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[alyssa85]

It just trades alts, which are all imaginary tokens under the law, like Second Life money and Star Wars Galaxy money. It's not regulated by anyone, it's just "tokens" being bartered back and forth.

I am not sure that is accurate: http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html

The definition of a money transmitter does not differentiate between real currencies and convertible virtual currencies. Accepting and transmitting anything of value that substitutes for currency makes a person a money transmitter under the regulations implementing the BSA.12 FinCEN has reviewed different activities involving virtual currency and has made determinations regarding the appropriate regulatory treatment of administrators and exchangers under three scenarios: brokers and dealers of e-currencies and e-precious metals; centralized convertible virtual currencies; and de-centralized convertible virtual currencies.

None of the cryptos are convertible to fiat in the USA though, are they. Therefore they are not convertible currencies. Cryptsy has never quoted any dollars in any of their trades - they weren't treating them as convertible to fiat at all. You were simply barterring one alt for another. You'd have a devil of a job proving XPM, sexcoin and others are convertible.

From Cryptsy's own TOS:

12. BSA / FinCEN

Cryptsy is registered with the BSA as an MSB (Money Services Business). Cryptsy may be required to file details of account activity to this organization from time to time.

Ok that's interesting. Wonder why they did that - probably because of the problems MtGox had when they registered under the wrong thing - or perhaps because they were intending to offer conversion to dollars in the future?

[Kryptox]

It just trades alts, which are all imaginary tokens under the law, like Second Life money and Star Wars Galaxy money. It's not regulated by anyone, it's just "tokens" being bartered back and forth.

I am not sure that is accurate: http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html

The definition of a money transmitter does not differentiate between real currencies and convertible virtual currencies. Accepting and transmitting anything of value that substitutes for currency makes a person a money transmitter under the regulations implementing the BSA.12 FinCEN has reviewed different activities involving virtual currency and has made determinations regarding the appropriate regulatory treatment of administrators and exchangers under three scenarios: brokers and dealers of e-currencies and e-precious metals; centralized convertible virtual currencies; and de-centralized convertible virtual currencies.

None of the cryptos are convertible to fiat in the USA though, are they. Therefore they are not convertible currencies. Cryptsy has never quoted any dollars in any of their trades - they weren't treating them as convertible to fiat at all. You were simply barterring one alt for another. You'd have a devil of a job proving XPM, sexcoin and others are convertible.

From Cryptsy's own TOS:

12. BSA / FinCEN

Cryptsy is registered with the BSA as an MSB (Money Services Business). Cryptsy may be required to file details of account activity to this organization from time to time.

Really?  Are they moving money?  No.

This is them preparing for opening USD markets which they have not completed yet.

[tinybike]

Go die in a hole. No one here likes you.

Blame the victim much?  He says the crooks at Cryptsy cheated him out of his money, so he reported them.  What other recourse does he have?  Should he just sit there and take it, because otherwise he risks upsetting your precious gravy train?  For fuck's sake, if he's been defrauded, what he's doing is absolutely fair.  Way too many people on this board are taking the Cryptsy's side even if the OP was actually cheated.

Let me tell you: if you think that, you are what's going to make this house of cards come tumbling down.  Because there's a limit to the amount of abuse people will put up with, and eventually, it gets reported, and then the show's over.

[hypostatization]

Really?  Are they moving money?  No.

Is that legally clear in US courts at this point? I am not sure what case precedent exists.

Definition of real currency vs. convertible virtual currency:

FinCEN defines “real” currency as (i) a jurisdiction’s coin and paper money that is (ii) designated as legal tender for that jurisdiction and (iii) is customarily used and accepted as a medium of exchange in the jurisdiction.  A “virtual” currency is “a medium of exchange that operates like a currency in some environments, but does not have all the attributes of real currency.” “Convertible” virtual currency is a virtual currency that has “an equivalent value in real currency, or acts as a substitute for real currency.” Virtual currencies and convertible virtual currencies are not legal tender in any jurisdiction.

[mackcowanii]

You're a fucking piece of shit and I sincerely hope something bad happens to you.

[MicroGuy]

[alyssa85]

Really?  Are they moving money?  No.

Is that legally clear in US courts at this point? I am not sure what case precedent exists.

Definition of real currency vs. convertible virtual currency:

FinCEN defines “real” currency as (i) a jurisdiction’s coin and paper money that is (ii) designated as legal tender for that jurisdiction and (iii) is customarily used and accepted as a medium of exchange in the jurisdiction.  A “virtual” currency is “a medium of exchange that operates like a currency in some environments, but does not have all the attributes of real currency.” “Convertible” virtual currency is a virtual currency that has “an equivalent value in real currency, or acts as a substitute for real currency.” Virtual currencies and convertible virtual currencies are not legal tender in any jurisdiction.

But were the alts being used as a "substitute for real currency", or were they just goods that had a value assigned. eg you can trade a car for money, but the car is not a substitute for money, it's a good that has a value assigned.  

With egold, the entire point of the business was moving dollars into egold and then out of them. Cryptsy is just bartering virtual tokens back and forth, no dollars involved at all. Second Life Linden dollars are traded on LindeX for dollars, but I think they are treated as a good, like a car or an ipad, not as a currency. So you are using your US dollars to buy a good rather than a substitute for real money.  If anyone knows more about their status, please post.

[WillBit]

Some were saying that Paul Vernon aka BigVern doesn't visit the forums. I know for a fact that BigVern does indeed look at these boards as I received a PM in response to my thread Cryptsy - Complaint Filed with the Florida Attorney General located here - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361514.

The answer is no, there is nothing you can do to make this right and that's not how this works anyway. The damage and losses you caused by "borrowing the deposits" is done. You must really think people are stupid and can't clearly see what you have done. Before the new update BitJohn had said numerous times that Cryptsy had somewhere just over 10,000 users. Sounds about right.

It's fair to assume that 90% of them are small traders averaging less than 1 BTC at any given time. Then there is the rest with more and the top 3%-4% with significant amounts trading at any given time. As a trader you can't make very much money with small trades and I was one of the people with significant amounts at any given time. The bottom 90% alone were probably worth 1500 to 2000 BTC and the top 10% worth several times that. BitJohn has also indicated that about 100 BTC/ month was your revenue stream from fees. It's easy to see there is a magnitude of order more on deposit than brought in by fees.

What Cryptsy did was borrow from the customers deposits before the peak of $1200 per BTC and got caught off guard by a rapidly rising market with everybody wanting their BTC NOW and you didn't have them to give.

I do believe you intended to roll out the new update but not as soon as you did. The new roll out and it's subsequent comedy of "errors" were nothing more than a cover while you scrambled to find the funds to put out the fires. I also believe in your panic you further borrowed at the peak, sold high and are now buying back at a 30% discount and returning deposits slowly. That explains why about 45 BTC worth of my coins have been deposited manually into my accounts over the course of the past week.

At the peak, my 63 BTC was worth about $75,000. Today as you are returning it slowly it is worth about $50,000 and falling. You have cost me at least $25,000 by tying up my funds in this botched borrow. That's just me and I can assure people the cumulative damage runs well into the millions.

Now here's the part you need to pay attention to. Early on all I asked for was some detailed explanation from you on exactly what is going on. Nothing more and you remained silent and now are aware that I did indeed file a complaint with the Florida AG. A 140 character cryptic message on Twitter doesn't cut it.

Maybe I am wrong. Maybe just because it walks like a duck, talks like duck and has the DNA of a duck, it really isn't a duck. If I were you, I would break my oath of silence, come here and explain exactly what happened. You might also consider making my deposits right according to the BTC peak as you know exactly who I am.

If you choose to further ignore the call for an explanation from you, as you did earlier which resulted in the aforementioned complaint, I will start organizing Cryptsy customers into a class and will file a complaint with the FTC. I will also on their behalf come after Cryptsy and Cryptsy's investors for the damages caused by at best, incompetence and more than likely nefarious. Will I win? Who knows. But I do know that getting complaints to the AG and the FTC as well getting your investors sued is a fast track to nowhere really fast. I suggest you create a user modded thread and start explaining.

OP is a narc-ass bitch!

[hypostatization]

But were the alts being used as a "substitute for real currency", or were they just goods that had a value assigned. eg you can trade a car for money, but the car is not a substitute for money, it's a good that has a value assigned.

Cryptsy also handles Bitcoin. I wonder what impact that could have in court. It will be interesting to see how this all develops.

[Mylon]

The amount of hate in this thread is just sad... I'm gonna go back and hit the ignore button a couple of times. (update: so a dozen people addded)

To OP, hope Cryptsy answers but ain't looking that way. Also do you happen to have a source for the funds lending claim?

If it's true what they did, they deserve to get crushed.

To the kind souls in this thread, awesome job trying to keep up the positive attitude.

To the rest... Does your mother know you like to spread so much hate on the internet, and what would she say about it? Enjoy it while it lasts, 5 years from now the NSA will put a stop to it.

[Malooka]

How about reading terms before using any service?

Without prejudice to any other terms of this Agreement, relating to the limitation of liability and provision of indemnities, the following clauses shall apply to our Electronic Services.

    j. System errors

We shall have no liability to you for damage which you may suffer as a result of transmission errors, technical faults, malfunctions, illegal intervention in network equipment, network overloads, malicious blocking of access by third parties, internet malfunctions, interruptions or other deficiencies on the part of internet service providers. You acknowledge that access to Electronic Services may be limited or unavailable due to such system errors, and that we reserve the right upon notice to suspend access to Electronic Services for this reason.

   

Since Cryptsy states the terms above, it goes both ways, right?

e.g. the guy who mistakenly was able to withdraw 60 BTC was under no obligation to return it since Cryptsy clearly states they shall have no liability for all the above - the user shouldn't either.

[HPWolf]

All the people that think Cryptsy is great, give it time.

I too was very happy with Cryptsy as they were trading coins others never had and everything was going great.
Then i lost a very small amount of QRK that i deposited into my account. I opened a support ticket for and waited, three weeks later ..... nothing so i decided to remove all my coins and move on.

That's where the fun started, says i have withdrawn funds, nothing has shown up in my wallets and now my account is in a negative balance and i cant do anything.
After waiting for support for 3 weeks for some QRK, i can just assume i wont hear anything from anybody for a long time, services like these are not needed and flaming somebody cause he is trying to make it public is also wrong.

I have only lost a little bit, but that little bit is all i had and its really depressing when you put all your effort in to try and make some coin and some stupid exchange just gobbles it up and ignores you.

My sympathy goes out to the people that have lost allot more then me and i do hope Cryptsy does sort out there problems and return our coins even after waiting 3 weeks and it does not look that promising.
I am opening another ticket today to see what can be done about removing the rest of my coins, hopefully there will be some sort of response.

[achillez]

it seems a little silly that...op took the anonymous out of bitcoin trade.. whats the taxes due on 63 BTC? and other previous undeclared earnings..

Seems funny to walk into a place... and show them a whole bunch of your undeclared earnings... your trade history.. etc.. anyone with a comp can sign into/onto cryptsy and anyone calculate 1 BTC = $1000, but showing them your trade history... makes the whole thing silly.

I'd be excited to if i was with the IRS and it wouldnt be for finding out about cryptsy.

uh I sure as heck hope that people declare their BTC earnings. There's nothing anonymous about the bitcoin ledger and address/IP tracking.

[this1dude]

it seems a little silly that...op took the anonymous out of bitcoin trade.. whats the taxes due on 63 BTC? and other previous undeclared earnings..

Seems funny to walk into a place... and show them a whole bunch of your undeclared earnings... your trade history.. etc.. anyone with a comp can sign into/onto cryptsy and anyone calculate 1 BTC = $1000, but showing them your trade history... makes the whole thing silly.

I'd be excited to if i was with the IRS and it wouldnt be for finding out about cryptsy.

uh I sure as heck hope that people declare their BTC earnings. There's nothing anonymous about the bitcoin ledger and address/IP tracking.

SBC mixing service, when it gets implemented looks promising in this department

[BrewCrewFan]

it seems a little silly that...op took the anonymous out of bitcoin trade.. whats the taxes due on 63 BTC? and other previous undeclared earnings..

Seems funny to walk into a place... and show them a whole bunch of your undeclared earnings... your trade history.. etc.. anyone with a comp can sign into/onto cryptsy and anyone calculate 1 BTC = $1000, but showing them your trade history... makes the whole thing silly.

I'd be excited to if i was with the IRS and it wouldnt be for finding out about cryptsy.

uh I sure as heck hope that people declare their BTC earnings. There's nothing anonymous about the bitcoin ledger and address/IP tracking.

No I hope that the OP claims his/her earnings on the taxes.

[Mad Scientist]

Some people here are protecting Cyptsy like the US Gov't protects the Federal Reserve!

Getting this ironed out in as a transparent way as possible will only strengthen the ENTIRE Crypto Community.

[rapidfire187]

Don't ripple the waters You might create a tidal wave that will hit only you. K.

[jerrybusey]

Once the dust settles from the current crash companies like Cryptsy will probably get a little breathing room as volumes decrease. Of course it may get worse in the short term as people panic and try to get into fiat as fast as possible.

[Slingshot]

Once the dust settles from the current crash companies like Cryptsy will probably get a little breathing room as volumes decrease. Of course it may get worse in the short term as people panic and try to get into fiat as fast as possible.

 First my sympathies towards everyone that believes they have been victimized.

 Second my sympathies towards Cryptsy whom most here believe are ethically trying, but obviously overwhelmed at the very least.

 

But...:

 I don't trust the motivations of someone (the OP) that is also clamoring for another Exchange, an extremely shady one, to reopen, in another thread here at bitcointalk.org !

 Does the OP have a position in the profits by way of profit shares or whatever, at that other Exchange still closed



Caveat emptor - let the buyer beware!

[WillBit]

OP is a snitch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1JJkMD1hE4&noredirect=1