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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CX7ur4Ey5X4

--
Cheers!
The Madhatter

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Don't you wish you could delete and change things faster? Well, the
internet doesn't really work that way does it? We had that stuff
archived over a year ago -- it's old news to us.

Look, I always knew you were a pervert. Ever since you first appeared on
the forums. I kept your secrets for a long time.

Your reputation is toast. Now, I don't even have to lift a finger. The
rest will run its course organically.

You got sloppy and you put people I know in harms way. That was
irresponsible and unforgivable.

I have more information about the things your group is involved in, but
it is so fucking sick I'm afraid to even think it. If the police ever do
find me and show up on my doorstep they'll be the first to get a copy.

We want you to leave Bitcoin now. You've served your purpose. We can
take it from here. Pack your bags and fuck off now. Go back to whoring
or something else instead, pretty please?

--
Cheers!
The Madhatter

Just to set the record straight....

I am not a pedophile.    I am a homosexual.   But those are two completely different things.   In fact, the vast majority of pedophiles are heterosexual.

I have never had any sort of sexual relations with anyone under age --- ever in my life --- even when I was underage myself, and I certainly have no interest in doing so.    It is a horrific and despicable thing.    ( Even when I was under 18, my first boyfriend was 19, and I was 17.   We were together for 6 years. )

I do not condone rape.   It is equally despicable.   I never condone any acts of violence, unless in direct self defense.    I have never raped anyone.

Absolutely everyone familiar with Thai culture in the least knows that ALL males are referred to as "boys" --- even if they are 38 years old.    And ALL females are referred to as "girls", similarly.   It is just the terminology they use.    It is a bit disconcerting at first.... to hear them constantly refer to someone older than you as a "boy" or a "girl"....   but you get used to it.    It is a part of their culture and customs.

I happen to know that Thailand's laws against child-sex are extremely strict.    IDs are checked everywhere, and multiple times, to insure that everyone is over 18 years old.    Thailand's laws are much stricter, in this regard, than the laws of New York, New Jersey, or Connecticut --- where the legal age of consent is only 17, in fact.

However, again, I have never had any such interest in anyone who is not an adult.... ever in my life.

What has happened is....

I have spoken out against the MyBitcoin posse.....   Madhatter, his close familial relationship with NanaimoGold, etc., etc.

I've also spoken out against the vandalism --- to the point of the destruction of --- this Forum.....  by kid hackers who absolutely HATE libertarian values, and bitcoin, and what those concepts stand for.

The Result is Clear.

This Forum has become their obvious target.   They want to destroy it.    And they've done a good job of that.

And I have become a target --- and they want to destroy me --- because I promote Bitcoin, and I am enthusiastic about Bitcoin....  and, the fact is, people listen to me.    So they are trying oh so desperately to discredit me.

Then, add to that, the MyBitcoin heist by all the names associated with each other on the #bitcoin-police wiki....   and you get the complete picture.

These are Bitcoin Haters.....   and MyBitcoin Thieves who are now Fugitives.

Many of the statements made about me by these people are clearly libelous.   I am retaining legal counsel to pursue all legal avenues with regard to such libelous statements made about me.

As you can see in these two emails I just received today....    The MyBitcoin thieves are scared.    They are only hoping that I do, in fact, have something to hide.   Sorry to disappoint...   But I do not.

Sorry about your luck someone... or whatever other obvious pseudonym you're using today.    :)

I have absolutely nothing to hide.    And I have broken no laws.      ( other than a big fat ticket for not wearing a seat belt recently.  :)   )

Two interesting emails I received today...

Email 1 from Madhatter Today:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

Email 2 from Madhatter Today:


As you can see, he is desperate and scared.   He hopes against all odds that I have something to hide... and that he ( they ) can intimidate me into stopping.... telling the truth.

Absolutely everyone familiar with Thai culture in the least knows that ALL males are referred to as "boys" --- even if they are 38 years old.

Absolutely everyone familiar with Thai culture in the least knows that ALL males are referred to as "boys" --- even if they are 38 years old.    And ALL females are referred to as "girls", similarly.   It is just the terminology they use.    It is a bit disconcerting at first.... to hear them constantly refer to someone older than you as a "boy" or a "girl"....   but you get used to it.    It is a part of their culture and customs.

"You got sloppy and you put people I know in harms way. That was irresponsible and unforgivable."

I would recommend to anyone checking the number of posts of the people answering here. Usually the "users" with low post count go in one direction and the user with high post count go in another direction.

I would recommend to anyone checking the number of posts of the people answering here. Usually the "users" with low post count go in one direction and the user with high post count go in another direction.

I think it'd be best for Bitcoin if you stepped out of the spotlight for now, and gave others a chance to step up.  We need a chance to diversify and decentralize the Bitcoin "PR department".  Just take a break from your promotional activities for a little while and wait for the air to clear.

brucewagner said:

Men and Boys: Ever pee in a bottle in public? take my anonymous poll http://ping.fm/Y6xyQ
1 year, 7 months ago.

I'm dying to go back to Pattaya, Thailand... Paradise on Earth.
1 year, 7 months ago.

I would recommend to anyone checking the number of posts of the people answering here. Usually the "users" with low post count go in one direction and the user with high post count go in another direction.

Again, this forum has been under constant attack from trolls and people with clone users. Low count users is very indicative of being a troll or a clone trying to "create opinion" or give the impression that a majority of the opinions go in some directions when it is not the case (although there are some, few, low count users that are valid). Just understand that if a bunch of low count users are all posting in mass in a thread with opinions in the same direction you know what is happening.

Again, this forum has been under constant attack from trolls and people with clone users. Low count users is very indicative of being a troll or a clone trying to "create opinion" or give the impression that a majority of the opinions go in some directions when it is not the case (although there are some, few, low count users that are valid). Just understand that if a bunch of low count users are all posting in mass in a thread with opinions in the same direction you know what is happening.

Violating people's privacy is exactly the sort of thing causes fear of "hackers". These accusations do nothing more than further associate bitcoin with the "hacking" community, as the media portrays it. Hopefully, the aggressors realize they're causing real harm to both Bruce and bitcoin. Otherwise, I recommend that they quit their day jobs, as their online personas are involved in personal attacks to the detriment of bitcoin.

And holding what is being touted as an "official" Bitcoin conference in a city that is considered to be the international capital of child sex slavery does nothing more associate it with that stigma. Ignoring the communities input that this is a bad idea and to reconsider is another major issue here. If he wants to do his vacationing there, it's none of my business nor is it any of my business what he does there, but if he's attaching Bitcoin to it and promoting it as an official event, then we should all be concerned that the people behind it might not have the best interests of the community at heart - which is what got us in this mess to begin with. He knew about the reputation of Pattaya yet denied that it was an issue and dismissed the concerns of the community at hand without any acknowledgement of the validity of the concerns.

Again; don't go. Already we're seeing alternatives pop up. (See Prague Convention) This isn't some official event sanctioned by the community. If the community doesn't back it, it is nothing more than a vacation for a bitcoin-holding social group.

Bruce is pushing us all forward, at his own expense and time. I'm not sure Pattaya is the best choice either, but the simple solution is to vote with your feet.

@JeffK
You only make yourself sound like a christian fundamentalist. There is nothing wrong with consensual sex.

That would help eliminating the doubt that this email is a smoke screen, and the whole story a big and complex theater play.

@JeffK
You only make yourself sound like a christian fundamentalist.

By the way, for a little more clarification...

In that excerpt from 2006, in that forum... which is being attributed to me...    The FACT is....   My post was the one at the top.     The message I was REPLYING TO was the one at the bottom...

In other words, my words were at the top --- before the word "QUOTE(tdperhs..." etc.

The words after  "QUOTE(tdperhs..."   ....is the other guy's post.....   the post to which I was replying.

Those words about a "virgins and newbies" and "a three pronged attack"....   were NOT my words.    

You can see clearly that I was quoting that other guy.

In my reply, I was defending the guys who work there in that business....  Saying that it's great that people tip them well, but the problem is one of economics.   They are so poor, they cannot refuse even the scumbags who mistreat them.... and then underpay them.    It's a very sad thing.    THAT is what I was saying.

If you re-read it in that light, it will make sense to you.

I have never been to any place called "Atom Bomb" and none of those words are in character for me.

Also, Pattaya is very well know for its Four Seasons and Ritz Carleton and Marriott Resort Hotels on the beaches.... and which are used for conventions, as well as it's Pattaya Exhibition and Convention Hall.     Just look at some of these pictures:   http://www.peachthailand.com/exhibition-convention/ (http://www.peachthailand.com/exhibition-convention/)

Millions of people, and families, go there from all over the world for conventions and expos every year.   But if you don't like Pattaya or Thailand, please just don't go.     It's just that simple.

By the way, for a little more clarification...

In that excerpt from 2006, in that forum... which is being attributed to me...    The FACT is....   My post was the one at the top.     The message I was REPLYING TO was the one at the bottom...

In other words, my words were at the top --- before the word "QUOTE(tdperhs..." etc.

The words after  "QUOTE(tdperhs..."   ....is the other guy's post.....   the post to which I was replying.

Those words about a "virgins and newbies" and "a three pronged attack"....   were NOT my words.    

You can see clearly that I was quoting that other guy.

In my reply, I was defending the guys who work there in that business....  Saying that it's great that people tip them well, but the problem is one of economics.   They are so poor, they cannot refuse even the scumbags who mistreat them.... and then underpay them.    It's a very sad thing.    THAT is what I was saying.

If you re-read it in that light, it will make sense to you.

I have never been to any place called "Atom Bomb" and none of those words are in character for me.

Also, Pattaya is very well know for its Four Seasons and Ritz Carleton and Marriott Resort Hotels on the beaches.... and which are used for conventions, as well as it's Pattaya Exhibition and Convention Hall.     Just look at some of these pictures:   http://www.peachthailand.com/exhibition-convention/ (http://www.peachthailand.com/exhibition-convention/)

Millions of people, and families, go there from all over the world for conventions and expos every year.   But if you don't like Pattaya or Thailand, please just don't go.     It's just that simple.

You still defend Pattaya steadfastly and you still do not address the concerns of the community that you were thinking with your dick (with of-age prostitutes in Pataya) rather than the with the best interests of the community at all. You see no reason why Bitcoin might not need to be connected with this place, that is more internationally known for their illicit sex trade than for their Four Seasons or Ritz Carleton. This is just beyond rational thought that you see no problem with this and continue promoting this as an "official" Bitcoin event.

You are also aware that prostitution, like the child sex trade, is illegal in Pattaya. There goes your argument that the child sex trade is strictly enforced by the authorities, when it's clear they don't even enforce their prostitution laws.

Why not choose a city with an airport? Why not some other major financial hub in Thailand? Why a city specifically known for underage sex tourism?

By the way, for a little more clarification...

In that excerpt from 2006, in that forum... which is being attributed to me...    The FACT is....   My post was the one at the top.     The message I was REPLYING TO was the one at the bottom...

In other words, my words were at the top --- before the word "QUOTE(tdperhs..." etc.

The words after  "QUOTE(tdperhs..."   ....is the other guy's post.....   the post to which I was replying.

Those words about a "virgins and newbies" and "a three pronged attack"....   were NOT my words.    

You can see clearly that I was quoting that other guy.

Also, there is no city in Thailand known for underage tourism.   Thailand has very strict laws against it... which are strictly enforced with extremely harsh punishments.

I will take a survey of the ACTUAL REAL adults who attended this past Conference.... ( not the endless personas here belonging to 13-year-old bitcoin and libertarian haters )  and I will ask them if they would prefer Pattaya, or some other destination.   It makes little difference to me.

By the way, for a little more clarification...

In that excerpt from 2006, in that forum... which is being attributed to me...    The FACT is....   My post was the one at the top.     The message I was REPLYING TO was the one at the bottom...

In other words, my words were at the top --- before the word "QUOTE(tdperhs..." etc.

The words after  "QUOTE(tdperhs..."   ....is the other guy's post.....   the post to which I was replying.

Those words about a "virgins and newbies" and "a three pronged attack"....   were NOT my words.    

You can see clearly that I was quoting that other guy.

In my reply, I was defending the guys who work there in that business....  Saying that it's great that people tip them well, but the problem is one of economics.   They are so poor, they cannot refuse even the scumbags who mistreat them.... and then underpay them.    It's a very sad thing.    THAT is what I was saying.

If you re-read it in that light, it will make sense to you.

I have never been to any place called "Atom Bomb" and none of those words are in character for me.

Also, Pattaya is very well know for its Four Seasons and Ritz Carleton and Marriott Resort Hotels on the beaches.... and which are used for conventions, as well as it's Pattaya Exhibition and Convention Hall.     Just look at some of these pictures:   http://www.peachthailand.com/exhibition-convention/ (http://www.peachthailand.com/exhibition-convention/)

Millions of people, and families, go there from all over the world for conventions and expos every year.   But if you don't like Pattaya or Thailand, please just don't go.     It's just that simple.

By the way, in case anyone is curious....   PUNLman stands for what I believe in.   PUNL.    Pure Unconditional Non-judgmental Love.   .....which is what I am all about.   .....and which always wins in the end.    :)

Who gives a shit if Bruce is a fagot or whatever. I still want my coins back from mybitcoin. Suppose to get 49% back but got only 33% back. Karma will get him. One day someone is going to sneak behind the mybitcoin fagot thief and stab him in the back multiple times and I would love to see that shit so I can point and laugh at his ass just like Nelson in the Simpson. "haha!"

Also, the second creepy post looks like your classic, elipsis and period filled diatribes

Oh really? Maybe the State Department and the United Nations InterAgency Project on Human Trafficking  are just being silly. They characterize the entire country as being a haven for underage tourism.

http://www.humantrafficking.org/countries/thailand


http://jurist.org/paperchase/2011/08/un-rights-expert-urges-thailand-to-combat-human-trafficking.php

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking_in_Thailand

http://www.worldvision.org/content.nsf/learn/globalissues-stp

http://www.notforsalecampaign.org/about/slavery/

http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/human-trafficking/index.html


You are either willfully ignorant or just plainly spouting bullshit.

OH - and here are some Pattaya specific ones:
http://preventhumantrafficking.org/pattaya/
http://news.change.org/stories/why-is-thailand-a-hub-for-child-sex-tourism
http://www.hhnthailand.org/en/projects/child-protection-and-development-center/the-problem/
http://untilthen.org/the-missing-street-children-of-pattaya-thailand/

Try again, Bruce. We can go all day with this, there's an entire archive at the UN we can go through and plenty of other organizations who will be glad to share their knowledge of this issue on Pattaya.

Finally, you remind me of this guy Bruce with your flat denial of Child Sex Slavery being an issue in Thailand and Pattaya specifically:
http://scottthong.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/iraqiministerbersih.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/6FaTH.png


Where do we draw the lines? Poor child molestors molesting people younger than 18 and being labeled a child molestor forever! A bloo bloo bloo

When I was 17 I started dating a 16 year old girl. When I was 18 and she was 17 we were still dating and having sex. It was my first important relation and one that me (and I believe her as well) will remember forever. Under USA law I would have been a criminal. Its stupid to ruin first relationships and put pressure on teens because of stupid laws.

Watch out with that. There is a lot of people that disagree with the USA laws regarding minors and sex. In my country, Spain, the law states that its legal for a 14 year old person to have sex with and adult (consensual obviously).

Watch out with that. There is a lot of people that disagree with the USA laws regarding minors and sex. In my country, Spain, the law states that its legal for a 14 year old person to have sex with and adult (consensual obviously). Most of the world except the USA has more lax laws regarding under-18 years old and sex. So you are going to find lots of people in the world, a big majority, that thinks that USA laws are stupid, including me. There is nothing exceptional on what Bruce is saying.

When I was 17 I started dating a 16 year old girl. When I was 18 and she was 17 we were still dating and having sex. It was my first important relation and one that me (and I believe her as well) will remember forever. Under USA law I would have been a criminal. Its stupid to ruin first rIelationships and put pressure on teens because of stupid laws.

And your views on someone having sex with a 13 year old?  

The point is that Bruce isn't advocating having sex with a 13 year old. He's complaining about the hypocrisy of age of consent laws in the US, which is a position many of us will actually agree with.

Unfortunately, added in with all the rest of his commentary on sex with young people, it looks pretty bad.

Nope, not really. The two are separate and the only thing linking them is innuendo and rumour. Still a witch hunt. Still unbecoming of a mature and sophisticated online community... which this clearly appears not to be  :D

The point is that Bruce isn't advocating having sex with a 13 year old. He's complaining about the hypocrisy of age of consent laws in the US, which is a position many of us will actually agree with.

Bruce was raging against the fact that having sex with someone under the age of consent in his country is illegal.

I wanted the Spanish person's opinion of people who have sex with someone under the age of consent in their country.

And you are not going to get it because given my post its obvious what I was trying to say (and also you can guess my position). I wont play stupid rethoric games.

Bruce was raging against the fact that having sex with someone under the age of consent in his country is illegal.

No he wasn't. He was speaking to the hypocrisy of drawing an artificial line in the sand between having sex with someone who is 17 years 11 months and 29 days old, versus that same person the following morning.

I can understand that you may find the difference between the two subtle, but if you were to make that argument in court you'd get lashed pretty quickly by any judge worth his or her salt.

I want to point out that Nanaimagold and his multinicks did EXACTLY the same they are doing here with Bruce Wagner, but with Praxum. They cite forum posts attributing words that are not theirs to the people they are trying to slander, and when the deception is pointed out they change subject, trying to get people to ignore the fact that they are presenting false proof and trying to keep the pressure in the person they are attacking.

You can check how he did the same here with Praxum: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=32604.0 (fun starts at page 3). At the end there are always lots of accusations and noise, but absolutely no proof. Same "modus operandis".

You are so full of shit. You twist what I say to fit you own agenda. At no point have I ever changed my mind or backed up on my opinion of that Mallick gang. I take nothing back and never did. Some moderator closed that thread before I could reply.

You are a sneaky word wanker. You even misspell nanaimogold and paxum to avoid people finding this nonsense with google.

nanaimogold,
Why don't you disclose the fact that adoption of bitcoin as the de facto digital currency destroys your business?

Your self-interest destroys any credibility you might have about bitcoin considering your financial interest is diametrically opposed to it.

And holding what is being touted as an "official" Bitcoin conference in a city that is considered to be the international capital of child sex slavery & child sex tourism does nothing more associate it with that stigma. Ignoring the communities input that this is a bad idea and to reconsider is another major issue here. If he wants to do his vacationing there, it's none of my business nor is it any of my business what he does there, but if he's attaching Bitcoin to it and promoting it as an official event, then we should all be concerned that the people behind it might not have the best interests of the community at heart - which is what got us in this mess to begin with. He knew about the reputation of Pattaya yet denied that it was an issue and dismissed the concerns of the community at hand without any acknowledgement of the validity of the concerns. Nor did he reveal that he had a personal interest in holding the conference there when confronted about it. That wouldn't have been a problem if he had just told people that it was more of a personal vacation than it was a conference. I just got back from Shanghai a couple weeks ago and there was a gentleman there from Thailand on business. We were talking in the bar of our hotel and Bitcoin came up in our conversation. I mentioned a conference being held in his country at Pattaya and he was very animated in his response -  "Don't got to Pattaya, it's a very bad place and shameful on our country". Now I know what he meant by that.

Beyond that, I agree with you. The pedophilia accusations are still as of yet unproven and it would be best left out of any discussion regarding Bruce.

nanaimogold,
Why don't you disclose the fact that adoption of bitcoin as the de facto digital currency destroys your business?

Your self-interest destroys any credibility you might have about bitcoin considering your financial interest is diametrically opposed to it.

What I will do is this:   

I will take a survey of the ACTUAL REAL adults who attended this past Conference.... ( not the endless personas here belonging to 13-year-old bitcoin and libertarian haters )  and I will ask them if they would prefer Pattaya, or some other destination.   It makes little difference to me.

That's not true at all, and your saying so betrays your lack of understanding. People still face the same problem they had getting into e-gold, Pecunix LR and now bitcoin. If you can't pay in cash, you can't get in. The auctions like Mt Gox serve a different function and are no competition to an exchanger. You might hear people refer to Gox, TH et al as "exchangers" but they are really not exchanging at all. The exchanger is Dwolla or Paxum. Mt Gox is the auction where traders meet. There is no exchange of fiat to digital currency there. Nobody at Gox will hold your hand through a WU, wire or other payment. You have to already have the DC when you get to Gox, or you can't trade there.

I hold bitcoin that is decreasing in value because of this scandal, but it's something that has needed to come to a head for almost a year. Bruce was asked nicely then to not mix up his hobby of boy fucking into our new payment system. He feels entitled to goatse everyone who looks into bitcoin and has done huge damage to us for all this time. People don't want to associate with a staid subject like payment systems when it fronted up by a self appointed spokesman who clearly does not understand it and uses it only to further the above mentioned hobby.

psy > U mad bro? Maybe because people have more evidence that connects you with the MyBitcoin Scam than you have against the ones you accuse?

psy > If you are really that aggravated because of someone falsely accusing you, then you should be the first to hold back your horses before accusing others without evidence.


As for "accusing" him, I did no such thing. I pointed out that he was inviting forum users, who are largely minors, to conference in a bath house without revealing that fact. I did no accusing. I offered the opinion that this tactic is sneaky. I have not changed my mind about that.

Bruce did all the accusing of himself. I think he is so lost in his sin that he does not even recognise it as such. To him the only thing wrong is the existance of a law that opposes his luring and sexual interference.

He shit his dirty felching smegma on my life's work. He brought this gaggle of supporters in with him from some bath house forum of the underground. The real payment professionals abandon the bitcoin ship in disgust. We need a conservative educated in finance to speak for the system, not a fruity dumfuk who can't get it into his head that bitcoin was developed to address the need for anonymous non-reversible payments made at long distance. Instead he wants to mold it into "meeting up" in coffee shops. We have no need for that, we have silver coins and fiat dollars already. He spent so much time trying to make bitcoin some extention of "USD" - it took people on this forum months to get him to stop doing that. He published online that my own system was some extention of USD without any idea of the tacit agreemnt he was creating for me in this.

He simply DOES NOT GET IT. But he does get excited boys to "meet up" for what we have recently learned to be a fact.

And one more point I need to make especially to the liar hugolp. I have NEVER had more than one nick on this or ANY forum I have used. I rarely even look at the pile of crap that this forum has become. I wish I had never even reigstered here and am ashamed to be recognised in the same species as you clawing screeching filthy lying gaggle of immoral nancys.

Yeah, I'm mad bro. I've spent almost ten years working what a bunch of sociopaths has completely defiled in mere months.

ive always been a fan of yours bruce. In fact I found out about this from your mailing list. The whole pattaya thing looks really bad though - In my very humble opinion I think you should take a step out of the spot light for awhile. God knows Bitcoin as a whole as well as BTC values have suffered enough at the hands of scandal. We really don't need another scandal right now since we have been below $10 USD since the "expo".

btw I like your flickr folder, this one is particularly funny.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/brucewagner/4901162363/in/photostream

thanks for your time.
good luck!

Look, I don't care if Bruce is gay or has been a sex worker or any of that crap.  I don't believe he's a pedophile, and other than some kinks that I don't really share, he's proven himself to be 100% on the level.  Stop trying to dig for skeletons, trolls!

While the judge is fucking his children and his maid and jacking off under the table with a wet sock.

So, let's just pretend that insisting on Pattaya as a conference location isn't really suspicious.

What about this article claiming that you were involved in mortgage fraud in Illinois?
http://mortgagefraudblog.com/perp-walk/item/10674-illinois_foreclosure_rescue_company_fined_and_shut_down

Another problem solved in my life: Wet the sock!

This is sickening me.  I am issuing a challenge to non-trolls in this forum to step up and put some support behind Bruce.  He's not perfect, but he's our de facto spokesperson, and having his name dragged through the mud makes us all look bad.  For the sake of Bitcoins, stand behind Bruce Wagner.


Bruce hasn't done anything wrong.  He's not a scammer, a rapist, a pedophile, or any of that stuff people are accusing him of.  He's doing his best for the community and we should be thanking him.

This is sickening me.  I am issuing a challenge to non-trolls in this forum to step up and put some support behind Bruce.  He's not perfect, but he's our de facto spokesperson, and having his name dragged through the mud makes us all look bad.  For the sake of Bitcoins, stand behind Bruce Wagner.


Bruce hasn't done anything wrong.  He's not a scammer, a rapist, a pedophile, or any of that stuff people are accusing him of.  He's doing his best for the community and we should be thanking him.

So, let's just pretend that insisting on Pattaya as a conference location isn't really suspicious.

What about this article claiming that you were involved in mortgage fraud in Illinois?
http://mortgagefraudblog.com/perp-walk/item/10674-illinois_foreclosure_rescue_company_fined_and_shut_down

+1  the people who have forum handles here and are associated with the something aweful forum need to come out here and say they are - so we can separate the trolls from real members - what do you say about that? if we find more then half come from that stupid forum then Bruce is being attacked falsely...I suspect this.

+1  the people who have forum handles here and are associated with the something aweful forum need to come out here and say they are - so we can separate the trolls from real members - what do you say about that? if we find more then half come from that stupid forum then Bruce is being attacked falsely...I suspect this.

It's the same guy.

This is bullshit. It's nothing but a common first and last name.

I'm from somethingisawful.com.  Can you really claim a false attack when we're just pointing out stuff that's really easy to find on the internet?  I used to defend Bruce.  Sure, I didn't agree with his views on bitcoins, but I thought he was a lovable dupe following his dream.  

It's hard to hold that opinion when you find information that he was involved in a mortgage scam stealing money from people, though:
http://mortgagefraudblog.com/perp-walk/item/10674-illinois_foreclosure_rescue_company_fined_and_shut_down

Please explain to me how it's a 'false attack' when the article is from 2007 and none of us knew he existed back then.

This is bullshit. It's nothing but a common first and last name.

No, it's not.

At least you are honest I'll give you that  :).  I wasn't referring to the "mortgage scam" I don't have an opinion on it and wasn't my point - we've all done something wrong once in our life. I was pointing out as for as I know somethingawefull is troll board that mobilizes to bring down people either  right or wrong ... in this case most likely wrong - is this correct to assume this? I see no good of a board like that compared to this where there is actually intelligent talking going on ( minus the scams) . I mean correct me if I'm wrong in my thinking?  Also, you have full right to be member of that board I just wish people were more honest like yourself!

No, we're not a troll board.  We do like to laugh at people acting stupid, and we like to point out really horrible shit about people that others are missing, but 'mobilizing' is considered forum invasion and against the rules.  If you think there's no intelligent conversation on SA then you're deluding yourself.  We do tend to dogpile obvious BS, though.

I love bitcoins as a study of money since I'm an Economics/Accounting major which is why I've followed it this closely.  This Bruce stuff is just the newest in a long string of hilarious and completely obvious shit to come out of the project.

You have to admit where does the line stop with "bs" and the truth -  as you say and what kind of credibility can a forum like that have when you start blasting someone with really bad accusations with basically no evidence or the person can't even defend themselves? And your ok with associating with people who do this and do this on another forum around a great technology as bitcoin?  and who does this for fun?

If "mobilizing" is against the rules if I were to ask let me see a raise of hands how many people on this thread are from SA I bet a good portion would be from there  and this isn't "breaking the rules"?

I don't know about the rest of you but there is no creditably from ANYONE from SA  member and who is also a member of this forum to go around accusing others for the "fun of it". Just my humble opinion.

Also, this article from 2006 is clearly about him and has him living in the Illinois area, matching up with the article.
http://therealbrucewagner.blogspot.com/

i would have to say i am slightly relived that he is not a pedophile. However I don't think we really ever needed a "spokesmen".

I also think all the shit people are giving him is uncalled for. Although i didn't see as much as you would think, but i still don't particularly care for it.

Illinois Foreclosure Rescue Company Fined and Shut Down
Wednesday, April 19 2006 12:27
Following a lawsuit brought by Illinois Cook County State's Attorney Richard Devine, a fraudulent mortgage lending company has been fined $250,000 and banned from doing business in Illinois.

Bold Funding, Inc. and its owner-operator, Bruce Wagner, were found to have violated Illinois law by falsely promising to secure private funding for loans to save the homes of persons who were in foreclosure for a fee ranging from $300 to $6,670.

In Civil Court on April 18, 2006, Judge Julia Nowicki ordered Bold Funding and Bruce Wagner to refund $115,858 in application fees to 74 former customers who never received any funding from the Defendants. Bold Funding and Bruce Wagner were also fined $250,000, and the Defendants were permanently banned from providing any services in Illinois related to residential mortgage loans.

"The taking of monies from vulnerable homeowners in foreclosure under false pretenses is reprehensibleX," Devine said. "Any company which purports to help homeowners who are in foreclosure must follow the law and fulfill its promises to assist its customers."

In 2004, Bold Funding maintained its "headquarters" at a commercial post office box at 40 E. Chicago Ave., Chicago, Illinois. Bold Funding also operated a website at http://www.boldfunding.com and sponsored hundreds of commercials on local and out-of-state radio stations. On its website and radio commercials, Bold Funding claimed that it could save homes from foreclosure even after a Sheriff s sale. Homeowners in foreclosure sent thousands of dollars to Bold Funding under the belief that Bold Funding would secure funding to refinance their mortgages and save their homes. The Defendants did not arrange or provide any funding. Neither Bold Funding nor Bruce Wagner ever possessed an Illinois residential mortgage broker's or lender's license.

On November 10, 2004, the Cook County State's Attorney's Office Consumer Fraud Division filed its lawsuit against Bold Funding and Bruce Wagner charging the Defendants with violating the Illinois Consumer Fraud and Deceptive Business Practices Act. This lawsuit was initiated after the State's Attorney's Office received numerous complaints from citizens regarding Bold Funding. Bold Funding and Bruce Wagner could not identify anyone who actually received any funding through the efforts of the Defendants. The court heard testimony from one victim who testified that she lost her home, and another victim who testified that he had to file for bankruptcy to save his home after the Defendants failed to obtain funding for him.

Consumers with questions or complaints about other foreclosure "rescue" businesses may contact the Cook County State's Attorney's Office, Consumer Fraud Division, at (312) 603-8700, or online at http://www.statesattorney.org.

Are you suggesting that we're going back in time and creating articles 5 years ago to discredit someone?  Whether or not any one of us is trustworthy is kind of besides the point.  The information is available for anyone willing to look for it.

Also, Bruce has an account here and is CEO of a worldwide television network.  That's pretty much the definition of 'public figure' and he has multiple avenues to defend himself.

So we'll stop playing a game of 'our facts vs his' and play 'post the court documents and screenshots' when we get all the shit we're digging up organized
Not suggesting that at all. But then you are suggesting you ( SA ) has never been wrong either. I don't have a beef with SA I just want more transparency so the other forum members who don't know who SA is  can know who is associated with whom so they can make a well thought out opinion . I'm not taking a side either - who knows maybe Bruce has done what you all are accusing him of doing but it doesn't do you all any good to hide behind any "motives" either.

He does have many venue's but up against hundreds of SA members there is no way he'll be able to get his facts our to the story against a "machine" like this. Thanks for a civil discussion btw.

:)

Not suggesting that at all. But then you are suggesting you ( SA ) has never been wrong either. I don't have a beef with SA I just want more transparency so the other forum members who don't know who SA is  can know who is associated with whom so they can make a well thought out opinion . I'm not taking a side either - who knows maybe Bruce has done what you all are accusing him of doing but it doesn't do you all any good to hide behind any "motives" either.

He does have many venue's but up against hundreds of SA members there is no way he'll be able to get his facts our to the story against a "machine" like this. Thanks for a civil discussion btw.

:)

That's not true at all, and your saying so betrays your lack of understanding. People still face the same problem they had getting into e-gold, Pecunix LR and now bitcoin. If you can't pay in cash, you can't get in. The auctions like Mt Gox serve a different function and are no competition to an exchanger. You might hear people refer to Gox, TH et al as "exchangers" but they are really not exchanging at all. The exchanger is Dwolla or Paxum. Mt Gox is the auction where traders meet. There is no exchange of fiat to digital currency there. Nobody at Gox will hold your hand through a WU, wire or other payment. You have to already have the DC when you get to Gox, or you can't trade there.

I'm not so sure. I think he can get his side out, which he still has not done so with regards to the Pattaya controversy (NOT the pedo stuff, just the destination and conflict of interest). I think this new revelation about mortgage fraud is really interesting and it needs to be discussed amongst the community if this is someone that we want being the face of Bitcoin (which to this point, he has been). As I said before, the media will love mentioning that the face behind bitcoin is a convicted fraudster (if it is the same Bruce, which at this point looks likely) and that's not something we need.

I'm not from SA, but I found it linked on here and I have to say I've enjoyed the site. Those guys haven't invented or fabricated anything really, they've just posted things that Bruce himself has put out there. Sure, the jump to pedo status was a bit unwarranted, but the rest of the stuff is plainly information that's publicly available.

Whatever one wants to say or not say about Bruce nothing about this makes the bitcoin community look good and I would ask everyone to cease commenting on it.  I think everyone getting all worked up about this don't have enough going on in their lives and need their minute of Entertainment Tonight on bitcointalk.

Whatever one wants to say or not say about Bruce nothing about this makes the bitcoin community look good and I would ask everyone to cease commenting on it.  I think everyone getting all worked up about this don't have enough going on in their lives and need their minute of Entertainment Tonight on bitcointalk.

What if we fork the chain, start BruceCoins, and then we can have coins that are all Bruce all day?  Would that be an acceptable compromise?

What if we fork the chain, start BruceCoins, and then we can have coins that are all Bruce all day?  Would that be an acceptable compromise?

Didn't any of you wonder how Bruce and Ed were able to afford their Manhattan penthouse and 10k/month office despite not having jobs?

This is sickening me.  I am issuing a challenge to non-trolls in this forum to step up and put some support behind Bruce.  He's not perfect, but he's our de facto spokesperson, and having his name dragged through the mud makes us all look bad.  For the sake of Bitcoins, stand behind Bruce Wagner.


Bruce hasn't done anything wrong.  He's not a scammer, a rapist, a pedophile, or any of that stuff people are accusing him of.  He's doing his best for the community and we should be thanking him.

It is nice that you give him the benefit of the doubt, but perhaps you should read one of the many threads full of very real evidence, showing that Bruce is, in fact, a scammer. He gave a nice attempt at glossing it over, saying that he was overwhelmed and fell behind and then got sued...but then he didn't pony up the money, and fled so it is worth all of nothing.

I will not support someone who cannot stand themselves. He has done nothing but dig himself deeper with his foolish explanations and threats, and now the worm is out of the box. I feel for him, but who tries to become the public face of anything as a scammer/manwhore? You reap what you sow.

Obviously something got under your skin  nanaimogold otherwise you wouldn't be writing 4 paragraphs on this "the pile of crap" forum . I have no idea who you are and I don't really care who you are  I only care  if you  are part of the mybitcoinscam scandal as the majority of people think you are -  in that case you should be shot in the head and put in  18 foot hole and pissed on. So what part did you play in it why don't you stop "wagging the dog " with Bruce and tell us what you had to do with it?  just pack up your bags if you don't want any part of this forum?

It is nice that you give him the benefit of the doubt, but perhaps you should read one of the many threads full of very real evidence, showing that Bruce is, in fact, a scammer. He gave a nice attempt at glossing it over, saying that he was overwhelmed and fell behind and then got sued...but then he didn't pony up the money, and fled so it is worth all of nothing.

Didn't any of you wonder how Bruce and Ed were able to afford their Manhattan penthouse and 10k/month office despite not having jobs?

I don't think it's particularly fair to imply that Bruce and Ed afford their penthouse solely through scamming based on no evidence, when there's a lot of evidence of another 'revenue stream'.

I read 3 pages of this and this is what I conclude.

At this point, I don't even care if Bruce is a pedophile.

This entire conversation is sick.  His desire is outta control, he has absolutely no mindfulness in distancing Bitcoin from Pattaya, and there is good reason to believe that his desires are linked with the MyBitcoin scandal.

Think of Bruce as an investment correlated with Bitcoin.  At this point, would you invest in Bruce?  Would you invest all your trust, your money, your BTC investment with Bruce?

Hell no, not me.  I do NOT trust him.  If you knew all this about a person with whom you were about to conduct business with on the marketplace section, would you buy from him?

Again, hell no, not me.  And if he came on my property, I'd grab a bat.

If you're all rational, you will put Bruce in the dark corner of the Bitcoin basement with all the other scammers and bad publicity and run far, far away.

A good con artist will charm the pants off you in person, on TV, etc.  That's what makes them good.

But, they can only be good for so long.  Let's move on from this shmuck.

Edit:  Seriously, you guys want a dude that will pay thousands of dollars to fuck in another country?  Think of the impulsive nature of such a person and the exaggerations Bruce has made recently regarding Bitcoin.  A cruise was the big conference news?  You all want to go on a cruise with Captain Bruce?

Only on the Bitcoin forums will you see a post condemning fraudsters with a link to an admitted pyramid scheme in the sig.

Hey now, nothing wrong with pyramid schemes if everyone involved knows that's the way it works and is transparent about it. Just like any other sort of gambling. Pyramid schemes only troubling when they are sold as legitimate investment opportunities and no one realizes they are getting paid with other suckers money.

rainingbitcoins would never understand a bitcoin pyramid rules even if they were very well explained.
Him and the rest of the SA mofo's are just too dumb. All they can do is use google, read titles and flash accusations.
Maybe the #bitcoin-police should start digging the real names of these dudes and then would be where the fun would start, because i bet most of them are just snitches, criminals who snitch on others in exchange for free-passes for their own crimes.

rainingbitcoins would never understand a bitcoin pyramid rules even if they were very well explained.
Him and the rest of the SA mofo's are just too dumb. All they can do is use google, read titles and flash accusations.
Maybe the #bitcoin-police should start digging the real names of these dudes and then would be where the fun would start, because i bet most of them are just snitches, criminals who snitch on others in exchange for free-passes for their own crimes.

Bruce, you posted the email addresses publically without any obfuscation.  They now have been scraped and will be spammed to death.

fair game, anytime you email anyone, always expect they will reveal it.

uhhh, no. If you all had brains you would be profusely thanking the SA folks for doing the due diligence this forum never did. Exposing scammers and removing their influence from the community is a good thing, not a bad thing. (Even if the SA folks think it's hilarious to call bitcoin itself a scam).

As far as my other point, you are right, there is no desire on their part to understand the difference between a pyramid scam - that involves deception, and a pyramid /game/ which involves transparency where everyone involved knows where they are on the list and the fact that the vast majority of players never get paid. Personnaly, I generally go to the casino if I want to gamble, but they are two very different things. But whatever, haters gonna hate - still grateful for their work around exposing Bruce and I hope they can help get to the bottom of the mybitcoin fiasco.

Common decency?

I'd happily pay the somethingawful fee if I could use BTC.  In fact, I would happily donate to them as a token of my appreciation if I could do so in BTC.  I'm damn sure not going to give them a link to my PayPal or credit card info for free.

Hey SA Goons (and I mean that as a good thing...) check out that bitpay plugable payment app or whatever it is called would ya?

Before I saw this - I too mentioned I'd happily pay if they accepted in bitcoins.  I don't have a CC - and paypal is a complete pain in the arse for me.
Somehow I think they would get quite an influx of funding if they accepted bitcoin - but perhaps they wouldn't be so pleased with the type of people joining? ;)

Before I saw this - I too mentioned I'd happily pay if they accepted in bitcoins.  I don't have a CC - and paypal is a complete pain in the arse for me.
Somehow I think they would get quite an influx of funding if they accepted bitcoin - but perhaps they wouldn't be so pleased with the type of people joining? ;)

What are they supposed to do with Bitcoins once they acquire them? Try to flip them for the USD needed to run the forums on the untrustworthy sites mtgox or TradeHill? How, in that sense, is accepting Bitcoin for fund a service that needs US dollars actually 'funding'?

Flipping them on an exchange is one option - but they don't have to 'acquire' them.  There are at least 2 merchant service providers which do immediate conversion.
Are you saying you wouldn't trust any new business in the bitcoin world? It's not like you're using them as a bank and holding large amounts of funds with them for an extended period.

Ideally - yes you'd acquire them and flip them on an exchange - but unless you also want to be a bitcoin speculator (which quite rightly most merchants wouldn't), then the price instability is currently a problem.

In the mean time - services such as btcinch and bit-pay make this unnecessary.

I have no problem with SA or other merchants deciding the infrastructure and various bitcoin businesses aren't yet proven enough for them to feel comfortable with - but I see this as an argument against 'bitcoin right now', not bitcoin itself - and this would similarly have been the case for things such as paypal in the beginning.

A business or merchant? Sure I would trust them. Another untrusted exchange? Hell no, given the acceptance of scams and history of exchange problems and scams as made apparent by these forums, it is easy to see that there are no 'trustworthy' exchanges, especially given the anonymous nature of many of them.

A business or merchant? Sure I would trust them. Another untrusted exchange? Hell no, given the acceptance of scams and history of exchange problems and scams as made apparent by these forums, it is easy to see that there are no 'trustworthy' exchanges, especially given the anonymous nature of many of them.

But go ahead and throw away free money if you like.  I would have expect that the SA'ers who run the show, at least, would be smarter than that though.

I'd join SA if they took Bitcoin. That's at least 3 people I've seen offer to join. $30 SA could make right now if they took Bitcoin. Though I am curious if they'd rook us for more lulz instead of seeing an opportunity to gain more users (and money). I can see a segment of the userbase preferring to point and laugh like Nelson (from the Simpsons). "HA HA!" That would be unfortunate because I found their site pretty fun and helpful during the time of my disagreement with Bitmole.

Also, I don't think we're all that interested in recruiting off the 3rd most retarded forum on the internet.

SA makes more off of IWC in a week than all the members here could put in.  Also, I don't think we're all that interested in recruiting off the 3rd most retarded forum on the internet.

 Also, I don't think we're all that interested in recruiting off the 3rd most retarded forum on the internet.

SA makes more off of IWC in a week than all the members here could put in.  Also, I don't think we're all that interested in recruiting off the 3rd most retarded forum on the internet.

I'm not clear on why exchanges such as mtgox and tradehill are not considered reasonably trustworthy.
I had a small amount on deposit with mtgox during their major security issue - and from my perspective it was resolved pretty well.  Security breaches and information disclosures from major corporations happen all the time - and yet perhaps because of their sheer scale, their reputation doesn't seem to suffer as much as mtgox's has.

Mtgox were not only reasonably communicative about what was going on - but provided compensation in the form of temporary reduced fees + free yubikeys for those affected. 

My problem with mtgox at the moment is that they don't appear to be engineered for high volume trading.
It's apparent that during higher volume trading both mtgoxlive and the manual trading interface become unresponsive. 
I suspect that this is a lack of concurrency in the programming - and may even be contributing to the overall price instability. People can't get in to execute their desired trades at the times they most want to! 

I do however trust that they have a (belatedly) strong security focus, and a profitable business model as evidenced by their ability to take on the books of bitomat.pl and compensate their users.

Major corporations have things like "PCI compliance"

and "hardware firewalls".

How am I supposed to trust that mtgox or Tradehill won't have another break-in and just run with the money?

Seriously, the operations are all pretty much 'two guys in an apartment'.

Bitcoin offers no incentive for businesses right now, and with the risk and hassle it is hardly 'free money'

at least one exchange seems to:

  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=24802.0

Maybe SA can dig at it a little to see if they are lying.  (Should be my job, but I'm lazy.)

Ya know what seems to me to be a bit on the 'tard side though?  Giving your CC info out to a lot of organizations.  SA not the least of them.

Yeah. God forbid you use your credit card for what it's intended for. Talk about the 'tard side...

Three times in the last year, my roommate and I have both found our ATM/debit cards locked out, and a few days later we get new ones in the mail, along with a letter basically saying that the cards were compromised, some hacker stole them from a merchant we shop at, and advising us to be careful about where we spend, and in particular most internet stores have very poor security.

My roommate and I do a shared budget and the way we shuffle things is kinda specific. First day of the month the full amount of the rent comes out of his bank account. All of the bills are paid in full out of mine as they come over the month, along with all the food.

The only two places my roommate's card had ever been used in two out of the three cases where the bank found his card was among a list of stolen numbers were...

The bank, and the largest chain of gas stations in the state.

Yeah. God forbid you use your credit card for what it's intended for. Talk about the 'tard side...

...
I have also had my card skimmed at a gas station. Frankly, I don't give a flying fuck who steals my credit card number as long as I am not on the hook for it.

Exactly...As a loose rule, you hand it to the stupidest, poorest and youngest/most irresponsible people in society every time you use it. They are the ones working as cashiers. The internet is no different.

I have also had my card skimmed at a gas station. Frankly, I don't give a flying fuck who steals my credit card number as long as I am not on the hook for it.

Ya, I thoroughly enjoyed the hours I spent on the phone with Visa when that happened to me.  I just hope it happens again and again so I have someone to talk to and won't be so lonely.

We actually have never had the cards used fraudulently. There's never transactions our bank has to eat. They find out some numbers may have been compromised and proactively mark the WHOLE LOT as stolen.

I give a flying fuck because the last time that happened we were just about out of food and needed to go grocery shopping and had no way to pay for groceries. The grocery store and the bank are in 100% opposite directions and the bank doesn't even have a branch on the bus route. I had to borrow cash from a neighbor.

1. Never use cards or electronic banking again.
2. Stuff your mattress full of cash, and buy a pistol.
3. Don't worry about the big bad skimmers taking all your credit.
4. ? ? ?

You can live in a fucking hole, or you can use your resources for what they were intended.

please understand the internet has not line to cross in the area of morality. "decency" is mostly non existent here on the internet.

Sorry SA is a lot more secure and trustworthy than your gas station apparently, because i've never heard of anyone hacking SA and stealing credit cards.

Sounds like you have some pretty shitty judgement on where to spend your money and buy gas.

Sorry SA is a lot more secure and trustworthy than your gas station apparently, because i've never heard of anyone hacking SA and stealing credit cards.

Sounds like you have some pretty shitty judgement on where to spend your money and buy gas.

I caution people about the gas station near the rental car return of IAD.  But I cannot say for sure that that is where mine got nicked...the people who helpfully hold my USD form of money did not see fit to bless me with that kind of info.  I use greenbacks for shady deals (like buying gas) these days.

And I would use BTC for shady internet related stuff like SA.  Just because you nobody has poked you yet (to the best of your knowledge) does not mean that you have not dropped your trousers and assumed the position.

SA's been around since the late '90s. It's not quite the same as some fly-by-night guy on a forum selling a $3000 luxury Bitcoin wristwatch that you pay upfront for and don't use escrow.

Besides, spending time on the phone with Visa or your bank to get your money back is way better than someone telling you "lol free market, bitch. shoulda been more careful" and never getting a penny back.

Madhatter and nanaimogold are obviously scumbags.  That doesn't really help your case though, Bruce.

I think it'd be best for Bitcoin if you stepped out of the spotlight for now, and gave others a chance to step up.  We need a chance to diversify and decentralize the Bitcoin "PR department".  Just take a break from your promotional activities for a little while and wait for the air to clear.

Just to clarify; Bruce's referrence to "fugitives" couldn't possibly include me.

My real name, address and telephone number are in the whois record. I might be the easist man to locate in all of the bitcoin realm.

Nanaimo Gold is now the world's oldest running exchanger of digital currencies, the first exchanger of bitcoin and the only exchanger to run through the entire lifespan of bitcoin without a hack or more than a brief downtime.

A fugitve could not accomplish that.

#bitcoin-otc hasnt been hacked  :)

Every time I reread this thread I laugh my ass off. Also, half of the people in this thread are MIA.