Bitcoin Forum

I am currently watching "Inside Job" by Matt Damon (http://isohunt.com/torrent_details/274872369/inside+job+2010?tab=summary) I think is the main narrator... it's perfect fodder for the bitcoin community!

Fantastic movie; been on a documentary binge lately. Unrelated to Bitcoin, but if you like documentaries you might like This Film is Not Yet Rated.

Hey hey jakemates, the former css moderator for a few days at r/bitcoin, is that you?

I will check that one out as well thanks, I have heard a few references to it already so it's high time!

I've been on a documentary binge since the reddit post about the best ones (http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/isvmk/reddit_what_is_one_documentary_that_everyone/)  ;D

Most of them are so depressing though  :-\

Watch Endgame and wake up to the World.

I heard it was just a bunch of BS about how we need more regulations because the ones that got us into that mess weren't enough and capitalism is based on greed, blah, blah. Is that an accurate description?

Reminds of Banks demanding Bailouts.

"The Bailouts made things worse", "Give us more Bailouts to fix the problem!".

Pretty much.  I turned it off part of the way through because it was irritating me.  The premise I got from it was that the economic crises was caused by deregulation of the banks (they used Iceland as the beginning example).  Deregulation of the banks, is of course, equivalent to free market policies, therefore, free markets and capitalism are bad and more government oversight is needed.  I should probably finish the rest of it to be fair, but I don't really want to waste my time.

government sponsored oligarchies != the free market

Exactly what is it that causes the emotional reaction you are describing?
The claim that the economic crisis was caused by deregulation (or not enough regulations) of the banks?

Deregulation certainly was the driving force behind the Iceland collapse...

Yes, the deregulation caused the problem.  The solution is not more regulation, though, but rather abolishing the monopoly on money.  Let banks run competing currencies, or least put the United States back on the gold standard. 

Yes lets let the Banks do things the way they want.  It's not like they caused the financial nightmare going on around the world.

Move along, nothing to see here...

lol

know why we went off?

know why no one is still on? even more libertarianesc countries?

so you would confiscate gold again? you know we werent allowed to own gold back then. How much gold has ever been mined?

are you sure you are for a gold standard or just against fiat currency?

They already do things they way they want.  The problem is, no one is allowed to compete with them.  So what are you saying?

Because bankers like to print and loan more money than they actually have in reserve? 

^^ This

If a country is on the Gold Standard you can't just print money out of thin air like they do now.  there wouldn't be enough Gold to go around.  They had to get rid of it to pave the way for Banks to print money for nothing, loan it out, and get real assets back in return(wether it be real Dollars or confiscated assets via forclosures and other scams - See the Great Greek Island Giveaway).

See, this is what you get for believing state-approved history books.

The gold was confiscated after the switch to fiat started

Gold standard means that the bills are exchangeable for gold.

Yes, this is why gold based currencies have historically been very stable. 

...and also owned by a select handful of individuals and organizations, effectively making it useless as a circulating currency not only because of lack of availability, but extreme expense of even the smallest gold piece. The same people that created this problem own all the gold.

Which is why silver and copper were used, as well.

Wouldn't putting the USD back to the gold standard be more regulation?
And what makes you trust the banks under no regulations?

You can't put the US back on the Gold Standard.  There's no Gold.  Fort Knox had most/all of its Gold removed decades ago.  There's not enough precious metals to back all the currency out there.  Kennedy tried but because of that and other reason he got whacked. 

The best solution for the US is to take money creation out of the Federal Reserve's hands completely, stop bankrupting our farmers who grow actual food instead of needless biofuels, open up our massive oil fields for use at home, stop regulating small businesses out of business with made up fees and bullshit that destroy all profit and are selectively enforced to kill American business owners employing American workers.

Down the road when the US reaches a stable economy again with our manufacturing base restored, and self sufficiency regained we can look at phasing in a new currency backed by (XXXX).  Until the nation is restored though that can't happen because no one will have faith in the new currency.

I just watched this and I think it answered a lot of questions I had about how and why this crisis actually happened. It is maybe a bit biased but does seem to concentrate mostly on the facts with sources etc, and is a well put together documentary. Very entertaining watching the big bankers squirm after being asked difficult (yet totally legit) questions. :D

A lot of people are associating the government regulation talked about in this film (or the lack of which caused the crisis) with the government regulation that Bitcoin may soon be subject to.

Now I think they are two totally different forms of regulation. The film explains how the lack of government regulation allowed mortgage lenders to sell loans to investment banks, who then sold them on to investors in the form of highly leveraged derivatives. So the investment banks were basically selling money they didn't own to investors.

What's more, the investment banks were paying ratings agencies to evaluate the derivatives as AAA investments, making it look like they were sound investments when in fact there was little chance that many of the loans would be repaid.

Then when the boards of these investment banks realized that there was a huge bubble forming, many sold their stocks in their own companies, knowing full well that shit was about to hit the fan, and profiting even more as a result.

So it basically came down to massive fraud on an industrial scale, which the deregulation allowed to happen, making a very small amount of people at the top very rich.

This sort of regulation is totally different from what is happening with Bitcoin right now. For a start, this type of regulation is not needed in the Bitcoin economy as fractional reserve banking is basically pointless with Bitcoin - people can't lend out more than they have as people will always want actual Bitcoin, not IOUs. I think people are mistaking this type of deregulation (which makes corporate fraud much easier) than the regulation Bitcoin is subject to, namely: Reducing anonymity with legitimate business transactions to stop money laundering, and generally making sure people don't get Bitcoin stolen and that it is taxed appropriately.

Now I'm not saying that I agree with any sort of Bitcoin regulation (tbh I'm not sure about this, Bitcoin seems good the way it is, however some regulation might encourage more investment and Bitcoin-related businesses to flourish).

I'm just saying that they are two totally different beasts - if the rich investment banks had been properly regulated during the early 2000's this crisis would not have occurred - such a problem is irrelevant with Bitcoin as such a crisis cannot occur, by it's nature banks can't loan out more Bitcoin than they own.

Am I right?

Good documentary indeed.
For those who want to learn more and didn't watched "money as debt" yet, take a look at those in my signature.