Bitcoin Forum

Will I win?

It's fair to assume that 90% of them are small traders averaging less than 1 BTC at any given time. Then there is the rest with more and the top 3%-4% with significant amounts trading at any given time. As a trader you can't make very much money with small trades and I was one of the people with significant amounts at any given time. The bottom 90% alone were probably worth 1500 to 2000 BTC and the top 10% worth several times that. BitJohn has also indicated that about 100 BTC/ month was your revenue stream from fees. It's easy to see there is a magnitude of order more on deposit than brought in by fees.

Lmao.  It's only 63 BTC you idiot.  

I'm sure you wouldn't be complaining if BTC was climbing to 2k at the moment when you might have sold them at their low.

Sounds like you should not be anywhere near crypto currencies at the moment.  You might want to wait until the only way to buy goods is by using Bitcoins before considering owning any.  You're not built for it.

ITT: People pretend to be BTC Ballers and act like 63 BTC is chump change.

lol.

Your BTC will hit $1.2k so please shut up.

OP is claiming to be a part of the elite with his measly 63 BTC.  That's funny.

I wasn't hinting at all about how many I own.  I think anyone that has been holding coins for 2+ years will find this chump change though.

I've been holding since oct 2012, I bought in at 14- all the way up too 100!

Your portfolio has probably dropped more than $75,000 just today and I bet you'll sleep like a baby.

I have no idea why idiots like the OP even get into crypto currencies.

What will you do if it happens Bitcoin fall of 50% for example?

OP, you're a loooooooooser!

Give they guy a break, his site is not easy to maintain nor it it easy to put up with us cryptocoiners.

my advise to you is:

SHUT THE FUCK UP, you have a choice to use his site, you can choose not to as well. NOBODY is forcing you to use cryptsy.

I'd be excited to if i was with the IRS and it wouldnt be for finding out about cryptsy.

Some were saying that Paul Vernon aka BigVern doesn't visit the forums. I know for a fact that BigVern does indeed look at these boards as I received a PM in response to my thread Cryptsy - Complaint Filed with the Florida Attorney General located here - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361514.

The answer is no, there is nothing you can do to make this right and that's not how this works anyway. The damage and losses you caused by "borrowing the deposits" is done. You must really think people are stupid and can't clearly see what you have done. Before the new update BitJohn had said numerous times that Cryptsy had somewhere just over 10,000 users. Sounds about right.

It's fair to assume that 90% of them are small traders averaging less than 1 BTC at any given time. Then there is the rest with more and the top 3%-4% with significant amounts trading at any given time. As a trader you can't make very much money with small trades and I was one of the people with significant amounts at any given time. The bottom 90% alone were probably worth 1500 to 2000 BTC and the top 10% worth several times that. BitJohn has also indicated that about 100 BTC/ month was your revenue stream from fees. It's easy to see there is a magnitude of order more on deposit than brought in by fees.

What Cryptsy did was borrow from the customers deposits before the peak of $1200 per BTC and got caught off guard by a rapidly rising market with everybody wanting their BTC NOW and you didn't have them to give.

I do believe you intended to roll out the new update but not as soon as you did. The new roll out and it's subsequent comedy of "errors" were nothing more than a cover while you scrambled to find the funds to put out the fires. I also believe in your panic you further borrowed at the peak, sold high and are now buying back at a 30% discount and returning deposits slowly. That explains why about 45 BTC worth of my coins have been deposited manually into my accounts over the course of the past week.

At the peak, my 63 BTC was worth about $75,000. Today as you are returning it slowly it is worth about $50,000 and falling. You have cost me at least $25,000 by tying up my funds in this botched borrow. That's just me and I can assure people the cumulative damage runs well into the millions.

Now here's the part you need to pay attention to. Early on all I asked for was some detailed explanation from you on exactly what is going on. Nothing more and you remained silent and now are aware that I did indeed file a complaint with the Florida AG. A 140 character cryptic message on Twitter doesn't cut it.

Maybe I am wrong. Maybe just because it walks like a duck, talks like duck and has the DNA of a duck, it really isn't a duck. If I were you, I would break my oath of silence, come here and explain exactly what happened. You might also consider making my deposits right according to the BTC peak as you know exactly who I am.

If you choose to further ignore the call for an explanation from you, as you did earlier which resulted in the aforementioned complaint, I will start organizing Cryptsy customers into a class and will file a complaint with the FTC. I will also on their behalf come after Cryptsy and Cryptsy's investors for the damages caused by at best, incompetence and more than likely nefarious. Will I win? Who knows. But I do know that getting complaints to the AG and the FTC as well getting your investors sued is a fast track to nowhere really fast. I suggest you create a user modded thread and start explaining.

What Cryptsy did was borrow from the customers deposits before the peak of $1200 per BTC and got caught off guard by a rapidly rising market with everybody wanting their BTC NOW and you didn't have them to give.

Some people want wild west profits with FDIC bank risk.

Cryptsy has been known to have problems for a long time but some people who apparently can't tolerate the risk of something going wrong with their Crytpsy account at an inconvenient time still can't resist the urge to trade and keep funds there. I'm guessing that's because Cryptsy generally has better prices, tighter spreads, and more volume on most alts than other exchanges do. Assume Crypsty (and every other crypto service) is going to break when you need it most (peak volume times particularly) if you want to be safe. But you don't want to be safe; you want to be rich.

Some were saying that Paul Vernon aka BigVern doesn't visit the forums. I know for a fact that BigVern does indeed look at these boards as I received a PM in response to my thread Cryptsy - Complaint Filed with the Florida Attorney General located here - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361514.

The answer is no, there is nothing you can do to make this right and that's not how this works anyway. The damage and losses you caused by "borrowing the deposits" is done. You must really think people are stupid and can't clearly see what you have done. Before the new update BitJohn had said numerous times that Cryptsy had somewhere just over 10,000 users. Sounds about right.

It's fair to assume that 90% of them are small traders averaging less than 1 BTC at any given time. Then there is the rest with more and the top 3%-4% with significant amounts trading at any given time. As a trader you can't make very much money with small trades and I was one of the people with significant amounts at any given time. The bottom 90% alone were probably worth 1500 to 2000 BTC and the top 10% worth several times that. BitJohn has also indicated that about 100 BTC/ month was your revenue stream from fees. It's easy to see there is a magnitude of order more on deposit than brought in by fees.

What Cryptsy did was borrow from the customers deposits before the peak of $1200 per BTC and got caught off guard by a rapidly rising market with everybody wanting their BTC NOW and you didn't have them to give.

I do believe you intended to roll out the new update but not as soon as you did. The new roll out and it's subsequent comedy of "errors" were nothing more than a cover while you scrambled to find the funds to put out the fires. I also believe in your panic you further borrowed at the peak, sold high and are now buying back at a 30% discount and returning deposits slowly. That explains why about 45 BTC worth of my coins have been deposited manually into my accounts over the course of the past week.

At the peak, my 63 BTC was worth about $75,000. Today as you are returning it slowly it is worth about $50,000 and falling. You have cost me at least $25,000 by tying up my funds in this botched borrow. That's just me and I can assure people the cumulative damage runs well into the millions.

Now here's the part you need to pay attention to. Early on all I asked for was some detailed explanation from you on exactly what is going on. Nothing more and you remained silent and now are aware that I did indeed file a complaint with the Florida AG. A 140 character cryptic message on Twitter doesn't cut it.

Maybe I am wrong. Maybe just because it walks like a duck, talks like duck and has the DNA of a duck, it really isn't a duck. If I were you, I would break my oath of silence, come here and explain exactly what happened. You might also consider making my deposits right according to the BTC peak as you know exactly who I am.

If you choose to further ignore the call for an explanation from you, as you did earlier which resulted in the aforementioned complaint, I will start organizing Cryptsy customers into a class and will file a complaint with the FTC. I will also on their behalf come after Cryptsy and Cryptsy's investors for the damages caused by at best, incompetence and more than likely nefarious. Will I win? Who knows. But I do know that getting complaints to the AG and the FTC as well getting your investors sued is a fast track to nowhere really fast. I suggest you create a user modded thread and start explaining.

No.

Cryptsy isn't AN option... it is the ONLY option.

And the volatility of the market means that all time/every time (every second) is when you "need it the most"

Cryptsy doesn't just 'break' during peak volume times, it always fucks up

 

Now I haven't always been the biggest Cryptsy fan, the bugs and glitches at times were enough to make my blood boil.  When you stop and think about it though, anyone heavily involved in the alt-scene should be on their knees thanking Big Vern.  The alt-scene simply would not be what it is today without Cryptsy (for better or for worse).

The only people who have room to complain about "Cryptsy costing them money" are newbies who just jumped into the scene with this recent rise.  If you are a GPU miner and/or got into the alt-scene last spring, Cryptsy almost certainly made you WAY more coin than it ever cost you.

I owe Cryptsy for allowing me to vastly improve my financial situation and life over the past 6 months with just 7 7950s.  I am forever grateful for Cryptsy.

So thanks for ruining it for the rest of us OP just because you are pissy about 63 BTC that'll eventually go right back up in value again anyway.

It just trades alts, which are all imaginary tokens under the law, like Second Life money and Star Wars Galaxy money. It's not regulated by anyone, it's just "tokens" being bartered back and forth.

I'm puzzled here. Cryptsy doesn't trade back and forth into fiat.

It just trades alts, which are all imaginary tokens under the law, like Second Life money and Star Wars Galaxy money. It's not regulated by anyone, it's just "tokens" being bartered back and forth. No dollars are ever quoted on the trades, all trades are just in BTC, LTC and XPM.

Therefore don't see how you can legally claim that you "lost $75,000" when you can't trade BTC for dollars on Cryptsy nor on any exchange regulated by the American govt. You mentioned in the other thread that the Florida regulators "eyes popped at the amount of dollars being traded" - but you were misleading them, weren't you, because no dollars are traded on Cryptsy at all.

You are not covered by any regulation involving finance, because imaginary tokens including cryptos are not recognised as money. You may perhaps be covered by regulation involving sale of goods. But those types of regs simply rap a provider on the knuckles if their customer service is poor or delayed - usually you have to prove their service delay is extraordinarily bad - that you waited months for your goods, and gave them plenty of time to rectify their problem and it still didn't happen. Going to the regulator for sale of goods errors is supposed to be the last resort when you have exhausted all avenues yourself.

As for Cryptsy - their problems all started when they moved from their old trading platform to the new one. The new one had bugs and a lag and it was unfortunate coincidence that they launched it just when loads of new people were trying to join. but I expect they'll sort it.

I personally prefer vircurex - but they are no good for those trading the smaller alts, they only deal with the older established alts.

P.S. People getting involved in cryptos need to stop referencing everything in terms of dollars. It's not about dollars. You haven't lost any dollars. At most you've lost BTC which is a fun imaginary currency, and in any case, you got your fun crypto tokens back didn't you?

I am not sure that is accurate: http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html (http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html)

The definition of a money transmitter does not differentiate between real currencies and convertible virtual currencies. Accepting and transmitting anything of value that substitutes for currency makes a person a money transmitter under the regulations implementing the BSA.12 FinCEN has reviewed different activities involving virtual currency and has made determinations regarding the appropriate regulatory treatment of administrators and exchangers under three scenarios: brokers and dealers of e-currencies and e-precious metals; centralized convertible virtual currencies; and de-centralized convertible virtual currencies.

None of the cryptos are convertible to fiat in the USA though, are they. Therefore they are not convertible currencies. Cryptsy has never quoted any dollars in any of their trades - they weren't treating them as convertible to fiat at all. You were simply barterring one alt for another. You'd have a devil of a job proving XPM, sexcoin and others are convertible.

From Cryptsy's own TOS:

12. BSA / FinCEN

Cryptsy is registered with the BSA as an MSB (Money Services Business). Cryptsy may be required to file details of account activity to this organization from time to time.

From Cryptsy's own TOS:

12. BSA / FinCEN

Cryptsy is registered with the BSA as an MSB (Money Services Business). Cryptsy may be required to file details of account activity to this organization from time to time.

Go die in a hole. No one here likes you.

Really?  Are they moving money?  No.

Is that legally clear in US courts at this point? I am not sure what case precedent exists.

Definition of real currency vs. convertible virtual currency:

FinCEN defines “real” currency as (i) a jurisdiction’s coin and paper money that is (ii) designated as legal tender for that jurisdiction and (iii) is customarily used and accepted as a medium of exchange in the jurisdiction.  A “virtual” currency is “a medium of exchange that operates like a currency in some environments, but does not have all the attributes of real currency.” “Convertible” virtual currency is a virtual currency that has “an equivalent value in real currency, or acts as a substitute for real currency.” Virtual currencies and convertible virtual currencies are not legal tender in any jurisdiction.

Some were saying that Paul Vernon aka BigVern doesn't visit the forums. I know for a fact that BigVern does indeed look at these boards as I received a PM in response to my thread Cryptsy - Complaint Filed with the Florida Attorney General located here - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361514.

The answer is no, there is nothing you can do to make this right and that's not how this works anyway. The damage and losses you caused by "borrowing the deposits" is done. You must really think people are stupid and can't clearly see what you have done. Before the new update BitJohn had said numerous times that Cryptsy had somewhere just over 10,000 users. Sounds about right.

It's fair to assume that 90% of them are small traders averaging less than 1 BTC at any given time. Then there is the rest with more and the top 3%-4% with significant amounts trading at any given time. As a trader you can't make very much money with small trades and I was one of the people with significant amounts at any given time. The bottom 90% alone were probably worth 1500 to 2000 BTC and the top 10% worth several times that. BitJohn has also indicated that about 100 BTC/ month was your revenue stream from fees. It's easy to see there is a magnitude of order more on deposit than brought in by fees.

What Cryptsy did was borrow from the customers deposits before the peak of $1200 per BTC and got caught off guard by a rapidly rising market with everybody wanting their BTC NOW and you didn't have them to give.

I do believe you intended to roll out the new update but not as soon as you did. The new roll out and it's subsequent comedy of "errors" were nothing more than a cover while you scrambled to find the funds to put out the fires. I also believe in your panic you further borrowed at the peak, sold high and are now buying back at a 30% discount and returning deposits slowly. That explains why about 45 BTC worth of my coins have been deposited manually into my accounts over the course of the past week.

At the peak, my 63 BTC was worth about $75,000. Today as you are returning it slowly it is worth about $50,000 and falling. You have cost me at least $25,000 by tying up my funds in this botched borrow. That's just me and I can assure people the cumulative damage runs well into the millions.

Now here's the part you need to pay attention to. Early on all I asked for was some detailed explanation from you on exactly what is going on. Nothing more and you remained silent and now are aware that I did indeed file a complaint with the Florida AG. A 140 character cryptic message on Twitter doesn't cut it.

Maybe I am wrong. Maybe just because it walks like a duck, talks like duck and has the DNA of a duck, it really isn't a duck. If I were you, I would break my oath of silence, come here and explain exactly what happened. You might also consider making my deposits right according to the BTC peak as you know exactly who I am.

If you choose to further ignore the call for an explanation from you, as you did earlier which resulted in the aforementioned complaint, I will start organizing Cryptsy customers into a class and will file a complaint with the FTC. I will also on their behalf come after Cryptsy and Cryptsy's investors for the damages caused by at best, incompetence and more than likely nefarious. Will I win? Who knows. But I do know that getting complaints to the AG and the FTC as well getting your investors sued is a fast track to nowhere really fast. I suggest you create a user modded thread and start explaining.

But were the alts being used as a "substitute for real currency", or were they just goods that had a value assigned. eg you can trade a car for money, but the car is not a substitute for money, it's a good that has a value assigned.

How about reading terms before using any service?

Without prejudice to any other terms of this Agreement, relating to the limitation of liability and provision of indemnities, the following clauses shall apply to our Electronic Services.

    j. System errors

We shall have no liability to you for damage which you may suffer as a result of transmission errors, technical faults, malfunctions, illegal intervention in network equipment, network overloads, malicious blocking of access by third parties, internet malfunctions, interruptions or other deficiencies on the part of internet service providers. You acknowledge that access to Electronic Services may be limited or unavailable due to such system errors, and that we reserve the right upon notice to suspend access to Electronic Services for this reason.

   

it seems a little silly that...op took the anonymous out of bitcoin trade.. whats the taxes due on 63 BTC? and other previous undeclared earnings..

Seems funny to walk into a place... and show them a whole bunch of your undeclared earnings... your trade history.. etc.. anyone with a comp can sign into/onto cryptsy and anyone calculate 1 BTC = $1000, but showing them your trade history... makes the whole thing silly.

I'd be excited to if i was with the IRS and it wouldnt be for finding out about cryptsy.

uh I sure as heck hope that people declare their BTC earnings. There's nothing anonymous about the bitcoin ledger and address/IP tracking.

uh I sure as heck hope that people declare their BTC earnings. There's nothing anonymous about the bitcoin ledger and address/IP tracking.

Once the dust settles from the current crash companies like Cryptsy will probably get a little breathing room as volumes decrease. Of course it may get worse in the short term as people panic and try to get into fiat as fast as possible.

Just hold all your coins till mcxNOW comes back online with v3!

The bad news for Tradehill is that they are based out of San Francisco. Being based out of the USA is a huge liability that no serious investor is willing to take. If the US Government decides they want to freeze Tradehill, it is as simple as phone call and quick orders from the court to the bank.

Lmao.  It's only 63 BTC you idiot. 

I'm sure you wouldn't be complaining if BTC was climbing to 2k at the moment when you might have sold them at their low.

Sounds like you should not be anywhere near crypto currencies at the moment.  You might want to wait until the only way to buy goods is by using Bitcoins before considering owning any.  You're not built for it.

WTF... What do you mean ONLY 63 BTC...?

If you've got BTC to just throw away like that where 63 BTC doesn't mean shit to you, please feel free to throw some BTC away in this direction...

Lmao.  It's only 63 BTC you idiot. 

is here a staff from crypsy on bitcointalk ? their support seems not good (or there is none)  ::)

Personally I find it scary and dumb for ANYONE to leave any type of funds on cryptsy right now, it's simply going downhill and won't be much longer until they're out of business...leaving many folks fucked.  Get out of there while you still can, I know I did awhile back.