Bitcoin Forum

I am losing all hope of ever buying Bitcoin cheap again :(

Who else is starting to feel like $500 BTC is never gonna happen????

lol you newbs and your blatant sentiment signals...

right as MtGox makes a new weekly high breaking the $830 resistance :D

I have an order to buy 1000 at $349.  I'm sure that Bitcoin will carry on fluctuating and at some point I will get my 1000 Bitcoin.  What's your hurry?

I think We might see $500 again but it won't last long, when ? I can't say may also never happen.

There is a more affordable alternative you know, like litecoin.

I think bitcoin is just as affordable.   This is what decimal points are for!

My money is stuck in Gox..... Gox Sux

The hurry is that there are only so many Bitcoins and there are a lot more people wanting to buy them every day.

Panic setting in, hard to breath.... joking of course

They were $455 on December 17th.  You should have pulled the trigger then.

There are idiots sitting here today saying "i wish I bought in at $500" when a week before they were thinking "damn I wish I bought in at $800".

Wake the fuck up. Either you BELIEVE IN BITCOIN or you DON'T. I believe and I was buying all I could under $600.

You have had plenty of time and warning to buy in, don't get left out and regret your actions.

That +1. There was an amazing buying opportunity just a week ago. And you are losing all hope now? No problem dude, wait one year, you will be able to buy cheap at 2k per coin after a rally to 10k.

Yes i also recall some well known chart "experts" putting in buy orders at $100-$300 just a week ago and laughing at those who bought  :D

I buyed some @+1000 and I'm still happy, 'cos i belive in btc :)

I don't believe there is a well known chart expert on these boards worth listening to. The ones crying about $200 coins most likely are the ones that got burned on the way down from $1200 and they all chasing invisible dreams of regaining their position by buying in sub $200. Stupid. Do they not see how much support there was for $200? $300? There was support all the way to $600 because intelligent people had their buy orders in place.

I'm still long term bullish, I've just cleared out all remaining fiat in my exchange and sent to my cold wallet. Next recharge at the end of the month.

mBTC are still cheap to buy.

That's the spirit :)
You will be laughing once it goes $10k+

I believe, I believe, I believe.

finally someone has a point. No trolling intended, +1

I remember sitting watch $5 for weeks on end, ready to pull the trigger just as soon is went back down under $3. Instead bitcoinica imploded taking my spare fiat with it.

Zhoutonged! Then the price rallied to ~$9 which was obviously far too expensive! ;)

Fast forward to today and it all feels suspiciously similar. Yet here i sit, just as afraid to buy at $900 as I was at $9 so many months ago...

So I take the chicken way out and just hodl.

+∞

you newbs make me sick:
1. you are way too greedy
2. you don't believe in bitcoin

Be happy to have fiat at all to buy these precious bitcoins because many die hard believers just struggle to make their ends meet and can afford only to invest 100 euros to bitcoin. My friend would have seriously taken loan from bank exactly a year ago just to buy bitcoins but no bank gave him loan because he doesn't have a job or anything, he's living in his parents' cellar.

He should get a job... Don't do anything and want money to speculate?
Grow up, get your own money and become rich.

Poor people complaining about beeing poor and don't do anything about it -> make me sick!

Not always possible to get a job. I'm basically unemployable because I never finished a higher education, and all the unskilled jobs are taken by immigrants. If not for my old man being just barely smart enough to see the potential here, I would not have had any meaningful amount of fiat to invest.

I do believe in btc, I just want a good buy in price. I doubt anyone would be here if they didn't believe in this, lighten up. I'm waiting until next month, this rise is all China and things are way to uncertain over there right now.
Anyone who thinks this rise is Americans who learned about btc from their relatives over Christmas, wake the fuck up and check the volume charts.

Forget Litecoin!  If you want something truly affordable, I would be willing to sell you my entire sand collection, consisting of over 100,000 grains, for the incredibly low price of just $1,000.  That's less than 1 cent each!  I'll even throw in free shipping!

Just because something has a low price doesn't make it a worthwhile investment.

For many thousands the only difference between you and someone with a diploma is student loan debt, don't kick yourself too hard for missing that boat.

Being poor in America is a choice.  A choice to goof off in school.  A choice to play video games instead of reading books.  A choice to watch reality TV instead of C-Span or CNBC.  A choice to do as little as possible at work instead of working for a promotion.  A choice to socialize on Facebook instead of LinkedIn.  A choice to spend money on cigarettes, beer, and entertainment instead of investing for the future.

In many cases the rich are rich because they are not lazy.

You forgot to mention the choice to cop out and be a parasitic employee instead of getting off one's lazy ass and starting one's own business.

It went down to $500 already a few times, we are looking at the build up for the next bubble now.
After the next bubble you will be able to buy plenty for $500, just wait

Yes, he is quite a slacker. During the time bitcoin was 4.5$ each I was working my ass off while also getting a diploma :D, so I pretty much share your view on this. But then again, you can't judge a book by its cover, I believe there are people who differ from you just by not being in the right place at the right time. is this their fault too?

I was lucky to discover bitcoin exactly at the time when I was working and had a lot of fiat just lying around and guess what - the friend who introduced me bitcoin is a total slacker living with his parents and just wanted to buy drugs with bitcoins except he didn't have any money so he told me about this great technology.

Then there are those of us unfortunate enough to be born into a country we hate. I see absolutely nothing good in my country. The climate is terrible, the economy is horrid, the politicians are communists and the people are psychopaths. All I ever wanted for the past ten years is out. This does nothing to incentivise taking an education or trying very hard at work. Then along came bitcoin, the only honest money in the world at this point, and a way off the frozen asshole of the world.

Where do you live?

Denmark.

I fail to see how Bitcoin will solve your problems.

By giving enough ROI to travel until I find somewhere worth living? This is an expensive process.

Wow. From the way you described it, I thought you came from a former member of Soviet Union.

I'd always thought of Denmark as one of the more civilized countries... liberal social mores, strong social safety network, Nordic Model democracy, etc.

I guess I was wrong.

But you will still be unemployable because you have no skills. Moving has solved nothing.
You need a trade/skill so employers want you. That goes for anywhere in the world, not just Denmark.

You were not wrong. Denmark is absolutly ok.
Ibian is one of the butthurt immigrants unwilling to do something. He should go back, where he came from.

It's getting there. Slowly but surely, it's obvious to anyone who has studied a bit of history.

Countries like to pretend. It's like selfies on facebook, only on a national scale.

Not quite. I don't have the proper paperwork for most jobs, and the rest are taken by immigrants. That's only a problem in countries that focus excessively on paper credentials and immigration of unskilled labor. The climate is as big a problem as both of those as well.

And if bitcoin really takes off then I won't have to work again. Nobody here will.

These damn immigrants. I'm happy that Estonia is a cold, poor and racist enough country to keep away these parasites. I would move even farther to the north where is even more cold so that people from warm countries wouldn't want to slack around where I live. You can't just come here and start living in a TV box because you would freeze to death. I believe that's also the reason why southern Europe has so big immigration problem.

Why would you not want to work? Working, and having your own business especially, is great.

Great for the fortunate few who enjoy it. But there is a difference between a hobby you get paid for and a chore you get paid for.

To hear everyone else talk, Denmark is a utopia that America should be trying to achieve...

That were the times where people were crying that it is the end of bitcoin, don´t buy, panic sell because it will go down to cents and so on  ::)

So I also listened to these masters and did not buy. At least I holded. Sometimes it is better to make your own decisions....

If BTC will go down to $500 again then the same things will happen all over again. "This time it is different" "It is the end" "It is over"...

Get involved in working in an area that you enjoy. And if you can't, first work anywhere you can find, while also keeping an interest in the field you like. And then you'll surely find a job in that specific field.

I think one needs to find a purpose before one can be happy. No matter how many millions a bitcoin is worth.

+1

Working gives you a purpose in life. Not everyone hates their job.

I guess some people just have a slave mentality. It's weird. For me the question is why would you want to. Better to do what you want, and then it's a hobby even if you get paid for it. But even for people who like to work, surely it would still be better to be able to decide that you don't need this job. Most people don't have even that kind of luxury.

I believe in being productive. That's conducive to feeling worthwhile. A work ethic for its own sake does not.

As is pretty obvious, I live in Toronto, Ontario. When I checked the weather this morning, it was -23c with a windchill of -35c.

More than half the population of Toronto consists of immigrants. As a Canadian-born white Engish-as-first-language speaker, I am a member of the minority.

Most homeless people and panhandlers seem to be Canadian-born.

I smell xenophobia.

This I can agree with. It's just that not all work is productive and not all productivity falls under work.

So you are even worse. You just don't want to work... If bitcoin really takes off, it would be the most successfull redistribution of wealth.
Last question: Are you an immigrant? Or just a lazy boy? No school finished? Just played video games and smoked pot?

Wow, you are definitely a square peg Ibian...   http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/22/denmark-happiest-country_n_4070761.html

I've had periods of my life where I didn't have to work. It awarded me the freedom to pursue things that really interested me that did turn into 'work' again.

If the need to acquire money is taken away then that does coax you into reflecting on a lot of things and should hopefully steer you in a constructive direction.

If I had several hundred thousand bitcoins now I'd be figuring out how to use them to make the world a better place. That would be the most productive use of anyone's time.

Who the fuck are you to judge someone? Not everyone is a conformist who can find their place and feel happy in their own country. You're the one being the lazy boy here by thinking only in black and white. Either someone is an immigrant, or lazy and smoking pot all day if they're not happy with their life and the society they live in... yeah right, if only it was as simple as that. Dumb shit.

Are you an immigrant too? Like to smoke pot and don't have a job?

Btw:
Have you read his posts?
He doesn't have the "paperwork".

Either he is an immigrant -> why did he choose denmark?
Or he is just a lazy guy -> his own fault

I don't blame him for doing nothing, I blame him for doing nothing and complain about it.

Then I would suggest you travel where the immigrants come from and apply for work there. Payback time!  ::)


Ok. Unqualified and generally unwilling to work (= lazy).

Noted. Thanks.


Rico

Not sure about that.  The last major crash (November 2013) didn't get as low as the peak before the previous crash (April 2013).  The next major correction might not get below $1200.

"A lot of people aspire to be productive so they can become happier, but happiness has been shown to lead to productivity, not the other way around."

Yeah, the poor are poor because they're lazy and stupid and people are bad because they are in the 'Axis of Evil'...

Open your mind and travel a little bit more in the world, many very poor people in the third world countries work harder than you coud ever imagine.

Just remember that you are just lucky to be born into a wealthy country/family.

The great number of the wealthy were born wealthy. There are a few examples of people who were born in poverty who became rich, but this represents a small minority.

+1

There is a difference between "having to go to work" and "not having to go to work".
Some people who have shitloads of cash want a simple yet nice/fun job which has no stress.
Having your own company might seem nice but can be very stressful and probably won't be fun for everyone and especially if your not good at it.

imo luxury is "not having to work"

Hey what if we stop judging other people on this thread?

As for the OP, my suggestion is, if you are doing this long term, the best time to buy is always the same value = NOW().

It is true that holding is a great strategy. I have been fortunate to double my Bitcoin with opportunistic trades. I want more Bitcoin and I am thinking of praying at the Whale temple to get them.

Look, I bought in at $10.80. When I saw it going up exactly a year ago, I decided to double my investment and buy more. It was in the high 13's. I wanted to wait until it dropped to $13.25 so that where I put my buy order in at. I think it dropped to $13.30 or so, so my buy never got filled. I waited, and it went to $14, then $15... finally a few days later, I panic bought at $17.25, worried that I would miss out.

Had I just bought at $13.30, I would have 80 more coins now.

Had I continued to wait till it dropped to the low 13's again, I'd still be waiting.

Lesson is, if you believe in bitcoin, buy NOW. Do NOT try to time the market or you will get screwed.

So true. I believe we will see 500-600 again in the next couple months. I believe it will dip down before it shoots back up around July. This may happen as we get closer to the 31st and more Chinese decide to get out last minute.

No way am I panic buying unless it starts to break 1200.

thanks, we need people like you, pushing more when breaking ATHs. Better buy later :)

I wonder if on the 22nd April 2013 the mood was similar...

I used to live in Toronto.  Then I moved to Australia. 36c today  :D

Without the impatience of average traders, manipulators would need to work a lot harder to get their riches :)

past performance is only a guarantee for future bullshitting

Man, I like to work. I guess I am too stupid to understand the concept of Living on Easy Street.

Seriously speaking, though, work should not be your only purpose in life. I've observed that people who are truly happy have several different purposes in life. Not too many so as to lose focus, but certainly more than one. They are always filling their time doing things that they consider are worthwhile to them.

The best investors know that the best predictor of future behavior is relevant past behavior.  The trend is your friend.

That said, anyone who thinks they can accurately predict future prices by looking at past prices alone is kidding themselves.  External events like government actions and media distortions move the prices.

The bottom line is that growing numbers of people around the world see the promise of Bitcoin and are hopping aboard.  While there will be ups and downs due to external events, I see no sign that this overall trend is changing. 

In my opinion this mainly applies for market that are long in existence.
My reasoning is that in the traditional markets there is a relatively fixed population of traders/bots using a lot of the same technical indicators and thus making the market react quickly to those indicators.
In essence making a self fulfilling prophecy based on past performance due to those reacting on indicators.

Bitcoin has only been in existence for a short while so there is not much "past" data to go on. Also there is a lot going on around bitcoin like legislation, etc.
Maybe some new indicators will be adopted based on the volatile start of bitcoin making traditional indicators unreliable.

I've read that traders use 5 to 10 years of historic data to test their indicators on. Bitcoin simply doesn't have enough historical data, and is a starting market, thus making any sound prediction of the future based on the past a hard call.



I agree since this is what's happening at the moment so chance of a trend turning is small.

Didn't you know that in bitcoin world, one year is equivalent of 10+ years of regular markets? Look at volatility, we go through all the regular events 10 times faster. We already had three huge crashes after enormous 100-fold rallies, something that took wallstreet about 100 years. So I'd say there is enough history. And no, bitcoin never broke the previous ATH and I doubt it will do it now. The previous ones were $0.5 ATH, $1.1 ATH, $32 ATH, $266 ATH, now $1242 - once we are well past that mark, we won't see it again.

+1 Pretty much my view also.

And as some blabla to the OP, I am from Finland probably quite same as denmark but even worse climate, national hobby is having a liter of vodka and beating your wife and kids on weekends (not forgetting to throw them out in the snow) But thats only the stereotype if you want to see it that way, I like it in the summer time when there is a chance of maybe going outside in a t-shirt and sun just stays up and everything.
I only have a high school degree myself and estonians and polish people are coming to do most of the crap works with low pay so pretty much the same situation. But I thought it over, managed to land myself a job in the harbour (have also been changing tyres, scaffolding and some electricity stuff) so now I work the best weather 7-9 months and travel the rest somewhere where its warm. ATM Cambodia, 28,5C at 1:29AM.
I've had some downturns also, hurt myself at job, sporting etc. only my left hand is without a surgery or any metal in it. And I'm 24years old, have payments for my apartment at home and all the stuff people consider "normal". With BTC I was quite late, heard something about it in late 2011 but found it too difficult to buy and forgot about it until this october or so when I read of the norwegian guy buying an apartment with BTC. Started buying in but still have like only bit more than 5BTC, hopefully can accumulate more and let it be only choochoo for 2014.

So maybe I could be somekind of an example for you, you can if you want.

Peace.

this a very good point, piramida, but the paradigm is liable to change at some point -- the problem is we simply do not know when!

--arepo

Just like the paradigms of wedges and triangles are liable to require change for the infant market of Bitcoin...

Good for you.
You should really travel a a bit to see how other people live and why those immigrants come and do all the crap jobs. In Poland, Ukraine, Bulgaria and many other typical monthly wage is below $500. I used to work 12 hours a day for $2/h (!) and I have a master's degree, speak 3 languages and can do anything from repairing your car to setting up a LAN network. I know people who have PhD in science and work for $600/month. Before you start complaining about your hard and exhausting $20/h job come and visit us third worlders  ;)

Easy - bitcoin is not yet at worldwide adoption stage, so if the paradigm is broken *now*, that would mean bitcoin has failed. So if the growth stops now, it would make sense to get out of bitcoin asap. But I don't think it is time now, or that this time would ever come. What I think would happen, is the price will (after several more rally/crash cycles) arrive at a more or less steady state with slow natural growth against inflating fiat. But until that point, there is only one direction, and it is up. If it's broken, something went wrong and you should get out. For me, it's that simple.

[bolded for emphasis]

spoken like a true trader.

but oh, there will be a day when the growth stops and everyone who wants a bitcoin has one. and then the speculators will leave. they will exit the market in troves and the ones who stay will short and we will enter the first real bear market bitcoin will have ever seen, The Great Correction to its heretofore undisturbed infinite bullrun... but that likely won't happen yet for quite some time.

hint: the paradigm isn't "everybody gets rich". you speak like if you can't get returns on your bitcoin investment it's 'broken'.

--arepo

Brilliantly said. Let me add that this is how the skilled immigrants who speak three languages and have masters degrees take the jobs from that lazy percent of natives who are too used to comfort and decide to stay ignorant instead.

Guess which one of the two categories above does actually contribute more to a nation's wealth?

Hint: most xenophobes in UK are unemployed white trash natives whose dole is partly financed with immigrants' income taxes.

Excellent advice.

I think the idea here is to not lose out on a huge amount of growth in an effort to get the best possible deal. Sure, I would like to buy bitcoin at $500 instead of $850. However, if bitcoin goes to $10,000 by the end of 2014, buying in at $850 is a much better idea than sitting around hoping that bitcoin will dip sometime between then and now.

If you're bullish mid/longterm, just buy now and worry about the other stuff later.

There are 2 basic rules to be being a player in any market.

Incremental buys on the way down.

Incremental sells on the way up.

Sitting around and waiting for the right time is kind of like not jumping into a lake because you are afraid to get wet.

Not sure if this reply was for me or OP but yeah, I ensure you I know how crappy places and lives most of the people on this planet have. Here in cambodia for example average wage for month is something like 100-200$ and these people work 15-20hours a day. And theres no weekends or vacations. I am not complaining about my life or setup, I believe it pretty much is the best situation where i possibly could have gotten by this age. Ofcourse I could be making lots more money if I just had been in school for longer time, got myself a degree in something and so on but I never was interested in that. I want to live my life in this beautiful planet and see places and people I surely wouldnt see if I had to work my ass off with 40-50hours a week in an office to get that ~70k€ year. So now I make maybe 25-30k€ and enjoy my life for the rest of the time, Have to make do with shoestring budget when I'm in Finland for the summer but then when winter comes and it's time to go away again and my money has 5-10X buying power compared to Finland I can live like a king and spend 30-40$ a day.

Bitcoin never will be 10.000 usd. Who would buy bitcoins for 10k a pop?

Right now the only reason 99% of the trades is because they want to make profit and turn back into fiat. Once that is over the bubble will pop and bitcoin will stay in the 100 dollar range forever. I rather have 10 million usd than 11000k bitcoins

Unless bitcoin has a steady price and is accepted everywhere like cash it will never be accepted by society.
You can do everything with cash but not so much with bitcoins. That is the sad truth

Speak for yourself...

Do you realize that if bitcoin is heavily adopted $10,000 for an entire bitcoin (it's pretty clear mBTC will be widely adopted by then) will likely be a memory of the distant past? If bitcoin really takes off, $100,000 for an entire bitcoin is a real possibility. Of course, that's if bitcoin really takes off.

You can't send cash across the globe in seconds. That's where Bitcoin steps in.

http://bitbet.us/bet/635/1btc-10-000-usd/

Place your bets gentlemen, place your bets! Easy money on a sure thing, no way to lose, place your bets!

No, I would consider bitcoin perfectly unbroken if it ever reaches mainstream adoption. I would not care if the price goes down or up then, will trade the swings, this would be a safe investment by then, I don't think there would be a need to exit. Time to exit would be if the price goes down *before* worldwide adoption.

People don't have to buy by the pop, they will think if they buy 100US$ worth of bitcoins today, next year they can have 10,000US$

I was talking to you and Ibian. From time to time I see people complaining about their situation, and you mentioning immigrants just triggered my response. On one hand we have people begging for donations, on the other a topic where some guys argue whether $1mil is enough to live comfortably. Most of my friends left the country to work abroad simply because they can earn 4-6 times more in just any job. If you're let's say a teacher in Eastern Europe you earn $500/month and then there's income tax, medical care, VAT and so on. In Germany it's $2000. Who woldn't move?

When a whole bitcoin is enough to retire on, anyone would jump at the chance for a cheap $10k whole coin.

We're still nowhere near the vertical stage of the adoption curve.

I think we are close to it.
We only need more poular media-Attention and the vertical starts.
In Germany it will be DER SPIEGEL, FOCUS,STERN and the tabloid BILD.
In Canada ?
In the USA Newsweek,Time Magazine and ?

In Germany?
These papers are for the uneducated dumbass. They will never buy bitcoin, either they are to stupid or don`t have any money to spare.
That's the majority of germany.

It depends on your timeframe and scale.  If you are are trading a small portion of your position over a long time to preserve profits and gain from selloffs, incremental is the way to go.  If you are taking large, short term positions to make profits in whatever asset you prefer to hold, then go with Livermore.

Different styles for different temperaments.  It takes all kinds to make a market.  Personally, I go the Livermore route for fun while my bot handles the incremental.  Just never go short with leverage in this market unless you have nerves of steel.

I appreciate your friendly view on the Germans.
I never thought I am an uneducated dumbass.

Don't we need some more infrastructure as well? Several large, reliable exchanges that can handle the waves of new buyers?

I think BTC is still at least a year away from truly going mainstream (in the Western world). And then there's the rest of the world, where most people live. There's tremendous upside.

The people are just dumb... it's the same in every country.
Not just germany.

The people are happy with food, shelter and apple products.

Aaa ok, maybe I didnt make my stand clearly, I dont have any problems with immigrants, I would move myself if in an other country I could get paid better. I'm actually going to be a immigrant of somesort in few weeks when I leave Asia and head to New Zealand for rest of the winter, have to earn some pocket money to cover the extra prices compared to Asia. Other question remains if it is good for a country like Finland to be part of european union or €uro. I have been working with many estonian and polish guys when I was scaffolding and they always worked really hard and got the crappiest jobs. And got still paid like really low wage compared to finnish workers.  

I think it will start hitting the vertical between $5k-10k and start leveling off due to saturation somewhere around $500k-700k. Just my opinion, not a prediction.

Media attention in Canada?

CBC, CTV, Global, Rogers, etc., and the daily newspapers: Globe and Mail, National post on a national scale, plus local dailies like the Toronto Star, Vancouver Sun, Montreal Gazette, etc.

Magazines are almost obsolete. In fact the former best magazine store in my neighborhood recently replaced the magazine rack with a greeting card display. The only places to find all the magazines are at the railway station and bus depot.

I get it, it makes sense for immigrants to move to higher paying countries. What does not make sense is for our politicians to allow it in such absurd numbers. Both the economy and the society is being ruined, in part because of immigration.

On the other hand, it makes sense for people with a large enough amount of savings to move to another country where they can get 5 times as much for their money. Which is precisely what I plan to do.

Besides the above, any country can be worth living in if the people and policies in it are acceptable. They no longer are, and haven't been for some 20 years or more. Increased immigration and decreasing purchasing power are just symptoms of a larger social disease. It happens whenever an empire begins to crumble from the inside. The west won't be leading the world 50 years from now.

+1

hahahahahhaahhaahhaahahahah