Bitcoin Forum

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3144840.msg32665550#msg32665550

This is crazy behavior from a DT-1 member, if he is this selfish in business why should we trust him as a DT-1 member?

Theymos - do you condone OG breaking the law?

Oh wow...  :o

Well, If he wasn't an insane malignant narcissist he might actually apologize, but.... Everyone can just keep waiting.... ::)

Theymos’ libertarian believes do not give a lot of weight to IP.

I don’t think it is clear that a trademark was infringed upon anyway. I would need to research IP laws to get a make a more authoritative statement on this.

What, you can't read? It's pretty clear to me.  ::)

Only a window licker like you would think otherwise..

The Bitcoin Penny Company website is pretty clear:

The desperation is strong here.

are you denying this as well then?

for someone who does not break the law you are on a bit of a roll recently!

So I'm a bit confused:
 ''1. I did not give permission to OgNasty to either (A) make the Nasty Penny or (B) to use our trademarked "Bitcoin Penny" in its name.''

So he only copied the name ''penny'' by writing it as ''nastypenny''? Or did he also copy the other text or images?

What do you expect from someone who is utterly delusional and obviously is suffering from paranoid schizophrenia? ... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3160695.msg32677479#msg32677479

If I'm not forgetting something, the coin did have "in code we trust" which their trademark

Not backing any sides here but I wish some of the more senior guys on this forum would bury the hatchet and move on.

Constant bickering and throwing shit in public doesnt do the forums' image or crypto in general any good.

Considering that he committed several criminal offenses like defamation, extortion, false representation, trademark infringement and whatever (tax evasion?) and that you have his visage and location, it could be anytime soon!

Extortion committed: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1589940.msg16251261#msg16251261

When the asshole stops siccing people who got scammed in his own escrow thread on me for no reason, yeah, I'll stop. until then, he needs to make some apologies. But, he won't, he'll just double down. So you can blame him, I tried ending it all, but then this happened - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3160695.msg32677479#msg32677479

Thanks. :)

I don't think their attacks will stop until they're banned or find a personal life.  The amount of time they're dedicating to try and harm my reputation is shocking.  I hope someone is paying for them to waste the time they have on this earth so recklessly.  Certainly I have better things to spend my time on than responding to one ludicrous claim after another on a daily basis.

Maybe you should consider that you have pissed a lot of people off, committed defamation/libel (see my link above) - BTW, I'm not going to be banned, so try harder....

Nobody is paying me shit. You literally pissed me off and stepped over the line. I haven't scammed anyone, ever. Take responsibility for the newbies who get scammed in your thread, don't sic them on innocent people.

Btw, I haven't been trolling you, you are just insane... Yeah I wore a signature with a joke about your scam club, so what? Learn to take a joke and get those worms looked at bro. they may have something to do with how fucking stupid and hard-headed you look all the time.  LMFAO....

Edit - And now you are accusing one of the most trustworthy makers/sellers here, Bitcoinpenny of being a "Liar"? Wow, man... You are on a crime-roll, huh? :P

Not taking any sides either and although it does seem that he did copy them in this particular case how come he hasn't received 1 negative rating ever from any DT-1 member if it's so clear that he committed several criminal offenses as many of you stated in this thread and other threads

Fear of his bullying and constant retaliations, that and the fact he is still treasurer of the forum.. well until Theymos gets with the program and moves to multi sig (og will never do multi sig as he is better)

check the trust page of anyone who speaks out against him for proof..

Bitcoinpenny approached me asking me to do products like this, not the other way around.  I didn't infringe anything.  If he wants to change his story now, he is free to try and prove his case with a lawyer.  I suspect they will find his claim just as ludicrous.  

Cool so no denial that you didn't make this coin.. can I ask when you got your license to sell loaded coins?

as its 2 areas of the law you have fucked with on this product fella!

Mr I don't break any laws!

In order to respect digicoinuser's request to take this conversation off his current sale thread, I will post my response here.


The trademark infringement has nothing to do with him reselling my own product. It is about him infringing on the trademarked name Bitcoin Penny™, as clearly seen in his original post:


Additionally, there should have been a clear disclaimer that this was NOT a collaboration. He did avoid the use of the word "collaboration," but it still appears as one, so it should have been made clear that it was NOT a collaboration.

As for the doodle, that was free to him with his order of our prototype Mini Physicals. Everyone who order our prototype Mini Physicals received a doodle. His was not special in any way.


True. I like collabs, and at that point in time, OgNasty still had a good name.


LOL That's funny. That's the same reason I decided not to collab with him on future products. He tried to price gouge me on having custom doodle coins made. Obviously, I passed on his offer. :)


No, I did not. You are the liar here.

Regards,
Chris

EDIT:


I may have approached OgNasty (I can't remember at this point, but I'll trust his memory about this) about doing a collaboration. That sounds like something I might do. I love collaborations. But to say that I approached him about doing "products like this" is a vague way to say that it wasn't this product, but that it was simply a collectible (maybe coin?) project. We NEVER discussed using one of our prototype Mini Physicals with his hand-scissored holo stickers. If my name were attached to the product, then Iwould have insisted on a pro-made holo sticker.

Additionally, I stated openly that "I chose to believe that it was a simple, unintentional, and excusable oversight on OgNasty's part." I would never bother to pursue legal action over a minor 10-coin infringement, especially for something that I viewed as forgivable. However, at this point, I'm beginning to think that it was not a simple, unintentional oversight on OgNasty's part.

I no longer have a good name?  I have the highest trust rating on this site...  You decided not to collaborate with me?  This is a flat out lie.  You have now lost all your credibility with me sir.  We both know I ended talks of collaborations with you when you tried to charge me a 400% markup to your retail pricing for your last roll of coins because they were supposedly sold out, only to then offer hundreds more for sale later.  Your business practices are why I wouldn't work with you anymore.  Not the other way around.  The only reason I didn't make your lies and price gouging attempts public at the time was because I figured it was better to just distance myself from you since others seemed to like your products.  That's the truth.

You don't have a trademark on the name NastyPenny.  Nice to see you finally go public as a member of the pitchfork club so people can be aware of your shady pricing attempts.  Your attempts to sell a manhole cover for thousands of dollars being a good example. 

lies - attack - lies - wait? where is your only single defender? the greatly trusted Quickspazzer??

The real answer is that TMAN delusionally believes if I were disgraced that his buddies would somehow talk theymos into letting them replace me as the treasurer here.  So their little circle spends hours on a daily basis trying to sully my reputation.  It is pathetic, and I would avoid doing business with anyone who aligns themselves or condones this sort of behavior.

Of course, I don't have a trademark on the name "NastyPenny." I never claimed to have one on the name "NastyPenny." However, I do have a trademark on "Bitcoin Penny." Inserting the word "Nasty" into the middle of "Bitcoin Penny" is the infringement.

Regards,
Me

I believe that my point on this subject has been made clear. I have very little more to say. Have a good day.

Regards,
Chris

No OG I and many others dislike you and your draconian attitude to everything.. You being Treasurer when you say you are better than multi sig is an insult to Bitcoin, your bullying from your DT-1 Position is also a centralized kick in the bollocks of Bitcoin..

Many people despise you but are scared to speak out for fear of the revenge red paint you give..

I also like to point out that you are far from a law abiding citizen..

Thank you for making it crystal clear the type of person you are for those who may not have been aware.  This line of thinking is so anti-Bitcoin community, I'm just going to let it speak for itself.

I am no expert on IP law, however I don’t think this would be an infringement. The infringement, if one exists would be from the use of “in code we trust” on the backside of the coin (he didn’t use your actual coin, did he? If so then I don’t think there is any grounds to argue infringement) where it said “in code we trust” and similar.

As I mentioned previously, additional research needs to be done on IP law to give an opinion one way or another.

Cases of trademark infringement are rarely open and shut and as such these types of disputes can result in litigation, the outcome of which is often unclear until a ruling has been made.

He did use a bitcoinpenny coin - so you agree that is trademark infringement

No. I am not sure how I could have been more clear in my post..

by not making it?? you provide 0 value

I'm not an IP lawyer either but doing a minor change doesn't get you a free pass. Like I can't be like Quick Bestseller, as I did very little changes, even the courts/juries are not dumb otherwise we'd have a metric ton of "technically" not infringement names, trademarks, say Hungry Games, A Ballad of Ice and Fire, etc

But again the actual results depends on the actual litigation the extent of the damage done (AKA how much has the guilty person made off the item), what the licenses were there on the product, was there a contract between the parties which implied consent, etc.

I don’t think you understand what trademark infringement is.

Correct!

Trademark: "Mercedes Benz"

Trademark infringement: "Mercedes Nasty Benz"  :D

What an insult!

However it doesn't work like that. First of all you can't claim to have copyrights on the word ''bitcoin'' nor the word ''penny'' They only have copyrights on  ''BitcoinPenny'' as a whole, not separate. You can't claim copyright if someone decides to use ''bitcoin'' or ''penny'' just like ''wholefoods'' would not be able to claim copyright if someone uses the word food.

Do you mean if someone uses "BtcoinPenny" = trademark infringement and if someone uses "Bitcoin Penny" = no trademark infringement?

Does he claim copyright because someone uses "bitcoin" or "penny" or does he claim copyright because someone uses both and added Nasty between it?

As far as I can tell, the only part of the trademark used was the word “penny”. (Someone can correct me if I missed something).

True, sort of. You're right that no person/company can trademark the individual words "bitcoin" or "penny." However, they can trademark the combination of those words, as in "Bitcoin Penny™." It's the same as the words "home" and "depot." Individually, they are non-trademarkable. Together, they are 100% trademarked.

Additionally, it's not just the words themselves that carry trademark weight. It's the category of product or service where that trademark is used. I am totally within my rights to create a hand-knit woolen doll that looks like a snow monster and call it the "Yeti" doll. However, I can not create a new beer cooler and call it the "Yeti" cooler without infringing upon an established trademark.


It's trademark infringement "because someone uses both and added Nasty between it."

In court, the question would be asked, "Would the average, reasonable consumer expect that the 'Bitcoin NastyPenny™' was affiliated with 'Bitcoin Penny™'?" If the answer is "yes," then it's trademark infringement. That's the whole reason for trademark law--to protect unknowing consumers from purchasing a service or product from one person/business while thinking it was affiliated with a different person/business. That's why they invented trademarks, to differentiate the service or product of one business from the service or product from another business. It's really very simple.

In this particular case, it boils down to the above question: "Would the average, reasonable consumer expect that the 'Bitcoin NastyPenny™' was affiliated with 'Bitcoin Penny™'?"

If the answer is "yes," then it's trademark infringement. If the answer is "no," then it's not trademark infringement.

Personally, I believe the answer is "yes." However, since we're not taking this to court, then it's really a moot point.

Regards,
Me

PS -- To play devil's advocate (because I find doing so exercises the mind), one might attempt to argue on OgNasty's behalf that the use of "Bitcoin NastyPenny™" should be allowable via protected parody laws. It may be a stretch to consider the product as a legally-defined parody, but it's worth considering as a possible exemption from trademark infringement.

As far as I can tell, that's more than just using the word "penny".

OgNasty claims that Bitcoin NastyPenny™ is a registered trademark?

Where is his trademark registration?

Also, to avoid misunderstoods, whether you write it like this Bitcoin NastyPenny™ or like this BitcoinNastyPenny™ or even like this Bitcoin Nasty Penny™ does not play any role.

How are the Chinese getting away with their similarly sounding copycat branding? They are legally selling copycat products in direct competition with the companies they are copying from. What's the difference between BitcoinPenny/BitcoinNastyPenny and, for example, Nokia/Nokla or RedBull/RidBull or StarBucks/StarFucks?

It's a good question, Wendigo. "The Chinese" is a broad statement. I assure you that Nokia, RedBull, and Starbucks all pursue trademark infringement lawsuits with the companies who infringe. (Usually, all it takes is a letter from Nokia's legal department.) However, as soon as one company is court-ordered to stop production or simply shut-down for illegal operations without permits, another pops up in its place. There isn't just a single "Chinese" manufacturer doing all the infringing with knock-off products. Counterfeiting is big business. Often, it's worth the hassle to sell a few knock-offs, pay a few fines, close-up shop, then re-open somewhere on the next block.

Regards,
Chris

The answer is no because bitcoin and penney are common words now.  Also, a trademark can be invalid even if it was issued a while back.  If the term becomes common, anyone in dispute could file a petition to cancel that trademark.

"International" is a common word. "Business" is a common word. "Machines" is a common word. Try starting a computer company called "International Business Machines," and see how that works out for you. ;)

Regards,
Chris

This post should not be construed as legal advice.

Based upon my review of relivant (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/1114) law, and the facts surrounding the sale of OgNasty’s “bitcoin NastyPenny” I would say the case for trademark infringement is far from an open and shut case.

The standard for infringement appears to be if the use of a trademark (or something very similar to a trademark) is likely to cause confusion to a consumer.  One important fact is that OgNasty was in fact selling a product named in the trademark with additional “features”.

Although not pertinent to the legal evualation of the situation, bitcoinpenny did post that OgNasty’s sale of the coins were seen positively by what is essentially a portion of his customer base. I would suggest that he at least make an evualation as to if OgNasty’s specific use of bitcoin and penny have a net positive impact on his business— if so he should consent to the limited use of his trademark, making the question of infringement moot.

That is invalid argument.  There are classes of trademarks called “famous” IBM is one of them.  You don’t have a famous trademark here. IBM, Coke, xerox, MasterCard, visa etc etc.. are examples of famous trademarks.

Ignoring wannabe intertubes lawyers for a minute, what exactly is Og trying to achieve here? It looks like even if there was some talk about cooperation with BitcoinPenny in the past - that's no longer in effect. I can't imagine it's good for Og's business to have this kind of dispute hanging over it. So what's the benefit for Og to keep being a stubborn asshole about it?

I spent like two hours reading various Og-themed threads and I feel dumber now. Help me out here.

Because he can never admit when he's wrong, or out of line, so he just lies and obfuscates. You saw my thread right? He still won't answer whether or not he wrote that PM i have screenshot of... I just assume that whenever he just gives up like this, he knows he has lost and moves on. Kinda like our buddy Quicksy...

Picture a green Donald Trump, and there is your Ognasty (https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/neurosagacity/201702/how-recognize-malignant-narcissist).

 :D

I read your thread and a half-dozen other threads and I can't say that I'm any closer to understanding the rationale of Og's behavior. Maybe I shouldn't even try.

You can't, I believe you are Inteligent and can admit when you are wrong. OG is dumb and will always fight even if he is obviously wrong

This, exactly... I also believe most of us here are not insane narcissists exhibiting paranoid/delusional behavior.   ::)

I would like to see the registration of the Bitcoin NastyPenny™?

® means there is a registered trademark....^TM means a trademark is claimed...

Wikipedia says (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark_symbol): Use of the trademark symbol (™) indicates an assertion that a word, image, or other sign is a trademark;

Do you mean OgNasty requested it to become a trademark? If so, where?

Why do you blindly support OG in every thread? Do you not think he could be wrong even once? It's like rowing with the Mrs with you two, perfection and never putting a foot wrong?

I would advise that you read up on trademark law.

Why do you blindly support OG in every thread? Do you not think he could be wrong even once? It's like rowing with the Mrs with you two, perfection and never putting a foot wrong?

NastyDynasty™


QuickNasty the slob cum of balding grown affected with kwashiorkor.

I just want to know where OgNasty claimed / requested to let Bitcoin NastyPenny™ become a trademark? In San Diego?

If he did not make an official claim or request, based on what circumstances or laws has he the right to claim that Bitcoin NastyPenny™ is a trademark?

I have searched for these trademarks on both www.tmdn.org and tmsearch.uspto.gov and it seems pretty clear that neither bitcoinpenny nor nastypenny are registered trademarks and there is not even an application for a trademark. I know how an application for trademark looks like on these search websites and there is none of those.

To me it seems that penny is such a common word that nobody can claim owning all possible <word>penny combinations like Bitcoinpenny seems to claim to own. To me it looks like this is an issue that is possible to have differing opinions and who is right can only be settled in court if somebody wants to take it that far but I would not hold my breath since nobody has spent even a much smaller amount of money to file for the trademark.

You don't necessarily need to register a trademark to claim copyright. ''Merely using a trademark in the marketplace confers rights, such as prohibiting people from copying it in order to create confusion among consumers.''

However trademark infringements only happen when there is confusion in the market. I don't think BitcoinPenny is famous enough for NastyPenny to cause any confusion.

''In order to serve as a trademark, a mark must be distinctive -- that is, it must be capable of identifying the source of a particular good. In determining whether a mark is distinctive, the courts group marks into four categories, based on the relationship between the mark and the underlying product: (1) arbitrary or fanciful, (2) suggestive, (3) descriptive, or (4) generic. Because the marks in each of these categories vary with respect to their distinctiveness, the requirements for, and degree of, legal protection afforded a particular trademark will depend upon which category it falls within.''

BitcoinPenny would fall into category 4, generic. Like a business called ''computers'' or ''shoes''

Generic marks are entitled to no protection under trademark law. Thus, a manufacturer selling "Computer" brand computers would have no exclusive right to use that term with respect to that product. Generic terms are not protected by trademark law because they are simply too useful for identifying a particular product.

I believe we can conclude that OGNasty is not guilty of any trademark infringements.

Too many threads in Trading Discussion sub about OgNasty, I know him from previous and never saw anyone challanging him so much as i see these days.
These threads omen something bad  :(

The reasoning behind it is OG's absolute persecution complex and vindictive behavior.  He has a huge amount of power over the trust system and people are scared to act out, I have had numerous contacts from people thanking me for speaking out and taking the retaliatory negs that he rains down, he freely admits to hitting out with negs against anyone who speaks out against him.

it is blatantly clear that his business is a ponzi - buy asking people who want more return on their investment to bring more funds in. It is also clear that by selling loaded coins when he isn't licensed to do so he is showing no regard for US law. The bloke is a special character who never seems to believe he does anything wrong, he must be from Mars like Lauda if you ask me as every single human on this planet has made a mistake or two in life, well other than OG that is..

I previously saw the post where IPO was made as charity. Frankly in former days we or anyone(average user) had no idea of camouflage ponzi schemes this might be the same case with OgNasty, I have evolved and learnt many things here sometime i am wrong also.
What i personally believe( No one should buy it if they dont agree to it ) is that Mr should take a vacation for a month as it will ward off all bad omen that is about to happen in future. Constant fear will lead to bad business, seeing the infringement scenario i am perplexed.

You got that right fella - people are evolving here and some people are happy to speak out against the tyrant that is OG.. please be aware he is likely to neg you or block you from the DT Network if you speak out like this. check out his trustlist if you need any proof, the majority of people who he has excluded have spoken out against him and his get rich shit, if you analyse it all he seems to be a character who wants to take the easy route all the time