Bitcoin Forum

Today marks the first time me and my partner (Motaboy) go live with our product details for our SCRYPT FPGA which we have been working on for the past 6-8 months. Please visit our site http://www.CryptoIndustries.com (http://www.CryptoIndustries.com) for complete overview.

Our machines come in 1, 5 and 10  MH/s variants. They are all made up of our barebone board named "Ra". Our machines are internally made up of multiple boards as well as a RaspberryPi controller. They have built in psu's which will be high efficiency and also 4 line lcd displays which will show various stats such as speed, share count, temperatures and also status. We expect PEAK temperatures to be no more than 45-50c and power usage will be a fraction of GPU equivalents.

Our Ra boards are built around Xilinx Artix 7 fpga chips (28nm) and run with external memory. As stated they will be controlled by mining software which will run and managed on a RaspberryPi. The software itself will be a modified version of CGMiner (opensource). We will also be selling a barebone board, but we will present details of this once our final board arrives back from the PCB prototyping facility.

We will from delivery enable mining of Litecoin (LTC) & Feathercoin (FTC) with future SCRYPT based coins being added in following updates. There will be various ways of updating user settings including preformatted files through USB and IP access. The machines can mine SHA256 coins, however we assume 99.9% of our customer base would not want to.

As time goes on we will be updating this thread with news, but right now our product has a finished design and we are awaiting our final prototypes. We are not opening for orders yet as we are negotiating prices with suppliers of our chips. The product photos you see are indeed renders, but show exact versions of the cases we are getting made at our UK based enclosure manufacturer. We will be of course showing videos and doing a meetup (London) allowing potential customers to have a hands on and see the product hashing. At this present time we feel an IPO does not serve any purpose to us as we are self funded however we will be offering hosted mining via contracts and are currently sourcing a cost effective location and electricity provider to offer this to our customers.

We are a UK registered company (Companies House)

Company Name:
CRYPTO INDUSTRIES LTD

Company Number:
08701585

Registered Address:
145-157 St John Street
London
EC1V 4PW

For those unaware I am Koolio on BTC-E.com where Im a moderator. I own and run the escrow site http://www.koolioescrow.com (http://www.koolioescrow.com) also. If you have any questions then don't hesitate to get in touch on contact@cryptoindustries.com

Interesting

I get one for free, right, uncle? :D

hmm

Birthday present possibly XD

Great Googly Moogly!!!   :o :o :o


Estimated pricing?

:D :DDDDDDD

That will come soon, we have a few things to clear up first with suppliers and our manufacturing process

Great to hear you're working on an FPGA Koolio. I'll definitely be contemplating on pre-ordering/buying one if my budget allows :)

Yay for free FPGA for me!!! <3333333

So koolio, you're not going to be selling them for now - just renting?

Does that mean we cannot switch to another coin at will? for example - a new coin that I like is released on here, I cannot mine it without contacting your people and setting it up first?

Also, congratulations!

Why not port immediately to ASIC?  I'm sure you could raise the venture capital.  You could also just patent your design and sell it to one of the other large ASIC companies.

How long would you estimate it would take for manufacturing? If prices are reasonable, I'd order some... As long as they don't take too long to arrive.

I think he means the software that comes along with it will only be supporting Feathercoin and Litecoin initially.

We will be selling once we have our prices and supplies fully arranged. Hosted mining will most likely come after initial customer sales. We wouldn't be 'renting' as such but just offering a set amount of KH/s or MH/s for a set period of time. In terms of adding coins we are offering FTC and LTC from the get go, however updates will come regularly with new coins. We will most likely be asking for customers to submit new coins for proposal when they surface (there are too many sites where coins are launched for us to keep an eye on).

We will be offering boards as a barebone option which will in fact allow user made mining software and as a result you could implement your own coins without waiting for our updates.

Problem with ASIC design is it costs so much. Minimum investment for design only is 7 figures. Dont get me wrong, we would love to have subsequent hardware in the form of an ASIC but FPGA is the obvious stepping stone. Also the price of SCRYPT coins right now would mean it would be a very high risk on ROI for us to make an ASIC. If this initial product range goes well we will indeed look for investment to go ASIC.

We estimate that it will take around 8-10 weeks to deliver from close of our batch. The bulk of that wait is actually from waiting for FPGA chips to be delivered to us, and then on to the PCB manufacturer (or direct).

Awesome a UK seller too, I am fed up of dealing with overseas people.

epic, looking forward to the pricing!

Same thing I was thinking months ago when all the hardware companies out there were foreign.... its about time UK had its fair share of launches. As stated we will be presenting our product in London to people wishing to see it.

Thanks, hopefully we will impress

Interested in it too, I see most of the details except for price tag. How much is it? :P

Sounds really good Koolio, now I will patiently await the pricing, will also probably be attending the meetup.  ;D

Same, if there is any meet-up or something I will attend. Just a 20 minute train ride to central London.

Sweet, another preorder for some vaporware.

show a video of it mining or it didn't happen.

any guesses on the cost for each machine?

This is great news.

I would suggest that you make ask everyone to send you their emails so as soon as you are ready for launch, you can email all the potential buyers and have orders flowing in instantaneously.

That way no will miss out on the launch either.

I second this.

Watching this closely.

CryptoNerd will feature an article about this, should we be able to get our hands on a unit at some point , we can do a review article aswell :)

i'm still rubbing my eyes atm from just waking up , so it'll be posted later today :)

Yes would be cool to see mining.

What the wattage output of each unit, ballpark estimates? Will your company premine coins with it to test? A few companies are in the hotspot for mining with customers units before shipping to them, when they know they can do test coins. What will be the turnaround rate for production and shipping to customers?

150w for 1mhs
you have not seen website

I just looked at the website.....That's efficient....If the cost isn't more then 50% more of a gpu setup, then it's worth it in my opinion....

How long are you gonna mine with (preordered) equipment before sending it to us? :)

I am interested too, any chance of making it hosted mining instead?

If I understood it correctly, they will have both.

I'm interested what are the prices?

If the prices are reasonable, then the GPU's can be used for gaming again...LOL

I was under the impression that a FPGA for scrypt wasn't feasible. What about this report from Alpha Technology? http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0241/1743/files/Alpha_Technology_-_Scrypt_Analysis_on_FPGA_proof_of_concept.pdf?709 (http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0241/1743/files/Alpha_Technology_-_Scrypt_Analysis_on_FPGA_proof_of_concept.pdf?709)

They are working on a GPGPU instead of FPGA.

http://alpha-t.net/blogs/news/8353976-development-update-24-07-2013 (http://alpha-t.net/blogs/news/8353976-development-update-24-07-2013)

That report was a rather shallow analysis, and while I agree with its conclusions that scrypt mining using just the internal fpga ram is uneconomic for new hardware (but perhaps not existing bitcoin fpga miners (https://github.com/kramble/FPGA-Litecoin-Miner)), it does not apply to Koolio's devices as these use external dram.

As for GPGPU, I agree that this is overambitious if not outright scammy. If you're going to use GPGPU for scrypt mining there are plenty of established highly regarded solutions already available (aka graphics cards). Alpha-T is not going to come up with anything to beat these.

The exact same address of http://www.gxmining.com/support.php and many other scammers, according to interfraud.org .

Please get a better address if your product is indeed legit.

We already have a newsletter list ready for all the interested parties. If you visit our site, in the footer is a simple email request form. These guys will be the first to know, but obviously forum posts will subsequently follow.

Get in contact, we are asking for media requests to come sooner rather than later so we can see logistics of sample units.

contact@cryptoindustries.com

If you check the specs on our site we estimate power to be 150-180w per mh. We know exactly how much our boards take but we have a variance for multiple fans, raspberrypi and other bits (display & wifi etc).

We are fully aware of the other companies who mine with customer units which is very rude, not to mention fraudulent in a way. We have a testing program for each machine which will cycle it to various limits. This process will be a short process. After done we will package the units ready to send out. Turnaround time is essentially based on delivery times of chips. Our current preferences supplier says we can get chips delivered in quantities we need in around 8 weeks. PCB manufacture is a very very quick process as we are not ordering a huge amount (compared to facility capabilities), so after this is it a simple case of assembly which is not long. Total time we are aiming for is about 10-12 weeks after final orders received.

We are looking for a suitable facility with low power costs to do this, however electricity isn't too cheap in the UK so we are looking at surrounding countries too

No I assure you it is feasible just a bit pricey. From a business view there isnt much profit in it but its definitely doable. In regards to Alpha Tech, I have to admit I am very confused as to what or when they are offering anything.

It is an off-the-shelf paper address: http://www.companiesmadesimple.com/company-services-registered-office.html
I imagine there are thousands of companies registered there, good and bad.

This is just our admin address for use while we setup. Unless we use our home addresses (which we will not) then we can't justify getting an office yet until we are ready to either take orders or manufacture, as this cost will ultimately be passed on to the customer. I have a long time in the community (over three years) and I am trying my best to be as forthcoming as possible. As stated we are a registered company too. I think as it stands we have done much more than the other established scammer companies by offering addresses, as much community interaction as possible and not a preorder without product in hand. So far we have launched our concept, if we were scamming we would have offered preorders too.

We just wanted to hide our home addresses for security sake. Agreed it is a generic address but we will have an office ultimately.

Interesting... so do you have something that works or just renders?

What are the prices you've been quoted now? I could have a look around here in Sweden if you'd like.

Very interested in this. Will definitely stay glued to this thread.

If the manufacturer / seller is already saying it is "pricey", that just scares me.

Great that it is from the Uk so can possibly pay and pick up in person.

I hope that it (barebones) can be easily set up with cgiminer so that we can just add in the parameters we like and mine any scrypt coin. This point is critical to me personally anyway.

So it is approx 4x more efficient that 7950 in hash/electricity used?

150w for 1mh?

with the twin 7950s i see around 600w for 1.2MH

We at CryptoNerd just had to cover this with an article :)

Read all about it here (http://majesti.co/cryptonerd/crypto-industries-announces-three-scrypt-fgpa-miners/)

No more preorders !

So how long will you guys be "testing" these units prior to shipping?   ::)

Awsome!

The coming of ASICs force most GPU's over to Scrypt mining. Now with FPGA coming to scrypt, where will the GPU go.

I'm mostly interested because if this happens it will change the way everyone mines. There is nothing really to learn from ASICs. If the technology exists, it will be released. It's how we all adapt to the changing technology that matters. That is the reason I will stay glued to this thread ;)

Nice one, very interested in it and when can you guys confirm the price? Horus seems like a good choice

Quick sell me all of your GPU's before it is too late! 

When FPGA and ASICs come to scrypt, GPU will go back to where it belongs, Gamers!!!

Reserved

We havent opened for preorders yet, dont worry lol

Our testing regime is actually an hour or two per machine. We've already promised quick delivery times

Obviously with bitcointalk being down there was a lack of information being posted here. We have much more details regarding the maths and processes of the hardware on litecoin forum. However if you want to post any questions here, either myself or my technical partner will be glad to answer. Please note pricing questions cant be answered as this will be made public to everyone is due course.

I thank you for reading our thread,

Please visit www.cryptoindustries.com (http://www.cryptoindustries.com) and fill in the news request form in our footer

 :D

Sounds promising , keep up the good work. :+)

Price has to be in the ball park of $150 per Mhash for it to have any sensible ROI

Here is my math:

10Mh unit = $1500

Dustcoin return on LTC  1 month at current diff = $605

2.5 months to break even without POWER (1500W @ 0.9kWh $98.62 per month) NOT counting Difficulty changes .

So if price is $150 per Mhash realistically we are looking at a 4 month return at best and this time frame in such uncertain venture seems crazy.

All FPGA miners would basically have to agree not to sell a single LTC for 6 months along with all sales of machines to be done in LTC, which you will also hold for 6 months prior to dumping, in order to corner the market and artificially balloon prices to a more sensible level. Which can be done in theory, if coordinated, but risk is still quite high. Ideally price would be at $100/Mhash which will cause a natural price influx and unbelievable sales for you guys, question is can you get your manufacturer costs to this level and stay profitable ... time will tell.


One solution would be for you to hold 15-25% of the equipment and mine it until the break even point is reached, then and only then release 2nd batch.

Please for god sakes dont be BFL i beg you!

  :-\

If your price point is higher, then it would make more sense to buy and hold LTC / NVC and let newbs repeat same mistakes, while comfortably see diff rise and cash in on experience as we all know some one will def buy these no matter what you sell them for...

Only one post in the last week and it wasn't from the OP...

I think these units will be closer to six to eight times that amount.

Nothing new on their site either...I want to give them my money but they wont let me yet :(

And I agree $150/Mhash is low. Quick assessment in my head and I wouldn't be surprised to see double that number at least.

Low? If they sell units at cost and keep portion of batch 1 to produce profit it can be done

Definitely keeping an eye on this.

Another week passes and no news from the OP....

i'm going to guess and say they are trying hard to find the right chips for a decent price.

not going to be easy.

It will be around 1$ per KH/s meaning 10 grand for 10000 khs...not even worth bringing the product to market at these prices

i doubt these fpgas will beat undervolted 7970 by much at all, maybe some weak amount like 30% and yet cost 3x the price. Not worth it.

Agreed.

The whole point of SCRYPT was to hardware proof against ASICS.

Which is ridiculous because asic's can mine scrypt too. The reason people say scrypt is "asic proof" is because the scrypt algorithm requires a good deal of high speed memory which most asic's don't have. A dedicated individual or company could produce an asic based scrypt miner if they design it to provide sufficient memory. We are years away from that most likely. The asic market is just kicking off with bitcoin so don't expect to see scrypt fpga's or asic's for some time

Providing sufficient memory that can be accessed in a timely manner is what makes GPUs cost the price they do. Also, as you increased memory, your savings on power consumption diminish. The problem isn't that you can't mine scrypt with ASICs, the problem is that the efficiency gains of doing so are negligable at best, subpar at worst. People lucked out with SHA256, ASICs could be designed that gave significant efficiency gain. If you check out the FPGA situation, it really isn't looking promising.

I agree which is why I said we are years away. Somebody will build one when parts are less expensive and easier to come by. Let sha256 establish the market for newer, mass produced asic technologies like it has been doing, and in a few years a scrypt fpga/asic is more probable. In the meantime this is an interesting project :)

some information regarding the recent q&a with The Koolio :)

http://majesti.co/cryptonerd/crypto-industries-qa-about-their-scrypt-fpga/

Well, once they are done with the current design, they will surely increase it furthermore like making it more energy efficient, cheaper and hash faster.

Koolio said....


~BCX~

Will you accept escrowed funds for purchases?

But... but...

Blasphemy!

So they are putting some kind of "it is our machine not your machine" crap on it to prevent it mining coins they do not "authorize" or something like that ???

Taking a percent too, maybe? Maybe forcing you to have to use their pools thus not be able to mine coins they choose not to support ???

TL;DR How the heck do they plan to prevent people using them to mine whatever coins the user chooses to mine, and WHY ???

-MarkM-

Seriously? Is any of this actually the case?
I was honestly planning on picking one of these up(assuming price was right) but certainly wont if any of the above is true.

Seems like you're trolling a bit, I didn't read that stuff in the article nor did I anywhere else.

I actually received a personal response on my inquiry about escrow -- a nice touch. I'll be watching this one.

If escrow is accepted that's definitely a good thing, but if they actually plan on limiting customers to only certain coins, LOL NOPE.  ::)

awaiting prices

Since nobody wants to tell anything about prices, I'll give you my very (repeat: very) rough estimate.

Frist thing. We know they will be using Atrix-7 200T in a 1156 pin package FPGA. Motaboy (the designer) says they have 104 kH/s per chip (theoretical). Reference:  (https://forum.litecoin.net/index.php/topic,6211.30.html)

ONE chip costs about 250-300$. For the 1MH/s unit they will need at least 10 chips, 12 more likely. We are at $3500 now.

We don't know much about the other hardware (case, boards, RAM, PSU), but it could be done for about $500. So about $4000 / MH/s.


A 2 MH/s GPU rig will set you back about $2000.


Basicaly their FPGA will give 4x LESS hash power per $ investment. What is interesting is the lower power consumption.

Profitability at current Litecoin diff prices, etc:
GPU (2MH/s, $2000, 1000W, 0,15/kWh): break even in 218.90 Day(s)
FPGA (1MH/s, $4000, 250W, 0,15/kWh): break even in 738.28 Day(s)

So what they need to do is get the chips at at least 50% discount to get even close to GPU mining...

Can we point the device at a pool of our choice or are we restricted to one pool, or a handful of pools?

http://thecryptoblog.com/ask-cryptoindustries-questions/


Let the questioning begin!

 “When are the Litecoin FPGAs going to come out?” or possibly “Any plans for a Litecoin ASIC?”

Whats the prices for the 3 miners!

Thanks for posting.  This must be why there is no competition.  Price doesn't make sense yet.  It'll probably get there.

I'll pay $3000 USD for the Horus. Does that look reasonable? Or is it too much?

That would be an awesome price for the Osiris (5MH), but if they don't get the hardware at ridiculously low prices you'll be paying $3000 for the Isis (1MH) ;)

Remember, they would be dumb to sell at lower $/kHs price than GPUs if their hardware consumes 3-4x less power. Even the same ratio is a steal. Most likely it will be at least 2x as expensive as a GPU rig, but with much lower running costs...

$3000 is too expensive for 1MH that can only mine a couple of scrypt coins. It would make more sense to just buy a 2 GPU or even 4 GPU rig, even with the power costs.

So... Alpha Technologies have begun their announcements... Is CryptoIndustries still for real?

Pop, pop!!!

interesting times

On a short range view all Coineers need to recalculate as all coin prices are dropping...

Or did I miss a coin which wasn't affected by recent crash?

Regarding the Horus: NICE!

Advantages:
- high efficency compared to GPU
- less management effort compared to common mining rigs
- performance does not kick out GPU mining hardware from start

Disadvantages:
- only few Altcoins supported
- the race for non GPU hardware has started again

Indeed... :)

FPGAs are only interesting in the long run (takes longer for ROI), because of lower power cost.

And since ASICs are already on the horizon the long term viability is now higly questionable. Looks like we will be jumping over FPGAs for scrypt. I would consider buying one if it was available today, but a preorder with 3 months wait time is just too much.

It seems to me that Koolio and Motaboy have already come to that conclusion a long time ago, but failed to inform us. They have been silent since the start of November. They are probably looking into ASICs like all the others have done.

Alpha-tech and jasinlee (Fibonacci Inc., former LTCFPGA): both abandoned plans for production using FPGA chips and started ASIC development.

The coming months may prove me wrong, but i'm pretty confident about this prediction...

if this compared to gpu rigs it should cost less than equivalent mhs rig despite the power consumption because its only question of time until it mines zero coins and then gpu rigs can be sold unlike these miners which will be worthless

Koolio? Sup mang whats the word you still doing this or not?

Looks insane expensive

I'll buy 10 units please.

When are these shipping? Any prices yet? Looks like it's vaporware... :(

Sup mang!

it's a raspberry pi with some fpga's on it...

a raspberry pi is operated from an SD card with a linux distro; usually raspberian...

Why for crying out load would you create a 19" system (obviously designed for datacenters) that is trusted on an SD card operated machine?

don't get me wrong; i LOVE raspberries; but not for mining... they are sloowwwwwwwww and doing many read/write requests to an SD card makes it corrupt.

I for sure don't want to have to drive to a datacenter every day to replace SD cards....

would a beaglebone be a suitable replacement for the Rpi?

I don't see why not.

no updates for a few weeks?

With no updates for 2+ months I'm calling this project dead...

And since both Koolio and Motaboy don't seem to have the gems to admit it publicly I wouldn't order from them even if they resurect the project some time in the near future.

Well it's march 12th and it seems like a dead end. I know Kramble updated his github in feb on it but it just seems to run in to all sort of problems, challenges.. Friend of mine is trying the same thing together with an FPGA specialist. They give it six months then is has to be up and running, or bust...

Cookie.

This project is nothing to do with me (except that it may have taken some input from my open source code).

And my project (https://github.com/kramble/FPGA-Litecoin-Miner) is pretty much dead in the water. Scrypt is just not economic in FPGA, and the forthcoming ASICs will only make that worse. So I've moved on (Blake (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=306894.0) is much more FPGA-friendly, and Keccak and Groestl also have some potential).

Sorry for the delays in feedback. Unfortunately in last few months we made the business decision not to go ahead as the potential risks were not evenly weighted with profits that could be made. We did however sell our IP to a foreign group who I believe are making the machines for their own farm. There is a potential for a public release but I would leave this to them. Sorry for not giving our feedback sooner, we only literally signed over to the buyers.

Currently I feel many of the companies are going to experience a lack of profit making, the only ones to succeed would be those who already have the production lines setup. Unlike Bitcoin (SHA256) miners the demand wont be as much, and not due to any other reasons but bad timing. If we werent experiencing downward pressure on prices Im pretty sure we'd see a big demand for scrypt miners, but fact is the only offerings are 5 figures plus which unfortunately price many people out (hobby enthusiast). If anyone has any other questions please feel free to PM myself.

Koolio