Bitcoin Forum

This poll is a general survey of when the community believes the majority of the existing customer's batch will ship.

KnC's Network Protection Statement put shipping in March of 2014, will they pull it off?

I believe the majority of machines will be in customer's hands early to mid April, with the subsequent batches 3-4 weeks out (First public batch Mid May, Second public batch mid June)

Nice! Thanks for this. Happy to see April being the highest  :D :D

Given KnC hasn't finished their RTL (AFAIK)  I'm doubtful for April.

looks more and more they never finish Neptune product. Instead customers still not refunded will get cloud hashing instead of hardware.
KnC wants to become bitcoin service provider, wallets and stuff.

I don't believe they ever moved beyond hyping 20nm.  It is my sincere belief that the Neptune was just a ruse to get us to fund their massive mining operation and we'll only be offered 6 months of 3THs hashing via the Jupiter farm.  And we won't get to have that until a end of Q2, June 30th.

They will not ship Neptune until much later (Q3-Q4) or never.

LOL!

Copy/Paste:


april?! that wishful thinkin imo. i dont think they taped-out yet and from tape-out to production you can assume roughly 60 days. so lets say they tape-out in the coming weeks and need 60 days till the chips arrive. that means the chips arrive in mid may. then also assume that chips doenst mean everything is ready to deliver, you got to bring that thing to work somehow.
that leaves us to a delivered neptune in june, imo.

I hear ya man. I don't think they're going to announce all that tape out fab out stuff though. If I'm remembering correctly, and we compare what happened in their first product launch, they were pretty tight lipped, except for leaks by Bitcoinorama. They said they'd ship in late September through October and they did, only late by like 2 weeks. IMO I think we should expect the same, although the Jupiter farm and accompanying announcement makes me a bit nervous. They fucking slammed us with difficulty with that damn farm too! Looks like its complete now though with recent Swedish press and difficulty slowing at the moment.

exactly, they had a timeframe with the Jupiters that lasted till 30th september and they delivered pretty much right at the end of that time frame in the first weeks of october. so if history is going to repeat itself then we wont see any neptunes before early july.

i personally expect them to ship in june but even if they do it in may and with 4000GH/s it wont be profitable anymore.

I think we wil at best see virtual machines at 3th in april and then if we do take them we lose our right  to a physical machine
ie you can virtual mine now on our farm or wait for the physical machine later or refund will be the choices

just can't see how they can do both with the numbers involved for even batch one..ie mine for free then we send you the
machine..they will simply give you a choice to virtual mine or get a physical miner later

but then again no worries if you cancel the 20mm miner will just eventually end up on their gh farm ;)

Searing

I think they planned to make a Neptune...I also think the chip 1/2 of knc the chip maker they are in partnership with just around xmas came up to them
and said.."guys there is no way we can make a 20mm chip from design to a product and ship it before we are outstripped by difficulty....not enough time"

thus their current 'changing of horses in midstream"

this is the most logical reason I can think of to simply change your entire company from a mnfg to a hosting farm

what concerns me is what they may know about other farms big ones coming on line from private $$$ I mean I kinda

expected something like this in the fall/winter of 2014

but looks to me something got them into a panic to do this NOW....could be as simple as getting 20mm out was impossible

on the timeline they wanted and/or something they know and we don't

my 2c worth

Searing

Who is CA?

I'm assuming he means Canada. Must mean customer appreciation

That doesn't make any sense to me. Canada batch orders?

Customer Appreciation?

I am over in Sweden every few months and whilst I am not a customer and never will be I am disgusted by KNC's treatment of hundreds of people. I have talked to a couple of contacts and the guys behind this scam are known to them with home addresses and so on, I will need to take a look into it in more detail because I assume that at some point people will need to take action against them and any information that can be confirmed should prove useful.

KNC are not the only ones doing it of course, but as a fellow Scandinavian (not Swedish though) I feel almost ashamed of their level of corruption and greed.

I will start to get as much information together as possible and will do so on other companies thaqt act in the same way.

J

 ???

What exactly are you disgusted about? They delivered what they promised, in fact, as you so like to do in your business, for most they over-delivered from what they promised and they were closer than anyone else to being on time. As for Neptune, the jury is still out on that, but at least they are paying out refunds to those who get cold feet. You make it sound like they are running off with everyones money.

They taped out last month, they are developing an expensive process, cutting edge, alot like their 28nm ASIC was, in terms development and delivery timescales was. And just in case they miss their own internal deadline they are going to offer those who are still hanging in there another way out, to convert to cloud hashing at the same output rate as the hardware.

Doesn't sound like a company thats treating their customers disgustingly. Sounds like a company that is pioneering, pushing the boundaries and isn't 100% sure of the timescales to get to where they want to get to so is trying to cover all the bases to make sure they don't rip off their customers.

Sure people have a right to be dissapointed that its not going according to their own private plan/agenda, but they can get out of it if they want.

I am not really sure how you get to your conclusions, so feel free to ignore my comment(s) which are aimed at people who are concerned (or disgusted) that KNC (and others) are populating their data warehouses with product that is of course not supposed to go to customers who paid months ago. Offering "cloud hashing" to people who are still waiting for product should not be possible unless they have delivered all outstanding orders so they have miners left over for this activity? Or.....?

J

I'm not happy with Datorhall (KnCMiner's massive mining datacentre) because I don't like having to compete with an ASIC manufacture. They can get machines at cost. I'd prefer that they stuck to the business of selling miners.

However, let's be clear: the Neptune product does not exist yet. Datorhall is running Jupiters (their previous product). They are not mining with our Neptunes.

What I would have preferred is for KnCMiner to have continued selling their successful Jupiter product, rather than building their incredibly powerful "Death Star" DC.

Looking at the KnC Datorhall video invoked mixed emotions for me: awe, and hopelessness ("why am I even trying to compete with that").

Well I'm sure you guys have seen KnC completed "tape out". Sounds like IMI might be right with June delivery, assuming chip arrival takes 60 days after tape out. Is there any evidence for chip delivery after tape out taking 60 freaking days?! Thanks.

it is very unlikely I will wait till June my 555gh jupiter is getting .07btc a day take 555 x  7 (be optimistic say they over deliver)  you get 3885gh.

.07/day x 7 = .49 per day on a 10.2k 1st in line (1st 10 or so) customer appreciation order very first offered batch

ok pop it up 25% difficulty and assume KNC GH hashing farm is also coming online (actually diff rise may be closer to 30% for next 3 months imho)

some virual mining at more the 3TH offered say april first for this batch MAY keep some people in the que


but truthfully it may be likely all them 20mm machines will just go into KNC's GH farm ..in that what would be cost
effective for them hosting/elec and cooling and otherwise not so much for the rest of us

hope i'm wrong still hanging in there but my fingernails are slipping off the ledge as we speak

Searing

It is time to get a refund, even then things look ugly. Many miners have requested refunds in BTC and they are taking longer than 2 months in BTC, in dollar the wait time is much longer.

In my opinion things overall at KNC look really ugly, not quite as ugly as BFL, but getting there, and would not be surprised if in a few months they are the new BFL.

Remember the KNC that we knew in 2013 is not the same KNC I am talking about today.

Just a few observations:
1. They promised not to mine over 5% of the customers hash rate, they mine more than all of their customers together, they were one of the main factors in making the equipment they sell obsolete. That promised was broken.
2. They offered refunds for Neptune Batchs 0,1 and 2 (not 3), they are not honoring those refunds in good faith, having to wait several month for something that could be reasonable be done in 24 hours is not good faith, European law considers the deadline for refunds 30 days. Here is the link:
http://ec.europa.eu/justice/consumer-marketing/rights-contracts/distance/index_en.htm
so this is another broken promise, the law says a refund should take up to 30 days, and KNC is taking over 3 months in some cases, as it can be seen on the forum.
3. They offered, new hardware ready to go with the exception of the power supply. super jupiter customers got partial kits, they had to build their own cases, their own mounting hardware, and the hardware was used not new. another broken promise.
4. The offered plan B in which customers could start hashing on their data center early June, currently no one is hashing on their data center, and early June is over. another broken promise.
5. Late on delivery and fail to admit it. Batches 0,1 were promised to be delivered on Q1/Q2 - 1 month, and  Batch 2 was offered on Q1/Q2, in other words batches 0 and 1 were going to be delivered a month earlier than batch 2 but delivery for batch 2 was Q1/Q2. Well for batches 0,1 they are clearly late, the end of May is over. the reason they did this was batch 0 costs $10000, batch 1 $13000, and then batch 2 $10000, people in batch 1 paid an extra $3000 to have it a month earlier of course when batch 1 was sold they did not say batch 2 was going to cost $3000 less. Well they are late, and this is another promise broken.

So right here I have just listed 5 promised they broke, I am sure some of you guys can mention some I have missed.

Unethical behavior, not illegal, but something a decent company does not do to their customers:
1. They have began to ban users on their own forums.
2. They have began to delete some posts especially the ones that talk about refunds, or super jupiters.
3.  They silently eliminated all  refunds from new purchases, Titans, and Neptune batch 3 do not have the options for refunds.
4. The terms and agreements page silently changed, they removed the original page no longer found on the knc forum, but found on other pages, and replaced by a different terms and agreements page, the warranty was 1 year, now it silently changed to 3 months, so if you were on the 1 year warranty, now they will refer you to the 3 month warranty since the original page is missing.
5. They promised not to compete in mining against its customers because they said it was not good for their customers, and now that is exactly what they do.
6. Lack of transparency, like there is absolutely no information in regards the refund queue, even though it has been asked my many to know their positions in the queue to monitor the process in refunds, but KNC will not provide this information.
7. Lack of transparency in regards the progress of Neptune.
 

So at this point with so many broken promises, so much unethical behavior, and absolutely no signs of them correcting themselves, how possible on earth could you trust them, at this point trust is completely lost.

All of the good references about KNC are from last year, even if someone were to ask me about KNC last year I would say they were ok, but all the bad about KNC has been building up slowly since this year.

They could very well be planning to burn their customers in regards refunds, after all they did burn and really burned big time the super jupiter customers, I would be highly surprised if you can find more than a few happy super jupiter customers.

Super jupiter was an scam to clean their data center of old hardware in preparation for the Neptunes, so they offloaded that junk onto their customers, once customers realized the junk they were getting KNC denied all refunds.

For all of the above reasons, they can not be trusted, trust has nothing to do with the hardware, it has to do weather they will honor on good faith what they say, once trust is broken it is very difficult to repair that, since they are purposely scamming their customers.

Anyone can make a mistake, but with KNC the problem could be greed, there is nothing in the world forcing them to lie to their customers.

I have a bad feeling this is another BFL, mtgox, we will have to organize, they have the money, and I am sure we could be refunded in a timely manner if they wanted to.

If after all the warnings I gave you about KNC which are facts which many can prove to be correct, you still trust KNC you are taking a huge risk, huge could be an understatement of the risk you are taking.

I gave warnings about mtgox in 2012, the warnings I gave about gox were much lighter than what happened in 2014, thats because they were showing bad signs by unethical behavior, but hard to predict accurately what was going to happen 2 years latter.

Intersango, was delaying btc refunds and we all know how that turned out to be.

Now I am givings warnings about KNC, I have no clue how bad things can get, but as of now they look really ugly.
My personal recommendation is to try to get a refund, but at present time even that is risky since refunds are mostly stuck in a queue that does not move.

Just for clarity to my above post now that it is june...i refunded..*but did get a titan* before knc went off the rails and the tax man ruling IRS in the usa..(my timing was bad)
so no refund stuck with  a titan but out with the neptune

only thing i have now is the sp30 spondoolies coming in sept (prob should have just bought coin)

so it goes

Searing

Well, it will be June, but those who simply refunded and/or bought BTC will be the likely winners, unless it is a 6th machine plus another 6th in Aug (I doubt it).

Could not be happier that I refunded my 2 x KFC Fuckets, Bought 3- S2's, 6 - S1's, and 2 SP10's AND Still have 25% of my original BTC. Still waiting on my BFL refund been 25 days so 20 more to go ;(

I don't think they will ship till end of july given their previous delays.
Yes you have a picture of a box on their site, but no proof of an actual working prototype.
knc is done

goto -> kncthread

the first neptunes have been delivered already

ok, didn't expect that.

Link please (http://Link please)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.0;topicseen (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.0;topicseen)

just read through the pages