Bitcoin Forum

Completely 100% agree.

Little problem here, Bitmain is rich.. really rich... How to win?

BITMAIN are centralizing things and some people don't have balls to fight against

Many Chinese biz almost doing the hidden and dirty biz. They only try make money as much as much as they can
they don't care about the world, environment etc.
just for you know China is the largest holder of US debt. ANd now Trump wanna start trade war with them...

There were a lot of rumour about such actions. that all ASICs manufacturer before delivering batches mine some coins and then dispatch the shipment. Sadly there is no proofs, but some miners have spotted diff spikes right after news modes of Asics announcements..

Alot of older ASIC's came with a lot of dust in them  ;)

They are smarter now and "clean" them with pressurized air  :o

They do not move for profit. They test the miners to make sure if QA is up to their standards, sometime for up to 6+ months.
Lmao

So wait bit coin cash and bitmen are the same?

ASIC coming at affordable price without being disruptive and OP respond : "Muh fork, it's gonna kill gpu mining."

I think OP just raging because he bought 1500 GPU last week or something like that.

The only reason they are getting ready to sell for cheap is that they are ready to start "testing" the next version that will do 1000MH/s+ and they know these will be useless along with all GPU's.

first batch come in july. $900 for 180MH/s. and now of course they are mining as much as they can then pump ETH price right before delivery

How do you know they are mining it??

How do I know you're not Santa Claus and don't live at the North Pole?

There is no proof, and they would have no desire for knowledge of their "testing" to be publicly available.

But when you have a situation like what happened with Cryptonight/Monero, when despite GPUs being sold out across the board and Coin price dropping yet the network continues to grow exponentially in hashrate, something else in driving that increase. Ergo, probably ASICs.

The real question isn't how do you know they are, it's why wouldn't they be mining it? Wouldn't you? Following money, motives, and incentives usually paints a clearer picture than the limited "factual" evidence you have available.

Simple logic, don't buy ASICs from Bitmain.

That's the first battle, easy.

The second is for all pools and blockchain to enable rejection on ASIC mined shares. Difficult but addressable.

There is a good chance that Bitmain will be uncovered and shut down in China but sounds like most of the company work from Taiwan now.

Not only that but there are other companies that are following suit.

https://whattomine.com/coins/151-eth-ethash?utf8=%E2%9C%93&hr=200&p=800&fee=2.0&cost=0.1&hcost=800&commit=Calculate

Not buying ASICs from one is from one thing, but that doesn't stop bitmain from mining with what they developed.

Yeah but when they get to mine for six months or more and then also sell these same fucking used as new to the idiots out there who won't learn it even helps thier monopoly more

thats more money for RND and also lets the risk it all on any all all algos with zero fear since they know they can sell these heaters to those dumbasses

It's a battle hard to win and fight against Bitmain. Like mentioned, Bitmain has A LOT OF money and thanks to that they can basically do what they want. I do not think that some people going REEEEEEEE... would make them play fair. However sad that is, it's the truth.

Gpu mining cannot be killed that easily. Bitmain maybe mining Ethereum but for the gpu miners there are a lot of other coins which are based on Ethereum like Pirl, Music and a few others. Their difficulty is relatively low to mine and I am happily mining Musicoin because my 3GB Gpus cannot write the dag epoch 179 which is the actual one.

As for bitmain first thing to do if you want to fight them is to stop buying their products, but this will never happen since they produce the best miners for the moment.

As for bitmain first thing to do if you want to fight them is to stop buying their products

This +1

R.I.P ETH .... Think ppl ... ETH will fork soon. The miners are delivered in late July ... that's for months from now and fork will happen before that ... Shitmain just cant deliver non working product to customers! Ppl will burn their office and they will be shot in public (I like that they do in China) lol

I'd like it to be true, but I think those who buy from bitmain today will continue to buy from bitmain tomorrow: bitmain is a giant because it earns a lot during the "test and pre-mine phase", before shipping.
Then, they sell them, adding money to money.
Those who are looking for a quick gain, even if for a limited time, will still buy.
Imho, noone will stop bitmain now, except cn government.

Given the relatively LOW performance of the E3, even if Bitmain WAS mining on a lot of them (unlikely) before they announced them, they had little or no impact on ETH profitability.
They're WORSE efficiency than a well-tuned 6-card GTX 1070 rig, about the same vs a 6-card RX 470/480/570/580 rig - the only reason they might make SOME dent into GPU mining is the low price Bitmain set them at and that is going to be a SMALL dent unless Bitmain literally sells SEVERAL HUNDRED THOUSAND of these particular ASIC units.

1 MILLION of these units sold wouldn't achieve 50% of ETH total network hashrate - and even Bitmain would need a very long time to build and sell a million of these.


The sky not only is not falling, it's barely even a light drizzle....

I think that E3 is a good replacement for some amd eth gpu rigs: about same cost, lower power usage.
And it is a good add-on for nvidia gpu rigs, that usually are not used for ethash mining.

That said, I agree with you: E3 is not so powerful, maybe bitmain is just testing the market before releasing a new miner, perhaps E3+.

Hint: all the coins you mentioned CAN be mined by Bitmain's ASIC because they all use Ethash algorythm. Including Music, Pirl and so on.

is this surprising to ANYONE?

How many times do you have to get hit in the head with a rock before you start ducking?

Hello, you can continue dreaming, bitmain new eth miner was sold out in few hours if not few minutes.

Bitmain typical batch size is only around 3000 for most of their miners though.
3000 isn't going to even make a NOTICEABLE dent in the recent "slow drop" of Ethereum network hashrate, especially when they don't arrive for over 2 months.

Also, they are NOT sold out on the E3, the "one click buy" button is still active.

This is what happens when you folks allowed the bitmain asic  sia miner to come out and play.  You and the Sia Devs allowed bitmain to rule. So quit crying you asked for it and now you will have to face the consequences of your poor actions.

Is it so hard for one Developer to make a mining program that will recognize if you use GPU or ASIC and if you use ASIC to reject all the shares ?

Everybody know this for a long time.
So don't buy their "products", don't use their pool, just ignore them.

Really agree. Jihan and his Bitmain is just sick greedy people.
Do you believe that they only have ETHASH ASIC miner at 180 MH/s? I bet they have more powerful than that under their wraps. This just a trojan horse to cover their greediness.
There are should be a movement against Sick Jihan and Bitmain!

A lot of new coins like Electroneum are catching onto this and purposely making their mining algorithms asic-resistant. Ultimately it will prevent major centralization in the long run. Right now, neither Bitcoin or ETH is ready to prevent that from happening.

There is no way they could do so that an ASIC designer couldn't match the applicable data submitted through careful design work.

as plaoc operative their missions is to try to kill all cryptos to try to close all financials gateway out of china... can they succeed? lol.... hehehe. we will soon have more chains that they have man power :D.

Keep in mind that Bitmain now makes as much money annually as does Nvidia. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/23/secretive-chinese-bitcoin-mining-company-may-have-made-as-much-money-as-nvidia-last-year.html

With an annual profit of between $3 to $4 Billion dollars, it is not hard to imagine that in an alternate universe such a company might just send off some "donations" to key developers for the several coins they make hardware for mining, thus keeping any proactive changes to stop them at a minimum.

Now before anyone gets all riled up, note that I said in a hypothetical alternate universe and I am not accusing anyone of anything. I am sure in our universe things are not that way and everyone is open and honest about their intentions. It wouldn't really be bribery anyway, just more a form of lobbying for their preferences as to which direction the coin goes.

Lol good luck with that...see the main problem with bitmain is not bitmain itself, its that everyone else in crypto is not here for the tech and what it means for society, but are just as greedy if not more than bitmain.

You tell me if you buy their ASICs or not when the one guy next you is making 100 bucks a day because he did.

without food and oil their little paper profits will not be eatable... and when the masses of china raise from unemployement, lack of food and shortage of oil... omg... it's gonna be an intense fireworks...

Even CNBC - which is NOT known for it's high-quality fact checking - presented that as a RUMOR, not as fact.

Known sales figures out of Bitmain make it plausable they might have managed a few billion in SALES in 2017, but even with their margins it's doubtful they had more PROFIT than Nvidia had (on MUCH higher sales).

They've also made mistakes - their Cryptonite miner will be DEAD IN THE WATER for the most part before they start delivering it (Monero has ALREADY forked to kill it, ETN has announced they'll be forking SOON for the same reason and probably will use the code and algorithm Monero moved to, there goes 90% of the current CN hashrate between those two leaving almost NO market for a CN miner at all even if NONE of the other CN coins change algorithm).
Their E3 is not looking too impressive either, though they probably will manage to sell some of them at the price they set on it.
Their SIA and X11 miners have overflooded the small markets to the point I doubt Bitmain could GIVE more of them away - and past the first batch on each I suspect they are going to end up LOSING MONEY to move the remaining production of both of those.

The biggest reason Bitmain still sells is that every other miner makers makes it an active PAIN for folks other than HUGE FARMS to buy their products, even where they ARE superior (A4, A5) or comparable (841, L21, others).

ETH will not fork... :(

Do I need to purchase the Antminer in order to mine the ETH and BTC? Where could I buy the Antminer?

I think the real question is... If someone invents a machine that prints money... Why would they ever sell it?

There is only one reason... If they can make more money by selling the money printing machine than the amount of money that the machine can print.

I sold out all  alt coins that ASIC can mine， and never buy one ASIC alt coin ，no matter what it is.

what i want to know is just who is the top miner on nanopool.

~1.9 TH on ETH
16,000 workers
each one about ~120MH

say each worker is made up of a 4x 30MH setup (like 1070s or RX 570/580), that's 64000 GPUs

say each worker is made up of a 6x 20MH setup (like 1060s, not OCed), thats 90,000 GPUs!

who is this? anyone have a clue? it just blows my mind that they have so many workers and they are all pretty much identical around 120MH

At $800 they were marginal but had a chance to achieve 100% ROI before ETH goes full Proof of Stake.
Batch 2 however went to $1800, which is INSANE.

My guess on that nanopool miner is that it's a large Chinese farm running 6-card 1060 rigs (or using the mining-specific version) - and having close hashrates on each rig just means they have a standardized setup they're sticking with (which makes LOTS OF SENSE on a large farm).


ETH devs have already announced they are NOT going to fork ETH over the E3 but reserve the option to fork if something more powerful shows up.

Bitmain is rich with newbies money buying thier asics.

and i think they are making the right move.

I'm still not convinced that the E3 is an ASIC, but rather just a GPU based setup with software patch ability. a fork would be in vain, and likely wouldnt affect the E3 anyway.

but then why would they price it at $800, once finding out there would be no fork from the dev community they upped their price to $1800.  Makes me feel like it is a poorly performing ASIC.

And what you bought, please?

I agree to Dump and more so advocate AGAINST Bcash.

Its important to remember that Bitman AND Roger are one in the same. Attached at the hip and are working to control Crypto as much as possible. They clearly want to replace bitcoin with Bcash. Roger must want to be Satoshi, more than anyone can ever know. delusions of grandeur;  I am sure he is way past caring about it on a personal financial level. its more about power i imagine.

there is a ton of public evidence about this and its well known but it is worth (continually) repeating.

Roger, BCASH and Bitman are enemies of decentralized Crypto; they want to rule it.

I am afraid it is far too late to do anything that will negatively affect Shitman. The only threat is the Chinese Government. Which is why Shitman is planing the move (to Canada). They have so much cash on hand they can literally buy their own country  (something i am sure they are considering) and if Crypto truly is the future we believe it will be, they will be bigger than FANG combined. (FB Apple Netchicks Google)

 This article below was written before Bcash was launched. 

https://medium.com/@WhalePanda/roger-ver-from-bitcoin-jesus-to-bitcoin-antichrist-69fc7a17c622

"The Chinese (mining) connection"
.......A few months later however Roger Ver went to China, did exactly the same and acted like it was completely normal. The only person that he managed to “turn” was Jihan Wu. Jihan had been very critical of Bitcoin Core and said that he felt pushed into the Hong Kong agreement, even though I didn’t see any guns or other weapons that forced him.
Another couple of weeks pass and suddenly ViaBTC is born, a completely new Chinese pool that, out of nowhere, has around 7–8% of the global hashrate. .........

centralization will be always needed for creating gpu's, asic miners, cloth's food and so on... if you want a fair fight, you have to start creating/produce your own products... and even on this point you still need to those corporations/company's that create the basic needs for making those cards, like sand, ... for making the PCB's you need people that harvest copper and other really expensive materials, company's that create chips, company's that create pins that fits on the pcb's and so on... So eventually if you buy from bitmain or from nvidea or from amd, you will ALWAYS give your money on dirty corporations/company's. that needs this sort of inequality, so you can buy your cards so cheap as possible.

if you really want a equality, then you are a dreamer. This has known since... always?

ps: sorry for my bad english, and my weird thought about bitmain and there new creation.

What is the attitude of ETC community towards the ASIC mining? If they change the PoW, I will support them.

I am also an opponent Asic. But there's nothing we can do. As long as it is profitable to use them. Even if no one buys asics it won't stop Bittman. What will disturb them to put their asics to work and destroy the network? It seems to me that protection from asics should be dealt with first of all by algorithm developers.

economies of scale and hedging.


forking the algos!!! there are more algos possible than stars :). remember it's just maths at the speed of light :).



I bet they are way more open to forking, it would be yuge, and maybe even lead them to depass eth (not in price as it has powerul and stupid backer). excellent question.


me, who knows it could satoshi himself :D.


or you stake a pos coin :) and or just hodl in a paper wallet and let the others take care of the network :).



great insight, thanks for sharing. If they get a country, I hope they will build a yuge army to defend the national mining farms :). Cananda is an excellent choice.


pivx if you are fed up with the mining race (as it's pos and is soon going to release zpiv staking (first worlwide) or monero... do a little research, maybe ETC... who knows.

equihash is asiced, I am ready to bet it...

I agree with this thread especially with
I have completely the same impression when doing business with most of Chinese people. They try to rip you of where they can. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to start any discussion about racism but this is my experience as a purchasing clerk for many years now.

Never buy ASIC! Hardly any company around the world will sell cheap money printing machines.

it's not a problem it's always possible to void their holdings and as long as the us army is stronger than china specially in the mid pacific, the chineses will not be able to do anything about it... they are a paper tigers, otherwise they wouldn't be barking... hehehe.

and worst they use the money then to buy ivory from elephants and rhino, shark fins, turtle flesh and who knows what is trendy to exterminate in the up scale restaurants of shanghai (those hidden to foreign specially) to impress a girl who has 10x as many pretends including the sons of the communist elites (those driving ferraris with 2 girls on boards, specially)....

No Eth development team is to blame they should have forked twice already.

And stated that have have future forks ready to go.

Bitmain is doing good business and eth developers are slow as shit fail at this.

the is true of every gpu coin

Metroid told everyone  in his thread about gpu mining that asics were choking gpus coins and people just laughed at him

including me at first but I am on his side now.

Developers of gpu coins must fork fork fork and fork again or die.

so where is the eth fork already? with notice of more to come
same for equihash  where is the fork ?

I agree with you, but now buterin is splashing in sugar babies pussies and in vakay... what to expect from this worm? lol.

The cost alone makes that a very unlikely case.
Bitmain would have been LOSING money at the $800 level on the thing.



Why would equihash coins fork when there aren't even any legit RUMORS of an ASIC miner for equihash?
Have a fork READY TO GO perhaps, but forking before miner is a waste of time effort and disruption.

The non-ETH coins that use ethash probably SHOULD fork sometime fairly soon if "anti-ASIC" is their view, since they'll be impacted a lot more over time than ETH itself will be - but they're going to get impacted a lot more (as will ALL GPU-mineable coins) when ETH moves to full POS.


I also wish people would stop it with the huge font stuff and QUOTING that huge font stuff.
I've already put 2 people on ignore over that rudeness.

no need to defend buterin, it was failed project proofed to be a failure. IT'S ALREADY MINING !!!!!!!!!!!

and please READ MORE : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3256132.msg34245773#msg34245773

What the heck is that supposed to mean?

Even my Magic 8 ball comes back with "answer hazy, ask again later" about THAT comment.

If you immediatley know the candle light is fire then the meal was cooked along time ago.

Timeframe for ASIC development need to be taken into consideration, then devs need to act according to that and fork the coin.
If wait for confirmation that ASIC for your algo exist then you will always be late.

;D

the way to fight them is by doing what they are doing

its the only way

we are in a process of developing ASIC better then them

our problem is production

if you are interested in being on board PM me

thank you

Fork or goodbye gpu famrs ....
When Bitmain will reach 51% of the network hashrate and will hack ETH, how they did with Bitcoin mining and their Antpool and people will lose their money again then you will say aaaaaaa why we supported bitmain ?

Guys. just relax and have fun! What can we do against a possibilities of bitmain! We need to understand how we can use Bitmain for ourselves profit! And do it!)

Bitmain's miner is not better than VGAs in any way.

Nvidia is already coming out with 1180, E3 will be outdated very soon.

Who cares if they were mining? Its not hidden just because they dont put out a press release about it. They are allowed to mine whatever they want just like anyone else. Its so stupid you guys attribute these nefarious things to them when they are just a company trying to make money, just like everyone else.

Nothing is stopping any of you from developing your own miner and running it without telling anyone or selling it.


P.S. ETH isnt the only coin you can mine with a GPU so its extra silly to complain about it like they are going to take all GPU miners down for mining one of over 1000 GPU minable coins

So lets see....spend tens of millions on developing, producing, and selling a miner...then use it to destroy the network it was built to work on......how does that make any sense at all?

Take your damn tin foil hat off for a moment and apply some logic to your thought process and you will see how stupid you sound.

Also, they never damaged bitcoin in any way, other than mining a few empty blocks. People didnt lose any money because of it. Again you just have no clue what you are talking about.

fanatic26. When the ETH developers asking for investors in order to grow the ETH price they didn't tell them that Bitmain will create huge miners and they will cash out so much money by selling ETH coins that they mined for cheap....... here is the problem !!
'Stealing' money from ETH investors and every ETH coin holder. Did you get it now ?  :-* :-* :-*

There really wasn't a 50% attack because the amount of hash rate on ETH alone is huge.

This is due to the huge memory requirement that ETH requires.

Hence I don't think it's really possible for Bitmain to come even close to 50% hash power.

Sha256 and script was different, they didn't require as much memory.

No because what you are saying doesnt make sense at all. Please show me proof that bitmain is selling discount tokens, because I would love to get in on that.

Just think about it for a second :

Bitmain basically sells money making machines. Why would they sell this machines if it wouldn't be that they believe they will make more money selling them than keeping them and "printing" money themselves?

Also Bitmain, is extremely rich and the play a "mafia" game.

If crypto mining is where the money is, a big guy like Bitmain will always get in the middle and make things their own. Feel privilege you can at least take some crumbs.

It's same as Bitcoin and Banks. Do you think Governments and banks will let this "Decentralization Revolution" Happen without a big nasty fight?

 I hate what they stand for but I doubt there is enough power in the Crypto space to bring them down...

That is true only on eth, bitmain right now can pull a 90 times x rx 580 30 mh/s, 6 eth asic chips x 15x hashrate which equals a whole system with 2700 mh/s and that is what bitmain has been using in their warehouse for sometime. Even though is huge, it is not like xmr which was 375 times x rx 580 700 h/s = 260 kh/s, however and it was not disclosed, bitmain had already a xmr system doing almost 700 times x rx 580 and they have been using them to mine cryptonight clones which were not forked like bytecoin which was recently amazingly pumped by bitmain. Bytecoin team/devs as many other coins were also bribed by bitmain. The way things are, bitmain will own most of cryptocoins. First was bytecoin, i saw that coming and then zec, i also saw that coming. Bitmain is pumping future dead coins cause it wants to protect its investment and bitmain will keep pumping those coins but in the end they will end up dead.

"Based on the above facts, Bytecoin will support ASIC mining, at least until the end of 2018."

https://bytecoin.org/blog/the-asic-statement-clarification-from-the-bytecoin-team

fanatic26 Face the reality ! The proofs and infos in our days are not for free and I am not selling ! But the facts are for free and by using your brain and connecting facts you can obtain gold infos.
Exercise your brain is the key not to ask links and proofs !

I am glad that still exist some people that analyses facts !
You produce cheap the coins, you collect them, then what you need ? to sell them to the highest price possible to make profit and here the pump helps you.

They sell their machines for cheap to us plebs meanwhile they get to use the next generation of chips with much faster MH/s than the ones we get to buy lol. It's like whales eating planktons(us being the plankton)