Bitcoin Forum

from the 80's movie, Wall Street; gordan gekkos infamous "greed is good" speech;

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xex9rz_gordon-gekko-greed-is-good-full-spe_shortfilms

thoughts?

I watched the whole thing but I can't talk now, I have the strangest urge to do a bit of forex trading.

Bulldoze Wall Street. Replace it with crack houses. They'd be less detrimental to society.

Greed is, and we need to deal with it. Society should be stablished upong fundations that uses greed to increase prosperity. Trying to create a society that either tries to ignore that greed is a human characteristic or tries to make greed like the only moral ideal will be a failure.

And one have to keep in mind that everybody is or has the potential to be greedy, no matter if they work as politicians, businessman or wage workers. Even voters are (stupidly) greedy.

I don't agree. Is greed a desirable trait? Should one strive to be greedy or should one strive to not be greedy? The answer is clear when you aren't blinded by greed. Society should be established upon foundations that uses respect and love to increase prosperity. We already live in a world where capitalism drives us to treat our neighbors as virtual enemies, people will do anything to get ahead in life. When greed and competition are championed over kindness and group work it doesn't create a happy prosperous society full of love. It creates a cold harsh reality where there's an asshole on every corner and no one cares about anyone else. A man dying on the side of the street can be ignored as if he didn't exist. Some people are so rich they earn in one day what others make in their entire lives. Main stream news is never straight forward, there's always a slant on it because they'll all trying to push different agendas, everyone is in competition. We even suppress some technological break throughs simply because their existence would be bad for existing business. The health and growth of a corporation is given precedence over the health and growth of humanity.

Maybe "greed" is the wrong word.  Humans are by their very nature, self-interested.  This is a fact and must be treated as such.  Instead of trying to change human nature, and failing, learn how to use self-interest for the maximum benefit of society.  Greed is a personal issue which will hurt yourself more than it hurts others as long as you are not using coercion to satisfy it.  I believe that being generous is beneficial for humans, and therefore it is still in your self-interest.

+1

Don't mix greed with the instinct the survive. Greed is a gluttonous desire to possess or consume more than one needs, despite the consequences.

Seems rather subjective.  Do I need a TV?  I own one, so does that make me greedy?  What about a computer?

This is relevant here, Social cooperation and human interaction: http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/tgif/social-cooperation/


+1

Competition is good, not greed.

It's possible that they do make you more greedy in the sense that both devices can be vehicles for advertising. You do make a valid point though, it's not necessarily greedy to own or consume anything beyond the bare minimum needed to stay alive. Is it greedy to own a musical instrument? How about keeping a pet or a house plant?

Greed is good.

Rational greed that is. There's nothing wrong with striving to gain because it only builds society in the end. In order to gain valueone must provide something that is desired and thus valuable.

Greed is only irrational when it comes at the expense of others which is generally limited to looting, fraud and so forth. Otherwise, you are only making the pie of wealth greater for everyone.

It's called government-enabled corporatism. Not capitalism.

All of you who are trying to establish what is excessive and what is not and how much one should own. You're morons. You dictate law by whims and not true crime.

Easy there, big boy.  People aren't morons simply because they disagree with you.

And what is necessary even for basic survival varies from individual to individual.  I understand the concept of what most people think "greed" is, and it is a valid and useful concept, but it is very subjective.  In the United States it is not considered greedy to own multiple cars, a computer for every member of the family, and a TV in every room.  In other countries this is unthinkable wealth.  Does that make the average US resident greedy?  There is no objective scale for greed.  This is why I distinguish between self-interest, which is a healthy aspect of human nature and can lead to prosperity for all, and greed which can be self-destructive behavior which I believe tends to make people unhappy.

I think "desire" is a better word, without desire the life ends

And "sympathy" limit the negative side of desire

Owning a TV or PC is not necessarily greedy when the living standards of your society make it basically mandatory to have a computer for research and other tasks. A TV is an important tool for communication and entertainment (which is very important). Now if you had a TV in every room you might be getting a little bit greedy. The resources and labor that went into that could have been used for people who actually need a TV, or perhaps if there wasn't such a large demand for things people don't actually need we wouldn't need to tear down forests and destroy the environment at such a rapid pace. Greed always has a consequence, that is why it's "greedy".

I'm not saying you shouldn't strive to be successful and live a prosperous life. I'm saying you should have some consideration for other people at the same time. Is it really ok for extremely minute percentages of the population to own huge chunks of all global assets when the consequence is large spread poverty and artificial scarcity? They die with all their assets and then pass it on to their children. A few select humans with so much wealth they could move entire 3rd world nations into 1st world nations. But they choose greed instead. Seeing no problem with their elitism and the consequences of it, they cause MASSIVE amounts of people to live shitty lives merely so the lives of a few people can be ridiculously luxurious. If that's your idea of a good society I ask you to rethink it a little bit.

Can you explain to us how you get to this judgements? When Im in a situation how can I know if me or someone else is being greedy? Whats the rule?

Its obviously a trick question, because in reality there is no rule.

Didn't your mother ever tell you "stop being greedy and share with the other kids"? You will know when you are being greedy. It's just something you will know and sense. And don't don't tell me you don't understand.

I disagree.  TV's are completely unimportant and I think having even one is greedy.  There are far better ways to entertain yourself: read a book, play a board game, work out, play online games or take up a hobby.  You don't need TV for communication either, as you can get all your news from the internet more efficiently and with a broader diversity of views and opinions.  The resources from your TV would be better spent building computers for people who don't have them and need one for entertainment and communication. 

Isnt this the base of authoritarism? What I feel is right, is right, and violence is justified to impose it on others.

What makes your whims so objective? Who is really to define who needs and deserves what? Why are your desires so relevant when it comes to anothers property and resources?

+1, well put.

Exactly.

Go back and read the exchange between Bitfreak and I, and then come read the above post of mine again with a tone of irony.  :)

I think this is the first time I've ever seen Charlie Sheen sober (or at least look sober).  :P

greed is good. depending on how you achieve or do it.