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Be careful of fake Casascius coins. They really are getting good at it. Its just a matter of time before they will nail it to perfection.

There is one listed on ebay that is a pretty good forgery. Caveat emptor

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2011-Casascius-Physical-Bitcoin-No-Reserve/202279178717?hash=item2f18c751dd:g:y0IAAOSwPoZaw6bd






 
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What left and right? I just see one picture of the front at that auction. Just trying to see what you see.

2011 Cas Coins are not that well minted, which is the biggest spot IMO.  Lines are too thick as well. That’s just two things

Have to rely on you Casascius collectors, the photos in the Encyclopedia are not high resolution. I stay away from eBay never bought a collectible there. @Kialara says he will auction two Ruby Labyrinths on eBay though that should be fun to follow.

minerjones and I discussed if this was a fake or not this morning..... figured it was a fake.  Great thread to keep people informed. 

Wow, that’s scary! I would never have caught that, but now that you mention it, it’s very clear. At least this one doesn’t have a hologram

Updated Photo and placed FAKE and REAL inside pic

You have to give my pic time to load on forum.

Sometimes it loads sometimes it does not, so I also placed a direct link.

Yes loading fine now nice work thanks!

Yes that is who made me aware of it, MJ

I did the comparisons

The photos are a joke for the Cas 2011’s.  That book needs some TLC if they are made again.

Thanks for posting this, krog!

Me

Wow nice spot fellas, it was only a matter of time.  Has anyone contacted the seller?

Yes I did, I asked him where he bought this from. Also told him it was a good forgery of the real one.

He has yet to respond...but then again I sent him the message this morning

I can vouch for this, the pendant technique has improved since then.

I imagine trusted owners of legitimate Casascius coins directly purchased from Mike could be greatly rewarded someday by collectors.

I get what you're saying but this isn't possible for blanks/peeled coins like the one referenced in the OP.

has this happened?

Well unless they get that ANACS guarantee, then you will for sure know they’re real  ;D

I’m sure fake holograms are out there.  I’ve been a bit surprised we haven’t seen fake loaded rounds in circulation yet.  Certainly it is only a matter of time.



 :D

  Considering the price these coins demand, I too am surprised none have been made.

  It will be up to people like us to spot them out and make everyone else aware of it.

  So our coon eyes have to be extra vigilant from now on.

  My question is this. How do we notify people on ebay of fakes?

  Is there a way this can be done?

  The person selling this coin has not responded to my inquiry and this is just the beginning as the auction is still going on and bids are increasing by the day!

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F173229328915

Thoughts here ?

Its the real deal Ty!

Just also noticed this

https://talkimg.com/images/2024/03/01/fxnYJ.png
https://talkimg.com/images/2024/03/01/fxnYJ.png

The last 1 in 2011 in the genuine CAS is THICKER than the fake and also thicker than the first 1.
So in a real cas the 11 are of different thickness and not identical in any way

There's no good way, just have to get it delisted. Instructions for reporting counterfeit items to ebay can be found here: https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/prohibited-restricted-items/fake-items-policy?id=4276, and there's a "Report Item" link on the listing page. The FBI investigates counterfeit goods, so they might be interested. The number to their office in Portland is (503) 224-4181.

Thankyou sir..will follow up with this

The lines don’t fully match uo. Could easily be small minting issue. (Per my prev post). Been playing picture hunt a lot lately aren’t we lol

I reported the auction as fraudulent and sent seller a nasty gram. If it sells..we can contact buyer

Cool and thankyou. You beat me to it!  ;)


Your right there is a missing line, could be a strike error too.

That fat 1 at the end is a dead giveaway its a genuine Cas.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F202279178717

Either seller ended it or eBay did

Good to hear that!

Most likely your reporting did him in. Now we have to stay vigilant for any new fakes popping up, which I am sure they will

It looks that they sodl the same type of coin in the past too...but listed it differently

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2011-Bitcoin-Gold-Plated-Physical-Bitcoin/302622851700?hash=item4675ba4274:g:TeQAAOSwoPpaX8lq

I bought a few silvers there graded which eliminates fakes plus you can get scammed anywhere,  knowing and or seeing your sellers past reputation helps too.  I was wondering when these cas fakes might start showing up, happens in every market. Morgan Dollars and China Kwangtung silver Dragon dollar have been the ones I dealt with mostly as fakes. You get where you can tell a fake in a sec after a while.. just a different look along with less detail. 

keep an eye on this guys followers too

My money says if you sent this fake to ANACS it’d get graded.

LOL you are probably right! Those fools will grade anything as long as they get paid!  :D

lol, that would completely destroy their reputation though. If you can fool a so called expert then your not an expert

I use to keep a 10x to 16x loop with me for years to look a coins just in case.  I would think those graders do the same but I dunno   

That’s exactly why we all hate them. We get how pathetic they are. They graded a fake Sol which is simple to spot.

Edit- not to mention no real coin collectors taken them seriously right now. They are surviving the same way Spirit Airlines are.  No one likes Spirit but they’re still in business

yep wow Im an NGC PCGS buyer most my life...   I thought Spirit was gone lol...  I miss seeing TWA thought they were cool, love the old posters they are very collectible now, the NY poster goes for over $2k now the Orient $500 to $700

and thanks for posting this too Krogothmanhattan    <-----  I miss spelled that about four time lol  OMG make it five

ANACS does not authenticate crypto coins.  They only evaluate the condition and wear.
 
I think if someone was going to try and scam a loaded one, they would be buying up peeled coins and using those.

the similarity is surprising

need to be very careful while buying brass casascius or  any other loaded/high value coin

Though the picture of fake cas is kind of blurry, did you find it somewhere or clicked yourself?

Yes the fake is surprisingly well done.

 Its the photo the used to sell it on Ebay.

 So thats the best pic I have of it Sky

They’ll even do it for a poker chip! How do you grade a clay chip?! My point is more so to prove how little weight they hold in the numismatics world or for their own good name.

China can fake anything and everything for nothing and do it well. Real Cas coins are too expensive spent or not.

They can probably have 1,000 fakes made with holograms cheaper than buying a peeled one.

As a Casascius coin collector, I appreciate that you brought this to the communities attention. Thank you!

It quite clearly is not the same as an original, but a bit of rubbing might sort that out. I've said it before, but it's only a matter of time before the truly indistinguishable fakes arrive. Look at the amount of work that goes into fake Bose headphones for a return of $10-100. Much less effort with one of these could net you $10,000 a time before the market craters completely.

I can well imagine it being borderline impossible to sell any of them in future without some documented history, and even then many won't be inclined to take the chance.

Thank you for posting this. I've added a link to this post on the top of the casascius analyzer.

Good thinking Naypalm! The world needs to know. Let us all stay vigilante on any others!

It might be clear for people like us who have handled Casascius coins and been around them for years...but for the novice newbie and yes some experienced collectors they can be fooled.

   I know for a fact at least one person that bid on it that thought it was genuine because he didnt look hard enough. So yes sometimes the experienced user can make the mistake of thinking it is genuine.
   
    Just because the color is not the same can be blamed on the patina build up thru time too

I've got one that never attempted to pass itself off as a real one. It's pretty similar to that one pictured. In both cases their castings are much more sharply delineated than the real thing.

It's not too huge a leap for a forger to do something to address that and then it's going to be tricky.

Yes its just a matter of time before they nail this. Same goes for loaded cas coins with holo. Provenance and proof is going to be key in the event these things do happen when it will be impossible to distinguish the genuine from the fake coin.

And from Mike Caldwells wordpress info....

 i was sent the following photo of some hologram labels bearing the Casascius name. These labels are counterfeit and unauthorized. They appear to mimic the spelling error from the Series 1 coins. They use a different type face for the main Casascius as well as a slightly different B-logo shape. My series 1 coins also use a dot-matrix-style printing with fixed-width characters, rather than the solid characters in a proportional font that appear in this photo. Please beware!

https://talkimg.com/images/2024/03/01/fxwPl.jpeg


     https://casascius.wordpress.com/2013/12/10/possible-counterfeits-to-be-aware-of/

Couple scrolls down on reddit after searching for Casascius.  Surprised no one had seen this after 4 years.

They're well known but rarely mentioned. That's primarily because they're utterly shit so don't need any consideration in this matter. I wonder whether the makers of those holograms ever looked at a real one.

Completely forgot about these.  In the encyclopedia too.

Is that any type of fake? It's more of a 'tribute' as anyone who's anyone knows there's no such thing as a gold plated one. It is sort of using the 2011 design but it's also listing itself as new and doesn't have Casascius anywhere in the title or description.

There's tons of them for a couple of dollars so I guess this guy is chancing it but you probably wouldn't be able to claim you were conned.

Even though this time he is not saying it is a Casascius 2011 physical coin he is implying it was made in 2011. That in itself is misleading too.

And it is the same seller of the other coin that was a good forgery

Yeah I think even the average bitcoiner can't decide between those fake ones and a real Cas coin. The average Joe who buys stuff on ebay has no chance... >:(
Hope this doesn't hurt the reputation of Cas Coins too much...

First off great job with this thread, it is important to have this information out there and there have been many useful posts and discussion.

Regarding the future, I am not too concerned. My reasons for a lack of concern:

1)  The bulk of my physicals are loaded Casascius Silver Singles.  I believe by the time I am ready to sell them btc will be over 100K USD/BTC.

2)  There are many coins which trade in the major auction houses (Stacks & Heritage) for 100k USD plus every week (have a look).  Pretty much zero fakes ever get thru as the money involved is high enough that experts can make 100's of thousands of dollars per year. For this reason you get very intelligent people dedicating their lives to becoming experts at authenticating very smalll subsets.  We will have experts at this when the coins are worth over 100k.  Fakes will be near impossible, as they are today with high value US coins like the 1794 Dollar.  People successfully fake $500 Morgan Dollars today and sell them on ebay, but no one gets away with faking a coin worth 100k.

In summary, it is very rare a coin worth over 100k USD is successfully counterfeited and sold thru any major auction house and in 5-20 years Casascius 1.0 btc will be worth over 100k USD imo.  The downfall is, the buyer's will pay a 20% premium to the auction houses.

Capital Gains too...don't forget that  ::)

Lez thanks for the compliment.

As we have not yet reached the major auction houses, we are the experts on these coins and thus must remain vigilant to protect ourselves and other people that are coming into this area of collecting.

This thread can be a posting board for any future discoveries which I am sure will arise.

Prior to my introduction into physical crypto collecting, I collected stamps.

Any high end stamps were always sent to an expertization service. An example was the Philatelic foundation.

The expertization  certificate covered the defects, faults and if the stamp is genuine or not.

This is something we lack in our hobby. We need a coin not only to be graded but authenticated as well.

From what I read in previous posts, ANACS graded a SOL NOCTIS that was a China fake.

This from what I understand this can happen with any Physical Bitcoin at a  coin grading service? In other words they will give it a grade on condition but not on authenticity?

I'd never bother with a grader myself, but I would presume their job is purely to cast a judgement on the condition of the lump of metal placed in front of them and no more. They can't be the arbiter of everything as there must be plenty of coins they have no knowledge of.

If something's valuable it's down to the buyer and seller to verify it.

Yes at the moment that is all we have. But that's why we NEED a company to authenticate our coins.

Its not IF it will happen but WHEN.

For anyone following this thread, a new one has been made on

[REFERENCE] BREACHED or SCAM COINMAKERS LIST
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3315347.0

A new one to add to the list (sort of), same seller just gold plated his fake 2011 Casascius coin here- https://www.ebay.com/itm/202291230811?ul_noapp=true
https://i.imgur.com/DKeCKhw.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/5BLlF4R.jpg

Yes Ty..it is the same seller.
 The scammers keep on scamming no matter what.
 As MJ said, he was also asking to make holos with the idea to even make his forgery more realistic.
 We got to keep an eye on this scum.

Just bought two REAL CASASCIUS 2011 coins from this ebay seller sellwynnm

https://m.ebay.com/itm/Original-2011-Casascius-Original-Owner-no-virtual-value-/202287854894

   He posted pics of legit cas coins but then sent me the forgeries. If it was anyone else they would have been fooled! They are that well made. He operates out of Canada.

https://talkimg.com/images/2024/03/01/fl5Oz.jpeg

https://talkimg.com/images/2024/03/01/fl5Oz.jpeg

He will be refunding me my money...but damn how do you post pics of real and send fakes?

Anyway...he refunded my within less than an hour. He claimed he used google pics for posting and not aware what he had were fakes

Holy shitballs, that is scary.  Do you have photos of the fakes?

Holy shitballs, that is scary.  

Edit to add:  I see the coin was peeled, so a bit less scary, but when they successful fake the holo with first bits that check out, oh my....

Les..yes you have to give time for the pic to load..I also added a link

Let me tell you something..for the untrained eye..these look like the real deal.

I had to use a magnifying glass to confirm they were fakes.

The photo flash and zoom help alot too...but for the unwary customer, they will be fooled very easily.

Another fake or forgery popping  up on Ebay..this time its from a new user newbie.

Ebay has been contacted about this and will hopefully shut down the auction.



https://www.ebay.com/itm/Casascius-1-Bitcoin-2011-Bitcoin-Free-Shipping/163019569743?hash=item25f4b93a4f:g:UTcAAOSwWFFa4etE (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Casascius-1-Bitcoin-2011-Bitcoin-Free-Shipping/163019569743?hash=item25f4b93a4f:g:UTcAAOSwWFFa4etE)

At that point just don't buy any coin that you can't trace the origin, even partially.

You mean provenance? That is a good idea but how do you do that with these coins? Especially redeemed ones? I know some people have bought directly from Mike and thus know where the coin came from but otherwise how would that be done? I was fortunate enough to buy a silver gilt 2013 1BTc directly from Mike right before he closed shop in 2013.

I foresaw provenance being a big deal with crypto coins.

1. I have all of the correspondence with any deal I've made on this forum and others.
2. I have most of the envelopes / boxes the coins were shipped to me in.
3. I recorded on the box The Forum member I purchased the coins from, the coins, the serial number of the coins, the amount I paid in Bitcoin and translated into u.s. dollars.
4. And most importantly I left feedback with the reference to the original listing of where I purchased them.

I'm thinking about putting a list of the coins I own on this forum with all the details on the coin such as a description of the coin, funded or unfunded, who I bought the coins from with reference link if applicable, the date purchased, and pictures of the coins and COA's and such. All this to prove provenance and the validity of my collection.

that is a nice idea indeed but you would also be showing your assets which might bring fud and risk to you!
I guess as long you have the details of your purchase, it should be fine when it comes to selling them

I've contemplated that very point that you stated. Also I do not wish to part with any of my coins in the foreseeable future and in posting the list it might entice people to make offers. But I do have a list with people who have made offers on certain coins ;)

Hahah that is true! an open list means invitation to offers and sometimes you get tempted :P

On personal note, would love to see the list to see if we can maybe do some trades that are beneficial for both :)

Don't worry when the time comes for me to get rid of some of my coins you most certainly will be notified. I believe I will post a full list of what I own, once I get all of them graded.

hahah thanks!

and jungle slabs?  :( :( :(

Unfortunately I wish I had done it before they change the color from yellow to Green but I figured it's best to do it now especially with certain coins being faked.

that's the point man!
they don't know how to differentiate in original and fakes. A graded coin not necessarily means it's original. They also have stated that they are not liable of the content of the coin and just the physical condition iirc

True about the green slabs but again I have all the  provenance to backup any coin that I own. Also I have not bought any coins in well over a year, almost 2 years. I know this does not fully make somebody a ease if they decided to buy one of my coins but it certainly helps to show the lineage and time frames of when I purchased the coins.

Sky-Mall is correct about that. ANACS just wants money. They’ll grade anything. Besides these recent Casascius coins, nothing else has been faked even close to as well as those.  All easy spots. Your system is smart however, I try and save everything I can. I wouldn’t post it online though, as I’d be tempted to ask too   :D

ANACS graded a fake Ebay bought Sol Noctis coin as if it was genuine.

These guys and the people who grade out there are not crypto coin experts.

We can do a better job in identifying the real ones from the fakes.

So a graded coin does not mean it is a real coin or that it has not had the holo peeled and then re attached.

I posted a photo of the Sol Noctis coin here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3315347.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3315347.0)

The fact they they slap a sticker on saying authenticated is hilarious!   ::)

they need to hire few of us to do that work :D

Your 100% right on that sky!  We can do a better job than anyone outside the forum for sure!

Perhaps someone will open a service to grade just for us forum members...a forum member with high trust and years of trading cryptocoins..I can think of a few good people in here  ;) that can start something really good for the collecting community

yup!

so many trusted guys in here with such experience.
would be fun to have a inhouse grading system but would be too costly to setup just for the physical crypto and this community is not as big for the industry yet.

I'll volunteer to authenticate coins. Genuines will be etched "FOOL" to clearly show dazedfool-verified legitimacy. Fake coins will be removed from circulation at no charge.  ;D

Very reasonable 1XMR processing fee per coin. Shipping at cost, both ways.

hahahah i like the idea of removing the fakes!

ANACS have to be 'FOOL' to not take your help with xmr ones :D

Now thats an idea....the fools shipping coins to a dazed fool to be fooled  ;D

A fake Casascius going thru ICG ..courtesy of MinerJones

https://talkimg.com/images/2024/03/01/f8q95.png

https://talkimg.com/images/2024/03/01/f8lXz.png

Presumably he told that it was fake rather than them deciding? I doubt they know their arse from their elbow.

It still looks too blocky and shiny to be a convincing clone.

WTB one of these lemons, if available.  :P (Just for personal collection)

Thanks for posting this Krogo!!

In numismatics, people actually collect forgeries... there are folks who have fake morgan dollar collections, graded by pcgs as fakes... i’ve seen one of these sets at a coin conference and the price tag was insane...

I suspect, people will want to collect crypto fakes, but it would be a tiny number of collectors interested in them

  It also applies in philately....forgeries...fakes and counterfeits are also collectables. Especially items that fooled the postal system in thinking they were genuine in other words postally used fakes. Sperati was the most famous and incredibly good at making realistic fakes.

Same in ancient coins. They are called barbarian silver.  I had a counterfeit/barbarian Celtic version of a Roman coin. The counterfeit was produced around 140 BC and when I sold it was worth over 1000 usd. 

Courtesy of ChiBCTy

oh wow this is nuts, thanks for the heads up, I wanted to buy some soon didn't know they sold fake ones.

It was clear that better fakes will show up. The pics I have seen in this thread don't scare me (yet). As long as the coins can be relatively easy distinguished from real ones by eye all is good. A more difficult thing to fake would be the hologram anyway.
Any fake holograms spotted in the wild yet?

These holograms were made years ago...
https://casascius.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/counterfeit.jpg


If the toning color of the faked casascius is made closer to the real one it will fool most people who are not into the daily dealing of our crypto passion.

So yes...most seasoned collectors in here will be able to distinguish between the two but newbies entering the market can easily be fooled.

One experience I had first hand is an ebay member posting the REAL redeemed Casascius 2011 coins on ebay and then he sent me the fake ones! Classic bait and switch!

Of course I got my money back once I called him out. But how many people did this unscrupulous seller dupe? Probably alot.

So if anyone has anything that is newly faked or forged it is imperative to post here or in my other thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3315347.0 for everyone to see in this forum and also for people outside of here to find when doing a google search.

The existing ones seem to largely be cheerful ripoffs, not dedicated fakes. I'm sure if someone put their mind to it we'd wind up with something truly convincing.

Mike Caldwell started off selling car wash tokens with stickers on them, albeit fancy ish stickers. He couldn't have known what was to come. I wonder what he would've done differently if he did.

one quick question having a coin graded prevent 100% of fake right?

I've only one coin non graded and I'm a bit suspicious It can be a fake, because it's not and it's in relatively bad shape  ;D

I would've thought their job is solely to put a wee score on the lump of metal placed in front of them. I presume grading and authentication are totally different areas and not a problem the average grader is looking to take on. Could be massively wrong though.

Can you please post a good photo of the coin in question? Front and back and blank out the first bits.

  I think you are right I do not think they authenticate if the coin or token is genuine or not.

  When MJ submitted his he told them it was a fake IIRC.

  There are people in this forum who can do a better job at authenticating coins in our hobby than them for sure.

Edit>>>  They graded a FAKE Sol Noctis here as genuine https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3315347.0;all

You need to have a legitimate coin to compare with. Grading prevents nothing, and a bad actor may even have graded fakes to make it less suspicious. Obvious fakes can be spotted by the community (if you present some pics), though.


Correct for both. I think some people in these forums could do better job at grading too, as sometimes at least ANACS places some very incoherent or even totally off grades on crypto collectibles.

so I guess I'm fine I've forgot that MJ was the escrow. I guess he would be able to see a fake it was this auction:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1933101.0

(yes I've lose my oldest account :()

2012 Casascius?  It looks genuine to me mate..cheers  :D


https://talkimg.com/images/2024/03/01/fiswm.jpeg

good to hear. Cheers, it's sad that fake coin exist, but I'm scared about this problem becoming really huge for casascius, I hope the community can find a decent solution, maybe a blockchain based one. Why not grade them all, and put an "unique" chip on the graded plastic, with anchored proof of authencity on the bitcoin blockchain? Chip could own the PK that made the anchor or something like that

Obviously its not easy tech, but there is not so many coin especially very valuable ones

one other tech that scammers could use (I hope I'm not giving them bad idea) is to provide pic of a legit coin, and send the fake coin :/ Noob like me would rely on online certification, but definitely not enough  :)
Unfortunately the coin is not close to me, but when i got it back I will provide some of my own pics :D

Anyway this community is strong enough I believe that as long u make a trade here, you are fine.

  Never say never...and read further up as the bait and switch happened to me on ebay  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3257048.msg49060240#msg49060240

I don't really trust their ratings either...not since they graded Satori chips! I look at the coin and determine its quality..not some stamp from Anacs.

They also graded this FAKE SOL NOCTIS without indicating its a fake! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3315347.0;all

Thanks for posting those, I hadn't seen them. They are of similar quality than the other fakes. Of course newbies can easily be fooled, this is the case for any collectibles....
The trouble starts when experienced users or experts have difficulty to call out fakes. The problem won't get smaller or go away in the future, that's for sure...

A couple new Casascius fakes to be aware of...

https://i.imgur.com/z7b6pw9.png
https://i.imgur.com/MUa0lJ6.png
Found here- https://bitcointaiwan.weebly.com/

https://i.imgur.com/Rn4ICyT.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/UNT83yf.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/wxxunGg.jpg
Found here- http://blog.sina.cn/dpool/blog/s/blog_6f1216f90101qj3e.html

Wanted to post these here as well. Krogo was kind enough to post these in the "Breached and Scam Coin maker list" a few months back.
https://i.imgur.com/ipGSCWe.jpg
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/custom-design-bitcoin-coin_60091026935.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.100.2a6b1f1ettAfJq
https://i.imgur.com/O5aHAGc.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/XxU9ut6.jpg
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/fashion-European-custom-bit-coin-promotional_60538793997.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.97.2e4a1f1ebW6udS
https://i.imgur.com/kApdeny.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/yCEEcHA.jpg
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/hot-sale-custom-made-metal-bitcoin_60496117956.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.315.18d41f1ec8e6Xy

I would call all of them tributes or ripoffs, not forgeries or fakes. There's no concerted attempt to be indistinguishable from an original. They're all clearly nothing like the real deal.

Sure maybe to the trained eye, but this sector of coin collecting is not well known by the general public, and that's what this thread is mainly for (this thread is also pasted on Uberbills where many non-experts visit).  I also disagree that none of them are meant as an attempt to fool a buyer.  Let's say for the sake of argument none of them were meant to be fakes to fool their customers, but the customers that do buy them might try and attempt to sell them as real Casascius coins to an unsuspecting third party. IMHO I'd argue there's less than 100-150 people on this planet who can identify a Casascius "tribute" from the real deal with ease.

The one with the hologram has a hologram that in no way resembles a real one. The others have engraving on the back instead of a hologram. That's two seconds of googling. I've never seen one of these attempting to pass itself off as a real one. They quite often have Casascius in the ad titles, but they also have 'souvenir' or 'commemorative' and they never cost more than $5-10.

One day one of them will. Not yet.

I have seen multiple fakes sold, and for much more than $5-10.  So have other experts here.  Mike Caldwell didn't make every coin the same, nor did he do so with his holograms (also that hologram absolutely resembles a Casascius).  Casascius.com is not a good resource for this info, nor is it a simple task for newbies to figure out everything Mike made over the years in a few seconds.  Mike also didn't load all of his coins.  He released a good amount of DIY coins, and not just the cheap aluminum ones, that didn't come with holograms.  These coins sell for good money even without being loaded/having a hologram. You seem to be missing that point.  Again, this is in large part for the newbies.

  I have seen ebay sellers place a photo of a real Casascius coin and when they ship they send a fake Casascius. It happened to me last year. If not for the trained eye, newbies can easily get fooled.
 
  What is posted on this thread is to help any collector of what is out there. Be they good forgeries or bad, the more we post on what is out there, the stronger we are in educating everyone who visits this thread.

  I thankyou both for your inputs, it helps seeing it from both sides of the fence so top speak.

Well said Krogo
Here’s an  example of a btalk forum member being fooled back in 2014 -
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=465242.0

Dam that's a sheisty move.  I am going to assume ebay gave you your money back?  Bait and switch  :-\

  I messaged the guy and basically told him he pulled a bait and switch. Once he gave me my money plus shipping expenses i sent item to him in canada..i reported him to ebay. I was told he was a member on this forum too. Scum

Who is it?  Have they been properly negged?  Last thing we need is fakes in the wild. 

Aye...i am sure i did..gotta find the name again.

That background pattern is difficult for them currently I've always looked for that first.  Scammers into everything now days

As the amount of value increases so does the amount of people out there looking to rip these off.  Always need to stay vigilant regardless  as with any collectable

Hey guys, been in the crypto scene since 2013, but I am a first time prospective Casascius owner. Looking to get my first error coin: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5127692.0

It SEEMS legit, but I had some concerns about the textured background and the N in Vires In Numeris (I can't really tell from the pictures).

The seller is a newbie too. Any (other) red flags?

Just use escrow.

edit:  and verify.  ;)

It would be nice to have an angled shot of the front as usually the text on the knock offs sticks out a lot more. The N and the U look a bit melded and the texture is not quite right either but it looks like a seriously worn out coin which might account for that.

You should ask for photos with better light and from other angles.

minerjones has verified that it looks legit. I will see if I can get some higher definition images though first.

For what it's worth it looks real to me but has some wear/circulation damage.  I agree with gentelmand some angled photos of the obverse would be helpful.

So 20 bucks worth of silver and no actual photos. That's a deal right there.

I still don't class this as a fake myself. It's a replica/rip off. It's not attempting to be a full on counterfeit/deception.

It's a con. It's not a dedicated counterfeit which is what people should be most vigilant about. As soon as one of those pops up and it's good enough that's going to have a major effect on the viability of real ones.

Stuff like this is sad and annoying but it can be shrugged off.

Another

https://i.imgur.com/nQiMPnN.jpg?1

Was on the fence with this one, but MinerJones suggested I place it here..

https://i.imgur.com/82NH5J0.jpg?1

Not great "fakes" but still noteworthy

https://i.imgur.com/7qkgT9O.jpg?2

https://i.imgur.com/Dyck2Az.jpg?2

https://i.imgur.com/HYxNAE6.jpg?2

Incorrectly stated here by the self proclaimed physical bitcoin experts.

https://coinfirm.org/product/s2-1-btc-2013

https://i.imgur.com/1faGHiI.jpg?2

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=465242.0

https://i.imgur.com/PxlyidQ.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/Df2RL1b.jpg?1

Casascius Coin Sales -Website Scam

Obviously these prices don't even come close to recovering alt redemption's.

https://www.goldxcash.net/buycasasciusbitcoins.htm


Bitcointalk Marketing thread, locked w/out any replies https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5227734.0

Scam accusation threads (many more can be found on google)
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1199197.0
- https://forum.bitcoin.com/services/goldxcash-net-sell-buy-exchange-bitcoin-to-paypal-skrill-neteller-etc-t87926.html
- https://cryptoscamalert.com/report/47-
- https://reportscam.com/goldxcashnet


https://i.imgur.com/mlNHCtl.jpg?2

https://i.imgur.com/dWo1AB9.jpg?2

https://i.imgur.com/YgIknUf.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/hpAXXkV.jpg?1

Article mentioning this thread.

https://www.altcoinbuzz.io/bitcoin-and-crypto-guide/what-is-the-casascius-physical-bitcoin-exploring-an-important-part-of-bitcoins-history/


Thanks ChibitCty for making me aware of it.

NP!


Sidenote-

Since Uberbills took down the link to this page on their site, I emailed Mike suggesting putting this thread on Casascius.com. Even if Uberbills puts it back up, I hope that Mike still places it on his page.  With roughly 300 million dollars worth of bitcoin left on Casascius coins atm..doing so could really save some people from some serious financial losses.  We've got two types of fake holograms and plenty of decent fakes listed here alone..and there's plenty more out there we haven't found..like the well made 25BTC Coin Mike found on ebay ( https://casascius.wordpress.com/2014/02/05/beware-of-fakes-on-ebay/ ).

If anyone reading this knows Mike ( assuming he doesn't see it first ) if you wouldn't mind sending this suggestion his way it'd be appreciated.

Great thread, thanks for compiling this info. Will be following

Are you showing that they have been removed or are you just saying in case they are one day taken down, kind of like how some images have been doing so lately?  I have many saved, and will keep them stored away.

Hi guys! thanks for the thread!
I want to know if you can help me to verify if those coins (Imgur album (https://imgur.com/a/t589NdX)) are fake or real? It would help me a lot not to make a bad decision.

The pictures are not great and I'd ask for better ones (use a white piece of paper not a hand as the background).

You can use this tool to verify they are funded by typing in the first bits here:  https://www.smartbit.com.au/

When buying use a trusted escrow.  Good luck.

All of them were funded as part of the same batch, probably out of the same roll.  That is another positive sign.

Nice eye on the blue tape.

OP, tell the seller to stop touching them with their oily filthy bare hands unless they only touch the rim.  If they are going to be sloppy about their handling they need to wear gloves.

Hey, thank you all for your responses! I will show some photos again if I found more casascius.

Thanks for this thread, it's been really helpful. Apologies for the bump, but I figure the information is still as valid as ever -- if not even more so given the recent crypto boom.

Are there any other guides out there or things to watch out for when buying/selling physical (loaded) coins? Given the all-time highs, I'm terrified trying to buy in the current market since any kind of scam would be extremely lucrative.

This thread is obviously great for Casascius coins but for other coin issues/scams etc you’d want to refer to this pinned topic - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3315347.0

Time for a bump. ;)

I wouldnt buy any peeled coin without the hologram still attached

Fake Casascius holograms being offered/sold..

https://i.ibb.co/whb57gn/27-BF476-B-5-FB9-430-B-8525-A9-BEC3-D6817-C.jpg (https://ibb.co/MkjFfSz)

https://i.ibb.co/n09HNnY/FD15-E33-E-D6-F8-4119-B5-EF-7-B30-DF59-D254.jpg (https://ibb.co/DbhxH8v)

https://i.ibb.co/31s95p7/D958-B15-B-D5-C3-48-F8-A0-A8-A796-C4-DAC7-EA.jpg (https://ibb.co/kKysV4x)

https://m.alibaba.com/product/1600052674615/Custom-Print-Lasering-Holographic-Void-Sticker.html

https://i.ibb.co/6DX3sMZ/D4-F5-F865-6952-4-F52-95-C5-597-E20-A8632-B.jpg (https://ibb.co/4416Nqf)

Damn! That is scary indeed! Thanks for sharing this...Ty

Super cheap also...  Definitely cause for concern for folks buying these coins.  Granted, it looks as though these would be easily spotted as being fake by someone who is familiar with them, I'm sure there are going to be people who lose a lot of money as a result of their existence.  Sad.  This is also the reason why I charge such a high premium for mine that I sell.  At least the buyer can know they're legitimate and have been held in a collection for close to a decade.  Be careful out there.  In this field there are more people trying to steal from you than there are people looking out for you.

Wouldn't the first bits give it away. If it wasnt funded in 2012 dont do it.

For experts these aren’t going to work. Non-experts, you could just copy first bits of active coins.

Happy to authenticate any Casascius coins/bars at no cost. :D

The problem lies when these are sold outside of bitcointalk. I’ve seen countless marketplace websites across the world where these types of coins are sold. Many which most browsers will never pick up, not to mention the ones I’ve never seen or ever will and I do a lot of looking around. This hobby continues to face a lot of head winds. I almost hesitate to post/say any of this as to not give people ideas (I’m talking to you scumbag scammers reading this as I know many of you are) but it needs to be known plus this page has been shared a good bit online and places like https://casascius.uberbills.com/?page=tools . Also hopefully people will do research and potentialy come across this thread and prevent potential losses. (This is a reply to everyone, I know you know all this MJ lol)

I’m betting that grading services would even be willing to grade them without a care in the world if the hologram is authentic or not. Someone should try and see what happens. Again, I think most people would be able to tell if it is real after doing some comparisons, but casuals at Bitcoin events with too much money could be easily fooled. If anyone comes across these in real life, make sure to share pics with the rest of us.

The Longding Co. sucks, in my opinion.

Also, I think this Ebay sale, while not technically a counterfeit, lives in the same category of ripping people off and hurting the hobby for collectors.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/185406688766?hash=item2b2b198dfe:g:D0MAAOSwnftiLCnF (https://www.ebay.com/itm/185406688766?hash=item2b2b198dfe:g:D0MAAOSwnftiLCnF)

Steeley

  I talked to this guy. Told him it was a bad idea. He said he wasnt trying to pass anything off as original. However, the price at which hes asking may lead people to believe its real.

Tell him that for a $10,500 "rebuilt" Casascius coin, (that is worth $300-500) he should at least offer free shipping to the poor soul that buys it.  ;D

As an unintended consequence, I believe the ANACS yellow slab (the one right before the jungle green ones) will eventually command a higher premium- not because they are the best or worst but rather because their slab colors correspond with and represent a timeframe.  And the yellow slab timeframe represents an earlier time, which IMHO would lead to a greater buyer confidence of not being a fake vs being slabbed nowadays or later due to the amount horseshit out there now and continuing.  ICG might have some potential in this regard as no Cas background vs Cas background on the blue header, which would also correspond with and represent a timeframe.  Not saying this guarantees past ones can't be fakes or things slabbed nowadays are all fakes, but folks like odds and probabilities that lean more toward not being fakes and will pay at least a slightly higher premium. Don't get me wrong, I am typically in favor of slabbing due to the protection and preservation offered.

I'll buy all of your silver casascius for $300 ;)

Oh yeah, It didn't register with me that this is a silver. I was looking at it too quickly. So, agreed, worth more than $300.

I agree. Having an effective bounded timestamp for provenance is valuable. Also it was reflective of a world where you were mailing hundreds to thousands of dollars of coin to get graded, not tens of thousands or more. Much higher risk / lower chance that would happen today. I don't believe ANACS ever offered walk-in grading. Seems like ICG/PCGS do case-by-case.

You could call ahead to ANACS to have walk-in/in person grading done.
Made the mistake of doing that in January one time....  so much snow in Colorado!!!

ICG does also offer walk in service if you notify them before you come in.

this one on ebay looks fake to me, but it could be the angle or lighting
https://www.ebay.com/itm/334463996314?hash=item4ddf9b919a:g:7csAAOSw3f5im7sJ

It was probably cleaned with vinegar or something similar to take off the surface grime.
Have seen a few like that over the years... not fakes, but def should never do that to a coin.

Edit: the few fakes that I have seen in person are usually "over-plated" and/or super-smooth. Making both a dead giveaway for being non-genuine.
The 2nd picture in the OP of the 2 coins is a good example

Good info to know thanks for your input sir

 Time for a bump.

Unfortunately more news to come soon..

That sounds a bit ominous.  We'll all have to wait and see what this news is.  I'm guessing someone purchased a fake or there's a new set of fakes in town that are a bit hard to distinguish from the real ones?  I'll admit I'm curious.  I'd hate to think that all Casascius holders will have to peel their coins if in the future it is too much of a risk to purchase one.  Maybe that will make my old collection a little more coveted.  :)  Wishful thinking on my part. 

Waiting and watching...

Provenance will play a big part moving forward for sure.

  Indeed it will be. The only cas I got directly from Mike was a silver gilt...which will NEVER leave my dungeon  ;)

REPOST

How much longer do we have to wait to hear about this new Casascius threat? There are still people selling them here so a delay could end up costing members of the community greatly. I’d hate for more people to get ripped off as a result of a delay is propagating information. So share the information and we can all be on alert for great deals that may not be so great in reality.

I will check in to this.


@Mike Caldwell, man, please post this on your website. I know you’ve probably got your reasons for not doing so, but the truth is you’re literally going to end up costing people countless dollars by not doing so.

Please be mindful that people still use your website all the time. You left your sales live for the aluminum coins for I believe at least a couple years. I sent you a payment for a bag. I knew you had shut down, but figured maybe you were still selling those. I remember thinking “I’ll buy a bag, and if I don’t get one it’s whatever it’s only $60 (rough estimate of .39BTC at the time. That was now a $7,500 mistake. It’s completely my fault and should have reach out to you before and after, but I was dumb and lazy at the time. I have to imagine you got notified when sales were made. Your address generator, payment submission etc was still fully operational at the time.  

My point here is please be more mindful of other people. I know you’re wealthy beyond your wildest dreams and are sick of this hobby etc, but that shouldn’t mean you can’t help out a little.

Turns out nubbins was right. Also, anything graded is technically null of any provenance yes?

https://i.imgur.com/l4IkEGo.jpg?1 (https://i.imgur.com/l4IkEGo.jpg?1)

Edit to add:  Yes, grading would break the chain imo.  nubbins would agree.

Aww hell, I thought you guys were gonna bring up the fake casascius holos that people are rebuilding coins with....

Just search alibaba hard enough... I think (?) ..   ::)

it will be posted soon. believe some of the details are being put together.

I don’t think Mike owes anybody anything. They were cheaply made coins in the beginning which are now worth a great deal so common sense should point towards fakes being available at some point. What concerns me now is that apparently people are aware of fakes being made widely available but are sitting on the “details” for weeks. I’d be very careful of buying Casascius coins at the moment, especially from alt accounts of the effected users…

I still haven’t seen any real info about this recent threat, so what should Mike even post?  As far as I’m aware the alibaba fakes are distinguishable from the originals. Has this changed? Why delay on providing info? Something smells fishy to me.

No one is sitting on the details for weeks - they are being compared to actual coins, details being written up, shared with grading houses, samples being slabbed in order to be shared.

It is all being brought together to be properly presented.

As I’ve been saying for years now, grading services aren’t authentication services and the people working at these companies are nowhere near informed enough to be close to as good at spotting a fake as most of the community members here. It was always a false sense of security. As the community now seems to be realizing, grading can even be bad for the coins for many reasons… I look forward to seeing the results of this long write up of the newly discovered Casascius concerns.

True. But they still need to be made aware and to be informed. As you stated they are often not knowledgable enough - they really should hire authenticators who have the knowledge - either way there are multiple moving parts and it hasn’t been weeks since they came in hand. It was weeks ago when they were seen but were never sent to us until very recently.

I buy a lot of Casascius items for clients and felt the need to do a deeper dive. I found that if you don't have a good loop with you it's hard to see the micro engraving 'casascius", but its very easy to see the text differences on each hologram.

Notice the fake hologram is more golden and my eye is always drawn the the "B". The replica has different size openings in the "B" the bottom one is smaller. Its easy to see even if your eyes aren't that good. The "N" has more of a webbing between the lines on the replica compared to the original.

Also when its peeled it creates the honeycomb shapes.

https://i.imgur.com/yADvDl7.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/49OY8JL.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/IMYQnRj.jpg

Wow that stabbed ICG piece is a great example to have. Do you know anyone who has an examples for sale thats slabbed?

The CryptoBugs and Caribbean Treasures holograms are obviously different and are not fake or replicas. The artwork is inspired by Casascius for sure. As all physical crypto pieces are. 😄 If you'd like better photos just ask.

The CryptoBugs pieces is 23mm and was made to teach other "Crypto Bugs" how to build their own physical crypto coins. It is generic so any crypto wallet builder can use it to fund the DIY Mary Ola silver wallets. You can build Btc, eth, Ltc, xmr, xrp, DASH, Doge....ect. up to 11 different varieties. They are all listed on the backside of the silver round.  Very rare pieces. Some of the alts are only funded once or twice. You can tell which ones have been built by manufacturer by matching serial number on hologram with "CT" hand stamp. All others. Are DIY built.

The Caribbean Treasures holograms are 26mm and will be used for rebuilds. The public key will be easily seen in the transparent window as a qr code. These aren't sold to the public.

I didn’t say he does. But would it kill him to spend 5 seconds adding a link to this page to his website? There’s a lot of people who aren’t knowledgeable about these coins who could easily be fooled (have been fooled and will continue to be fooled) and this page could very much be of help.  Simple as that.

As for owing people something, have to wonder how much bitcoin he collected from leaving his aluminum coins for sale for several years after shutting down his shop.  I know I lost .39btc that way. I’m not looking for anything, just making a point.

It would simply be the moral thing to do by adding this thread to his page imo.

I would not call them generic in any means in that they are specifically modeled after the cas holo - the sizes and the wording may be different but it is neither generic or original.

As you have made several that copy the cas holo - are you the one responsible for the fake cas holos or do you know who is?

I know you have a tendency to use other coinmaker's holograms on coins and then selling the coins with huge premiums. Not sure if the makers of the coins would appreciate their holograms, designed for their coins and with their names on them are being used to sell knock offs - sorry "rebuilds".  Have you ever thought to make your own original hologram vs copying/using others?

Having been the head of your local numismatic group, I am amazed that you would not find this to actually be detrimental to the numismatic value of the coins.

Perhaps the chance of high profits selling to people who have no clue that they are being ripped off is too great.

oh the joy of communicating with Mopar  ;D

They're indeed generic because I made them to be. They're designed to be used with the Mary Ola / Puerto Rico ½ oz silver rounds and you turn the hologram so, whatever crypto you build the keys for, is located at 12oclock of the hologram. They were specifically made for the Cryptobugs group for educational building physical wallets, because I realized no one knew how to do it. The Mary Ola is supposed to be redeemed and rebuilt over and over again. You know the whole point of using peer to peer transactions. The more people that learn and know how to build, verify, and redeem the better. Especially in a time of government surveillance and control.

I like the Casascius hologram design and so do a lot of other people. There is nothing wrong with the CryptoBug or Caribbean Treasures Holograms.  They were designed to show QR codes and not first digits. They can't be confused for a Casascius hologram, because they say something completely different. Using a QR code makes it very easy to verify, on the spot, if the public address is funded or not. No 3rd party needed or website like the Casascius pieces. I like to just go straight to the blockchain and verify.  
Think about it though. Mike wanted us to build and rebuild his pieces. Why do you think he made the Aluminum blanks and the 5 bitnickels? To sit in our safes? No. to build, trade and buy with these as intended. It is similar to the Crypto Freeze pieces that were built, but they won’t be as desirable as a aluminum casascius round with an almost perfect “Fake” hologram. (just saying).

Now it would be wrong if someone tried to take one of these Chinese hologram fakes and tried to pass it off as real.  I guarantee fakes are coming to the market 10x more in volume than the real Casascius pieces. Just like Mickey Mantle rookie replicas. Not everyone will be able to own one. So, the market will provide Casascius replicas, but everyone should be able to get a replica if they’d like. These coins will still be highly collectable when we are dead and gone. Just like I enjoy stacking $3 Gold pieces from the 1800’s. I also know $3 fakes coins exist, but I educate myself on items I intend to buy or have a buddy who is.  I guarantee the supply of fakes will meet the demand in the future. All we can do to protect others is to educate and provide material to show how to tell the difference. Part of that is building and redeeming often. Not just creating collectables to hide away from 99% of the population. At the end of the day though, or in 100 years, people will want something as close to the original as possible, because they won’t be able to afford 1.2 million for a real one. The won’t even be able to afford a redeemed blank because they will most likely be 6 digits. They are going to get replica rounds with replica holograms and love it.

I believe I found out about the replica/fake Casascius ones through BT. They're coming out of China. I'm sure there are probably more makers out there. When I find out about them, I will buy them so I'm always ahead of the curve and know what to look for. It’s those kinds of people that can write the book and the experts use to guide them.

When I get DIY holograms, I use them. That’s what you do with DIY holograms. I don’t know what huge profits you speak of, because I haven’t ever sold one made by someone else.  I do however price my items very high online, not because I want that amount, but because I don't want them to sell. It’s an easy way to see the current market price because people send you offers. It allows me to stay updated on current prices by collecting offers people are willing to spend. I have a lot of people ask me current prices because this is an easy method that works. After 20 people offer, I have a nice idea of what items will sell for. If a deal is good or bad. If the risk is worth it. Prices on BT isn’t the price in other markets.

I don’t know why everyone wants to retire casascius rounds after they have been peeled and redeemed? Most the redeemed ones I have were purchased from people that didn’t see the value in the numismatics. Sometimes its not about the money, its about an idea that can’t be stopped. I hope Casascius rounds are still being used after a 1000 years. LFG!!!!

Why can’t we build a physical bitcoin that circulates in our community for goods and services? That actually moves between hands. Stay tuned for the next Caribbean Treasures territory pieces 😉 And they will probably have a hologram inspired by Casascius because I love them. 😉 I’ll drink your tears for breakfast Mopar!  :D

This is only the second time we have ever had any discussion and the first time on the forums outside of me asking about the coins you sold a while back. So not sure where your “joy” comes from.

They are not generic - size and window aside, they are copies of cas holograms. Most likely made by the same vendor selling the cas fakes.

You specifically told me that you get paid far over the coins regular value (I am taking about market value not some bargain value) to make rebuilt coins - even boasting 


Stating you bring “pieces back to life for thousands of people” and that you educate them how to protect themselves.  If they want to use a cas or lealana and understand the significance of those pieces and still want to use them, you should educate them on how to generate their own keys so they could save thousands vs overpaying you for a coin you didn't make using a copied hologram or plain simple using someone else's hologram - essentially a coin you put zero to little effort in doing.

In all seriousness, I hope you put more effort into your key generation - and that you didn’t cut corners there like you did with the holos.

I’ll stop here but if anyone asks about your coins, I am going to be clear they should steer far far away from them. For their wallets - fiat and Bitcoin - sake.

I was joking around with you.
You can apply the CryptoBug Hologram with any crypto keys and it will still work. It's generic for flexability. It has no specific crypto amont on it...generic. See photo below for different cryptos it was funded with.

https://i.imgur.com/57IwBXw.jpg?1

Those are my holograms. Not someone elses. Yes, There is a market for people that want keys built for them. They will pay for you to rebuild their wallet for them. For example somone would pay $100 for a redeemed piece, but if you rebuild it they will pay 3x. They would rather pay 3x than buy a piece for $100 that they can't do anything with. Thats what I was telling you. They dont care what hologram you use or coin as long as it works. okay maybe they will for 3x, but you get the point. They will pay more for a working wallet.

Well if you teach 100 people how to rebuild they only have to rebuild 10 times to reach large numbers. ;) It doesn't take long for the numbers to grow. I use to do little siminars on physical cryptos. There is a large population that doesn't want to learn ive noticed, but they will pay for you to custom make it for them.

I will take your advice and make more Caribbean related holograms in the future. ;) that will be exciting.

We can always improve something.

Thanks for the encouragement  ;D

  I have not bumped this in quite awhile. I think its important  as a reminder to people that have been around awhile as well
as to people who are new in this hobby/space.

Some people use to throw their holograms away after they redeemed them. I've always collected them and have drawers of redeemed keys with holograms, just so everyone is clear from the "Quote" above. :) if you'd like a redeemed piece rebuilt, just ask. Its going to be more common the further we get. People wont be able to afford a 100k Casascius, but they can afford to buy a $500 redeemed one and have it rebuilt so they can use it :) I'm at your service. If they can't tell the difference between a CT or Cryptobugs hologram compared to a Casascius hologram, they should go wear a helmet.

https://i.imgur.com/cmpcDq7.jpg

there are not talking about people not being able to identify your copycat cas holos as those have your text - they are talking about the fully fake cas holos - I am curious what maker was willing to make copies like that - and who had the balls to do it. I was shown it by quite a few people here and was also told no coins would be built with them - then next you know, the fake coins are on facebook being sold. fakes/copies are a disgrace and a insult to the collectibles

I totally don't understand why anyone would want a rebuilt coin. The value in these coins is created by being original. By putting another hologram on it diminishes the value. Its like putting a Honda engine in a Corvette.  if you modify any collectable it completely loses it value.

what I dont get about the rebuilt is the huge marke up 3 to 4 times what a peeled one cost when in reality a rebuilt is worth less than a peeled - numismatically speaking - apparently he has a ton of customers so meh - not anyone from here I bet.'

let me clarify - anyone can build/do what they wish and charge what they want - people speak with their wallets - simply saying I dont understand it.

when you see base metal coins for 200 ea and 1 oz silvers for 200 or 5oz silvers for 600 to 800 - I just dont get it, personally.

I'd call them Casascius inspired. :) just like 20 other brand/designs out there if you want me to name them off.
The holograms came out of China, but they aren't that good of fakes. When you study them almost everything is off.

 The fear is they are confused or new and think they are getting an original. Then they think they are being defrauded, and opening yourself up to a lawsuit or criminal investigation. I say just leave the coins original. Anyone who wants to learn how to do this probably has ill intent and wants to create fake original coins for re-sale.

I don't know if anyone wants or would prefer a rebuild over a intact Casascius, but sometimes its all you can afford when the alternative is 30k 50k 100k. All you'd have to do to make it original is redeem it and remove the hologram. You are back to square one. a redeemed Casascius. Its just a preference. It isn't a big thing, I'm just saying it exist and some people want it.

exactly - I wonder how many believe they are buying a real one vs a rebuilt - simply because they dont understand the value - especially since there are builders out there using fake holos

From my experience 95% are request and probably only 0.5% total. I do see it increasing in frequency as prices increase though. The point of the thread is to identify fakes and to help others from being tricked into buying a faked Casascius. Yes, that is a huge problem and I think everyone can get behind that. :) If I find a fake I'll post it here.

How easy are these fakes to actually find if you want them?  I was thinking that I never get to see my Casascius collection.  It's basically like I don't own them.  It would be great to have a Casascius coin to display in a frame or something like that in my house where I could actually see it and be happy but obviously I'm not going to hang something extremely valuable.  Maybe artworks with Casascius fakes in them could be a nice thing to have and not have to worry about displaying because they aren't really worth anything.  Good idea or promoting forgeries?  You be the judge.  Still, I think it would be cool as long as the fakes were at least indistinguishable to a casual.

  I hear you....whats the point when you cannot display and enjoy them? They are also great conversation pieces for anyone visiting your den as well.

   Thats why I made color photocopies of all my Bitbills and placed them in a  frame (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3334918.msg43852076#msg43852076)

   Someday I will have it professionally made and mounted in a nicer frame, but until then I enjoy them everyday. While the real ones are safe in a hole underground  ;)

   DOnt know if you wanna do the same with cas coins, but I am sure you can figure out a way to take nice pics and place them in a frame as well.

Wow, I mean this is really a pretty good fake, but its incredible the lengths that Casascius went to make these as fool proof as ever. These little 'security lines' in there are surely hard to exact, down to the little finest details.

     I don't think these were made on purpose as a security proof by Casascius....he made these coins and I quote

        "" so the first Casascius coins were customized brass coins ordered from a mint that makes car wash tokens"
                 https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Casascius_physical_bitcoins

        I think they just used those lines to create a pattern in the design.  But then again I could be wrong.

       

  Its time I brought this up to the surface for people to reread or for newbies to be aware of.

If anyone has one of the fakes, I'm looking for some of the brass examples.

I do.. I own the one in the first post, but cannot find it at the moment.
If I do find it, can take some better pictures of it.

Also, thought I would show off one of the fake Cas holograms (on a real Cas coin)
that has been slabbed in an educational slab by ICG :D

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2023/12/16/E1emj.png

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2023/12/16/ELUB8.jpeg

Those are perfect for educational purposes. LMK a price if you are selling it. PM me.

dont you have some of these holograms already?

This hologram is so cute that everyone likes it. I really like the logo on Bitcoin, which has really increased my attraction.