Bitcoin Forum

When I leave Afghanistan I will likely be leaving my steady job and working on Bitcoin projects full time. But I do not plan on living in the US after I return.

Ideally I would like a place where I can just live in a small place on a beach with Internet connection for a few hundred bucks a month.

I'm even fine with just being international and living in a new place every 6 months or so.

Or maybe even a Bitcoin hub like silicon valley for Bitcoin (I know Berlin has a lot of buzz, that is certainly an option).

renounce your citizenship and go and join with one of the Caribbean tax havens? :P that said I hear it's gotten really expensive to remove citizenship in the U.S.

I've been eyeing SE Asia personally.

go to thailand. if you are a white guy, they love whities there. if you go to bars and clubs, the women there will approach you. the country is fairly modern, so i wouldn't call it a 3rd world country. cost of living is not very high either.

I'd avoid Thai women at bars and clubs; they're not there to find lovers as much as they're looking for sugar daddies.  Otherwise I've been considering Thailand myself, only thing I'd hate is having to go back and forth between nations due to their immigration laws.

he could live the bachelor lifestyle.. i'm not saying he should settle down with a thai woman. i don't know that much about their visa laws, but i know there are a lot of foreigners and whities living there, so it shouldn't be that much of a hassle.

I'm planning on heading to Ecuador. If you know Spanish, or can pick it up, its highly recommended.

I do not plan on renouncing my citizenship. I still ignorantly hold out some hope that the people may come to their senses.

I looked at Thailand, I only looked briefly but the rental prices were not much different from my home town $600-$1200/month on average. Though I was looking on craigslist in English which likely preys on Americans.

i've never rented there, but no way rent costs that much. i don't know much about rent there, but this link says $400 for a 2 bed 2 bath place http://internationalliving.com/2013/03/rent-in-thailand-from-400-a-month/

food there is really cheap, about $2-$2.50 a meal too.

Ecuador or peru

another place to consider: the phillippine islands. you probably won't find many other non-western countries that have as big a population that speaks english, ladies all over, and beaches to the north, south, west, and east.

i hear in certain corners it can be quite dangerous though.

I noticed this. Going some place to just work on the Internet does not really fall into a typical immigration scenario.

Most countries are expecting people who are old enough to retire, or someone who is going to work in that country.

How about Cambodia or Vietnam? They're cheaper (and poorer) than Thailand.

whoa, $700-$180 for monthly rent in the city for the philippines.. that's pretty damn cheap and you don't need to learn a new language. http://www.expatfocus.com/expatriate-philippines-currency-costs


cambodia can be quite dangerous and their infrastructure is not as up to date as vietnam. you could get by in vietnam, but the language barrier sucks.

Goto India, Mumbai or Bangalore.

One question to consider is which countries will allow you to stay indefinitely as a non-citizen without a job.  Unless you're willing to frequently return to the states, that might limit your options somewhat.

Mumbai being the financial centre is one the most expensive cities in India.

I don't know if it is possible but take a look at the United Arab Emirates, Dubai!

he's looking for a cheap place to live. living in HK is probably just as expensive as live in america.

Sun , beach , plasma tv at half price , welcoming people tired of the Us > Venezuela :))))))

Philippines

You can live there for a couple hundred a month, easy to find a good girl, most young people speak some english, language is easy to learn.

If you want, you can easily disappear, especially in Manila.

How about Uruguay?

Great beaches, clean, safe, and loves Bitcoin.

Costa Rica

isn't costa rica really expensive? it's a common destination for american expats after all.

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=Costa+Rica

I also think the Philippines might be a good place to stay for a while.  Never been but I think it would be a decent place to look into, especially if your ok with moving every 6 months or so. 

Philippines I would agree with - mainly English speaking with Christian tradition, but a large indigenous Muslim population if you are Muslim.
Easy to fit in. Friendly people. Cheap to live if you want to. Sunny beaches everywhere.

Considering this, I could see myself as a world traveller. Stay in a country as long as you can, then move somewhere more fun and do it all again. Maybe only for like a year or three, but I'd like to do this :)

life is too short for any one place

they are searching for Love.

or you life in russia. Snowden seems to like it too 



 :P

With the most expensive city in Europe?
Also , why do you think people run from Russia?

My second home is Belize. It's a great place to live for ex-pats.

The fact that HK is under China's thumb is also a big negative. I think even if HK were independent they'd be more open to cryptos. Not sure if I can offer a good alternative tho. Maybe Singapore? Just throwing something out there

isn't belize kind of a hellscape.. the island life may be nice, but don't expats get kidnapped for ransom there?

Stay in America to assist with the turning of days.

Na. I worried more about that in Panama. While there is some crime, especially around Belize city, it's not scary if your used to America. Or like Elwar, Afghanistan. I have been going there now for about 30 years and never had a problem with violence. I did once get shaken down by customs though.  

Perhaps the Philippines, Japan or Taiwan, Asia seems like a great place aside from the obvious issues.

I stayed in Goa for about a month at the end of a backpacking trip to India. It was a really nice place to hang around for a medium term stay. Much more laid back than much of India but almost as cheap; delicious European/Indian fusion food; awesome beaches and countryside (some of the most beautiful I've ever been to); chilled out people; and of course to make sure you don't forget you're in India.. cows. Cows on the beach. Beach cows.

I stayed in Palolem, a tiny beach village (that was also in one of the Bourne movies, hehe). I actually did some work from the Internet cafes there, enough so they got to know me. If you had a laptop and found somewhere nice to work with wifi you'd be happy there for a long time. And the rest of India is within reach too.

If I was single and wanted to do this kind of thing, Goa would definitely be right up on my list.

Edit: Other countries I'd definitely investigate: Croatia; Chile; Greece.

You have so many options. You could do the cheap in crisis European countries, Spain, Italy, Portugal, Greece, Malta, any number of Latin American countries, Colombia, Costa Rica, Honduras, Nicaragua, Mexico, Belize, a variety of Caribbean countries, and SE Asia, Cambodia Thailand ect.

Any attempt at that would just get shut down by our giant fucking military, unless some other countries were helping us out..

You forget there are some pretty staunch supporters of Ron Paul in the U.S Armed forces as well and did you see that afghan veteran who yelled at the police? If the U.S troops were ordered to shoot civilians you can bet it would end up like Syria where at least some of them would rebel.

These won't rebel...
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02083/MQ-9-Reaper_2083967b.jpg

To be honest I think you underestimate the capacity for humans to do terrible things under the control of a perceived authority. Also Syrians and Americans are two different kettles of fish, I think most of us Westerners are not as brave enough and willing to rebel even in the face of destruction.

They're still piloted remotely, so their pilots can rebel :P

Sure but it makes is a lot less likely in my opinion, in fact I can imagine Americans turning on each other as massive propaganda campaigns would route out the new [insert communist/terrorist here] threat. To be honest who needs to use military when you can cut of the food/water/electricity supply in the blink of an eye. Police are probably the most dangerous and less likely to not rebel I think, I have little faith those.

Slovenia, Czech, and Slovakia are nice places for Bitcoiners.

Also, great beer and lovely ladies!   8)

Unless we take them out with peace.  All it takes is people to stop using money and we are free.

In Libya the aircraft pilots dropped their bombs and missed on purpose because they didn't want to carry out their orders and bomb innocent people who were just fighting for their lives, honestly, I know there are people on the internet who think the government are this big scary totalitarian regime but the fact is the majority of the time it's a sociopath against the rest of the world and usually the rest of the world bands together to stop them.

That said we've gone a bit off topic, but anyway yeah, picking a Bitcoin friendly country is a good idea, not sure what I'm going to do here in the UK with what's going on right now.

I hear North Korea is nice this time of year  ;D

Hmm, you can buy groceries with bitcoin in Canada or Germany but neither is cheap or particularly known for sunny beaches. While looking at high tech options where a startup could do well Estonia should be on the radar too. The islands of Belize are pretty good unless you're slightly crazy and have an anti-virus company named after you. Uruguay would be worth checking out a bit more. Argentina is running on an insane economic policy but I'll bet if you showed up with a pocket full of bitcoin you could do quite well. I think moving around a bit and seeing where you like is a good way to start. I'd love to check a bunch of places out.
Maderia, the Azores, the Canaries, Portugal, Gibraltar, Barcelona, Ibiza, Mallorca, Ceuta, Melilla, Pompeii, Corsica, Sardinia, Malta, Cyprus, the Dead Sea, Mwanza, Tanzania, Zanzibar, Namibia, Tasmania, the Cayman Islands, Barbados, Mauritius, etc.

I knew a guy who rented a place on the beach, tutored English and really enjoyed himself in Taiwan for a few years. Singapore is extremely expensive but still a fascinating city.

I'd be a little scared to visit Transnistria, South Ossetia and Abkhazia not being a Russian. However you could go visit the preparations for the Olympics in Sochi.

If you need infrastructure to build things though you'll probably gravitate to Southern California, Shenzhen or Hong Kong.

Sooner or later, the police state jackboots will mess with the wrong vet, a well-connected and highly-respected vet who didn't watch his buddies die face down in the sand just to return home to an unconstitutional empire led by a supreme executive.

Then it's the Battle of Athens, writ large.  Open season on the thug pigs, from Good Guys and Bad Guys alike.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_%281946%29

I honestly don't feel it will come to that. There is no reason that is has to come to that. We as humans are capable of peaceful change. Take Iceland for example/

But if it did, that isn't bravery... it's fucking stupidity. Sad times we're living in. But these are also very interesting and pivotal times.(as are all times in history, just depends how humans react.) We've been kicking the can down the road for far too long.

Luxemburg
Caymans

You probably want to eschew Cyprus :D

I appreciate all of the responses. I may have to just take a year and just stay in different locations for a month or so at a time. Most countries allow you to stay there for a month on a tourist visa.

People from Argentina are running away to Uruguay.... The country is booming. I would go their now and enjoy the next 20 years until the next generation starts wearing Che T Shirts. No country is amazing for a long time. Use the Che T Shirt matrix system to know when it is time to split :)

Chile, Peru, Colombia, Ecuador, and Uruguay

South America is very appealing to me lately. Even better if you know Spanish and it is a pretty easy language to pick up.

those countries are probably pretty stable ^ but generally speaking, isn't south america kind of unsafe?

That's kind of a vague statement. It would be the equivalent of me saying the US is unsafe. You won't find a country that is 100% safe (Switzerland maybe?). One will have to do their due diligence to research and visit those countries in order to make an informed decision as far as picking a new country to live in and especially to avoid living in the seedy parts of town.

well, i know columbia and venezula are pretty unsafe.. as people are getting kidnapped left and right. if the OP plans to live in south america, he's probably going to want to travel in the surrounding areas too after all.. so it would limit his options on where to go on vacation from his "vacation."

I'm in the Philippines. :) A bunch of expats are also living here, including Mr. Tagbond (founder and owner of vtc.com)

Yeah, I didn't include Venezuela a place to live as I have an acquaintance that works in Caracas and know what's going on over there. It's very unstable over there. Also avoid Brazil and Argentina.

However, I've been to Medellin Colombia and have friends who are from the area and it is surprisingly nice over there. Beautiful scenery and low crime. There are some shady areas in Colombia of course, but there are also some really good areas to visit. If you look at the cycle of nations and all the problems they had in the past, Colombia is definitely on an upswing.

Chile is my favorite though as far as South America goes even despite the earthquakes. :)

I'd look into Chile. Research it. Google Sovereign Man Simon Black Chile. Immigration supposed to be easy, cheap, safest of South America, infrastructure ok.

If you can pass NZ immigration, I'd also look into that. Australia is always nice, too.

Hong Kong for fast internet and if you are still looking to start businesses or work, earn money, good for low tax rates.

Thailand is not bad if you are no longer working, just want to have good food, sports, health releated stuff, but immigration is a pain unless you have lots of spare money and want to join the "Thailand Elite" program. Language is also difficult to master perfectly especially reading and writing. Internet infrastructure and power cuts are bad if you are still productive, can also be bad for networking unless you are in polluted, noisy, flooding Bangkok.

I lost my eye in Philippines due to an attack by a gang of youth (and the police were involved too) and it was in the area where all the bars are and the foreigners hang out.

More importantly, you will hate the Philippines for at least a couple of years:

http://liveinthephilippines.com/content/you-wont-like-living-in-the-philippines/

The only way you will really like the Philippines is if:

1. You like Christians, otherwise go to Thailand.

2. And you like everything to be incredibly inefficient and difficult.

3. And you like that your neighbors will put a 115 dB karaoke and male rooster next to your bedroom and home-office windows.

4. Or you are rich enough to live in a bubble so you aren't exposed to the real Philippines, in which case you will be exposed to the real kidnapping and extortion.

For the moment, the Philippines has improved a bit, but by 2016 the bad times will return and you will NOT want to be in the country:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jessecolombo/2013/11/21/heres-why-the-philippines-economic-miracle-is-really-a-bubble-in-disguise/

I was in the Philippines during the 1998 Asian crisis and I left to the USA. It was just miserable. The people were so pissed off. Boys always yelling "hey joe, fuck you". "hey joe, give me your money". Then the jeepney drivers running me off the road into a tree when ever I would try to ride my bicycle on the road.


I have adjusted and I now love the place. But it took decades to adjust. And I am not the same person I was 20 years ago. And I know many techniques that aid me in being happy and more efficient in this inefficient place.

Yet I am not sure if I will stay when the really bad times return. As much as I love the filipinos, that was hell during the Asian crisis. Everyone was trying to use and abuse me.

The filipinos are sweet people, they are hard working, etc.. But people are not happy when they can't eat what they like. Try eating bananas every day with no meat. I have tried it, you won't be in a good mood.

Philippines isn't really the best of plans actually with the floods as well and I can vouch for the Christian stuff because I have a friend who lives in a devout family but they clearly hate living with them lol :P I'd avoid any country with political instability and known crime areas unless you know a guy you can trade an RPG or a Tank for Bitcoins.

at this point, i think the best option is central/south america or southeast asia.. low cost of living, and central/south america is full of spanish speakers, which is easy to pick up if you speak english. SE asia is probably a tad bit safer to live in though.

Hands down the underpants Homelove Security is prepared this time as their labeling of you all as terrorists in recent documents is the justification for their funding from Congress to purchase 2714 tank-like armored vehicles and 6 billion hollow point rounds (illegal in war by Hague Convention). All local law enforcement have been deputized as federal police since 2006 and are now under Homelove.

Recent developments on gun control such as an executive order from Obama show that just as in Katrina, they will come to confiscate your weapons in your home and handcuff you (http://www.wnd.com/2013/02/see-police-confiscate-guns-from-americans/) (see the videos on linked page, also links to related articles on right pane) even in wealthy neighborhoods (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9qQ-2zeX0E) to incite you to attack so they can eliminate the resistance.

Katrina was a dry run. There was another dry run during the BP oil disaster.

P.S. I was born in New Orleans. And we survived Hurricane Camile (perhaps as strong as the recent typhoon that hit the Philippines) without the nonsense they did for Katrina. My sister (http://www.kinshipcircle.org/disasters/gulfcoast/newsletters/07-06-10.html#1) was instrumental in the Louisiana passing a law (http://memoriesofshannon.blogspot.com/2006/06/animal-law-coalition-in-memoriam.html) making it illegal in the future to force people to abandon their animals. My sister personally rescued thousands of animals.

there's probably no place to go to get away from human waste. i was in pattaya thailand, where many sex tourists consider it a heaven on earth.. except for the fact that i saw many starving people sitting by the curbside.

Especially those who like a quirkie ladyboy BJ while kneeing in human waste (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/687206-broken-transformer-box-used-for-oral-sex-by-prostitutes-on-pattaya-beach/).

if we're talking about ladyboys, christ.. i want no part of them, but i felt kinda bad at how desperate they were. one even grabbed my crotch, and i tried to head in a different direction.. and he jumped right into my space.

the positive side about thailand is that, i believe, some form of magic mushrooms are legal  :D

buy a yatch and sail from island to island, you are not getting younger, f*ck the job, f*k internet, there are poo load of paradise islands that nobody ever cares surrounding east malaysia, indo, philippines and what not, waiting for btc millionaires to explore

What about Argentina along the south coast is not densely populated or Uruguay? Argentina is descending into hyperinflation again and will become dirt cheap again.

Most all of the developing countries will become dirt cheap after 2016 or 2018 (but not as cheap as 1970s and 1980s), because the QE ended up as debt in the developing world. The downside risk are the hungry masses caused by the coming crisis.

I agree that exploration is probably best because each person is different and has to find the place that fits to them.

I wrote an email to my Colombian friend (currently in Argentina) and I explained why filipinos are unique but many foreigners will not relate to what is important to the filipino as follows:


Culture matters. You don't know a place, until you know the culture.

Enjoy your travels. The world is still a diverse and interesting place in spite of that mayonnaise spread (cover the real taste) of "McDonalds and TV" broadcasting into every corner of the globe.

Could you give some more info? There seems to be a bit of consensus on the Phillipenes. Family and I want out of the US, too, but haven't found much of a solution considering South Africa is high on the move-to list. :D

Is it difficult to get a residency license (any special restrictions)? Is the Internet infrastructure decent (bandwidth caps common?)? On the political stability issue, are there any significant anti-immigrant factions? How are the taxes? Is rural living comfortable, or is it basically "live in a city or don't expect modern comforts"?

Can look a good bit of this up, but info's usually pretty vague (or flat-out inaccurate), so even if you could only answer a couple questions, would really appreciate it.

Warning there is a very high likelihood your filipina gf has a filipino bf. For example, we used to see "her cousin" holding hands with a filipina who was married to a guy from the Netherlands every time he was in Europe.

The reason is because foreigners don't love the way a filipino does. For one thing foreigners spend too much time alone or on the computer and filipinos want continuous talking and joking nonstop with the house full of noise and people. Secondly because the filipino can ejaculate 10 or 15 times and never gets soft (I don't know why, maybe it is the food, or the smaller size or just genetic, but I verified this by asking numerous females). The foreigner typically can not satisfy the filipina in all the ways, emotionally, culturally, and sexually (despite what she might feign). He might satisfy her need for stability and family, then he has a good chance of her sacrificing for him. but he will pay for this.

Of course some foreigners find someone that can corral, but this is a struggle and the filipina will sometimes sacrifice for the stability and the money. And some filipinas have adopted western culture too, especially in the big cities. Yet the filipino culture is still lurking in them.


If you marry a filipina, you can get permanent residency for $30. Show up once a year at immigration. Otherwise, you can attain this on a retirement visa without marrying by depositing $15,000 in a Philippine bank if 50 or older, else $35,000 if older than 35. You show up at immigration once a year and pay a few $100s per year. You can use the money to buy a condo, but there are some significant yearly fees if you do so.

If not that, if you proceed directly to Manila immigration, they can issue you a 6 month tourist visa. This is a brand new option this year. You can extend every 2 months for up to 16 months total, cost about $60 - 70 per 2 months.

A rental which most foreigners would find acceptable is probably no less than $400 - $500 per month in the city where I am, but it increases when you get into the cities and areas that the foreigners prefer more. Of course there are dirt cheap places, I am currently renting a small house (chicken cot) for $80 per month. I rent another nice house with real hot tub in the mountain (very difficult to find) for $300 per month.

Internet sucks in most places, at least in the past. If you are lucky, you can get a good DSL connection in the major cities up to 10 Mbps. But "lucky" is an important point, because the locals pirate the lines, and enforcement against competing electromagnetic interference is lax. So sometimes it just doesn't work and it isn't fixed. It may be getting better. I recently obtained a 5 Mbps connection from Globe and so far it has been excellent. But my past experiences were horrible. Fingers crossed.

You will get nothing for internet outside the city. Maybe if you are lucky a really crappy 3G signal that will be down and drop out driving you crazy.

Food is horrible in the Philippines. Absolutely horrible in terms of what foreigners like. I am warning, the food is horrible.

I have adjusted a bit to local food, but it is still my biggest problem. And it gets worse the farther you get from Manila and Angeles City. Cebu City has a little bit to offer (Ayala Mall area, etc), but in my opinion is a traffic and dust hell hole and getting worse. Mactan Island is getting overpopulated now, not like in past decades it was nice. The Philippines economy is starting to heat up with debt, so road and building construction every where, meaning mud, dust, traffic, jackhammers, etc.. After the debt bubble crashes (2017ish), you will see your short pants on a local boy if you hang them on the clothesline outside. Even your spoons will magically disappear.

Law and order varies a lot. For example, a Belgium friend and I tried living in the native areas of Bukidnon and they will steal even meat from your table if you go inside to take a pee. Whereas, I had no problems around Mt. Apo. But on the other side is Cotabato and I've known foreigners who lost body parts in that region. Davao is one of the safest cities in Asia, but you will be bored out-of-your-mind. They don't have the nightlife here and there is basically nothing to do (except the typical filipino thing of sitting around with family and friends talking and joking, very simple life), other than explore nature. And once you exit the city, as I described above, the law & order varies a lot even 50 - 100 kilometers away.

Outside the cities expect mud, lots of mud, I mean lose your shoe and never find it again mud. Or sticky mud (imagine human feces) that takes you an hour to clean off your shoes. Of course it varies and if you spend enough on development you can fix this, except you can't. Every foreigner who has invested money (to show off their wealth) in the Philippines outside the city has lost it all, or at least lost it to his family (which might be acceptable if you are close with them and trust them). Do I need to tell stories? The locals will take it from you, one way or the other.

Filipinos are not anti-immigrant usually. They are usually warm, smiling, and open arms. But you can encounter the odd ball, especially outside the cities because some native groups are more suspicious of foreigners (some love you more, but they also typically love your money more).

Bear in mind, the Philippines is developing rapidly lately with all the USA's QE carry trade debt pouring in as bond issues by the major corporations. And the banks are loaning at very low interest rates. Thus there is much new development, and so there might be new developments in rural areas that I don't know about. I traveled a lot in the past and less so lately.

If you need more specific info or clarifications, just ask.

^ Wow. Thanks for the detailed response. "Maybe if you are lucky a really crappy 3G signal that will be down and drop out driving you crazy."  :D That's my current situation in the US. DSL doesn't come out here. I think a semi-stable 100kb/s is pretty fuckin' awesome. :)

Are brides and grooms cheap and relatively safe to "rent"? Know if we get to move children? I think I'll look into the six-month tourist visa and see if someone would be willing to put us up on the cheap.

Any words on the tax situation there?

I was actually thinking about asking on the food, but didn't want to cause question overload. I'm a meats and cheese kind of guy, wife's a raw vegetables kind of person (we've never been legally married, so a marriage sham is relatively favorable to us). I'm not sure I could tolerate a 100% crops kind of place, though so long as raw milk and meats are available, we only eat out maybe four times a year, anyway.

I'm a fairly large and intimidating-looking kind of person, paranoid and without much shyness toward guns, so I'm not too worried about disorder (in fact, though I dislike people, I'm quite comfortable in disorder). Davao sounds quite enjoyable. We never go out except for groceries or if begged to by family. We live quite simply, and I don't imagine that ever changing. Out "silverware" is the cheapest stainless steel and will be no matter how much money we have. I was raised strict baptist, so I have no issues living among the hardcore Christians (or Muslims, really, though Idunno if I'd be nearly as accepted, there). :)

Cosidering Phuket (lots of expats there) myself on an education visa:

http://stayinginthailand.com/visa-information.html

Then you might do well. If you choose a very religious family, you may find the lady is very appreciative of you and truly so. Because it is how you integrate with the family that matters so much to her. You marry the family, not the girl.

If your filipina wife will declare the capital gains, the capital gains tax is only 5%! The VAT is 12.5%. The income tax is lower than USA and I think the top rate is around 36%.

You can find a wife here very easily. They will accept and care for your children, if you are supporting their family too.

---

Oh I read further and see you want an arranged situation. Yeah I am sure you can attain that, but then you need to be careful because you are subject to extortion. I think you would be much better off with the retirement visa, much less risk. You can bring your kids and "wife" in on that same visa. I don't know what the tax situation is on a retirement visa. I think it also depends on your home country. US citizens are taxed on their worldwide income and gains.

You can get meat here, but the beef is not really the most delicious. But it is not horrible. When I say the food is horrible, I mean the prepared food mostly. They import all the cheese. The tropics aren't a great place for raising cows apparently.

On the cheap? The filipinos expect you to support them, not the other way around. Their hospitality is wonderful, but you are paying for it.

The education system is not up to western standards. Too much dancing and not enough mathematics.

Edit: if you marry into a wealthier or upper middle class family in the Philippines, your experiences might be different than what I described. Also stereotypes are not always valid. People are diverse.

:D I'm 22. I don't think I'd qualify for a retirement visa quite yet. Is citizenship possible? I'd certainly be happy to fully renounce my US citizenship if I like the place after looking around, but I'm under the belief that that's impossible unless you're a citizen somewhere else. If nothing else, I'd be fine taking a "come and take it" stance, waiting for extradition from a country I don't want to be in so it can demand taxes I'd refuse to pay, anyway. I'd even be fine bribing the official overseeing my case a few thousand $ per year as necessary (Idunno how common corruption/bribes are there).

I can live with the education system. I prepared a decent home-schooling curriculum about a year ago (up to grade 6, I believe) and just need to fill out the actual lesson plans. If anything's missed, it's easy enough for me to fill in. I already have all the grade milestones I expect daughter to achieve.

I wasn't actually expecting much interaction at all with the fake family -- maybe $100 a month to both the husband and wife to leave us alone? A total annual cost for all this being <$5000, I think, would be quite reasonable to not have to support the US government (and be subject to its laws). That VAT seems quite extreme, but I can earn a fair amount without needing supplies (though if there's any kind of skilled worker visa, I certainly wouldn't meet their demands). In the US, I don't actually pay any taxes due to the deductions... Idunno how feasible that'd be in the Phillipines, though so long as they don't have an "adventurous" military force, I have no qualms paying it.

Thanks again for the responses.

ETA: I was thinking it'd be reasonable to just say the fake wife and husband live with us in a two-family room-mate situation?

Man I am thinking you want Argentina. Beef and cheese galore. Wide open spaces, farms, mountains, beaches and a Mediterranean (Californian) climate. You can bribe your way to what you want. The bureaucracy is slower than watching paint dry, so avoid it as much as possible.

You can get citizenship in Brazil or Paraguay. Then you are free to live in Argentina. Paraguay might have the best tax arrangement.

Why Asia? For the women?

Colombia is loaded with sexy women.

That fake marriage thing is asking for trouble. I used to have complex fantasies like that, I guess that is normal when young. As you get older, experience will beat you down and you will realize K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid).

Complex arrangements with people never work out. People are very, very unpredictable. Don't learn the hard way.

http://tdvpassports.com/

Same here! I am also searching for a warm place for the winter at least and maybe even longer. And I already considered almost all the places mentioned in this thread here.

I would definitely like to have some fellow Bitcoin people around me and also hire some local developers.

Maybe we can also find a group of people who would like to move to the same place or nearby. Maybe renting out a villa in Thailand or caribbean together and creating a BTC hub.

Most beautiful would be a city with a nice beach and mountains behind. Somewhere between half a million and 4 million inhabitants. Nice infrastructure, fast internet, no or few/simple taxes, simple laws and friendly people. English speaking is a plus but I would also like to pick-up a new language.

There is a community in Alcoy, Cebu of foreigners. Maybe they can help out. I had forgotten about this:

http://www.alternativephilippines.de/references.htm

The Phillipines are getting a lot of mention in the thread and I hadn't previously considered it (I haven't looked at South America at all, though, not because of any particular reservations, but because Africa and eastern Europe seemed most reasonable). I have no interest in women (other than "wife"). The widespread corruption is actually why I was considering South Africa. I'd love to be accepted as a tax-paying person in a foreign country so long as the up-front fees are low. I love the start the US has given me, but I really just don't want to live here. I don't want to have to bribe people to be accepted as an equal citizen in another country, but I'll do it if it gets me out of the major moral dilemma I'm in. All of my reservations toward paying taxes immediately disappear so long as the military is defensive rather than murderous, but most countries have a pretty grim attitude toward potential immigrants.

All I want is a quiet place where I can be eccentric online, earn my money there, not feel ashamed because of where I live, and be a complete recluse "in public." AFAIK, nobody offers citizenship just because a potential emigrant has moral qualms with the government insisting ownership over where they live. Everyone says "well, if you don't like the US, just move," but it's so much harder to do than say.

I'll look into some of the S.American countries you mentioned.

Re-read the prior post, I added a link for you:

http://tdvpassports.com/

Philippines is not the right place, as you can't get citizenship here (unless you are Chinese and know how to work the system and deal with extortion because your fellow Chinese own the government).

Cambodia is an option for citizenship, but I don't trust it. I think they will reneg on it later.

Africa just seems so volatile and dangerous, although I've never been there.

I think Central or South America is more viable. I am assuming you are an American, because you mention by implication the US military. I agree with you, I am American and I don't like paying for that. As well, really bad sh8t is coming to the USA.

Note violence can be very high in latin american countries, so I would seek out low population density and more european mix, such as Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, or Paraguay.

Hmmm... There is something here. I don't know what it could be. I keep reminding everyone else about the following:

1. political instability
2. typhoons (there's a storm every year, not just this year.)
3. rebels
4. power outages (and electric rates above $0.20+ per kwh)
5. volcanos (rare, but happened a few times already.)
6. corrupt policemen, corrupt traffic enforcers, corrupt government officials. (PNoy is trying to get rid of them. He will fail.)

You can just look up history and see for yourself. It's not like the country can hide the truth that goes on. Every other blog has something, and even the locals have their own blogs, facebooks, tweets, etc.

However, some people manage to find what they want here, and stay.

I was born here, so ... I'm quite biased. But AnonyMint, Tagbond, and a bunch of others ... Why did they stay here?

Some of the good points about staying here:

1. Language. Almost everyone understands English. But you would do better if you learned Tagalog or Cebuano, or whatever dialect of whatever place you will stay in.
2. The best beer? San Miguel?
3. The best beaches? Boracay. And there are 100 others that are hidden and not mentioned in any book.
4. Culture. Some of these provinces have buildings really old, usually churches.
5. If you open a foreign currency account, no one can touch it, or look at it. Not even the Senate over ruled during the ousting of the Supreme Court Chief Justice. Of course, you'd do a lot better to just keep your stash in bitcoins.
6. If you become a citizen, you can buy full auto guns. If you're into that thing. (Even if you don't become a citizen, there are ways to get them, but I'll leave that for you to discover when you arrive here.)

Maybe there's something else, but I can't think of it.

The bebots?

http://www.bebotsonly.com/

But what about european contries?

1 & 3 mostly relates to the autonomous region, yes? From what I've read, it sounds like a band of rapists and murderous thugs pretending to be legitimate, popular Islamic rebels, while the communist thugs seem more interested in terrorizing locals and operating like a retarded "agricultural mafia."
2 is worrying.... I'd call that the tradeoff for cheaper property, where city properties in PH are about on par with rural property prices in the US. I'm not sure there's much way to deal with that outside of considering houses disposable.
4 isn't much off what I pay now (~$.14-.18 after taxes and fees [progressive pricing, so you pay more per KWh as you use more]), and I could take a picture of our twig-like utility poles literally supported by trees in some cases so you can get an idea on how often our power's out. :D
5 - I have absolutely no idea how to deal with a volcano. I've never experienced anything like a volcano eruption.
6 - This may be a concern. Are you talking about bribery/"tips" kind of graft, or traitorous officers working on salary for rebel organizations or crime cartels?

At least worth a visit, I think. Could be fun. Maybe starting in a couple years, spend the next 5 years visiting one or two countries each year for a couple months each. At the end of the five year shopping period, pick out a place to live. I'd normally refuse to ever budget that kind of luxury, but if I can call it "country-shopping," could work out in my mind. Airfare's crazy-cheap anymore... $1,600 round-trip per person Detroit-Davao. For three, that's about a $5k expense. Assuming a decent furnished house in Davao @ 50K PHP/mo (factoring in a decent markup for the short contract), that's another $2.2K. Food, visa extension, land travel, and whatnots... That's about a $10k 2-month vacation as I see it, and so long as it has a decent Internet connection, I'd be generating the same income as at home.

It'd be cheaper to do one-month stays so I don't have to go through tourist visa extensions, package them all up into one year-long vacation when daughter's old enough to really appreciate it. Maybe get a group of Bitcoiners together and go patronize the existing BTC-accepting businesses there. For the whole year, I'd guess costs for a year-long potential-expat globe-trot to twelve different countries (excluding most of Westernized Europe) would be around $40k per person if managed well, including coach+ airfare (low-grade airfare for cross-ocean flights would suck), boarding in a "normal" house, a local or few to hang out with, and food. With enough publicity, maybe some towns would even put us up for free for the chance at a basket full of entrepreneurial expats. Go from US to PH, to Taiwan, to Goa, to Greece, to Slovakia, to Czech Republic, to Italy, to Uruguay, to Peru, to Ecuador, to Panama, to Belize, then back to the US to see whose house was looted while gone. I'll go ahead and make some sheets to see retail costs, potential travel hiccups, and how many weeks that involves sitting on a plane. Some of those may need to be dumped just because it's the only country with a particular language (which is good. Maybe we can fit in more tourist-y areas between intercontinental flights). Maybe it could turn into a "thing," though Idunno if having a group of Americans walking around in some of these places is a good idea. We could call it the White Flight! ::)

If Bitcoin ever became widely accepted by that time, international travel would be a frictionless dreamland. Just bring a laminated piece of paper with the QR code of an encrypted wallet... head to place being stayed at, open wallet, send walk-around money to phone app. Traveling with a group, no need to worry about needing a short-notice loan if there's something you find in town.

In short, come to the Philippines for the friendships and the raw naturalness, or don't come. There isn't much here other than that. Really. Everything else is sub-par from a modern westerner's perspective.


The flooding and traffic in Manila are horrendous and very big drag on daily life.

The power outages in Mindanao in 2013 outside of Davao (which never has them) was so bad that I stopped going to my mountain house.

So none of the above is affecting me much. To me the above list does not reflect the true problems from a westerners' perspective.

My problems here are (some are over-generalizations and not true in all cases):

a. I can't be a citizen, thus I can't own land nor do business as a 100% owner (but I hope it stays this way!)

b. There is no grass field nor oval in a cold climate nearby where I can do my sports at the level I could in a non-tropical climate.

c. I can't buy many of things I want to buy, such as there are no gold and silver coin dealers. No ASIC sales. Can't buy Mexican food. Can't buy electronics I need such as inverter that isn't China made junk that breaks after 36 hours.

d. Prepared food choice really sucks. It is much better in Manila, but then you face all the serious daily problems I listed above.

e. Before I could never get decent internet connection. I finally have one since Oct 26.

f. Noise pollution. A karaoke so loud you can't work or sleep. A male rooster so loud you can work or sleep.

g. Smoke pollution. Filipinos burn the trash in piles every day, so there is smoke all over in evenings.

h. Mosquitos. Dengue (had it 2X already). All sorts of other infections. I nearly died May 2012. The people are always coughing and always sick, because they don't eat properly and they live like rats and sardines so the infections spread.

i. People don't think. You will wonder if they have a brain stem. For example, they will walk right in front of your oncoming car and if you hit them, you will be the one with a huge problem. They drive on the wrong side of the road. They make U-turn to the left from the rightmost lane on a 4 lane highway cutting you off. You hit them, you as a foreigner will be pay for everything. They drive crazy especially the motorcycles and if you hit them even it was their fault, you will pay all. They signal right then turn left!!! They brake from a full speed to a full stop in the middle of the highway without pulling off the road. I am entirely adjusted to this now, so it doesn't bother me really.

j. They are expert at stealth theft.

k. Lack of sincerity or feeling like you are just a dollar bill. If you have a party, they will leave as soon as they can put all the food in their pockets to take home.

l. Heat and humidity, although this doesn't bother me any more because I am adjusted, I use airconditioning such as while driving, and I find places to exercise in aircoin and/or on the mountain early morning or evening.


Knowing the local language puts you on the inside track. You are now seen less as a dollar bill and more as a friend. Especially if you smile and joke a lot.

The cheapest most horrible beer in my opinion. Almost no hops, barley, all sugar.

We have better beaches in Florida, and 100s of kilometers compared to the 10km strip in Boracay.

Bank secrecy is already gone. The IRS has an agreement and can see all they want. FATCA compliance is coming.

===============

What I love here is that I can always find someone to joke with and talk to. Filipinos love to make new friends and they love to eat. So offer food and you have new friends.

Filipinos are not overly serious. They are always ignoring any problem and smiling, finding something fun to do even as simple as singing or joking.

The people here are natural. They eat the entire fish, including the skin, head, and eyeball. They eat the baby chicken in the egg including the feathers. People here always telling me don't eat fast food too often and eat more vegetables and fresh fish. The fruit is awesome and fresh.

I have many friends. I probably exceeded the Dunbar number limit.

I am not totally ignored here in public as I would be in the USA. Here I am special (even if it comes with certain downsides such as being a walking dollar bill). It isn't only money, I am special because I have a long nose, am thought to be a more stable providers, etc..

Yes the bebots. But also the boys too for pickup basketball games, clowning around.

I love to see children every where.

I love to see people who are not all the same, at different financial levels. I love to see people taking a shower at the side of the road, etc.

I don't get bored with the eye candy. In the USA, I feel like everything is a xerox stripmall and the people are all hiding inside their cars, homes, and facades in public.

So it is really about the people.

Check out the Isle of Man.

• No capital gains tax
• No wealth tax
• Dividends and interest payments are treated as income
• Income tax is 10% on the first GBP10,500 of taxable income and 20% on the remainder

Most of the wealthier people here have houses made from poured cement. The walls are a solid 6 inches thick. (Or more.) Those kinds of houses don't go down easily.

But then, a typhoon of the magnitude that hit recently destroyed everything. The main cities, the center, Metro Manila, Makati ... those were hardly affected.


The current mayor of Davao is an old classmate of my dad. That mayor makes sure there is no petty crime in his city. Even the Ampatuans (the ones responsible for the massacre in Maguindanao) don't have any power in Davao, despite the vicinity.

How the crime situation is handled in Davao is up for debate. The criminals simply do not exist. Good place for you guys with long noses and fair skin color (because, yes, you look like dollars.)
Have you tried Baguio? One bitcoiner is staying there. I've been there several times, but never stayed longer than a month. It's considered a Filipino vacation place to Filipinos who do not live there, because of the colder weather.

It's also about 4 hours away from the 3rd tallest mountain in the country, Mt. Pulag. If you like mountain climbing.


You'll have to import the stuff you really want. I get my stuff from Amazon, or other places, wait for a relative to come home, the box rides with them. Or you can have it shipped here for $40 a "balikbayan" box. Fill up the box first. My brother does that all the time for all his imported books and toys.

Also, there are specialized shops that sell high-end inverters. Those don't break, those are used by the local cell phone companies for their cell-sites. I managed to get one. What you want to be looking for are pure-sine wave inverters. Not the cheap square wave ones.


The bigger cities would have the better internets. PLDT and Globe have high speed links. Expensive though.


That's prohibited within Metro Manila. Outside, or in the provinces, it happens.

And when they try to, they still look like they can't think.


A few have come up with all-hops beer. Look for it. Both San Miguel and Asia Brewery have it. One of them is called "Manila Beer" I think. I don't drink as much as I used to anymore, so I'm actually out of the loop. My dad has a friend who used to work as a brew master, tasting beer all day.


I'm not talking about Boracay. I'm talking about the other 7000 islands. Palawan. Coron. Batangas. Anilao. Then there are hundreds even I do not know about, they are just there, literally virgin beaches.

The last time I went to Boracay (and I live in this country okay) was more than 20 years ago. I've been to at least 200 hundred other places. I can't remember them all.

Boracay was probably the best beach, 20 years ago. I can't say the same now, about the beach itself. I'm not talking about the night life though, as that one has changed dramatically since.


Somehow, the ones who want to hide their money find a way to do it. Now, we're in the bitcoin forum, so ... ... ...


Yup! More than anything, it's the people.

Good to have a discussion with someone over here, so we can compare our perspectives, which mostly seem to agree. Just a few clarifications I want to make.


As far as I know, the solid concrete was not destroyed any where by the wind. Only the water surge destroyed some concrete in the low lying areas along the coastline. If you build your house out of solid concrete with a concrete roof, then put 3/4 marine plywood over your windows during a typhoon (as we do in New Orleans where I was born), and build on high ground away from any potential flash flooding, then your house will be always fine.

Mindanao rarely gets a typhoon, although we got Pablo last year which was a "once in 20 years" event.


I met members of the Davao Death Squad back before it became international and national news item. They used to openly carry their pistols and they explained to me that the local barangay officials will report on who is doing petty crime, especially drug users and pushers. Then those offenders will be warned 3 times over a period of weeks or months. Many end up in other cities around Mindanao if they can't reform themselves, because they will be killed if they stay in Davao past the 3rd warning if they have not reformed.

Recently a lady instructor from our gym was mugged and murdered in an alleyway by several drug addicts in downtown Davao. The offenders were caught, killed, and stacked back at the alleyway with a note, "criminals come to Davao to die".

However, Manila and the international press are now hounding Mayor Duturte and so now I no longer see dead boys along the curb. And by watching TV Patrol, it appears to me that big money from Manila is starting to move into Davao and he is beginning to lose control. I always expected this would happen eventually. Nevertheless for the time being Davao is one of the safest, yet we are paying for this with police and Task Force Davao (Army) checkpoints every where. I get tired of seeing machine guns and being watched always. I smile and I understand the necessity, but it feels to me as though this will backfire on those of us who want to survive the coming global hunt for capital (net worth tax and 71% tax recently announced by the IMF).

I am seriously thinking I need to move to some place more sparsely populated.

Duturte believes in a police state. I appreciate him and I understand him, but I don't think he understands how this can all go awry. And how the powers-that-be can misuse his police apparatus.


I lived there for a while. It is very up and down terrain and the flat portions of the small valley are already taken. I couldn't even find a functioning hot tub in that cold climate! The track oval was muddy.

Typical sad state of infrastructure in Philippines. It isn't important to the locals, thus it isn't a priority.

Also Baguio is becoming very polluted with vehicle exhaust fumes since it is an upland valley.

There are similar upland valleys (two I know of) here around Davao, but they are too far to day-trip and development, internet, electricity, theft remain a problem. Also the land rights are very problemmatic. Every foreigner I've know to build in the upland loses their investment to locals. Rich locals can sometimes manage it.


The local suppliers sell the China versions which were ripped off from Morningstar. I buy the originals:

http://windsun.com

But my balikbayan box still hasn't arrived after 2+ months. Also the balikbayan boxes are $55 - $75. I can't find $40 to Mindanao from Bellingham, WA where my mom is.

Readers note that although you are not charged import duties on things you hide in these boxes, this is illegal and your items could disappear or be taxed. And if you do it the legal way and declare and pay import taxes, then typically the taxes are 50 - 200% of the value of the item. This is why most stuff is sourced from China.


I had Globe in Cebu right next to the Insular Waterfront Hotel and it sucked. Was often offline.

I had Globe and Sky Cable internet (two lines) in Bago Aplaya, Davao over the years, and the lines were often offline. The Globe started to improve in 2012.

Recently I obtained Globe in the skyline area of Davao, and so far it is excellent.

I hear PLDT has the best quality because they own the only line going directly to western countries. Globe bounces around through Singapore and Japan, thus high latency and often down.

But PLDT is extremely difficult to get. You go on a waiting list.


The fires were burning on Roxas Blvd (Manila Bay) when I arrived in 1990. I guess Mayor Lim outlawed that.

It happens every where in the rest of the country and every afternoon.

Enjoy your clothes smelling like a barbacue daily. Although I am exaggerating and typically it isn't a serious problem for me. Yet some of my foreigner friends complain a lot.


Hahaha.  ;D

It doesn't matter how many times you give an instruction to a typical (not upper class) filipino in the provinces, they will still do it the way they grew up doing it.

For example, tell them not to stand on the toilet and not to wear their slippers in the bathroom ("CR" for comfort room), and you will pull your hair out because they will continue doing it. For filipinos, the bathroom door is always closed and it is supposed to be dirty and smell bad.


Yeah I noticed those special local brews in the SM mall grocery store recently.

I don't drink any more also, so haven't tried them.

But then no longer cheap. Still cheaper than the imported brews.


I agree that Palawan and other far flung places are interesting and beautiful. But the travel is arduous just for some sand and sun. We have beautiful scenery in the western world and the infrastructure and travel is much more pleasant. I am reminded of the title of a book about traveling to Philippines for the girls, A Long Way to Go for A Date (http://www.henrymakow.com/uw/).

Also Philippines will in the coming decades be overrun by Chinese and Koreans, thus it will no longer be as friendly to European and American men. These north east asians like exclusivity. Thus we white guys will not be welcomed in the establishments and resorts.

The allure of Boracay (and also Angeles City and Puerto Galera) is the nightlife. For me, the bar scene gets boring after a about a week or two. I long past my wild youthful days in Olongapo. If I go, I just enjoy taking in the scenery. These bar workers are the ladies who were not pretty enough to attract a rich husband. They look nice in bikinis in black lighting, but don't open your eyes in the morning and view their faces.  :o

There are a few attractive ones, but then their attitudes are the reason they are not happily married.

Basic problem around these areas, is the people have been corrupted by money, even if they don't work in the bar.

You need to go far from where any foreigners are (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x18f1u7_members-corrupting-bebots-turning-them-into-evil-lying-useless-scammers-by-sending-money_lifestyle), if you want to find the original Philippines.


I posted about this (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=360763.msg4006138#msg4006138) today.


I am happy to see we agree on this.

Watching the videos is more instructive than looking at the photos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_apH0ZDnXK0

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x183pbl_czarina-struts-her-stuff-beautiful-verified-single-pinays-asian-dating-philippines-bebotsonly_lifestyle

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x176yxm_bebotsonly-making-friends-with-beautiful-pinays-marie-and-francesca-pt-1-angeles-city-philippines_lifestyle

You will clearly see that the girls are not in tune with you, the typical westerner. They aren't even able to answer his questions. The only thing they are interested in is singing, dancing, shopping, eating, and joking. Watch and see for yourself.

You can see a difference in the one studying to be an architect:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16zcvk_angelica-s-intro-meet-real-beautiful-cutest-single-pinay-girls-angeles-city-philippines-bebotsonly_lifestyle

This video is a very accurate explanation of filipino culture:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x170a4z_filipino-cultural-terms-part-2-tampo-explained-beautiful-pretty-single-pinay-babe-bebotsonly_lifestyle

When a filipina is angry at you, she won't talk to you. She will not tell you why. She will not argue with you. She will not talk it out. She will avoid you. You can't force her to talk. You might as well just go do something else and just give up, because you can't get her to talk. Forget it. Learn the filipino concept of "move on".

And for example, if you make a big complaint to the receptionists in the hotel, all the workers in the hotel will ignore you. The louder and more persistent you are, the more they will ignore you.

It can reach the point where no one is around when you are around. They will actively go hide when you come around.

Even if your complaint was justified.

Be very, very sweet and soft with your words when you complain. You are walking on egg shell emotions.

Bring a filipino friend to do the complaining. That will work, unless your friend does not agree with you. I'll comment on the other points tomorrow, I'm on a tablet evenings.

I found it more efficient to be very sensitive to their emotions when I want to make a "suggestion". This applies even when making a suggestion to your gf. Don't think you can command her item after item. You will have to prioritize your "suggestions" and dole them out infrequently.

The lower class filipinos are all about their emotions and feelings. This is a roller coaster ride from a foreigner perspective. The filipinos don't view time, consistency, efficiency, planning, etc.. the way we do. There is a saying in visayan, "depende sa hangin" it means "go with the direction of the wind".

I am curious to hear your other feedback even if you disagree with me. Some of my comments didn't reflect the fact that I do see diversity of attitudes and people here. And I am already so adjusted that none of it bothers me any more. But for the first time foreigner, I think they will pull their hair out with frustration if they get involved in anything serious (investment or relationship). Those who are not bothered by anything, do best here.

I once asked a filipino how they can tolerate their neighbor blasting the music so loud through all hours of the day and night, and they couldn't explain it to me. They just don't have the same sense of ownership of space, consistency, etc..

This comes from native cultures I think, where no one owned any space. It was all shared and come what may every day.

Edit: I forgot to mention that most public rest rooms (CRs) don't have toilet paper, not even in the malls. The method here is to use your hand and the water in the toilet bowl to clean your anus. You rub your hand enough times to remove the smell even there is often no soap. Most foreigners will panic when they need release their bowl movement. I am adjusted to this already, so it means I am not a westerner any more.

Edit#2: Went jogging tonight at 11pm and remembered have to carry a stick to protect against all the stray dogs roaming.

Mumbai being the financial centre is one the most expensive cities in India.

I spend a few months in Hong Kong, Thailand, Vietnam, and Philippines throughout the year.  I love the fact you can travel around so easily and cheaply.  For about a year I rented a place in Jomtien Beach (15 minutes south of Pattaya, which is 1.5 hours south of Bangkok)..   It was only $200/month and 10 minute walk to the beach.  I've also rented a 6 bedroom home in Saigon in Phu My Hung (District 7)... which is like little Korea in Saigon... that was $1500/month.  This area is very nice and not as crowded as other parts of Saigon/HCMC.  You can get brand new 2 bed room condos for like $1k/month.   It's only 20 minutes south of the District 1 HCMC where all the action is.  I tend to live in quieter places, but near the main downtown areas.  I liked Philippines, but only enough to visit.   The inefficiency that exist there just drove me crazy.  The nature is amazing,and the people are fun and friendly.  Food is bad.  Almost the opposite of that is Hong Kong where things are smart and fast, but it's a very expensive place to live compared to surrounding countries.  Good place if you're ambitious - like maybe starting a bitcoin business.

It's really nice to move around and if you're able to do it, I highly recommend it, at least for awhile.  I'd definitely do that before committing to any particular country because you really need to live there for a bit to see if it fits you.