Bitcoin Forum

Hey, I was just too lazy to enter the "forum" part in the bitcoin forums address and went -> bitcoin.org, clicked on forums there. Seems like someone replaced the link to the forums with a link to a google search for bitcoin forums. I suggest someone with write permissions on the main page should change this back.

thank you and have a nice evening

I just noticed this as well.. its very strange.

This change is intentional, as part of the effort to make the current forums less official.

I heard they were moving the forums to the weusecoins domain to seperate the user forums from the official page because reporters were quoting random bs from the forums as official announcements from the bitcoin developers

Much as I like this forum I think the StackExchange site (link in my sig) will be much more useful, assuming we can get it off the ground. Too much politics, advertising, scamming and slander here; doesn't put the best spin on bitcoin unfortunately.

We had implemented a "smite/like" button or something like that a few months back but it was quickly disabled for some reason.

A "points" system telling us who to listen to would be much better than the current system (post count).

All the whackos rack up massive post counts overnight anyways by making 50+ posts per day. (Yes, some people post that much!)

Because nobody knows why they are getting downvoted.

agree with the switch but the google link is dumb. and an unannounced google link without even a mod sticky or something is even dumber.

Huh? The whole point is that we're no longer affiliated with Bitcoin.org. Why would they have us post a sticky?

The google link will AFAIK be removed as well, in time. This is just an intermediate solution so that people won't lose track of the forums entirely until they have been relocated to a new domain.

Nothing about Bitcoin is official. Even the Satoshi client software is "original" rather than "official".

The google link on the bitcoin.org homepage is/was my idea.

"The One True Forums" for bitcoin doesn't make sense to me-- the whole point of bitcoin is to be decentralized. I sincerely believe that open and free competition makes everything better, and I hope that more places to discuss bitcoin pop up and compete to be the best.

In the future, I'd like most of the links on the bitcoin.org home page to be google searches, including the "download bitcoin" links (I think we'll see some great new bitcoin clients released over the next six months or so).

One would hope nobody will be successful in maliciously manipulating google rankings.

Again, the google index can be manipulated.

I am not sure what is the best solution to the problem will be.

The best solution is to leave it. The developers don't want bitcoins name sullied by this, in my opinion,  somewhat awful forum.

I don't think this is such a great idea.  Like others have mentioned, page rankings can be manipulated.  Also, Google itself is massively centralized; I'm not sure how making all the links point to Google is supposed to decentralize things.

It's possible to go overboard with wanting to decentralize.  I think it's better to just let bitcoin.org be associated with "the Satoshi client".  Remember bittorrent.com?  Does anyone actually use "the Cohen client" anymore?  Eventually bitcoin.org will matter a lot less, because like Bittorrent, Bitcoin will just be thought of as part of the internet.

In the case of the forum, the Google link doesn't do enough to dissociate it.  There's already a link to the wiki, which links to the forum, and can be edited to link to any number of additional forums.  That should be good enough.

Why would you link to google searches? Where is this common practice?

If I click a link that says "Bitcoin Clients" I expect to get a list of clients, not get redirected to a search. if I wanted to go to google and search for "bitcoin clients" I would have done so.

Just remove the forum link altogether or something, the unannounced google search link is bizarre and feels passive aggressive.

I just went ahead and did this:

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Forums

The "Forum" link on the front page of the wiki now points there, and I listed all the Bitcoin general discussion sites I could think of.

I'm fine with the Google search.  Seems appropriate.

I think the Wiki page with Forums links is a better idea, nice thinking Chris!

I'm in FULL support of this change.  More activity on bitcoinforums.net would be very welcome.   ;)

I also like this idea :)

sorry Gavin - this is a terrible idea.

yes:  "the whole point of bitcoin is to be decentralized."  agreed.

but the point of effective dissemination of information is centralization.  that's why there are books.  libraries.  and the informational requirements to grow the project are a completely different animal than the project itself.  surely you must agree with that?

when people want Bitcoin-related software, vendor information, best-practice information, etc., they need somewhere to go.  it needs to be stable and reliable.  and it needs to have both a high level of trust and a clear, strong link to the core of the project.

bitcoin.org is, and has been, all of those things.  and should rightfully remain so.

i understand that the forums are somewhat... embarrassing, at times.  but it's pretty easy to fix - and would require much less hands-on moderation than you are currently committing to. 

and it certainly would not require shattering the informational cohesion of the project, as this google link does.

i've mentioned the brilliance of the self-moderating system at DailyKos before; and for a burgeoning community like this one, it would perform very well.  if you'd like to discuss it at length, i'd be happy to - PM me.  it would really not be terribly difficult to smooth the forums out - and have the users themselves do it for you.

give this some thought please.

More than embarrassing.  Blatantly illegal stuff creates real legal risk for the people developing bitcoin software, which may or may not matter to the people who are not taking those risks.


URL to DailyKos-like software for download?

they've rolled their own moderation system.

try the FAQ section:

http://www.dkosopedia.com/wiki/DailyKos_FAQ

read 5.4 through 5.5.7

in practice it works unbelievably well.  i've been on DK for many years (along with many other sites), and i've never encountered a system as effective, as just, and as well-integrated to the needs of what is one of the heaviest-trolled sites on the 'net.

i'd venture to say that, with some tweaks (all forums are different), the Bitcoin forums could be 95% troll-free in two or three weeks - and you could cut the number of mods, and the time they spend modding, in half.

I like this too other than the fact that this forum is labeled "Bitcoin Forum". That alone makes it sound like it's the official one.

It reminds me of how we call our moon 'The Moon', even though there are millions of other moons.

This forum maybe needs some kind of unique name instead.

Now it just looks like bitcoin is a 20% google project...

The link should go to the wiki page that lists different bitcoin related forums.

After looking at that URL, my question remains unanswered.  One must assume it is not available for download, which implies programmers would need to create one from scratch -- a decidedly non-trivial task that could take months to complete.

Not a realistic answer, unless you are volunteering a team of programmers, or paying a bounty or something?

Yeah, I didn't know what to do about that, so I just left it as-is.  We could call this place "The Sirius Forum" (heh).  It would fit with "The Satoshi Client".

i'm a network designer, not a programmer - but it doesn't appear that complicated.

you have already tried out giving users the ability to uprate and downrate comments - so that exists in the forum software, yes?  the only thing that needs to be changed there is limiting those who can downrate a comment to users who have attained 'trusted user' status, by gaining sufficient uprates from other users.  anybody can uprate a comment, but only trusted users can downrate one.

and the moderators already have the ability to hide/delete comments.  the change needed there is to make hiding/deleting automatic, after some pre-determined number of downrates by trusted users.

those two things are all that's needed for the community to essentially police itself - and they will.

the rest is gilding the lily:  limiting the number of downrates a TU can issue in a day, or requiring a steady posting/uprate history to maintain TU status if it seems appropriate.

and then the mods can pretty much limit their attention and responses to illegal (as you point out) content, etc., by concentrating on looking at the origin posts of threads, and stolen or obscene posted material which doesn't get downrated.

i guess all i can say is - it works.

EDIT...

* sigh * but maybe not here.  i've been trying to do some more objective reading.

perhaps the project is better served by removing everything but tech, merchant lists, and how-to's, from forum.bitcoin,org.  it is, as has been noted on the SourceForge archive, pretty much a political cesspool.

it'd be nice to save it, if possible...

< shrug >  ...but i'm glad it's not my call.

Or even the "Original Bitcoin Forum". Anyway, whatever Sirius decides to do is OK.

Yes it can. Oh yes IT CAN! Just search Michael Pascazi for an example ::)

Much as I like the StackExchange site, there's no way in hell I'm clicking on a bit.ly address from a bitcoin forum.

You just need to add a +(plus sign) at the end of any bit.ly link and you can preview it before jumping on it ;)

In case you're not signed up already: http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/30763/bitcoin-crypto-currency
See also: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=29545.0

Please don't change a link to download executable code to a google link. It's pretty easy to get adware/malware in the top # google hits (this is not a theoretical attack; it happened to for example, daemon tools multiple times)

If you are going to link multiple clients, which is a good idea, just offer some alternatives that you know and trust.

For forums, this is arguably less of an issue, though I still think that not posting a forum link at all is better than posting a google search. People need no help searching on google :) (and you're still encouraging Google as the "one true bitcoin search engine" and the forum as the "one true bitcoin community format")

Maybe make a page "bitcoin communities" on the Wiki, and link there. Though you'd still be encouraging the one true bitcoin wiki, but heh...

I agree; the download links should always be only to the original client.

Consider; BitTorrent doesn't link to Azureus or µTorrent!