Bitcoin Forum

Here's the deal we need to brake the chain between ( Bitcoin and Drugs )

I found out something very interesting last Monday as I was at the brand new bitcoin atm machine
and something seemed very weird to me as I was there for 2 hours talking with some bitcoin fanatics and some of the robocoin operators and owners. So in those 2 hours I saw a total of 8 men who looked very ragged meaning sketchy and disordered.

This made me think hmmm… so I thought to myself where is the biggest drug operation in Vancouver well isn't this non-suprising the street below is where most drug dealers and drug users are.

So I decided lets drive down there and guess who I saw 7/8 men I saw at the bitcoin atm machine where there to

hmmm…..

Now here is the funny part :

When these drug dealers get this dirty cash they can't put it in the bank because its dirty money and the government will be very suspicious so these drug dealers get all there drug money and go and buy bitcoins then the next week they sell those bitcoins and can show the government those recipes.

This needs to stop
I have tried to get friends and family into bitcoin put apparently ( Its the drug currency )


just a story and opinion I wanted to share

Comment your opinions

If you need fight with drugs, ask US gov to burn Afganistan poppy fields with napalm. Why they don't do it?

Knife linked to Murders
Internet linked to Child porn
Cars linked to Accident
USD linked to All above ...
Dont play this kind of political game plz , Bitcoin is neutral

The drugs connection is a waste of time. Drugs are everywhere and people will always find a way to buy and sell/launder them whether it be USD, Euro, Bitcoin or a Laundromat.

I realize all the comments above are true but you must understand lots of people around the world are hesitant to use btc because of drugs being bought using this so maybe if btc had no connection to hackers or drug dealers more people would buy it

I guess it is their fault for hesitating and losing out then?

In my opinion, those people if they exist, are not serious about buying bitcoin. It's more of a thought than a serious interest.

No. Drugs are not the problem. You should read again:


Are people hesitant to use knives? cars? the internet? US dollars?


No.

exactly.  I think right now there is a negative connotation because of Silk Road, but that'll blow over eventually.  With any currency, there will always be people who can exploit it and try to commit crimes.

From my experience with payments, it always seems that those committing illegal acts are first to adopt to new technologies.  They tend to be a little more knowledgeable (not your crack addicts, but more hacker like people) and are more aware of new emerging trends.

Right.... So do you actually have any proof they are involved in the drug trade or do they just fit the stereotype?

So OP don't buy knifes, because they linked to murders.

Ban clothes, then the criminals can never leave the house!

haha forgot about that assumption. Plenty of good people who "look like" they sell or use drugs and then theres plenty of people who don't look it and do haha.

The fiat money used to be paid for, are in use to pay for and will be used to pay for a murder. Let's stop use fiat money!?

Oh c'mon. That wouldn't stop anybody. Get on with the times :P

Or would it stop... everybody? Would naturists become the only drug dealers? Naturist Bitcoin drug-dealers!  :o

I can't believe no one is getting my POINT!

FIAT CURRENCY IS ALREADY IN USE!
bitcoin is not solid and not a government used currency and I can guarantee I would have over 250 friends and family into bitcoin if it were not for drugs and hackers using bitcoin


If you think drugs are not a factor in bitcoin then I truly feel bad for not just you but everyone around you

So what to do? Implement central authority which will say "this coin is bad and this is good" (like Bitcoin Foundation proposes in internal discussions (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=334520.0))?  ;D

I believe it is necessary to fight with roots of the problem, not with consequences. The roots are drugs dealers existence. Not the bitcoin existence.

I do get your concern. But there is nothing you can do to block people from doing whatever they want with their bitcoins. At least there shouldn't be.

The solution is not in doing something to block bitcoins from being used in drug-related affairs. These people should realise that it happens also with dollars, and knives, and clothes.

It's not that bitcoins should become less drug-related. It's people who should learn to be less stupid and see things in perspective.

this is the same problem we are facing with the bitcoin foundation and those 3 guys who want to red/black/white-list coins. will regulating BTC really work? the only way to deal with those guys is to regulate BTC, but im sure most here don't want that.


i get that USD is used for drug transactions.. but the thing is that BTC allows for criminals to have more options of storing their cash.. options that would otherwise not exist. i'm not for regulation of btc btw, but it's the truth.

The roots are people wanting to do drugs.


Crooks will always find a way. It is a losing battle. Don't fight losing battles.


Beetcoins... omm nomm... should try to carve a casascius hommage beetcoin edition :D

the fact still stands though: it makes being a crook easier. i'm not for regulating BTC, but the media uses this angle all the time.

Look Uncle Sam, here is the recipe for Bitcoin Pie! Please dont indict me on money laundering!

How is it different than cash which I can just store in a safety deposit box?

If you don't like using things that are associated with drugs, don't use money. Or the postal service. Or the pavement. Stop driving. Don't look, or open your eyes, drug dealers use light to see with, they navigate their way to victims that way. They're crafty like that. Stop breathing, drugs need oxygen to get burnt in. Filthy unclean oxygen.  

are you basically asking me how bitcoin is different from cash? a litany of reasons.. as i'm sure you already know.

Well, knives make the job of murderers easier.

Pleasing media: another losing battle.

BTW, nothing stops crooks from making their own Croocoin. It's even catchy! What I mean though is this: the pandora box has been opened.

its more then likely these sketchy people are buying BTC so that they can 'restock' their product. its nothing about cashing out to FIAT later for the tax man. most sketchy people are on government social security payments so they dont want to show government that they are making money 'on the side'.

as for

i whole heartedly agree we need a clear division between bitcoin and drugs, much the same as the euro is not automatically linked to the Amsterdam red light district.

the way this would happen is to highlight the thousands of legit businesses to media. and not even mention the illicit businesses. we all know that dollars, euros, and bitcoin are all at a small fraction used for funding drugs. but ensuring that media know that in the last 4 years Billions of FIAT have been seized in relation to drugs, when only thousands of BTC have been seized related to drugs. which really needs to be emphasised.

EG btc is the dime bag of drugs, dollar is the kilo bag of drugs. there is no denying that there are online black markets using btc, much like there's no denying there's certain street corners and red light districts for fiat.. but out of the scale of things the bitcoin black-market is less then 1% of all btc businesses.

so mention foodler (12k fast food restaurants) everytime someone brings up silkroad
so mention bitcoinstore (thousands of electronic products) everytime someone brings up silkroad

yeah, though BTC does make being a crook easier.. it's not like crooks are going to say "nah we'll live a clean lifestyle because protecting our cash is too hard." but if a crook gets caught, it'll be much harder to track down his BTC vs. stockpiles of cash.

in the end, i think our crooks in washington/wall street are a bigger issue than low level thugs.

Once again the BLACK PROPAGANDA raises its head.



   
Re: 2013-11-15 Wired: Feds Reveal What They Really Think About Bitcoin
November 16, 2013, 08:00:35 AM
   

Look in your own backyard FIRST!!!

The toughest comments came from the Department of Homeland Security. “The anonymity of cyberspace affords a unique opportunity for criminal organizations to launder huge sums of money undetected,” wrote DHS Acting Assistant Secretary for Legislative Affairs Brian de Vallance. “With the advent of virtual currencies and the ease with which financial transactions can be exploited by criminal organizations, DHS has recognized the need for an aggressive posture toward this evolving trend.

The anonymity of CASH/ DOLLARS used in illegal activities is probably 100 to 1000 or even 10,000 or 1MILLION times the value of any virtual used for the same purpose. Maybe they should focus on the BIG problem .

I do not see any action to remove CASH.


i have also been able (sometimes required) to use large amounts of cash. There are quite a few things that (OSTENSIBLY) you cannot do with large cash amounts , the buying a car example is probably bad as you can buy with cash. However the TRUTH in the real world is that there is usually a WAY to do it and MANY do. These examples give  a real life view which is not talked about in polite conversation

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-09-10/money-laundering-exposed-key-component-housing-bubbles-all-cash-bid

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-10-30/top-10-facts-about-us-illegal-drug-market

Recent surveys and research studies by sources from the UN to streetRx.com put the size of the illegal drug market in the U.S. at anywhere from $200 to $750 billion.   99.% of drug transactions are with cash (maybe even 99.99999999999%)

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-04/six-steps-stash-your-cash-offshore

Virtual currency used in illegal transactions is talking about a pimple on the @rse of a Monster!!

So what if it's used for drugs? All forms of currencies are, why not just burn all the fiat money with have because it's all linked to drugs?

+1 educate your freinds if they can't yet see beyond "bitcoin is drugs is bad mmkay" argument

I know there isn't really anything we can do to help BTC with drug dealers but still think its a little problem and just wanted to create this thread to share my thoughts and my story

people get comfortable with looking at things from the same contrived angle, and there isn't really much you can say to sway them.. so all you can do is just say "alright, i'll just move on."

besides, some of the super bullish BTC people can say just as much crazy things as the BTC bears.

Well guys my overall some of this thread is

Drugs aren't a good thing for btc but there is nothing we can do about it

I think maybe the government should focus more on the actual drug dealers and traffickers like they always have and the individuals that may launder their money aka silk road. Attacking BTC is not the answer though.

Lets say that there are 200 000 000 millions users of knives in the USA , in 2010 there were 1,704 deaths by Knives or cutting instruments.
Assuming there are 50 000 transactions daily recorded by the blockchain , that would lead to around 20mil/year.
So , you're assuming there are only 170 transactions related to drugs?
It's all about %.

Also , each year 10/100 000  people die in car accidents. (I am surprised the numbers are going down , while car usage is growing)
Now , are there only 10 people in 100 000 bitcoin users buying drugs?
It's all about %.

About child porn , i don't even want to research that , i find it disgusting.

So , Bitcoin is considered by the average human linked to drugs.
When it finally gets adopted by % and people start using it daily , they will not think about it like that.
But until that , it's about %.

totally agree
I don't know if we should worry about fixing it but we should still be a little concerned!

Its funny that it was originally drugs through Silk Road that first gave Bitcoin an economy to grow around. Now we don't need drugs for sure, but people like you need to stop worrying. Drugs gave Bitcoin its first value and will always be apart of the economy, as that is what Bitcoin is all about: freedom, freedom to do what you and I might not agree with.

If you don't like that truth, that Bitcoin will be used for terrorism, drugs and tax evasion, then please sell your coin now and create an alternative "clean coin".

Cheers.

what's wrong with moderate drug use?

I am somewhat liberal though not a user . There are a number of countries that tolerate or allow the use of certain classes so its a matter of where you are. ALL minors are usually prohibited but there are a few Countries ("3rd world")that allow the use of any class mainly due to one or more of the following reasons

a) no funding to stop the use
b) life is so crappy/painful for so many that let them get on with it is the attitude
c) recreational use  with no proven/obvious/serious damage to health MORE THAN ALCOHOL OR TOBACCO ( could add junk food  :)
d) libertarian outlook.
e) No access or affordability to painkillers ( one of the original pre Pharma days reasons for widespread use..if your in terrible pain what could you use before 1900) and was it as easily available ( or profitable) as opiiates

The history of anti drug use legislation has mostly been the result of it causing big problems in everyday life for many . I have seen the terrible effects of hard drug use so I would support its continued status as illegal. Recreational is another matter and there are many that turn a blind eye or even openly allow . Much of the  legislation is less than 100yrs old, before that there was only attention given to problems that were "in your face" (just like today ?)

1909 The United States prohibits the importation of smoking opium. [Lawrence Kolb, *Drug Addiction*, pp. 145-146]

The history timeline will be entertaining as it includes things that we NOW take for granted as ok

http://inpud.wordpress.com/timeline-of-events-in-the-history-of-drugs/

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/history/drug_law_timeline.htm

Wow OP....judgemental enough?

You know that most people who are homeless can't get a bank account because the banks don't want to deal with them?

Something like 30% of people don't have a bank account, for various reasons the banks won't allow them.

You saw some guys you thought looked "sketchy" and immediately jumped to "drug money"? Fuck you.


Want me to be judgemental about you? I thought not.
I won't speculate on who you are or what you do with your money because I have no idea who you are or what your story is. 

This is just silly.

If you replace the words "Bitcoin ATM" with "ATM" then you're describing a scene at any major city in the world.

Where you have currency, you have drug transactions.  Bitcoin is involved in the smallest minority of drug transactions compared to the rest of the world's currencies.

This. Fuck the judges, fuck the OP.

Tell them to take all of their paper money and burn it because it all has traces of cocaine on it. ALL of it.

If they refuse to think critically, it's not your fault.

If you insist on judging people before knowing their situation, it's not our fault.

You know who else thinks those people are "sketchy" and will refuse them an account?  Banks.

You know what won't?  Bitcoin.

Thus far I've only used my bitcoin to:

A:) Donate to charities/non-profits (Anti-war.com, Sean's Outpost, Shire Sharing, victims in the Philippines)

B:) Pay for services rendered (graphic design)


So, to me, use of bitcoin leads to being more charitable, and compensating people for the value they provide with actual value.


THE HORROR!

Ya , I also have only used my bitcoins towards things that are legal.
But for some people its drugs and stolen money.

CoinValidation will love your wallet...

How about the US dollar being linked to Drugs? Better yet all worldly currencies are linked to drugs in some way. Even any new currency is linked to drugs.

Oxygen, dudes...
We need to unlink oxygen from criminality! ALL criminals use and depend on oxygen.
Now compare ALL criminals using oxygen with a few drug dealers using Bitcoin...

World Bank Estimates that number at 2 billion adults and are moving to put that right. Just saw report a few days ago on BBC.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24897014

If Technology is their view of the way forward  maybe they can include a bitcoin option :)

Imagine if half those 2 billion had at least  a part of a bitcoin in an account Loooooooool!

I agree that the average person will often cite the connection to drugs via the media accounts when they uneducated about bitcoin.

Fiat has the same problem being linked to drugs.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/08/14/cocaine.traces.money/

It is easier for a person to accept what they hear in the media than spend time and do their own research. Especially when it gives them an excuse to discount it and rationalize their decision to not use it. I don't think the average person thinks, wow at some point xx% of this currency was used by drug dealers, if it was only x% I might want to learn more or use it. I never heard in the news that people stopped accepting $100 bills when CNN published this story.

Over time average public opinion will shift when more news stories like the subway accepting bitcoin surface. When the average person is made aware of how it could benefit them, they will ignore the fact that it has been/can be used for shady purposes no matter the stats. I feel that once the senate hearings are over with and no drastic regulation decisions are made more businesses will take the leap to accept bitcoin and mainstream media will start airing more success stories. Just look at what China's media acceptance has done to it as of late.

And thinking that because people look shady/disheveled they must be connected to drugs...very short sighted. By that logic since African Americans are convicted 6 times more than Caucasians are, any that use the ATM must be using it for criminal activity. Many of the homeless/disheveled looking types have untreated psychiatric conditions that make a normal life and maintaining a bank account not possible.

What if you were homeless, burned your bridges with the banks and wanted to save the money you do get for the security deposit/few months rent on a apartment, or even a hotel room for a night. It is not safe to save that kind of cash on your person when you are homeless. I can't wait for the news stories of the homeless turning their lives around thanks to bitcoin.

I think now people are getting over this link.
Silk road is gone and now bitcoin is moving towards publicly accepted morals such as helping third world countries

Don't get so hyped up from breaking the link between DRUG and BTC. 

Real Money is allways linked to DRUG.  It's the nature.  No one can stop it.  If someone wants to go buy Dope, they are going to do it one way or the other.

If I have Chinese Yuen and want to go buy drug, I'm sure there is a market in China that will sell me some. 

USD is famous for contaminated with cocaine and other drugs.  Do you throw USD away because it was used for the drug trade a year ago?  (Hey, if so, PLEASE LET ME KNOW!!!  I'll TAKE YOUR UNWANTED USD!!!)

Which, if you know who I am and what I stand for, is hilarious

So Fiat is not used for drug dealing, buying weapons, and scams? Get a grip.

People traded drugs hundred years ago and bitcoin wasn't around then.