Bitcoin Forum

I have been thinking about Bitcoin and talking to my friends about it. One of them has pointed out something that I think might be a giant flaw. If you send money to someone, they don't have to accept it. What if you send some illegal stolen money? Like what if Al Qaelda decided to send you a few bitcents? You could be in jail !

For what?... I fail to see the giant flaw.

What if Al-Qaeda transfers a few dollars into your bank account?

Donate it to a good cause and thank them for doing something good with their money for once ::)

Or...send this money to everyone who wants to jail for this.
(tell them the brainwallet or private key -> they now own those Bitcoins xD)

The even bigger question is, if you receive an incoming payment, how will you know it's from a terrorist group?

Further to that, how would one go about tracking down the owner of any BitCoin address (unless the owner voluntarily posted that information somewhere)?

It is not a flaw, anyone can break into your house and put some money in your house, while you are sleeping :P

The NSA can track it down. You may be arrested because you are linked to Al Qaelda

No. The NSA is not a technology god. If these terrorists used TOR, they would be fine :D And as said above, if for some reason Al Qaeda thought you a worthy recipient of their funds, why would they say "I'm a terrorist from Al-Qaeda, have money!".

Al Qaeda could also sent you a normal letter via us postal and you get trouble  :D

+1
Feature of both houses and Bitcoin...not a flaw.

Al Qaeda can come to your house and shoot you, but they probably have something better to do (or worse).

CIA would be wondering why Al Qaeda isn't using their funds more wisely...scumbag Al Qaeda using tax payers money to purchase bitcoin and send to random people

This was a good read  :D

Holy crap!! The world is going to hell. We're all terrorists.

But, but his name is TheoryofBitcoin.

That by definition implies he's a deep thinker of sorts or at least has some greater insight into this complex problem called Bitcoin.

Ain't he?

Or he does a lot of LSD ;D

Not a flaw at all.
They could send you money via Paypal or something else as well.

Here's a scenario.   Politicians in the U.S. cannot accept campaign donations from foreigners.  So what if a politician has a static Bitcoin address for donations and then a payment arrives anonymously?  How does the politician know the funds did not come from a foreigner?

The solution to that is for the campaign to not use a static Bitcoin address but instead to issue a new Bitcoin address for each donation.  That way they at least they can ask for information identity that can be associated with each donation's Bitcoin address.

That doesn't stop someone from sending stolen funds, but it squelches the problem for the recipient in most instances.

Further, if the receiving of payments is a sensitive issue for you or your organization, what you can do is ensure that the person paying you maintains (or forwards to you) the payment protocol signatures on the payments they've received for the funds being sent to you.

The new Payment Protocol is a feature being added to the Bitcoin-Qt/bitcoind client (targeted for v0.9).  With it the party to be paid issues a payment request for each payment to come from the sender.    This way you can at least prove that the party sending you funds has an audit trail showing that the funds were truly sent to them (versus those funds coming from illicit source, such as if they snagged the money from a wallet obtained through malware, for example).

FAQ on the payment protocol
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=300809.0

so these bad people would have nothing better to do than randomly send their money around?
just don't be providing any services to them. it's no different then them walking into mcdonalds and ordering a burger.
if them evil doers drop $100 on the ground and you pick it up now knowing who that $100 belong to does that mean you are bad yourself and breaking any type of law?

Matthew 5:22-24 - From the holy bible


Did I quote the right scripture on this one?

On a more troubling note...  Imagine if someone on the wrong side of the law *mails* you something :o

This is an open invitation to all illegal groups everywhere. Please feel free to make me an accessory. Send me all your Bitcoins.

If it is a problem, send the money to the receiver-general or equivalent in your jurisdiction.

As the previous commentors have implied, that would be considered "working as designed."

You can not even reliably return the coins to the apparent "sending" address. You have to ask for a refund address every time.

The Bitcoin design essentially ignores "know your customer" laws. Either those laws will have to be changed, or Bitcoin will be declared illegal. This allows things like Truly Autonomous Software Agents (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=53855.0) -- simply because they don't have to prove that they are non-terrorist humans in order to participate in the economy.

Damn, you beat me to it!  >:(

Can't people think before posting "Major Flaw"?

Receiving funds from terrorists so I can afford guns with which to shoot terrorists? Feature, not bug.

what if a terrorist organization wired some money into your bank account? what then? "you could be in jail!"  :P

Heh. I always love these kind of threads. Makes you feel smart  :P

Oh no. There is a major flaw with air travel. Basicially, when you check in your suitcase it goes out of your sight!

Anyone could mess around with it, stuffing it full of drugs, guns, photos of Michael Jackson, and then when you arrive - you could get arrested! No one should catch a flight until this flaw is fixed.

lets say i (saddam bitcoin) drop 1 litecoin in your tip jar

you go to jail because you accepted money?

stupid


 

But you are stupid? Lol joking ^^
I think though that OP is not serious. It is not a flaw at all ...

Ask a silly question and get a silly answer lol

And I don't think that anyone went in jail for "receiving" money they do not want...

Major Flaw with Bitcoin Forum Moderation: trollish threads keep popping up.

Were you high when you had this idea?

Because this is retarded.

Dude, seriously? ::)

If "you" could be in jail, then why couldn't Al Qaeda be in jail for that matter.

Oh, and exactly who is gonna put someone in jail for receiving stolen bitcoins? The Korean goverment has no jurisdiction over me, you know.

Major Flaw with Bitcoin Economy: unsecured "banks" keep getting "hacked" into.

Lol, you shoult not be so mean :D

In what way ? Have you lost something from a bitcoin bank ?

Me, personally? God, no.

Paging Phinneaus Gage to thread 304544

al quaeda can send me all the bitcents they want. address in my sig.

Major Flaw With Free Speech: Idiots can still talk.

I have never been sent to jail for any of the al-qaeda bitcoin payments I've received.  This is in stark contrast with the two life sentences I served for the previous PayPal payments they sent to me.

Bitcoin
Al-quaeda

This page is now in the top 1000 of NSA suspicious webpages

AlQ (somewhere in a cave on the Pakistan / Afghan border)

Terrorist 1: Brother what shall we do today? Raid a shopping mall? Hijack an airplane? Build a dirty bomb?

Terrorist 2: No no my brother in arms. I have a cunning plan. There is a wise man in the motherland of our enemies. His magnificant theories are a threat to our cause.

Terrorist 1: No no brother it is not fair to blow up a man in a wheelchair...

Terrorist 2: No you idiot (kicks him), I am not speaking about Stephen Hawkins. The man who is our enemy is wiser than him...

Terrorist 1: Michael Moore?

Terrorist 2: (Hits him with the but of his AK47) No that fat oaf is not worth our semtex. There is another - he is the sage known as 'TheoryOfBitcoin'.

Terrorist 1: (getting excited) How shall we kill him brother - mail bomb, assasination, drive by shooting?

Terrorist 2: You idiot! By Allah's beard do you have no imagination? My plan uses our enemy against him. He will be undone by those idiots at the NSA.
We will.... (pauses for effect) send him 1 bitcoin!

Terrorist 1: (accidentally slips into East London accent) Not out of my f**king wallet mate....cold storage, never gonna sell, bullish all the way.

Terrorist 2 shoots Terrorist 1 and wanders out of the cave shaking his head.


--TFIC NSA Thanks. --

Incredible choice of items! Thanks for the laugh.

I think the OP is mad! Think before you post please!

Gaga ? The serial poster ? Common Gaga, where did you lose money and how much ?

Instawallet? ::)
Now stop fucking around and pay the man, will you?

Major Flaw with Bitcoin Economy: community doesn't do enough to "protect" newbies.

Gold!

Major Flaw with Bitcoin Economy: The decimal needs to move over a couple times :)

Can't fix the inability or refusal to study the entire compendium of bitcoin knowledge archived across the forum and internet at large, accessible 24/7/365...

And what if someone filled the blockchain with kiddie porn? Oh noes! Bitcoin's dead I'm telling ya!

Firstly, I want to thank psy for the PM making me aware of these posts, of which was the extent of said PM.

At least "serial poster" is a far cry from the last time Boussac addressed me. (I may have to dig up that epic post)

This is really odd! I've never received an email or PM from anybody associated with InstaWallet pertaining to the three wallets they have been so kind to watch over, with this being the first contact hence, and at the risk of posting of off-topic.

I'm currently on the road to Atlanta, staying at a Paducah, KY, tonight. I'm using my new laptop, thus don't have the three original IW URL's handy, but believe I posted two of them on IW's main thread.

I filled out the forms via what was displayed at the time when I visited all three URLs  when the initial claim process was in place. After doing such, I got a thank you and we will be in touch page (paraphrased). About a week or so afterwards, I was no longer able to do anything on all three pages, not that I wanted too. The only thing displayed on all three URLs was some standard veriabe, of which currently eludes me.

Two wallets, one of which contained exactly 1,000 BTC and the other was either 132.xxx BTC or 123.xxx BTC (honestly didn't remember which, but submitted the 123.xxx amount, of which I don't remember what the .xxx(xxxxx) was, thus rounded it down to 123 BTC), I didn't have have the wallet addresses, but the form at the time was designed to submit as much info as possible. The third wallet had .84(x) BTC (if I recall correctly) of which I did have the Bitcoin address, but that one supposedly had two other claims on it for some reason, thus assuming that's why it would take that one longer to process. The other two I assumed would take longer because they were both over the 50 BTC threshold, also assuming that they would be processed after IW is finished processing all the lesser claims. Awhile back, I was taken aback when I notice, and commented upon, that IW principal(s) were being paid out their over 50 BTC claims.

Shy of posting periodically on various threads in a civil tone, I have stopped my vitriol attacks against IW due mainly by an email (maybe it was a PM) by a user stating that I would have better luck with my claim if I ended said attacks. I was assured, in no uncertain terms, that it'll all work out if given IW time.

As I've mentioned before, prior to IW going dark, I was an advocate of InstaWallet. In fact, a few days prior to them going dark, there was a concern thread up of which I started raising questions since I knew what I had at stake at the time, but my concerns were laid to rest by one of the principals (don't believe it was Boussac, and sorry for not posting link, but will later, but easy to find) and, ironically, by psy, of which I'm not placing any blame, but it was his words at the time that laid my concern to rest.

On April Fool's day, InstaWallet went dark. I wasn't made aware of it till about three days later by Greywolf via some other thread and somehow the subject came up, all of which I posted the chain of said events in IW's claim thread.

Reading between the lines of Boussac's comment months ago, and the "serial poster" comment above, I'm beginning to believe that my funds, among a handful of others is financing Paymium/Bitcon-Central. I'm sure that somehow my over a quarter of million dollars evaluated at the time due to the exchange rate was moved during the hack, and either some hacker got it or, as I've stated, Team IW allocated the funds.

Quarter mil, that's gotta sting a little. Is there anyone that's been using Bitcoin for more than a year that hasn't been fucked out of a bunch of money?

A bit under 2 BTC from the Bitfloor hack, wasn't worth that much at the time, but I'd sure like to have it back now...

First time this factual, usable information is brought to my attention (in a VERY large pile of ranting posts).




Now I realize that we have a communication problem, Gage. I am not at trained psychiatrist prepared to deal with serious cases of paranoïa. When I started the IW topic I naively expected you to read my post. Instead it was just an opportunity for you to project your preconceived opinion about me and my colleagues: rest assured, I am not tyring to convince you otherwise nor to shut you up. Simply provide me via PM with the information that I need to sort out your (big) case.
The only PM I received from you so far is dated december 29, 2012, totally unrelated to IW.

Dude, if you owed me north of 100 thousand euros and you talked about me like you talk about Phinn I swear I would find you and leave you toothless.

Now I am shivering with fear. Let's call the moderator. Wait: psy(cho) IS the "global" moderator..

Guys, please stay on topic! We're talking about SERIOUS FLAWS here!

I lost a few hundred at the time when My Bitcoin was hacked... I wonder how much that money would be worth today.

For an animal with no wings you sure fly high as fuck... Be careful with the sun, Ica... Pierre.

As I've mentioned before, I have no idea what a wqllet key is. Taxing my memory, with InstaWallet all that was needed was a URL of which contained a Bitcoin address in your control, thus no need for any key. Besides, once funds were placed in a wallet at IW, the balance always showed zero, with funds navigating to some other wallet that was in IW's control, and no key in the world allow one to extract funds out.

The following is the first time I posted on the main claim thread:


The following is the first time you acknowledged my posts on the claims thread:


13 days later after people stated requesting a police report, Boussac was kind enough to post proof in the Frence Section:


The following my Davout is what convinced me that all was well at IW:


Because of a slow connection, this post took me over an hour to pen. I need to get back on the Road to Atlanta, for Bing and Hope is waiting on me.

I'm unable to provide further information requested by Boussac because it's on my old laptop. I won't be back home till early next week.

This...
The actual question is this one:

So you're the one. I heard there was one. Kind of like winning the lotto, huh. lol

I got caught by MyBitcoin, Bitcoinica and GLBSE. You're a lucky man.

I've never been taken by an online business that I couldn't contest with Visa or chargeback. So, basically I've lost nothing online.

I don't even really trust the exchanges. I lost a few coins to Gox that they won't take responsibility for and it's not enough for me to worry about. I now believe only in face to face sales of Bitcoins for cash (LocalBitcoins is the way to go). Let MasterCard and Visa trust people. All I have to do is trust Visa and if their business partners fuck me they give it back.

There's downsides to everything. I don't buy anything online unless I don't care if the world knows about. I guess that depends what you buy online.

I've always liked you Holliday. rofl

The major flaws of bitcoin:
-block chain grows exponentially
-mining becomes very centralized thanks to ASIC
-bitcoin transaction are NOT anonymous

I hope upgrades in the bitcoin protocol will solve the above problems
-making the blockchain delete old transactions and save the net amount
-change the mining algorithm so all ASIC hardware becomes obsolete
-using ZeroCoin as default to make transactions anonymous

No, it doesn't, at least as long as there is a hard limit block size, it will grow linear.

Those are attributes, but not flaws. They have advantages and disadvantages.

yes a lighter block chain would be good
No way! This would be crazy and damage Bitcoin a lot.
Also there would be new Asics, because Asic is nothing more than a hard specialised on doing certain stuff.
Really really stupid idea.

Are you an idiot? No-one said that mining became centralized when expensive GPU's were used, but they say that it is now. No, it isn;t. As ASICs improve, they'll become cheaper and faster, meaning anyone will be able to mine. More mining hardware actually = less centralization.

If we got a satoshi for every internet tough guy ... *sigh*

There ain't a downside to Bitcoin, it is a very cool currency which makes good use of otherwise rubbish hardware to make em :)

20 years. Cumulated losses: Zip.



You'd have about a quarter million of Phinns bucks?

No.  He's not an idiot.

Graphic cards are common consumer gear.  About every household has one, and anybody could start mining without dropping a dime -- that's decentralization.

Once both mining farms and small timers shared the same type of gear -- graphic cards from mainstream sources.
At best, buying in quantity translated to 50% discount.
This changed with ASICs.  Manufacturers get their own chips at a tiny fraction of what they charge you.  What was once just an edge is now a *humungous, insurmountable edge*.

To make matters worse, you fund the chip development with your preorder money, *a year* in advance (BFL), guessing the mining difficulty, and having to mine at a loss to amortise a fraction of the cost.

Well done.

If you don't think centralization is happening, look at how nicely GHASH.IO is ramping up.  240TH/sec.  That's Terahash.  Tera.  It's a *private* pool.

So let's hold off on the insults, pl0x.

Not really cause there is a hard cap of 21 million bitcoin.


Agree, very jealous of people that know how to make FPGA and ASIC back then.

There is, if all the government decided to ban bitcoin like in Thailand. Then DOOOM!!

This is false, the hard cap of the number of Bitcoins has nothing to do with the number of transactions.
You can send 1 Bitcoin a thousand times if you want.
The hard cap on block size is limiting the blockchain growth.


Bitcoin isn't banned in Thailand. This is a false news that spread all over the internet.