Bitcoin Forum

1FfmbHfnpaZjKFvyi1okTjJJusN455paPH

Has received 144,336.39429472 BTC today, with a starting balance of 0

What is this?

DPR?

Exchange cold wallet?

~ $25 millie

DPRs $80 millie was never accurate.  $25 could be..

So what is the reasoning for the 354BTC transactions?

Just looking at this on blockchain.info. Interesting. Why 324?

Looking back in the transactions a bit, these go back to some old addresses...

Im no good at digging this stuff, but.. what might that mean?

Example: https://blockchain.info/address/1M2TBBkAESfiyKsmqDKsLxD6oC4bvM8WQx

Looks like a bunch of 10k+ addresses fed this one.

Probably related to a gambling site

Be nice if someone could run an analysis of the blockchain, and see if it links back to the Altoid posted address.

This is part of Bitcoins' Magic. The crowd can look into the wallet of the rich and spekulate about it ...

To make this thing more scary, there is a coincidence with a new conspiracy theory about the silk road bust, which I thin is untrue, but gains value as a storyboard. Maybe you know, http://www.reddit.com/r/SilkroadUNcensored/comments/1p0ogt/time_to_let_the_cat_out_of_the_hat/

Its written in weird language, so I give you the details: He claims, SR was not seized, but all was a scam. In the days before the socalled seizure, there would have happened a lot of complain by users, they couldn't logg in, couldn't free their coins, etc. Theory is, the admins just run away with the money.

I don't believe this theory, but I like it, cause the storyline is 2 big 2 fail 2 make me brainrisseling ... this adress would be the top of the story

I thought that story was some pretty awesome conspiracy theory porn, but I don't know how believable it is.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/10/25/fbi-says-its-seized-20-million-in-bitcoins-from-ross-ulbricht-alleged-owner-of-silk-road/

Looks like it's the FBI's address

Holy shit!

I hope we see them get sent to gox, bitstamp, and china lmfao

we always thought that would be very expensive for the authorities  buy large quantities of btc and then destabilize the price, but steal it is free ....

Coincidence of the timing of this news release?

GHash.IO collecting payouts?

Just for clarity, they are NOT the FBI's bitcoins now.   Like all seized assets, IF the accused is convicted (that takes some time although less time if he has no money and is going to use a PD) then the FBI will liquidate these seized assets.   Cash, they keep.   Everything else gets auctioned off.   It is likely these BTC wallet(s) will be auctioned IF a conviction is achieved.

Now we know what's up. 144k BTC for the FBI.

All your BTC are belong to US.

Can anyone confirm any of the addresses?  It looks like there's a note on some of the transactions.

That's not necessarily true. It may be true in most criminal forfeitures, but not civil forfeitures. The government in this case, AFAIK, can file a civil forfeiture case in parallel to the criminal case, suing the property, and if Ulbricht can't prove they aren't proceeds of illegal activity, they are the government's. No need for conviction in that case. No idea what they are doing, though.

Good. 170k BTC out of the market.
Up, up, up!

Right, they're just going to throw the key away..

I'm surprised another panic shit-storm hasn't struck (down to ~$160/165)

That article implies that the FBI might not have the private key to that address. It's very confusing. What did they seize exactly?

edit: They must have the key since the funds were moved today. IMO, this is bearish because newcomers to BTC will think that it can easily be confiscated. I'm surprised the private key(s) wasn't hidden better.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2013/10/04/fbi-silk-road-bitcoin-seizure/

“We will probably just liquidate them.”

Good. 170k BTC back on the market after a while.

They're not selling them on MtGox, Bitstamp, or BTC-e, either...

I actually did some research with another guy about who might be the top 10 richest bitcoin users.

What we found out was 4-5 different accounts being used by the same person, who owned around 40k bitcoins on each account. He didn't seem like the richest one, but he surely was.

And 2-3 accounts who held up 30K which was being used by another user.

Theres some really wealthy people out there...

Colour me surprised.

I'd REALLY like to know the exact details of how they got them.

Cracked his password?
Rubber hose?
Other?

It seemed to me, with probably going to jail for life, there would be little incentive to willingly give them up.

IF they put all their coins up for sale right now, what would the price drop to?

How would they do this?

Maybe they send them to gox :=))))

You have to remember that DPR was being watched for months, I suspect from about May onwards. The FBI are very crafty. They could have very easily broken in and put a key logger on his machine that he wouldnt detect. I bet the gov has many tools that arent available to the most savvy of hackers.. So, it would make sense that they would have a ton of info..

I was watching one of those FBI real life shows the other night on how they do pretty much what I just said. They would stage a car wreck to close off the street while their agents were in the house putting bugs, etc.. so, ulbricht goose was cooked probably by late spring...

talk about a trophy catch for the FBI though. could be billions one day

So , all those who said  that they will never get hit bitcoins....how long did it take , 1 month? =)))))))))))))))0

http://www.abload.de/img/cryptonerdcomic1ro6z.jpg

whoa... thanks for posting the link, some heavy tinfoilstuff goin' on there, esp. the theory about the gawker journalist being involved.

yea, with the forbes-article its officialy untrue, but nice for imagination :)

The second the FBI can sell the bitcoins, they will.  I just wonder if they will dump them on the market all at once or be smart and do it over a 2-3 month period.. They would get a lot more. But I dont see them holding much. THey will hold some, so they can use bitcoins in other investigations, trust me, that will happen, but they will sell the majority..

They will sell them at auction like all property they seize.

That would be interesting if they put up 40 million dollars worth of bitcoins, I doubt they will auction that off, just like they dont auction off cash... at an auction, they wont get as much as if they sold at an exchange, but this is the govt we are talking about. they always do things the most difficult and most expensive way possible...

We are at least a couple years away (if not more) from them selling them anyways, by that time, the bitcoin price will probably be a lot higher.. They cant do a thing until the case is settled...

Auctioning cash makes no sense.  Do you want to buy these dollars for some dollars? ::)

Auctioning off multimillion dollar homes and boats, however, the do.

could they throw the coins back into the systems of tor marketplaces to trace them to several merchant wallets, or is that senseless because of the mixing services there?

That was my whole point.... They would probably treat bitcoin as fiat, (this is new to them, so it will be interesting to see how they sell it.. but I dont think it would be by an auction, but you never know.)

Well, one thing is for sure, DPR was not nearly as clever as people gave him credit for.

Someone as high profile as himself should at the very least have had multiple small wallets with security contingency protocols in case something happened to him. His lawyers could have put those contingencies into action.

This is now the top story at forbes.com.

It was also pointed out by Mike Caldwell in the Press section that "FBI" encodes as "324" on a telephone pad.  Does that not seem like too much fanfare for the FBI?

No, not really that much fanfare, just their way to celebrate and rub it on the "criminals"* faces. I've seen cops in my country drawing their initials(PJ, GNR, PSP) with the bank notes they seize, when showing off the stash to the media.

*"Criminals" because when the cops do that most of said "criminals" weren't found yet to be guilty of any crime by a court of law.

Is FBI FinCEN compliant? :P
I thought FinCEN said Bitcoin is money, US regulators have to get their shit together!...

FBI is exempt from money transmitter regulations

Spells FBI on phone? I don't know.

I thought FinCEN was on top of MIB, who are on top of NSA, which is on top of FBI/CIA... :)

http://www.fincen.gov/financial_institutions/msb/definitions/exceptions.html

I know mate, I am just joking because there was a guy from Free Banking site who was spreading FUD about the power of FinCEN on Bitcoin.
I deleted and blocked him from my Facebook page - he was the one that made an interview in a radio show, maybe 'Let's Talk Bitcoin', not sure...

guess its worth the shot to try to mine the private key of this address

if God is on your side...

If you joke requires such a lengthy explanation, involving experiences you had on different web site, it's probably not a good joke :P.

I think you might be too late

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/security.png

Mine to spend the coins...

FBI didn't even pay fees on any of their transactions...

Will

Please educate a noob.  How does the address get labeled "DPR Seized Coins"?  How is consensus reached out something like that, or is that strictly something blockchain.info adds?

a bitcoin address can be voluntarily tagged with a name and link by supplying a website that contains the address.

https://blockchain.info/tags

Will

Ok, thanks.  So can someone just override that or did blockchain.info "verify" it via the link (and basically say that, yes, "DPR Seized Coins" is basically accurate)?

it's only labeled on the blockchain.info website, the label has nothing to do with the bitcoin protocol

So what happens if the Feds sell the Bitcoins to J.P. Morgan and they used them for manipulating the Bitcoin markets just like they manipulate the gold and silver markets?

Could this spell the end of Bitcoin?

Just the end of the beginning.

I don't usually write in speculation forum, but here's what I have to say.

Guess: DPR will face a difficult trial. Most likely, it will take at least 12 months to get a verdict, assuming he's not gonna plea guilty.
Fact: FBI HAS some +170k coins  . Valued at about 30 mil USD, they cannot sell them on eBay/MtGox/Bitcoinica. They can keep them (they can invoke some reasons for that) or auction them AFTER the trial. The problem is, while BTC rises in value, the US Govt gets a fuckin' ton of BTC (money is not important). But power it is.

Meanwhile little boys and girls, bears, bulls, whales, manipulators, speculators and ever single living person knowing about bitcoin were busy "making profit", big guys had a solid agenda. Don't be fooled even for one second that they were chasing SilkRoad, to shut it down because it sold drugs and guns. No. They were chasing down a movement. They were chasing bitcoin. Even if they didn't confiscate any coins, they would still be winners because they shut down the first, biggest illegal bitcoin marketplace. Cum laudae.

So, what can be done about this? One hard thing. Take out your coins from exchanges, into your wallets, make stashes, unite, fight. Create 100 silkroads. 1000 exchanges. 10,000 services and business.

The Dutch police seized 56 Bitcoins this Monday from some hackers who had phished bank account details and had converted the money they stole into Bitcoin. The police immediately sold the Bitcoins and transferred the received euro's to their own account. Can't the FBI do that as well? Or do they have to keep hanging on to them until the trial ends. What if DPR is acquited after let's say 5 years and he would receive his money back. Do they then give him the USD value of the Bitcoins today or the Bitcoins themselves. I guess this is new legal territory.

I'm no lawyer, but I would think they'd have to hold on to the bitcoins through the trial.  If they confiscated, say, a Shelby GT500 from you and you got off, they'd have to give you the car back, right...  not the cash?

Sold how?  To whom?  Which exchange and at what rate?

How about releasing a new fork of bitcoin marking that address as invalid? :) Of course it should be implemented as silently as possible, so no word gets out to cops. It would be a fun "politicalmove" an "exertion of power"

Of course it breaks the whole system, but once, just for this case?  ;)

Why bother?  Isn't the fact that the all mighty FBI had to follow bitcoin protocol rules and transfer the coins to their own wallet statement enough?

Not any more of a statement than them having to generate x86 code if they want to run it on most computers out there.

Not sure I follow you.  Previous poster wants to "show them" with his misguided plan.  I'm simply pointing out bitcoin already "showed them" so to speak.  That is assuming they didn't brute force the private key.  If they did it would seem silly to bother seizing something of no value.  Unless you think bitcoin has value even if private keys can be brute forced.

Legally, I see no reason why they can't file for civil forfeiture in parallel to the criminal case. In which case, they don't need to wait to auction them off. Unless of course, Ulbricht can prove an innocent owner defense.

They can't manipulate the market very much with so few coins, and what little they could do would just enrich traders at the FBI's expense.

Even if the price goes up 100x by the time they sell the coins, and they sell for $2 billion, it will still be about the same effect on the market. They're probably eager to liquidate them ASAP lest they lose out on their millions, but even if the FBI people are Bitcoin bulls they still will only have a very small percentage of the market cap, whether they sell it for 20 million or 20 billion. Their stash cannot grow in value without the market growing by about the same degree. (The error is ceteris paribus assumptions, or "near-field thinking.")

they never do this.  they do not care and it is not theirs until they convict.   just go to some of the government auction sites and you will seen range rovers and ferraris that have been RUINED by sitting years waiting for the conviction of the drug dealer that had NO other source of income.
they will auction these as they do gold and silver that is seized.

They could put $3million worth on bitstamp and the price would be $0.01/btc.
They could put $17million worth on mtgox and the price would be $0.01/btc.

So they would completely crash bitcoin.

?Thats bullshit.

A 300k sell is needed to take the price below $0.50 on Gox.

Too risky to buy now, we won't know how they would use the seized coins.

:D

so predictable 

So the police teach the thieves a lesson by stealing their stolen money  ;D

I read some news reports claiming that, while most of the reports that came out at the same time stated they confiscated the bitcoins which could be converted in to 7700 euro. I think the media that reported the bitcoins had been sold misunderstood, it seems highly unlikely to me. First of all, you dont liquidate seized assets before you get a conviction. Imagine they would not be convicted for whatever reason (procedural error or whatever) and released a year from here, and bitcoin meanwhile surged to $1000. Bit of a problem.

Secondly, there is no obvious way for the police to liquidate these bitcoins so quickly. Are we to believe they already had a verified account at mtgox or btc-e ?

Is this source reliable? It looks pretty childish and unprofessional to send with multiple 324XBT transaction, just to show they are FBI.

Cool stuff. Readers of this might be interested in how the bitcoins are distributed in general (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=316297.0), and what would happen if 200k was sold.

STFU, moron...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=316855.0

I can't imagine someone at the FBI doing the transfers slowly in 324 units. It would be madness and the supervising officer would surely wonder why it's taking so long.

Also, why would the FBI want to tag their transfers?

I like a good conspiracy story as much as the next person but this one is a little wide of reality.

F@ck him, in real life I bet he is a pussy...

I don't know if this is sufficient evidence but it's all I could do with Google. Here's the FBI website:

http://www.fbi.gov/newyork/

http://www.fbi.gov/newyork/press-releases/2013/manhattan-u.s.-attorney-announces-seizure-of-additional-28-million-worth-of-bitcoins-belonging-to-ross-william-ulbricht-alleged-owner-and-operator-of-silk-road-website


I know the two links are to the same source but the rest of the news articles and Wikipedia pages pointed to the same places so I figured it was a good start.

I can't confirm the story wasn't planted or that the website hasn't been hacked though so you'll have to take my word for it that I'm not involved.

I like the irony that now if Bitcoin pumpers drive the price up they essentially giving the FBI money. ;D

Exactly. Good point.