Bitcoin Forum

I purchased around $80 face value junk silver from Amagi Metals for around 4.3 BTC(Was 1,400 at the time) and I only got $10 worth in the mail.
Amagi Metals has agreed to refund me remaining silver that has not been shipped.
I talked with an Amagi representative, and she said that they only can refund $1100 worth in USD due to Bitpay paying them in cash instead of bitcoin.
I think it's insane that BitPay cannot repay my whole 4 BTC back, after all they are damn revolved around bitcoin.
I feel jipped that BitPay stole over $1000 from me.
I've emailed them and will re post a response.

EDIT:

Got a reply from an email(Strange how I got this reply but not the initial refund yet)


Each merchant is allowed to make decisions regarding how to provide refunds for their customer; we don't have any bearing on Amagi's choice of refund. Is there anything else I can help you with at the moment?

Thanks,

Gentry Sherrill
Client Operations Manager


EDIT2: I got a partial refund: https://blockchain.info/address/1QeUgWPdAPGygNnCT8x5TWWGPmC8fnkou

Still need 2.3 BTC for it to be a full refund.

Still wondering why I got a refund when they are "closed" AND they aren't replying to me.

I have seen this before the last time BITcoin shot up in price everyone wanted  a slice of the pie.   Sorry for the loss

Trust me I'll do my best to make this not a loss.

People on Reddit were telling me BitPay converts the BTC to cash for the vendors, but that doesn't mean they still have all the BTC(They do)

That's sad. Especially considering they are supposed to be the largest service of their kind. Ick!

Got a 1.6 BTC refund, still waiting on the rest.

Bitpay sells the BTC they receive, and gives the merchant the exact amount of cash owed for the Bitcoins at the exact time of sale. Then Bitpay sells those BTC, and repeats. While I do think you got the blunt end of the stick, the second you sent your Bitcoins to Bitpay as the intermediate for Amagi, the deal was settled in USD, not BTC. They essentially buy your Bitcoins, and convert it to cash for merchants at the current exchange rates. It works the same for everyone, so don't take it personally. If Amagi took Bitcoins directly, you would be entitled to a refund in BTC. But all they get is the current USD rate which is all they can refund you.

I traced back the coins, and it looks like a huge amount of order coins is sitting on one address.

I know they deal in USD, but BitPay provides like...

Bitcoin for consumer
USD for seller

They should refund in BTC since it is what the consumer pays in.

I'm trying to still get a hold of BitPay, and they should be open right now.

Be careful with this company guys.

why does not amagi metals ship you the metal you are owed? Seems simple no?

or are you trying to get bitcoin back since it has gone up in price?

At this point, since bitcoin is so volatile at the moment, I'd rather just have my 4 BTC back in my possession until I feel comfortable buying silver again

I personally have never had a bad experience with BitPay...

The CEO was just at the senate hearing as well.  ;)

If bitcoin took a nosedive and your 4BTC were only worth $200, would you still be willing to take a 4BTC refund?

Probably not; so you can't have it both ways.

I mean if I paid in bitcoin I'd rather get my bitcoin refunded

Yes, so you paid 4BTC (at the time valued at $1400).

You'd be ok if they refunded 4BTC two weeks later even if that 4BTC was now only worth $200 (because bitcoin value had crashed; so basically a $200 refund for a $1400 purchase)

I don't know if anyone would be happy with it but it would be more viable because it's a bitcoin oriented website.

They most likely would do that if the price fell.

No, they'd refund USD.

I don't understand where bitpay is trying to connect the two together.
Buyers pay with BTC sellers get paid in USD

If a buyer requests a refund they should be able to get it back in BTC, not USD.

BitPay sells your BTC the moment they get it, they're just converting it to USD as a service. It's unfair for them if they have to fork out $1000 that they don't have, is it not?

I've looked at the transactions where my BTC goes and it seems like they all get piled on to one address.

What I surprise no reply from email.

 I appreciate the issue you are describing with BitPay, but I'd have been just this side of enraged at Amagi if I bought $80 face value of silver, paid for it, but got $10 face value in the mail.

What was Amagi's excuse for reneging on the sale? Seems shady...

Keeping tabs on this thread. :)

says it was a shipping error.

They said they could send the remaining but I thought I'd get my 4 BTC back.

Search "refund" at https://bitpay.com/terms . I think it is up to the merchant

Somewhat related, I sent some BTC to Namecheap via Bitpay, and Namecheap refuses to send the converted USD credit remainder (IIRC, after I transferred/renewed domains at a promo rate, and was blocked from any more years) on my account back to me via PayPal. They can do that for affiliates, but not for BTC-paying customers? Ridic.

I think refunding based on the USD exchange rate makes sense and it's ultimately up to the merchant anyway, bitpay is just a middle man. If they do refunds in btc, then they open the door to being exploited. You could buy something for 10 btc and then, if btc value doubles, return it for 10 btc and then buy that thing again for 5 btc. For this reason alone it makes sense that refunds are provided based on current prices. The only exception would be if a company's prices in bitcoin do not depend on the btc/usd exchange rate, but that is understandably rare.

Why don't they just ship you the remaining silver that you're missing from your original order?

What was the listed sale price of the silver you bought?  Was it $1400, or was it 4.3 BTC?

You can only expect a refund of the sale price.  It doesn't matter if you paid in some other currency (BTC, Euros, Yen, whatever) which was converted by a third party payment processor.

Was listed as USD, but I haven't got a verifiable reason from BitPay as to why they cannot refund what I paid.

Currency or not, it's bullshit.

Still no reply from Tony, nor any support of BitPay.
Should I re post this on Reddit?

Of course they might still have your BTC, but what does that have to do with anything? They received BTC and sent USD. Whether those BTC were yours or not is rather irrelevant. It's also unlikely, since exchanging them would require waiting for two transactions to confirm, and payments via BitPay are instantaneous.

You bought an item listed in USD. Instead of exchanging your BTC for USD and then paying with USD using either an online service or the banking system, you used BitPay to eliminate a few additional, time consuming and potentially expensive steps. Without BitPay, you'd get your refund in USD as well.

Think about it:

You buy an item worth 1,000 USD from a seller while the BTC/USD exchange rate is at 500, so you send 2 BTC to Bitpay and the seller receives 1000 USD. Shortly after paying, the exchange rate climbs to 1,000. If it was up to you, you'd immediately demand a refund, the seller would returns 1,000 USD to Bitpay and Bitpay would return 2 BTC to you.

What prevents somebody from sending 1,000 or 10,000 or even 100,000 USD worth of BTC to either a friend or himself when the course is highly volatile, demand a refund if the exchange rate rises and keep the USD if it falls? It's essentially a sell with a buy-back option. Neither BitPay nor anybody else is going to offer that.

I know but you pay in btc, you should get it refunded.

You would think but not during times when the BTC is at $900+   lol  The profit is too huge when they are sitting there and they are just staring at the profit they made on the currency jump.

I know some people from BitPay, PM me if you need help.