   shopping mall  and buy ice cream with bitcoin

in 2010 that was the idea


and bitcoin is not fast anymore every one waiting in a queue and competing with a transaction fee
to be the first to validated and there is tons of other that waiting exactly like you.

it's supposed to be world currency you could travel anywhere on in the world and buy in local shops
and not only over the net.

[Red-Apple]

we mined bitcoin with our pc before ASIC!

that is how PoW and because of it bitcoin works. with more adoption more people started mining, difficulty went up, new hardware called ASIC was produced to mine it and made things harder to mine with GPU/CPU.
that is the design from day 1!

and less physical shops accept bitcoin and that is a fact, not online store.

that is your guess not a fact.

you can't go to   shopping mall  and buy ice cream with bitcoin
in 2010 that was the idea

no it never was.
the idea was to create a "peer to peer digital cash". in other words a decentralized payment system that is resistant to any kind of censorship. and bitcoin still has that going.

as i said above the only thing that is changed is the fees and hopefully that won't last long either.

and bitcoin is not fast anymore every one waiting in a queue and competing with a transaction fee
to be the first to validated and there is tons of other that waiting exactly like you.

that is also by design.
the fees went up too high to an unacceptable levels because the adoption grew while we didn't have any block size increase and nobody was using the capacity increase solution which is SegWit.
but as i said above this is hopefully going to be over soon as the SegWit adoption grows more and also eventually with second layer solution which is the only way to move forward.

[marjil]

It's fascinating to see that we have an OP who has raised some very important concerns on the very essense of bitcoin only for some other forum members to come along and shoot him down without even providing any real counter arguments. Just shows what lack of understanding there is.

Isn't it true that bitcoin has become more a store of wealth than a currency that it was intended for? If you don't appreciate this then you are not living in the real world. It doesn't mean bitcoin does not have a use or that it does not have value, it just means the use of bitcoin has changed. Some people just don't want to understand.

[toresto]

we mined bitcoin with our pc before ASIC!

that is how PoW and because of it bitcoin works. with more adoption more people started mining, difficulty went up, new hardware called ASIC was produced to mine it and made things harder to mine with GPU/CPU.
that is the design from day 1!

and less physical shops accept bitcoin and that is a fact, not online store.

that is your guess not a fact.

you can't go to   shopping mall  and buy ice cream with bitcoin
in 2010 that was the idea

no it never was.
the idea was to create a "peer to peer digital cash". in other words a decentralized payment system that is resistant to any kind of censorship. and bitcoin still has that going.

as i said above the only thing that is changed is the fees and hopefully that won't last long either.

and bitcoin is not fast anymore every one waiting in a queue and competing with a transaction fee
to be the first to validated and there is tons of other that waiting exactly like you.

that is also by design.
the fees went up too high to an unacceptable levels because the adoption grew while we didn't have any block size increase and nobody was using the capacity increase solution which is SegWit.
but as i said above this is hopefully going to be over soon as the SegWit adoption grows more and also eventually with second layer solution which is the only way to move forward.

the point is people not looking at bitcoin as MONEY!!! but only a way to invest!

[biboy]

Main reason why you get used into bitcoin, because you want to invest for you to get rich and believing that everything is good and normal.

Well, we don't blame people for not believing in it, they maybe not the type of person who are being skeptical of it as an investment since no one knows what will happen in the future, no guarantees and no assurance so they are just being conservative with their money.

But for me, you are losing some part of your life since you are failing to explore things out, you are too lazy to see whats in it and why a lot of people are believing it and why some are becoming rich right? Its really difficult for a lot of people to see the advantage of it, it took time but when we really want to change our way of life they we need to invest at least some of our time.

[toresto]

it just means the use of bitcoin has changed. Some people just don't want to understand.

this exactly what I trying to say,

if people continue thread crypto as an investment and not "peer 2 peer cash" or money
we losing the whole point here and with time more and more people doing this!

in 2012 the only question that people asked me was
"what is bitcoin?"

today only one:

"should I invest or not?"

[Yesolo]

I didn't believe in Bitcoin as a global currency and I do not. Why? Because each time you are buying an ice-cream the merchant MUST pay taxes. Because we are still living in a world splited by countries with thier own politics, economy, interests and so on. And if a government doesn't control the currency used in its country that means that there is no government in this country.

And yes, I think that Bitcoin is a perfect investment... for the next couple of years

[swissgang]

I don't believe in as a digital cash but I believe in as a store of value, it is actually not a store of value, but you may use it as a store of value. But it will not fail because of other tokens' stupidity.