Title: Bitcoin, a new currency Post by: fragout on November 20, 2013, 07:52:38 PM I am believer but one thing bothers me after the last weeks crazy price increases. Two of bitcoins main selling points is ease of transfer from one party to another and low fees. It will be great for merchants and consumers etc, but the fact is that any1 who has spent bitcoin since its birth has lost money. They would have been better off holding on to them.
So in theory, you would imagine that more and more people will not spend bitcoin in the future and begin hoarding. This will drive up the price further for a time as supply runs dry (miners will hoard too of course). So this leaves us only with digital gold with the only people buying are speculators and they too will become disillusioned as the promise of bitcoin taking on credit cards, cash, bank transfers western union fade. Im sure this has been discussed many times here, but I had no good answer to a few doubters I ran into today Also when they say bubble, responce ? Title: Re: Bitcoin, a new currency Post by: wopwop on November 20, 2013, 07:56:14 PM let me pop that bubble for ya: it's not the money of the future
that doesn't mean you can make great money from naive people though :D Title: Re: Bitcoin, a new currency Post by: adamstgBit on November 20, 2013, 07:57:45 PM let me pop that bubble for ya: it's not the money of the future that doesn't mean you can make great money from naive people though :D it is money of the future if you can't see that, i'm sorry for you... Title: Re: Bitcoin, a new currency Post by: Nemesis on November 20, 2013, 08:00:40 PM I am believer but one thing bothers me after the last weeks crazy price increases. Two of bitcoins main selling points is ease of transfer from one party to another and low fees. It will be great for merchants and consumers etc, but the fact is that any1 who has spent bitcoin since its birth has lost money. They would have been better off holding on to them. So in theory, you would imagine that more and more people will not spend bitcoin in the future and begin hoarding. This will drive up the price further for a time as supply runs dry (miners will hoard too of course). So this leaves us only with digital gold with the only people buying are speculators and they too will become disillusioned as the promise of bitcoin taking on credit cards, cash, bank transfers western union fade. Im sure this has been discussed many times here, but I had no good answer to a few doubters I ran into today Also when they say bubble, responce ? If you're serious about your questions, you wouldnt have posted here in Speculation section Second, this has been discussed to death. Title: Re: Bitcoin, a new currency Post by: wopwop on November 20, 2013, 08:01:08 PM let me pop that bubble for ya: it's not the money of the future that doesn't mean you can make great money from naive people though :D it is money of the future if you can't see that, i'm sorry for you... but hey, atleast we're making money selling the idea to naive people ;D Title: Re: Bitcoin, a new currency Post by: HoboTheClown on November 20, 2013, 08:03:49 PM Frag, as a small time miner I admit I am hoarding my coins. I don't have many as I started very late and my equipment doesn't do the kind of mining compared to the larger miners out there. I will agree with you that as the price keeps going up no one in their right mind is going to sell any. It all depends on the person though. I recently spent 2.5 btc to purchase some goods. That was before the price had skyrocketed to 800+ in which I missed out in a large gain. Still I don't feel bad that I spent it as I have some more available. As long as the mining continues and the value of btc goes up, I'm satisfied.
Title: Re: Bitcoin, a new currency Post by: adamstgBit on November 20, 2013, 08:04:01 PM let me pop that bubble for ya: it's not the money of the future that doesn't mean you can make great money from naive people though :D it is money of the future if you can't see that, i'm sorry for you... but hey, atleast we're making money selling the idea to naive people ;D USD is the future of payment! Title: Re: Bitcoin, a new currency Post by: Mike Christ on November 20, 2013, 08:04:53 PM I am believer but one thing bothers me after the last weeks crazy price increases. Two of bitcoins main selling points is ease of transfer from one party to another and low fees. It will be great for merchants and consumers etc, but the fact is that any1 who has spent bitcoin since its birth has lost money. They would have been better off holding on to them. So in theory, you would imagine that more and more people will not spend bitcoin in the future and begin hoarding. This will drive up the price further for a time as supply runs dry (miners will hoard too of course). So this leaves us only with digital gold with the only people buying are speculators and they too will become disillusioned as the promise of bitcoin taking on credit cards, cash, bank transfers western union fade. Im sure this has been discussed many times here, but I had no good answer to a few doubters I ran into today Also when they say bubble, responce ? If you're serious about your questions, you wouldnt have posted here in Speculation section Second, this has been discussed to death. It was moved here by a mod :P Title: Re: Bitcoin, a new currency Post by: wopwop on November 20, 2013, 08:05:11 PM let me pop that bubble for ya: it's not the money of the future that doesn't mean you can make great money from naive people though :D it is money of the future if you can't see that, i'm sorry for you... but hey, atleast we're making money selling the idea to naive people ;D USD is the future of payment! bonus of it will be that it will not permanently waste electricity OR, if satoshi2 comes around, Bitcoin without mining will be the money of the future. But for now that doesn't exist ;) Title: Re: Bitcoin, a new currency Post by: adamstgBit on November 20, 2013, 08:05:28 PM its in times like these we see poeples true colors
Title: Re: Bitcoin, a new currency Post by: wopwop on November 20, 2013, 08:07:51 PM its in times like these we see poeples true colors Indeed , it's sick that there are people (miners being the first ones ine line) selling this non-workable idea to naive people on the street trying to make money off of their late-to-the-party moneyTitle: Re: Bitcoin, a new currency Post by: Bitcopia on November 20, 2013, 08:09:29 PM Bitcoin is more than money. It is a speculative investment. Most importantly it is a transactional vehicle that requires no trusted third party. It is capable of being a deed, a trust, a certificate of stock. ALL of these things I have listed are rather independent of price, considering that taking the trusted third party confirmation out of a transaction can be done with a single satoshi in most cases.
You can use bitcoin as a backend system to payment transfers where neither consumers nor merchants ever touch a bitcoin, however it negates the need for an automated clearing house. Talk about a waste of energy! How much energy do you think ACH companies expend comprehensively? Do you really think bitcoin is a less efficient vehicle? Hint: It's not. Don't expect all of these systems to pop up tomorrow. Patience young ones. Legitimate enterprises take many many years to develop, particularly when they are so incredibly unprecedented. Go ahead and panic. I'll keep my bitcoins. Title: Re: Bitcoin, a new currency Post by: Bitcopia on November 20, 2013, 08:14:23 PM Not to mention micro-transactions offered by bitcoin payment processors can and probably will shift the way that internet content is monetized.
Title: Re: Bitcoin, a new currency Post by: wopwop on November 20, 2013, 08:20:00 PM Bitcoin is more than money. It is a speculative investment. Most importantly it is a transactional vehicle that requires no trusted third party. It is capable of being a deed, a trust, a certificate of stock. ALL of these things I have listed are rather independent of price, considering that taking the trusted third party confirmation out of a transaction can be done with a single satoshi in most cases. All those energy-consuming layers on top of the USD base money would exist if it was based on Bitcoin. So Bitcoin is just an additional permanent energy drain, that serves no functional purpose.You can use bitcoin as a backend system to payment transfers where neither consumers nor merchants ever touch a bitcoin, however it negates the need for an automated clearing house. Talk about a waste of energy! How much energy do you think ACH companies expend comprehensively? Do you really think bitcoin is a less efficient vehicle? Hint: It's not. Don't expect all of these systems to pop up tomorrow. Patience young ones. Legitimate enterprises take many many years to develop, particularly when they are so incredibly unprecedented. Go ahead and panic. I'll keep my bitcoins. Title: Re: Bitcoin, a new currency Post by: Bitcopia on November 20, 2013, 08:20:28 PM Also, think outside of your box. Kenya is already using e-float by M-pesa, which we would think is just ridiculous. But they have no legitimate banking structure, so WTF else are they going to do?
Argentina is seeing there peso hyperinflate to death while being exploited by capital controls. Bitcoin is a pretty dang solid store of wealth in such a situation where it is illegal to buy USD or more than a strict limit of precious metal. Title: Re: Bitcoin, a new currency Post by: wopwop on November 20, 2013, 08:20:55 PM Not to mention micro-transactions offered by bitcoin payment processors can and probably will shift the way that internet content is monetized. A One World Currency with One World Central Bank would actually be infinitely cheaper and infinitely faster than Bitcoin :)Title: Re: Bitcoin, a new currency Post by: Bitcopia on November 20, 2013, 08:22:26 PM Bitcoin is more than money. It is a speculative investment. Most importantly it is a transactional vehicle that requires no trusted third party. It is capable of being a deed, a trust, a certificate of stock. ALL of these things I have listed are rather independent of price, considering that taking the trusted third party confirmation out of a transaction can be done with a single satoshi in most cases. All those energy-consuming layers on top of the USD base money would exist if it was based on Bitcoin. So Bitcoin is just an additional permanent energy drain, that serves no functional purpose.You can use bitcoin as a backend system to payment transfers where neither consumers nor merchants ever touch a bitcoin, however it negates the need for an automated clearing house. Talk about a waste of energy! How much energy do you think ACH companies expend comprehensively? Do you really think bitcoin is a less efficient vehicle? Hint: It's not. Don't expect all of these systems to pop up tomorrow. Patience young ones. Legitimate enterprises take many many years to develop, particularly when they are so incredibly unprecedented. Go ahead and panic. I'll keep my bitcoins. Saving merchants 2 - 4% on transactions serves no purpose? More efficient systems replace less efficient systems. It takes time, but it ALWAYS happens eventually. ACH will die like the dinosaur that is. Bitcoin won't exist on top of it. It will replace it. And even IF bitcoin dies, something much like it will take its place. Title: Re: Bitcoin, a new currency Post by: Bitcopia on November 20, 2013, 08:23:04 PM Not to mention micro-transactions offered by bitcoin payment processors can and probably will shift the way that internet content is monetized. A One World Currency with One World Central Bank would actually be infinitely cheaper and infinitely faster than Bitcoin :)You still need trusted third party systems to verify transactions. Title: Re: Bitcoin, a new currency Post by: wopwop on November 20, 2013, 08:36:44 PM Not to mention micro-transactions offered by bitcoin payment processors can and probably will shift the way that internet content is monetized. A One World Currency with One World Central Bank would actually be infinitely cheaper and infinitely faster than Bitcoin :)You still need trusted third party systems to verify transactions. And the central bank can be controlled by the people through 100% transparency Title: Re: Bitcoin, a new currency Post by: Spaceman_Spiff on November 20, 2013, 08:42:17 PM Not to mention micro-transactions offered by bitcoin payment processors can and probably will shift the way that internet content is monetized. A One World Currency with One World Central Bank would actually be infinitely cheaper and infinitely faster than Bitcoin :)You still need trusted third party systems to verify transactions. And the central bank can be controlled by the people through 100% transparency Title: Re: Bitcoin, a new currency Post by: Bitcopia on November 20, 2013, 08:45:16 PM Not to mention micro-transactions offered by bitcoin payment processors can and probably will shift the way that internet content is monetized. A One World Currency with One World Central Bank would actually be infinitely cheaper and infinitely faster than Bitcoin :)You still need trusted third party systems to verify transactions. And the central bank can be controlled by the people through 100% transparency You do realize this is more ridiculous than saying bitcoin is going to be the world reserve currency? I mean can you imagine China, Russia, US, Iran, Syria, UK, Africa, etc... all coming together and saying let's forget about all of our differences :) I would gladly watch my bitcoins go to zero. Title: Re: Bitcoin, a new currency Post by: Melbustus on November 20, 2013, 08:49:21 PM I am believer but one thing bothers me after the last weeks crazy price increases. Two of bitcoins main selling points is ease of transfer from one party to another and low fees. It will be great for merchants and consumers etc, but the fact is that any1 who has spent bitcoin since its birth has lost money. They would have been better off holding on to them. So in theory, you would imagine that more and more people will not spend bitcoin in the future and begin hoarding. This will drive up the price further for a time as supply runs dry (miners will hoard too of course). So this leaves us only with digital gold with the only people buying are speculators and they too will become disillusioned as the promise of bitcoin taking on credit cards, cash, bank transfers western union fade. Im sure this has been discussed many times here, but I had no good answer to a few doubters I ran into today Also when they say bubble, responce ? The "evil hoarding" argument has been getting thrown at bitcoin for years. That and the "OMG, look at how volatile it is!" argument. Those making such arguments either have some alternate motivation to dislike bitcoin, or simply lack sufficient vision to see that these dynamics will eventually change. We are just at the beginning of the adoption curve for this new technology. Many of us have done the math on what bitcoin will have to be worth if it succeeds, and obviously choose to mostly hold on to it at present exchange rates. That said, we also spend it day-to-day (usually re-buying more to make up the difference). The increasing transactional economy (see blockchain.info's charts) shows that more people are actually spending bitcoin despite the savings motivation. As bitcoin gets closer to its equilibrium price, people will be more willing to spend. Volatility will also drop tremendously at that point. We are in the raw, early, price-discovery phase right now, and it can be brutal. It will not always be so. Bitcoin will either succeed and stabilize in the thousands, or it'll fail and stabilize under $10. The current dynamics will be short-lived (though still years, probably). Title: Re: Bitcoin, a new currency Post by: fragout on November 20, 2013, 09:32:41 PM I am believer but one thing bothers me after the last weeks crazy price increases. Two of bitcoins main selling points is ease of transfer from one party to another and low fees. It will be great for merchants and consumers etc, but the fact is that any1 who has spent bitcoin since its birth has lost money. They would have been better off holding on to them. So in theory, you would imagine that more and more people will not spend bitcoin in the future and begin hoarding. This will drive up the price further for a time as supply runs dry (miners will hoard too of course). So this leaves us only with digital gold with the only people buying are speculators and they too will become disillusioned as the promise of bitcoin taking on credit cards, cash, bank transfers western union fade. Im sure this has been discussed many times here, but I had no good answer to a few doubters I ran into today Also when they say bubble, responce ? The "evil hoarding" argument has been getting thrown at bitcoin for years. That and the "OMG, look at how volatile it is!" argument. Those making such arguments either have some alternate motivation to dislike bitcoin, or simply lack sufficient vision to see that these dynamics will eventually change. We are just at the beginning of the adoption curve for this new technology. Many of us have done the math on what bitcoin will have to be worth if it succeeds, and obviously choose to mostly hold on to it at present exchange rates. That said, we also spend it day-to-day (usually re-buying more to make up the difference). The increasing transactional economy (see blockchain.info's charts) shows that more people are actually spending bitcoin despite the savings motivation. As bitcoin gets closer to its equilibrium price, people will be more willing to spend. Volatility will also drop tremendously at that point. We are in the raw, early, price-discovery phase right now, and it can be brutal. It will not always be so. Bitcoin will either succeed and stabilize in the thousands, or it'll fail and stabilize under $10. The current dynamics will be short-lived (though still years, probably). It took 21 posts to get an answer that makes sense. ty sir |