Bitcoin Forum

As probably most people on this forum, I am fairly active in investing and trading in cryptocurrencies. I had some luck and made a little money with it, but I am now concerned to move some of the gains back to fiat.

In particular, I am working for a large, global bank (which shall remain unnamed for now). They are in the process of setting up new guidelines to deal with clients that engage in cryptocurrency markets. For instance, they are monitoring money inflow from cryptoexchanges and would reject any money that comes from non-approved exchanges (in particular those that don't have strong KYC procedures). Furthermore, for larger amounts, they would even require some proof how the gain was obtained.

A couple of critical items I want to raise for discussion:

1. If somebody has experienced such complications with their banks already, it would be interesting to hear about their stories
2. If more and more banks adapt similar measures (or even stricter ones, like some credit card companies disallowing financing of cryptos all together), what do you think the implications on the market place will be? For instance, do you think exchange without KYC's will suffer?
3. Do you think this could lead to "ICO heavens" where only ICO's will have a chance to survive that undergo a stringent background check that would be acceptable for banks?

I do understand the banks concern to ensure that there is no money laundering or criminal financing involved, but such restrictive, strict measures could have a significant impact on the entire cryptocurrency market. In a doomsday scenario, I could even imagine banks globally to impose similar restrictions worldwide, and thus even killing the entire cryptomarket. The fact that more and more internet shops, service providers, or even brick-and-mortar shops might accept cryptocurrencies does not really solve the problem, as these shops would be forced by THEIR banks to impose stricter measures on their clients. Thus the problem remains, but would be shifted along the chain.  Do you think such a scenario is plausible?

First I do not know why it is a problem to transfer some of your profit to fiat,you do not want to pay tax or your crypto exchange does not have KYC?

I think that banks are perhaps the most powerful institutions in the world,and if they want it is very easy for them to strike on cryptocurrency very hard.Imagine that all or most of worlds banks say that buying/selling cryptocurrency becomes illegal,it means no direct money flow from banks to exchanges and vice versa.People would have to find another way to to buy/sell crypto,so only to trade in person or maybe on ATMs.

So far banks still evaluate situation what to do with BTC and cryptocurrency in general,we see some news that they are not still seriously concerned(not losing to much profit I suppose),but if profits star to go down and Lightning Network really improve scalability and make transaction fast&cheap there will be some reaction from banks for sure.

Regarding ICO I do not have any opinion how would such scenario reflected on this kind of business,but in general they will also be affected if banks are set completely negative toward cryptocurrency.

I am still heavily invested in cryptos, but if wanted to move money back to fiat, there would be problems. It's not about taxes at all. It's all about the AML policies of banks. For instance, assume I have my main account with Coinbase. They have strong enough KYC to be on the banks "approved list". Let's assume I wanted to withdraw a few hundred thousand USD.

1. If I transfer the amount all at once (assume for the moment Coinbase does not have any restrictions), this inflow in my bank would raise red flags: unusually large amount from a crypto exchange. The bank's compliance team would then require to see some evidence how such a large amount was obtained or generated. In my case. I am dealing with a multitude of exchanges and a large portfolio of crytos and I would not be able to trace back where exactly the gains would be coming from.

2. If I do it piecemeal, it's even worse. After a few smaller transactions from a cryptoexchange, the banks alarm AML alarm bells will definitely go off. And very possibly the account would be frozen immediately.

As for your other points, although banks can't declare cryptos illegal, if all banks would stop any crypto-related in / outflows, cryptos would surely die. As long as cryptos are not BROADLY accepted as money (including, for instance, in your local grocery store; or at your car dealer; etc.), they will have to be changed in fiat at some point. But if no banks accept the inflow of such fiat generated by cryptos, there would be no possibility to get to that fiat money for anyone.

The constraints above I have described, are already reality at some of the largest, global banks. So this is not just what might happen, but what is happening. I know that my bank has cancelled client accounts that were not able to provide the background to how they made the gains, even though it might have been completely legal. And a colleague of mine at another bank had to stop a very lucrative trading strategy he was running as the frequent money flows in and out raised too many red AML flags at his bank.

There are many other ways to move bitcoins to fiat, you do not have to work through your Bank. {Do some research and ask

the right questions and you will find the answer} A lot of these methods are not exactly legal, so you should be aware of that.

In most countries there are more than one group of Banks. Some are even "Bitcoin-friendly"  ::) ... I have yet to see one

Bank having total dominance in one specific country. They tried this in Australia and they were taken to court for

uncompetitive behaviour and the people won.  ;)

I am not interested in the "easy" route of illegal methods. And yes, some banks are bitcoin friendly. But the details and nuances here are important. My bank has also no issues accepting even large sums gained from cryptos. It is even know on the street as one of the more liberal banks with regards to ctyptos. I know of one case where somebody invested a few thousand USD in Monero at an early stage, and pulled out a few million. The bank questioned the origin of the money, and this person was able to show the flows from bank to exchange into ripple and bank. So all was OK.

But this "clean" flow is an exception. I have move my funds from one crypto into others and back, including some ICO's etc. There is no chance I would be able to provide a detailed trace to prove that I obtained my gains through legal means and unrelated to any AML.

With regards to the Australian Banks, I don't think it went to court. Do you have a reference?

I know NAB, ANZ, CBA and Westpac were in the spot light  :

https://www.smh.com.au/business/bitcoin-tensions-rise-as-investors-claim-banks-freezing-their-accounts-20171229-p4yy3z.html
 (https://www.smh.com.au/business/bitcoin-tensions-rise-as-investors-claim-banks-freezing-their-accounts-20171229-p4yy3z.html)

And in there, the critical statement is the following:

“Where we cannot verify the origin of transfers we may act to ensure we comply with Australia’s anti money laundering obligations"

Again outlining the challenge that if somebody made large gains in cryptos over time, but cannot provide a detailed trace, they would have troubles getting to the money.

flats is near to expire because bitcoin is gaining more fan following and investors are rushing toward bitcoin to make it the global coin of the world and i am sure banks will also exit when bitcoin will be implemented as currency and people are now really satisfied by using bitcoin,

I have not experienced such problems with the Bank. But I have friends from other countries who have been facing exchange problems lately. Those exchanges that work with Fiat constantly limit the list of countries to which Fiat can be sent after the exchange. They are motivated by the requirement of KYC.

it does not matter if you return to fiat that your personal choice, you play in cryptocurrency chances are not very know trick how to play it and if I say the highest income that I get from cryptocurrency while for fiat very little because the movement up and the turunya only little difference can not as much as cryptocurrency. chances are you need to learn more deeply how to play cryptocurrency experience is the best teacher.

There is no as such complication that I have experienced recently however I will skip to other discussion points of your where I can add something. Like you said exchangers without KYC's will suffer or not. Well, I believe they will suffer in the future a lot because day by day the KYC and KYS as well getting very strict. In my country the exchangers which are not collecting the KYC of their customers are themselves getting under surveillance because regulatory bodies think that they are making some spurious action which may disturb the nation economy somewhat.

Pointing towards the next point, "ICO heavens" well I believe it has to undergo vigorous change rather than smooth implementation by the banks. These projects are already getting funds off the chart and banks may not be able to tolerate it if they fail in the ICO project.

Good for you. Not asking for any details, but can you confirm that your inflows (i.e. from the crypto-gains translated into fiat to your bank account) have been "abnormal"? An example to illustate what I mean by that:

1) Assume you make USD 10'000 per month as a salary. If every few months you deposit 2k or 3k as a result of your gains, no bank would really care much.

2) However, if you started to deposit USD 15'000 every second week, or a lump some of say USD 1m from a crypto exchange, that would certainly trigger the alarm bells at many banks.

The second scenario is what I would label "abnormal" from a banks compliance perspective. And I would be surprised if a reputable bank would not react in such as case and demand some proof.

I do believe that those restrictions are bad for the society, those things are need to get us a secure transactions and for the criminals to be hard to be able to get their money from wrong doings.

While a bank could reject you it doesn't seem like that would be in their best interest at all. After all they are trying to get customers for their bank and if you are prominent and have lots of money will they are doing themselves a disservice. We have seen what lengths banks will go to with the HSBC cartel fiasco so lets not kid ourselves and say they won't handle some tainted money.

Not trying to defend banks, but I would think ensuring that no money laundering takes place on their watch is more important for them than keeping individual customers. And I am not talking here about the extremes, like super-ultra-high-net-worth customers, but the affluent crypto investor in general, having struck some "gold. For these normal affluent crypto investors who made perhaps even a few million, the bank would not do any special favors. If we would be starting to talk about 1bn or more ... then that would be another case all together.

Kyc requirement is not a big deal for most people, and if the money made is includes no illegal activity, then there is no difference as a income from others. Banks will not do that, this is a big loss for them

I will talk about this end of your post and I believe such restrictions would propel stakeholders in crypto business to buckle up in their trade. Stakeholders like exchangers because that is actually where it starts from.

Then, this could bring in proper regulations from the government. For me, bank restrictions is good for a start.

But what you are stating is not reality. Many banks (particularly global operating banks) would be required to take a very conservative approach. If you, as a client, can't prove the source of your (unusual and unusually high) income, then they would be forced to prevent the deposit, or cancel your account all together. And with moving in and out of crypto currencies, the proof of legitimacy is becoming a very difficult task.

To summarize it all, they are preventing us from making money.  ;D
No difference with using fiat.
I heard a lot about this. But since I have never gone to a larger scale of withdrawal then I haven't experienced it.
But I am also worrying and that is why I am reading threads like this. There will always be a time that we will end up getting bored or just want to feel the profit and then rest and I want that to be clean without having any issues, banks or any other means.

Now, this banks. It will always be the best way to get that large amount and they could stop anything you want to get through them without you explaining where you get it but there is this limit.
Will it work if I do it in different banks and not overflow the limit or they are all connected somehow?

The new era of cashless society yeah , still I'm a little bit doubt about this due how a lot of people keep thinking traditionally and won't welcome new things, new technology like electronic money, it would takes a long time . Anyway I personally haven't experience a strict service from the banks even they know about how I involve in crypto business.

this is the most obvious fud attempt I have ever seen on this forum. :D if you want to share some insight, well please do but saying that you made some money but you will probably exchange it back to fiat it's like calling to go short from your side haha

Hi,

I don't really think that the issue for banks is about money laundering. Because this happens in some countries and large, worldwide banks have no issues being involved, as long as they make profit. I rather think that they see bitcoin as a threat.

I don't really have a solution to offer, but I would say that it is good for cryptos... it means we are on the right tracks, important enough now for traditionnal financial institutions to react.

Not so bad for a geeky tool without any future! ;)

I am not one for swearing, but you, sir, are a fucking idiot!

Have you ever seen the internal policies of banks as they relate to their clients dealing in crypto currencies? I have. And what I posted is a paraphrased, shortened version of what some of the large globally operating banks (US, European and Asian banks) have as their policy right now. These banks don't see bitcoin as anything more than a toy for gambling and to hide illegal activities, certainly not as threat  (the blockchain related technologies are quite another matter though). The main concern for them is being caught up in any AML and money laundering scandal.

I think it would be possible to use several banks right now, but only because there is not yet a regulatory requirement to report cash flows from crypto-exchanges. However, I would think if you just opened a few accounts and started to deposit money from crypto-exchanges without having any other regular flows into those accounts, or a history with the bank, then that would equally raise suspicion.

It is seems nearly impossible to move large sums from crypto-exchanges back to bank account(s) without raising any questions.

I wonder how crypto-day traders deal with this problem. They MUST move money back to fiat, to live on. And I know from my bank, they would not accept clients who do day trading in crypto, again, because it's difficult to ensure compliance with money laundering laws.

Some of the methods are not "illegal" and I will take an example. I buy 50 items at a reduced prices from a Bitcoin merchant

and sell it for Fiat currencies. If you bargained for a good discount for bulk purchases, you might even make a profit. You

could also pay for a friends dinner at a merchant that accepts Bitcoin and that person can give you the cash. These are

simple examples, but they are ways to get around Banks. {This might be a much slower process, but you will never be

stuck with those bitcoins, because the Banks wants to sabotage Bitcoin.} The same goes for the Banks that sabotaged Bitcoin

by not allowing people to buy bitcoins with their credit card. I use the credit card to buy something else and sell that item

for cash and I buy the bitcoins. Problem solved. {There is always a way, not the easiest... but it is still possible}  ::)

It's not about not paying taxes for fiat, the bank refuses to take the money once it realizes that you earned it from crypto trading, and you can't really pay taxes without declaring that you received the funds from crypto trading.
You can't really bypass it and to transfer the funds into your local banks, the only way you can do that is by doing it illegal( transferring the funds into cash, and slowly use the cash, you can't really pay taxes on bitcoin, and that's the big problem).
Banks won't take the chance as they can't really verify that you weren't involved in money laundering.

I see now where we have the disconnect. I am not talking here about amounts that can be used up on an occasional dinner, but amounts with which to finance your life (i.e. as a regular, decent income) or as a large lump sump.

Take the later, and let's make this concrete. Assume you were lucky enough to have bought sufficient BTC years ago, so that you have now the equivalent of USD 10m sitting in your Coinbase account. You decide that this is more than enough to live on and quit your job. You still will need to use cash (or fiat) to pay the rent, continue shopping where you have been shopping so far and at shops that don't (yet) accept crypto currencies, or you might decide that you want to buy yourself now that Lambo you were dreaming about. What now? The Lambo dealer might only accept hard currency, and not bitcoin. Your landlord, grocery store, tailor etc. the same.

My guess is, you will not be able to get to your money without involving a bank or some finance institution. And unless they are of shoddy character, and unless they are already used to seeing millions being moved in and out of your account for other legitimate reasons, such transactions will raise alarm bells.

Also, the example of the credit card to get cash with which to purchase BTC is fine, except you did not say how you move the cash to an exchange to buy BTC. Ok, for small sums you could do a physical transaction at a local meet-up. But larger sums, and regularly? Again, I don't think there is currently a way to circumvent banks. Either way, moving money INTO the cryptomarket is less problematic. Moving it out again, however, still is.

I've never had issues with my bank before. And I've only cashed out through banks. My cheap ass refuse to pay the fee when cashing out via other methods (there are no fees when cashing out through banks). I've never bought BTC using money from the bank though, that might have been different.

In some countries the bank accounts were frozen because of large amount of money transferred into their accounts from the exchange.But in that case people can use localbitcoin where the money transferred from an individual account to our so there is no problem I think.
The regulation will give the solution for these kind of problem so never transfer big amounts until the crypto will be regulated in your country.

Use your common sense and be discrete.

Set up several new current accounts to receive fiat money that you are withdrawing from the exchanges. (Don't use your main current account because you don't want to put that at risk).

Then withdraw about $500 worth a week till you have withdrawn all your money. The key is to not trigger the bank's algorithms, so you need a lot of patience.

Using the example above of wanting to move USD 10m out of crypto into fiat:

With your strategy it takes 20'000 weeks or about 384 years to withdraw USD 10m! Even if you set up 10 accounts and withdrew USD 5000 per week, this strategy takes almost 40 years to get the money out.

I do not believe that such money is earned honestly. Therefore, people are used to deceive the state. There are always black exchangers. You can exchange bitcoins for cash without using a Bank account. There are online exchangers that make the translation from private individuals. Such a lot of options. Everyone chooses for themselves is acceptable.

Woww if you want to withdraw that much amount into your fiat account surely you will be in a risk.So wait for few more years when you can spend crypto as a direct mode of payment,if you can't wai then you will lose all your money or you have to pay taxes upto 40%.

Yeah, i wish I had that much. Just trying to illustrate a challenge.

And it's really not about the taxes, but the fact that if somebody made really such amounts they are not able to get it out.

Fair enough question to ask, OP, even if you're getting quite the blowback on your questions, it's just that I suspect people here feel your intentions aren't as innocent as you present them, so you'll accept the tone of responses.

I don't have much experience of my own to be able to give more than an educated guess at what this future relationships banks will have with cryptos. On one hand, you've got banks that seem to be very keen at least with blockchain tech and Bitcoin as an investment tool - probably not fully realising or understanding that Bitcoin threatens their very existence. On the other, as you note, KYC/AML processes are tightening, not easing up - and this trend will be happening whether we like it or not.

It is important I think to remember that banks are always interested only in self preservation, and maintaining their relevance to state economy and the reliance of money on banks. So we might note that this behaviour is partially motivated by the derisking strategies of banks, as well as their eagerness to comply with national/regional on their ends... sort of making amends for their roles in last decade's financial crisis. In other words, they're simply doing this to cover their own asses, not so much to restrict crypto.

The problem with large amounts are more complex. Even if you found a way to get past those Banks, you still need to get it

past the tax collector.  ::) They will audit you and then you will have to explain those big purchases. {If you can even buy

that with large amounts of cash these days} You are f@cked either way, no matter what you do. I would still do it my way,

but I would do it like you would be eating an Elephant.... small pieces, day by day.  ;)

There are things that could interfere with those who are wanting to transfer their value of crypto into fiat currency.
It all depends on the country in which you reside in to be honest.
I am talking about the tax implications that the government can impose upon you once you do transfer the crypto into their own local currency.
Along with many other things that the banks can nail on you since now you have a paper trail with those transactions so to track you down.
Obviously your bank has all your personal information and they do work with the government when it comes to claiming the revenue an individual has accummulated in relation to their annual income.

AIM/AOL blocked the blockchain.info domain which prevented me from receiving 2FA emails to login to my blockchain wallet. This was maybe 6 months ago? I don't know if AOL is owned by banks but there could be emerging anti bitcoin and anti crypto measures silently being tested and implemented. I know my state in the USA is also pushing anti crypto currency legislation quietly.

I wouldn't mind if crypto exchanges operated out of servers hosted in international waters or neutral legal territory which protected them from the demands of foreign nations, similar to what thepiratebay and others have done in the past. I think that might be too dangerous to pursue. But for countries like russia which are being hit with economic sanctions, they might have the influence and chutzpah to make something like that happen. It could be profitable enough to be cost effective.

first of all, why bother in transacting with banks? once you have transferred bitcoin into fiats using banks, your account is no longer anonymous, they can even trace your online transaction then forward you to government tax departments, why bother doing business with banks when there are blockhains and online wallet that you can convert it anonymously. banks and cryptos does not work together, they never will. if you are planning to transfer small amounts using banks, it is useless because it will be taxed, if you want huge amount to be transferred, you will be convicted of money laundering or hoarding, they will question you where did you get all that money, then you will be taxed, again.

In our country, some banks already act negatively about cryptocurrencies. There have been some news on social media circulating about some people getting their accounts close because they are involved in cryptocurrency trading. If they trace your account sending and receiving large amount of money but below the amount that will alert AMLA, they would then ask the account holder to show some proof where he got his money and if he will say about bitcoin, they would close the account of that holder and say it is not allowed but when they are ask about that rule, they cannot show anything. The account holder then ask the central bank about it and they said that there is no particular rule about cryptocurrencies being illegal. Our central bank are even granting licences to some companies involved in cryptocurrency so it just shows that some banks are against it because it is a threat to them.

Yes, you are right why we should bother our self about transferring fiat to the bank through bitcoin cryptocurrency that we all know banks and crypto will not work together. Banks hate crypto because they think that cryptos as there big competitive when it comes money saving or bypass money without knowing by our governments or not traceable to them. Here our country we are not involving banks to claim our fiat from bitcoin through blockchain wallet apps we convert bitcoin into fiat and we may claim any remittances, by claiming our fiat through remittance that the time we pay the tax.

Actually nothing can be said seriously about a currency which is still in beta and which is a gambling currency. ;)

Fiat and banks are outdated, cryptocurrency is the future to say in simple terms. The former two have ruled the world and eaten people's money in the form of fees and charges, banks acted as if they are securing money and people but really that didn't happen, instead banks secured fiat and made people unsecured. Crypto currency have changed this trend and have or would abolish brokers or agents to eat people money and give out what people deserve directly.

In our country we have local digital wallet wherein it is accredited by the central bank, but in order to have an account you need to verify first your identity, like sending government ID,
There is no limit on how much you put there but when it comes to withdrawal there is a limit on the first time you withdraw, and it's get higher the next time you withdraw again, but there is a total limit of amount to withdraw within a month because that are making sure that their customers won't be arrested because of money laundering.

I have future with cryptos and this digital wallet of our's since I can also connect any wallet that has connection to BTC,....  and I can withdraw my money on any outlet not just bank.

And it is better to withdraw from outlets or remittance than banks because they are irratiting by the question of what is your source of income.

Traditional banks usually don't like Bitcoin and in my country few of them have already tried to stop accepting money from exchanges or to exchanges accounts (like if the exchange was depositing money on my bank's account or if I was sending money to the exchange's bank account).

Then the exchange filled a suit against the bank(s) and one or few of them had to start accepting money from/to this exchange again. But the process took some time to finish and I'm not sure if it is the final justice's decision yet.

I believe without giving your personal informations to the local exchanges when converting the money to fiat you won't be able to deal with Crypto-Currency. While the money is on the internet in BTCs everything is fine, you can continue anonymous, but once it goes to real world the bureaucracy starts and there isn't much to do about it. The market won't suffer at all because there will be always gaps, mechanisms used by whales, big investors to avoid some bureaucracy. Exchanges might suffer a bit, but they can move their businesses to friendly countries, right?

Truly, the banks should suffer, because people can abandon their currently banks and search for new more interesting banks, that is possible to be done.

If this happens Crypto-Currency will turn itself into the traditional financial system we have today.

That is why national sovereignty is important, each country has it own rules (and if possible each part of the country), so we can have countries that are friendly or hostile to Crypto-Currencies, this way developers and enthusiasts can choose where to operate their businesses and in the end we will see on the practice what country's model works better.

I don't like that purse. Why should someone restrict me from using my funds? What it means to combating money laundering? Probably need to first prove that I launder money and then to limit me. Banks do not want to part with their monopoly on the use of our money and therefore come up with different pretexts. I'm sorry that there are people who support this approach.

I don't think the bitcoins gonna last any more than some 10 years. Because the rate of ponzi creations is much in the dark economy

I think cryptocurrency activities of fraud will be the major problem people will encounter when they engage in bitcoin or any cryptocurrency. Apart from bitcoin lovers been personally scammed, bankers especially will keep watching them closely as if they are thieves. Faudsters have succeed in giving cryptocurrency bad name and this explains the heavy rules been placed on it. And most all this makes You don't wanto blame the government for banning cryptocurrency in their country. This is the one problems that will ruin cryptocurrency and it saddens me.

I would like to share what is happening in my country regarding this:

1) Some of the banks have sent notices to people involved with bitcoin investments based on the money spent through their bank accounts. This was done for people using exchanges with all KYC information filled. Only option here is to use the banks which have yet not done this. And the banks took this decision even after government has not made bitcoins illegal here yet.

2) It will surely affect the market and new investors will be hesitant to invest. However, the large investors will still find loopholes and continue investing. 

I always dreamt of a policy where we get a bitcoin interest on storing our fiats in bank accounts Hope it will come true some day :)

Actually nothing can be said seriously about a currency which is still in beta and which is a gambling currency. ;)

The BTC train has gathered too much speed to be stopped. Crypto was created to give control of the monetary supply to the people. Now that we have had a taste of that freedom there will be no going back to state controlled monetary policy.

Banks are one of the problems investors are facing all over the world.They impose unnecessary taxes on people and we do not even know what they are using our money in terms of taxes for.When people are sweating to get money, banks are also planing ahead to get their share.What really annoys me about banks is that they are neglecting their primary responsibilities which is teaching people to make money.They should be able to teach people about the proper meaning of  making money.Fiat money on the other hand will come to extinct like the barter trade in some centuries ago.Barter trade was once cherished until fiat money came into the system to take over.It is now time for fiat money to also leave the system for better, easy and faster to use currency to take over.Am talking about the almighty cryptocurrency.Crytocurrency is the future of world money .

I do not think that bitcoin or any other crypto currency is going to stop people from using their banks, because i am sure that fiat will exist for a long long time, and therefore banks will also survive if fiat is present there, although it can put some effect on baking system but still i think that banking system will remain for a long long time.

I personally haven't experienced complications like this, probably because that I don't even cash out that often. But I have heard stories of people getting their funds frozen or accounts suspended because of crypto related transactions, so this is an extremely real problem that will only develop to be worse in the future.

Obviously, we all would like bitcoin to be running smoothly and accepted alongside the fiat system, but I think that KYC and restrictions around crypto use are only going to get stricter in the future.

Obviously this impacts bitcoin negatively, but I think that alternatives will soon develop once this problem becomes more prominent, such as decentralized exchanges, or simply more people trading bitcoin directly for goods. The restrictions can only hit the third parties that involve bitcoin transactions, and not bitcoin itself, so there is a lot of room for the bitcoin ecosystem to work with even if things become even more restrictive, imo.

I think it's mainly because of the lack of regulation that crypto has. Depending on the country, if a bank is involved in non-regulated activities, they can get fined big sums of money.
Also, crypto is a way to skip fees on international transactions. If you want to transfer a lot of money, you can end up paying almost 20% depending on the bank.

all three are a relationship that is not planned because it comes just in accordance with the development of the era, but if you see the three pressing each other as if now crypto really developed and will be used by the whole world so what is there any bank because crypto does not need the bank.

We share the same idea mate. Also for me i am well aware that in the near future there are lots of possibilities that can happen in a certain economy specially crypto and fiats along, and not only you have heard about people complaining that their funds get frozen because of crypto related transactions so this is not new to me, but the problem is that, more and more banks became stricter in terms of crypto related transactions, and the worst is that although we are often exchanging our money into fiats, what if we badly need it? so we are forced to encash through banks if possible, then there's this case where it holds us back.



Fiat will remain on this planet as long as the issue with bitcoin can't be solve.
what is the problem that FIAT making stronger now than 2017!
Bitcoin transfer fee and speed is the main issue here and we experience those problem on the last month of 2017!
Bitcoin is nothing with out the presence of the internet, this is a huge blow to crypto! not all people have the connection with internet.

Very disappointing when bitcoin is reserved as the currency of the future cannot solve the main problem of transaction speed so that fiat and banks are able to take advantage of the weaknesses of the bitcoin to strengthen the existence of fiat and bank so as not to be replaced by digital currency like bitcoin.

Cryptocurrency is a digital which influence both yhe fiat currency and bank in different way. Cryptocurrency  increasing popularity directly affect the price of fiat currency. Increase demand of cryptocurrency  show less use of fiat money among people. Cryptocurrency also affect bank by its advantages. Cryptocurrency provide its user an uninterrupted money transaction facility with low transaction cost and fast processing speed. This above thing attract more people use cryptocurrency instead of bank for money transaction. This thing negatively affect the profit of bank. The innovation advantage of cryptocurrency and popularity among people show that cryptocurrencies is the future currency.

Banks do not see bitcoin and other altcoins as a threat at all because of the volume is too small. If they want to destroy bitcoin, it's going to be easy for them. The banking system is perhaps one of the most powerful structures in the world. They're just observing and evaluating the situation. Unfortunately, fraud has a negative impact on the cryptos, which is why governments and banks have to fight.

I am totally disagree with above statement as for me bitcoin is the most wanted and most respectable investment which is currency to buy goods and saving to make future brighter, banks will only keep your fiat to save for long time and it will get rusted but will not earn profit for you as bitcoin is best choice as holding bitcoin gives us money and it will increase your money more than double if you will hold it with patience.

The bitcoin state is one which is decentralized whereas when you look at the state and the system for banks, the whole system is on the philosophy of centralization where all of the banks is controlled by a central bank's which decides the supply and the price of the currency

I do not think that banks will refuse to work with crypto currency for a very long time, or they will set the rules harder than when working with conventional currency. Everything will depend on how successfully bitcoin and other crypto currency will be legalized by the states. If this happens successfully, banks will not want to lose their share of profits and will provide services in the crypto currency. In addition, if citizens have the opportunity not to apply to banks for exchanging crypto currency in fiat, and to use various decentralized sites and exchangers, other possibilities, then banks are unlikely to be able to establish their tough rules when working with crypto currency. For them, this will mean an actual loss of profits.

Ignoring all the ICO and altcoin scams and focusing on the plausible scenario of Bitcoin as reserve currency and it's interaction with banks by then: I believe banks will still exists, since not everyone is a computer expert to keep their private keys safe. Banks will charge money to keep computer illiterate people's bitcoins safe from hacking and other threats.

I think there will be an huge business there. Banks don't need to necessarily disappear, just adapt, and the field is clear: being custodians of bitcoin, huge market niche there, there will be competition and good alternatives to choose from. One might think this defeats the purpose of Bitcoin, but that's beside the point.

When banks begin to worry about "criminality in crypto", I always get ridiculous. And where is it interesting to store your money around the world before crypto? In mattresses? No, their money was laundered by those bankers who are now shouting that bitcoin is a bubble. Simply they understand that the ideas of the banking system for more than 500 years and crypto will now change everything

Banks is ok anyway but there are middleman, clearing house that creates additional charges on the exchange process and its expensive. While cryptocurrency creates that transfer way faster and way cheaper than banks. I believe that cryptocurrency will going to be massive in the near future that most of the company will going to adopt its system. Good luck.

Fiat money is a currency without intrinsic value that has been established as money, often by government regulation. Fiat money does not have use value, and has value only because a government maintains its value, or because parties engaging in exchange agree on its value.
Big banks and financial institutions failed to adopt bitcoin because it was too slow. Bitcoin takes 10 minutes to “confirm” a transaction.

Soon enough we will see a collaboration between the fiat, banks and the cryptocurrency in the future because that is where cryptocurrency is going since it has a technology that the fiat and the banks need so they can have a better future in the making. Cryptocurrencies might be look like a scam or a bad image for other people in investing but it the future, it will be playing a big role.

No I don't think so,they will still be exist, by applying non-fiat exchanges, they will still run because not all depend on fiat

maybe it will be like that. this is like a selection stage

You may have heard that many European banks with most of its concentration lying in Germany have accepted cryptocurrency as their regulator or latest have accepted investments in cryptocurrencies, the only thing that banks need is stability which bitcoin is approaching

Futures banks are just that, it's just a matter of adjusting to electronic money. The bank represents the government that stands out for your assets, away from hackers. I think in the next few years if the country is modernizing, electronic money will replace all activities of cash and other transactions. At that time the bank only represented the protection of electronic numbers is possible.

Dear fellow banks are already operating electronic money, the use of cash has already too much reduced. Let me mention not due to cryptocurrency but due to banks has switched to electronic money. We pay our utility bills from our account through web or mobile banking.

When government regulate cryptocurrency, i am believe ICOs will be more selected. Regulation can reducing scam ICOs. I think future banks is like exchanger because in cryptocurrency, we dont need third party for transaction.

I would like to make a rough estimate of my nature, for fiat, they are always one of the currencies that do not have any currency that can change them, and I believe that in the future the bank will have difficulty. If the crypto market continues to grow, the bank will freeze. The crypto market will grow to be high and sustainable later on.

I’m not experiencing such with my bank. And as for what I think may happen in the future, I just think that the government will let people make use of Bitcoin and there will also be a strong connection between banks in the world and Blockchain and they might also be charging some extra fees for transactions you make from cryptocurrency exchanges to banks. Well, what do I know? I know nothing so no need to be doing all these predictions of a thing lol.

Let´s assume that your prediction is correct for a moment. How much would banks
even be able to charge for such a service? Right now they are earning money through
a multitude of financial products (from checking accounts to exotic derivatives). I think
that the potential profit of a service that you describe is much lower than the
profit that the banks currently make.

If this scenario does indeed come true, banks will have to shrink in size and probably
will have to be run with a fraction of the staff (and probably without a meaningful
network of branches as well).

I think the Japanese banks are quite smart in this regard, because they position themselves in a
way that they profit from cryptocurrency exchanges (either by founding their own exchange or
by owning shares of an existing exchange).

I also agree with the thought that banks are the most powerful institution in a financial department. With now the emergence of crypto, they sure are finding ways to handle it and deal with this new trend of currency.

Electronic money needs more time to reach most of the community. There are still many skeptics about it that still exist. The future of banks with electronic money is not certain. It is important that everyone agrees to accept electronic money. Then you can go on.

While the concept of Bitcoin ATMs is ground breaking in itself, it’s important to take note of how the cryptocurrency ecosystem and blockchain technology can help break down traditional banking barriers. As more of the global population continues to operate without centralized banks, Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies can be used and managed all on a cell phone. And as more cryptocurrency ATM models enter the scene, crypto holders are now able to make use of their digital assets by instantly cashing out.

People are happy with it but the only hurdle is government, if government of a state recognizes it and brings easiness for people to educate them with its use then the country will make progress of one month in few days. There are countries which are using the cryptocurrencies and their people are enjoying so it is more up to government of a country and not only up to people.

The initiation of cryptocurrency worldwide has done massive benefits to the populace and the nation. Banks are faced with the problem of people withdrawing most of their monies from there and investing rather in crypto.

I think the future will be in digital format.

surely there will be many that meet with digital format. we know that many countries are increasingly sophisticated and advanced with the digital world. because in its use is very easy and fast.

Banks and fiat is just a traditional method of doing transactions and crypto currency is the advanced method of doing transactions without delay too much time. Cross border payment will take seconds to reach second party even if they are in another end of world.
I think blockchain will be used in the banking very soon

In the future, technological advances will change most human work, taken over by technology such as robots and computerization. For example fiat money, which has a manual transaction process and involves the bank, will be replaced by crypto money that runs based on blockchain technology. Where everything is digital, so the transaction process is very short, but safe.

I think the one thing we should all look forward to is the stability of crypto currency. I mean more and more countries and companies are getting in on crypto currency so these money will bolster the price. Banks and other financial institutions are also looking into joining in on crypto currency but is waiting for regulators to go in first.

well, I think the development of fiat, and the bank will lead to cryptocurrency if its development on the internet. I have read a number of articles that are concerned with the development of fiat that are utilized by the blockchain, which is tantamount to combining fiat with crypto. well, whether it will be a development in the future, I think this will be a pretty good development.

Fiat banks will probably start using cryptocurrency in terms of its technology cryptocurrency is very sophisticated whereas for KYC it seems that almost all exchanges must use KYC for users of the disputes. because maybe the founder of the exchange must also comply with the rules set by the state and try to keep the business of the founder of the exchange to keep going smoothly.

Some good level of stability in which there is less fluctuation in price hugely is something we cannot see now until we are able to get to the point of real life usage and I guess we all know that already.

However, when it comes to banks, I am sure in some countries, they will try as much as possible to impose some sanctions, but based on the OP and some of the things he has come up with, I really do not think that should be a problem at all, or indeed that should only be a problem for those who are so much against the idea of KYC.

Most exchanges today are already offering KYC, so one way or the other; they are following the AML procedures. It is something we cannot run from basically, unless we want to deceive ourselves.

In the long run, I see most exchanges that want to thrive in this space to be duly registered and regulated and in that case, KYC/AML policy is a must and we are already getting to see that obviously with most exchanges nowadays even to the level that we are beginning to see decentralized exchanges trying to bring the idea of KYC into the show (https://news.bitcoin.com/decentralized-exchange-idex-to-introduce-full-kyc/)... I always say this, one thing we cannot avoid in this space is regulation and when it comes to regulation, things like KYC becomes a must just for the sake of preventing money laundering, so it is either you take it or leave it.

Many are still doubtful about cryptocurrency because of its nature of being unregulated. Some people would just wait for the approval of the government and then afterward, may consider investing in it. However, due to the volatility, businesses would not risk their profit and would wait from sometime before they consider adopting it when the price seems already stable.

Banks are trying to set limits for crypto, but at the same time, they are starting to implement it. We're moving in the right direction. I don’t like banks and try to avoid them, switching to crypto as much as possible.

Banks are trying to set limits for crypto, but at the same time, they are starting to implement it. We're moving in the right direction. I don’t like banks and try to avoid them, switching to crypto as much as possible.

therefore, the more sophisticated the present, which is full of the digital world, can be a crypto career journey for the future so that it can run well and have a bright future too, although there are still many countries that have not received other bitcoin and crypto

Fiat and banks are quite similar in nature because they both are centralised but when we talk about crypto I personally do not see future of crypto without regulation. As countries like japan, korea, Australia, usa and many others adopted crypto but these countries use strict norms and regulation for those people who uses crypto.   Future of crypto currency will be really bright if govt. regulate it and more and more people will join after that, and due to high demand there will be splash of price increases...

Banking system also really useful in past days but every one upgrade the future economy so crypto technology is good to survive in anywhere. Nowadays all the peoples are accepting the cryptocurrency but governments are not ready to accepting the cryptocurrency because fiat currency is easily controlled by government so it takes some in many countries. I hope one day all the countries are accepting the cryptocurrency.

I think the more finance companies like banks and investment firms and what not realizes the bigger money that could be made in crypto the higher the price for these coins will go. Which means the fiat currency is never been loved so crypto will get their attention.

When you have say dollars in your bank account it either devalues so badly that it will worth less next year and the savings account type of interest rates are incredibly low compared to the inflation so you will have only small number of dollars increased in your bank account whereas it doesn't worth as much as previous year.

However when you have bitcoin, even tough it dropped significantly in the past year, it will still go up in the future because dollar is losing its value. It is highly volatile but still worth the risk considering the upside of that type of investment.

The government will not do that, their concern is not to advance their society to get to know about technology but rather to improve
the community economy first, thats why in a poor country, technology like a digital currency there are still few users

Of course, banks will not use cryptocurrency until the state legalizes it and there will be no corresponding instructions for banks. I also think that in the future fiat and cryptocurrency will not only be forced to coexist with each other, but these types of currencies will be combined in various combinations to complement each other's capabilities. It will also be beneficial for cryptocurrency, which cannot replace the national money of states.

Banks should merge crypto currencies with their system. They cannot just ignore them as digital currencies are here to stay. So it is better to develop a system in which both fiat and crypto should be regulated. This is the only way the banks will survive otherwise crypto will overcome fiat currency in the near future.

So to keep ahead of the game, it is best for banks to adopt crypto in the long run

nobody knows for sure mate! We'll see. It's like MGO's leap a few days ago. Seem like crypto is a complete mess or something

I think fiat and bank will be remain to be used while cryptocurrency will more features come and become more develop. The future of them are depend in the demand, so as long as many people are still using and believing to it, surely it will remain and possible last longer. Especially to cryptocurrency because its very profitable.

Agreed. Since people still trust crypto and wait for the recovery it won't simply disappear in a second. Of course the market is so f*ckn insane nowadays but we just have to adapt and overcome it imo!

Most banks are already operating with some form of digital currencies like the paypal. The banks choose centralization, one they can entirely manipulate to suit their interest. Cryptocurrency does not allow this. Maybe to avoid the conflict between decentralization of crypto and centralization of the banks, both must be allowed to coexist as separate financial platforms with each offering its unique services.

how do fiat and cryptocurrency combinations work? yeah I also think that crypto won't be able to replace fiat.
and legalization will not be obtained easily for crypto. but with much of bitcoin user. I'm sure the government will consider that

maybe that kind of thing was only agreed upon for a country that was categorized as blacklisted, indeed such a state was forbidden to do any kind of trade, also transfers between countries, but that did not apply to all countries, only for certain countries, for us to transfer to any country has never had a problem.

Better say December '17 BTC leap. That was absolutely shocking  ;D

In my opinion, in the future cryptomarket should be regulated by government. We already seen too many scam ICOs this year and to protect investor money, government should regulating cryptocurrency. I am agree that exchanger should comply to KYC because many people think crypto is used for money laundering

Banks have been getting more pro-crypto every day. I kinda like this version of banks because they have been showing promise of being innovative and actually caring about improving the quality of their "product" to the customers. I mean their product is not exactly a product but you know what I mean.

With crypto being more intertwined with the banks and them having trillions of dollars in funds for lobbying they could actually achieve a crypto currency law system that is beneficial to both them and us much quicker than what we could have done without them. That is why I think crypto should be focusing on getting help from bigger players and that way we can actually become something major instead of staying as a hipster currency. It is the only way we can get out of this sticky situation.

It would make it totally same at the stock market where government influential whales are going to manipulate the market while the common people are eaten in feeding frenzy. Regulation does have its bad effect but there are far more problems with regulation coming in, that too from governments, not that non-government regulation would by any good either.

If you are investing in ICO you should do it at your own risk. Handing out your money to others in crypto will be surely without any return. However you are never sure that the person whom you sent the KYC to is a legit one.

Not everything in cryptocurrency should be regulated by states. The basic principles of the existence of cryptocurrency, namely, its decentralization, relative anonymity and confidentiality should remain. ICO activities should be regulated in order to protect the rights of investors and other participants in the campaigns of the ICO bounty, but no one should interfere in the ICO process itself.

but with the regulation of ico by the government, it can at least suppress fraud in ico, where it has caused many investors to be disappointed, and if noted this can make the market fall

The day when governments will actually be able to regulate the crypto world will be the end of every real chance of gain and bitcoin will be a currency like any other: no longer decentralized, but under the control of a central bank. And goodbye to Satoshi's dream.

Regulation of cryptocurrency does not always mean direct control of it. If by regulation we mean only the establishment of the legal status of a cryptocurrency, the determination of the order and conditions of its circulation within the state and, of course, taxation, and its basic principles of existence will not be affected, then it is quite normal for cryptocurrency and after that it can develop and enter in our life. Without such regulation, a cryptocurrency cannot develop anyway. Therefore, it is necessary to put up with such regulation.

 I think banks won't be able to do that. because most banks are now made up of entrepreneurs' capital and they have no power to decide to destroy a big market like crypto. I think they have only one way: close cooperation between blockchain technology and banks.

ICO should run under the law, the developer who want to hold an ICO should comply with many jurisdiction atleast jurisdiction of their country. I don't recommend to invest in ICO which has no complete company profile and legit documents. Honestly I have no problem with KYC but you know that kyc make more complicated things in using exchange site so if there are some people who get problem with kyc then they have to be helped immediately and give them fast respond.

Banks are made like that but dont forget that big money holders are also gradually entering into cryptocurrencies and are enthusiastic about them. This makes it bullish surely but that does not mean that the banking system will stop. It will be there and more partnerships will happen which leads to adoption of blockchain based technology.

In the future blockchain tech will be something of a force to be reckoned with and maybe the governments would allow legally transacting bitcoin. Very bullish so to speak. ;D

I'd like to see them go, but there is NO chance banks are going away.

Shit, I bet at least 70% (And I may be generous) of all the people here has a debt at this very moment.
You're tied to the bank far more than you think.

right, so that it will suppress the number of fraudulent ico that currently occur a lot. this resulted in investors becoming distrustful and they lost money, so the circulation of the cryptocurrency declined, and the effect we can see now, where prices fall. hence regulations from the government are needed here

At one time, fiat, bank and crypto will become a complementary entity where the world community can freely use the means of payment without any pressure.
This can happen when globalization is integrated and there is no suspicion that one party will dominate as a means of payment.

Do not worry, the bank will not implement the rules for too long because the longer it is certain globally all banks will adopt blockchain technology and with that they will revoke the strict regulations. Besides that, there is another option to be able to change the crypto that we have into fiat which is using a private exchange service. Out there there are many people who provide these services, we only need to give bitcoin vouchers to them and they will send fiat according to the number of bitcoin vouchers that we send. Very simple right?

The paradox is that fraudulent ICO will still be created and people will lose money on them. Let's say laws will solve 50% of problems, but nobody will decide the stupidity of people.

that is what I hope for, where the three elements can support each other, without getting rid of one another. we know the three have advantages and disadvantages of each, so it will be better if it can complement each other to facilitate the payment system later. what happened in my country, crypto will only be included in the trade market

Most cryptocurrency launch ICOs and it should be regualted to avoid more scam ICOs. Decentralized doesnt mean not need government regulation because its involve public money or public investment.