Two interesting emails I received today...

[JeffK]

i would have to say i am slightly relived that he is not a pedophile. However I don't think we really ever needed a "spokesmen".

I also think all the shit people are giving him is uncalled for. Although i didn't see as much as you would think, but i still don't particularly care for it.

Bruce, in his own words, describes how to pick out a dancing boy and pay their mama-san in a post quoted above - it still looks suspect. Also, we have dug up quite a bit of evidence that he was a serial fraudster, both before and after he met Edward.


note: Also from SomethingAwful

[Jalum]

Illinois Foreclosure Rescue Company Fined and Shut Down
Wednesday, April 19 2006 12:27
Following a lawsuit brought by Illinois Cook County State's Attorney Richard Devine, a fraudulent mortgage lending company has been fined $250,000 and banned from doing business in Illinois.

Bold Funding, Inc. and its owner-operator, Bruce Wagner, were found to have violated Illinois law by falsely promising to secure private funding for loans to save the homes of persons who were in foreclosure for a fee ranging from $300 to $6,670.

In Civil Court on April 18, 2006, Judge Julia Nowicki ordered Bold Funding and Bruce Wagner to refund $115,858 in application fees to 74 former customers who never received any funding from the Defendants. Bold Funding and Bruce Wagner were also fined $250,000, and the Defendants were permanently banned from providing any services in Illinois related to residential mortgage loans.

"The taking of monies from vulnerable homeowners in foreclosure under false pretenses is reprehensibleX," Devine said. "Any company which purports to help homeowners who are in foreclosure must follow the law and fulfill its promises to assist its customers."

In 2004, Bold Funding maintained its "headquarters" at a commercial post office box at 40 E. Chicago Ave., Chicago, Illinois. Bold Funding also operated a website at http://www.boldfunding.com and sponsored hundreds of commercials on local and out-of-state radio stations. On its website and radio commercials, Bold Funding claimed that it could save homes from foreclosure even after a Sheriff s sale. Homeowners in foreclosure sent thousands of dollars to Bold Funding under the belief that Bold Funding would secure funding to refinance their mortgages and save their homes. The Defendants did not arrange or provide any funding. Neither Bold Funding nor Bruce Wagner ever possessed an Illinois residential mortgage broker's or lender's license.

On November 10, 2004, the Cook County State's Attorney's Office Consumer Fraud Division filed its lawsuit against Bold Funding and Bruce Wagner charging the Defendants with violating the Illinois Consumer Fraud and Deceptive Business Practices Act. This lawsuit was initiated after the State's Attorney's Office received numerous complaints from citizens regarding Bold Funding. Bold Funding and Bruce Wagner could not identify anyone who actually received any funding through the efforts of the Defendants. The court heard testimony from one victim who testified that she lost her home, and another victim who testified that he had to file for bankruptcy to save his home after the Defendants failed to obtain funding for him.

Consumers with questions or complaints about other foreclosure "rescue" businesses may contact the Cook County State's Attorney's Office, Consumer Fraud Division, at (312) 603-8700, or online at http://www.statesattorney.org.

Didn't any of you wonder how Bruce and Ed were able to afford their Manhattan penthouse and 10k/month office despite not having jobs?

[bitstarter]

You have to admit where does the line stop with "bs" and the truth -  as you say and what kind of credibility can a forum like that have when you start blasting someone with really bad accusations with basically no evidence or the person can't even defend themselves? And your ok with associating with people who do this and do this on another forum around a great technology as bitcoin?  and who does this for fun?

If "mobilizing" is against the rules if I were to ask let me see a raise of hands how many people on this thread are from SA I bet a good portion would be from there  and this isn't "breaking the rules"?

I don't know about the rest of you but there is no creditably from ANYONE from SA  member and who is also a member of this forum to go around accusing others for the "fun of it". Just my humble opinion.

Are you suggesting that we're going back in time and creating articles 5 years ago to discredit someone?  Whether or not any one of us is trustworthy is kind of besides the point.  The information is available for anyone willing to look for it.

Also, Bruce has an account here and is CEO of a worldwide television network.  That's pretty much the definition of 'public figure' and he has multiple avenues to defend himself.

Not suggesting that at all. But then you are suggesting you ( SA ) has never been wrong either. I don't have a beef with SA I just want more transparency so the other forum members who don't know who SA is  can know who is associated with whom so they can make a well thought out opinion . I'm not taking a side either - who knows maybe Bruce has done what you all are accusing him of doing but it doesn't do you all any good to hide behind any "motives" either.

He does have many venue's but up against hundreds of SA members there is no way he'll be able to get his facts our to the story against a "machine" like this. Thanks for a civil discussion btw.

[JeffK]

You have to admit where does the line stop with "bs" and the truth -  as you say and what kind of credibility can a forum like that have when you start blasting someone with really bad accusations with basically no evidence or the person can't even defend themselves? And your ok with associating with people who do this and do this on another forum around a great technology as bitcoin?  and who does this for fun?

If "mobilizing" is against the rules if I were to ask let me see a raise of hands how many people on this thread are from SA I bet a good portion would be from there  and this isn't "breaking the rules"?

I don't know about the rest of you but there is no creditably from ANYONE from SA  member and who is also a member of this forum to go around accusing others for the "fun of it". Just my humble opinion.

Are you suggesting that we're going back in time and creating articles 5 years ago to discredit someone?  Whether or not any one of us is trustworthy is kind of besides the point.  The information is available for anyone willing to look for it.

Also, Bruce has an account here and is CEO of a worldwide television network.  That's pretty much the definition of 'public figure' and he has multiple avenues to defend himself.

So we'll stop playing a game of 'our facts vs his' and play 'post the court documents and screenshots' when we get all the shit we're digging up organized
Not suggesting that at all. But then you are suggesting you ( SA ) has never been wrong either. I don't have a beef with SA I just want more transparency so the other forum members who don't know who SA is  can know who is associated with whom so they can make a well thought out opinion . I'm not taking a side either - who knows maybe Bruce has done what you all are accusing him of doing but it doesn't do you all any good to hide behind any "motives" either.

He does have many venue's but up against hundreds of SA members there is no way he'll be able to get his facts our to the story against a "machine" like this. Thanks for a civil discussion btw.

[BlockHash]

You have to admit where does the line stop with "bs" and the truth -  as you say and what kind of credibility can a forum like that have when you start blasting someone with really bad accusations with basically no evidence or the person can't even defend themselves? And your ok with associating with people who do this and do this on another forum around a great technology as bitcoin?  and who does this for fun?

If "mobilizing" is against the rules if I were to ask let me see a raise of hands how many people on this thread are from SA I bet a good portion would be from there  and this isn't "breaking the rules"?

I don't know about the rest of you but there is no creditably from ANYONE from SA  member and who is also a member of this forum to go around accusing others for the "fun of it". Just my humble opinion.

Are you suggesting that we're going back in time and creating articles 5 years ago to discredit someone?  Whether or not any one of us is trustworthy is kind of besides the point.  The information is available for anyone willing to look for it.

Also, Bruce has an account here and is CEO of a worldwide television network.  That's pretty much the definition of 'public figure' and he has multiple avenues to defend himself.

Not suggesting that at all. But then you are suggesting you ( SA ) has never been wrong either. I don't have a beef with SA I just want more transparency so the other forum members who don't know who SA is  can know who is associated with whom so they can make a well thought out opinion . I'm not taking a side either - who knows maybe Bruce has done what you all are accusing him of doing but it doesn't do you all any good to hide behind any "motives" either.

He does have many venue's but up against hundreds of SA members there is no way he'll be able to get his facts our to the story against a "machine" like this. Thanks for a civil discussion btw.

I'm not so sure. I think he can get his side out, which he still has not done so with regards to the Pattaya controversy (NOT the pedo stuff, just the destination and conflict of interest). I think this new revelation about mortgage fraud is really interesting and it needs to be discussed amongst the community if this is someone that we want being the face of Bitcoin (which to this point, he has been). As I said before, the media will love mentioning that the face behind bitcoin is a convicted fraudster (if it is the same Bruce, which at this point looks likely) and that's not something we need.

I'm not from SA, but I found it linked on here and I have to say I've enjoyed the site. Those guys haven't invented or fabricated anything really, they've just posted things that Bruce himself has put out there. Sure, the jump to pedo status was a bit unwarranted, but the rest of the stuff is plainly information that's publicly available.

[indio007]

That's not true at all, and your saying so betrays your lack of understanding. People still face the same problem they had getting into e-gold, Pecunix LR and now bitcoin. If you can't pay in cash, you can't get in. The auctions like Mt Gox serve a different function and are no competition to an exchanger. You might hear people refer to Gox, TH et al as "exchangers" but they are really not exchanging at all. The exchanger is Dwolla or Paxum. Mt Gox is the auction where traders meet. There is no exchange of fiat to digital currency there. Nobody at Gox will hold your hand through a WU, wire or other payment. You have to already have the DC when you get to Gox, or you can't trade there.

First people don't need cash to get into bitcoin, they need hardware.
Second you don't exchange BTC for $ . You exchange BTC for Liberty Dollars then Liberty Dollars to $.
Do you really think there is a substantial difference between using  1 companies that uses 2 steps to exchange Bitcoins to $ versus 2 companies that use 1 step each?
There isn't. The end result is the same.
It's a fact they are your competition.
If someone uses Tradehill + Paxum or Mtgox + Dwolla they aren't using your service.
Bitcoin has the the potential to displace your core business which are other e-currencies. Your market share of BTC to $ is infinitesimal.
Did you really think you were going to post some drivel and achieve something? An outright denial would have been better.
But everyone would have seen right through that wouldn't they ?
You seem to be just another person whose legacy technology is getting displaced and throwing a fit.If you had the juice you would just go right from BTC to $ but I suspect your capital is tied up in the other currencies. Too bad for you.

[JeffK]

You have to admit where does the line stop with "bs" and the truth -  as you say and what kind of credibility can a forum like that have when you start blasting someone with really bad accusations with basically no evidence or the person can't even defend themselves? And your ok with associating with people who do this and do this on another forum around a great technology as bitcoin?  and who does this for fun?

If "mobilizing" is against the rules if I were to ask let me see a raise of hands how many people on this thread are from SA I bet a good portion would be from there  and this isn't "breaking the rules"?

I don't know about the rest of you but there is no creditably from ANYONE from SA  member and who is also a member of this forum to go around accusing others for the "fun of it". Just my humble opinion.

Are you suggesting that we're going back in time and creating articles 5 years ago to discredit someone?  Whether or not any one of us is trustworthy is kind of besides the point.  The information is available for anyone willing to look for it.

Also, Bruce has an account here and is CEO of a worldwide television network.  That's pretty much the definition of 'public figure' and he has multiple avenues to defend himself.

Not suggesting that at all. But then you are suggesting you ( SA ) has never been wrong either. I don't have a beef with SA I just want more transparency so the other forum members who don't know who SA is  can know who is associated with whom so they can make a well thought out opinion . I'm not taking a side either - who knows maybe Bruce has done what you all are accusing him of doing but it doesn't do you all any good to hide behind any "motives" either.

He does have many venue's but up against hundreds of SA members there is no way he'll be able to get his facts our to the story against a "machine" like this. Thanks for a civil discussion btw.

I'm not so sure. I think he can get his side out, which he still has not done so with regards to the Pattaya controversy (NOT the pedo stuff, just the destination and conflict of interest). I think this new revelation about mortgage fraud is really interesting and it needs to be discussed amongst the community if this is someone that we want being the face of Bitcoin (which to this point, he has been). As I said before, the media will love mentioning that the face behind bitcoin is a convicted fraudster (if it is the same Bruce, which at this point looks likely) and that's not something we need.

I'm not from SA, but I found it linked on here and I have to say I've enjoyed the site. Those guys haven't invented or fabricated anything really, they've just posted things that Bruce himself has put out there. Sure, the jump to pedo status was a bit unwarranted, but the rest of the stuff is plainly information that's publicly available.

This is a PR nightmare, anyway it is handled - distancing from Bruce seems to be the safe bet though

[ctoon6]

Whatever one wants to say or not say about Bruce nothing about this makes the bitcoin community look good and I would ask everyone to cease commenting on it.  I think everyone getting all worked up about this don't have enough going on in their lives and need their minute of Entertainment Tonight on bitcointalk.

this would be similar to if the president said he was a homosexual, if you supported homosexuality or not, you would not like misrepresentation of the US as a whole. it may or may not play out like that, but anything is possible.

[FAtlas]

Whatever one wants to say or not say about Bruce nothing about this makes the bitcoin community look good and I would ask everyone to cease commenting on it.  I think everyone getting all worked up about this don't have enough going on in their lives and need their minute of Entertainment Tonight on bitcointalk.

What if we fork the chain, start BruceCoins, and then we can have coins that are all Bruce all day?  Would that be an acceptable compromise?

[ctoon6]

Whatever one wants to say or not say about Bruce nothing about this makes the bitcoin community look good and I would ask everyone to cease commenting on it.  I think everyone getting all worked up about this don't have enough going on in their lives and need their minute of Entertainment Tonight on bitcointalk.

What if we fork the chain, start BruceCoins, and then we can have coins that are all Bruce all day?  Would that be an acceptable compromise?

i think bruces presence rubs all over cryptocurrencies in general, as they are all based almost completely off bitcoin.

[wolftaur]

What if we fork the chain, start BruceCoins, and then we can have coins that are all Bruce all day?  Would that be an acceptable compromise?

So, what, 69 coins per block?

[Anonymous]

If Bruce actually cared about bitcoin he would do the honourable thing.

[nanaimogold]

Didn't any of you wonder how Bruce and Ed were able to afford their Manhattan penthouse and 10k/month office despite not having jobs?

I surely do.

I also wonder who paid for those 25K bitcoins he complains of losing. I know some people, including Adrianne Jeffries and her office staff bought a few on a lark, but that doesn't begin to account for who owns the bulk of that load.

Who are these friends? Do they like to travel to Bruce's bitcoin conferences? Perhaps employ a few boys (boys means men) for some stinky fun?

I'm not going to beat around the bush.

I submit that Bruce was selling sex tourism and laundering the proceeds though MBC. Something went wrong with his plan and it became easier to just steal the bitcoin rather than follow through. Or maybe his partner Tom/d Williams double crossed him.

Either way, there is still some malignant tumor that needs excising from this "community".

Somebody please bring some air freshener.

[RandyFolds]

This is sickening me.  I am issuing a challenge to non-trolls in this forum to step up and put some support behind Bruce.  He's not perfect, but he's our de facto spokesperson, and having his name dragged through the mud makes us all look bad.  For the sake of Bitcoins, stand behind Bruce Wagner.


Bruce hasn't done anything wrong.  He's not a scammer, a rapist, a pedophile, or any of that stuff people are accusing him of.  He's doing his best for the community and we should be thanking him.

It is nice that you give him the benefit of the doubt, but perhaps you should read one of the many threads full of very real evidence, showing that Bruce is, in fact, a scammer. He gave a nice attempt at glossing it over, saying that he was overwhelmed and fell behind and then got sued...but then he didn't pony up the money, and fled so it is worth all of nothing.

I will not support someone who cannot stand themselves. He has done nothing but dig himself deeper with his foolish explanations and threats, and now the worm is out of the box. I feel for him, but who tries to become the public face of anything as a scammer/manwhore? You reap what you sow.

[bosschair]

This is sickening me.  I am issuing a challenge to non-trolls in this forum to step up and put some support behind Bruce.  He's not perfect, but he's our de facto spokesperson, and having his name dragged through the mud makes us all look bad.  For the sake of Bitcoins, stand behind Bruce Wagner.


Bruce hasn't done anything wrong.  He's not a scammer, a rapist, a pedophile, or any of that stuff people are accusing him of.  He's doing his best for the community and we should be thanking him.

It is nice that you give him the benefit of the doubt, but perhaps you should read one of the many threads full of very real evidence, showing that Bruce is, in fact, a scammer. He gave a nice attempt at glossing it over, saying that he was overwhelmed and fell behind and then got sued...but then he didn't pony up the money, and fled so it is worth all of nothing.

I will not support someone who cannot stand themselves. He has done nothing but dig himself deeper with his foolish explanations and threats, and now the worm is out of the box. I feel for him, but who tries to become the public face of anything as a scammer/manwhore? You reap what you sow.

You're absolutely right.  A lot of info has come out since I posted that message, and I'm still digesting it all.  Our Bruce is looking dirtier and dirtier as time goes on.

[the joint]

I read 3 pages of this and this is what I conclude.

At this point, I don't even care if Bruce is a pedophile.

This entire conversation is sick.  His desire is outta control, he has absolutely no mindfulness in distancing Bitcoin from Pattaya, and there is good reason to believe that his desires are linked with the MyBitcoin scandal.

Think of Bruce as an investment correlated with Bitcoin.  At this point, would you invest in Bruce?  Would you invest all your trust, your money, your BTC investment with Bruce?

Hell no, not me.  I do NOT trust him.  If you knew all this about a person with whom you were about to conduct business with on the marketplace section, would you buy from him?

Again, hell no, not me.  And if he came on my property, I'd grab a bat.

If you're all rational, you will put Bruce in the dark corner of the Bitcoin basement with all the other scammers and bad publicity and run far, far away.

A good con artist will charm the pants off you in person, on TV, etc.  That's what makes them good.

But, they can only be good for so long.  Let's move on from this shmuck.

Edit:  Seriously, you guys want a dude that will pay thousands of dollars to fuck in another country?  Think of the impulsive nature of such a person and the exaggerations Bruce has made recently regarding Bitcoin.  A cruise was the big conference news?  You all want to go on a cruise with Captain Bruce? 

[nanaimogold]

nanaimogold,
Why don't you disclose the fact that adoption of bitcoin as the de facto digital currency destroys your business?

Your self-interest destroys any credibility you might have about bitcoin considering your financial interest is diametrically opposed to it.

That's not true at all, and your saying so betrays your lack of understanding. People still face the same problem they had getting into e-gold, Pecunix LR and now bitcoin. If you can't pay in cash, you can't get in. The auctions like Mt Gox serve a different function and are no competition to an exchanger. You might hear people refer to Gox, TH et al as "exchangers" but they are really not exchanging at all. The exchanger is Dwolla or Paxum. Mt Gox is the auction where traders meet. There is no exchange of fiat to digital currency there. Nobody at Gox will hold your hand through a WU, wire or other payment. You have to already have the DC when you get to Gox, or you can't trade there.

I hold bitcoin that is decreasing in value because of this scandal, but it's something that has needed to come to a head for almost a year. Bruce was asked nicely then to not mix up his hobby of boy fucking into our new payment system. He feels entitled to goatse everyone who looks into bitcoin and has done huge damage to us for all this time. People don't want to associate with a staid subject like payment systems when it fronted up by a self appointed spokesman who clearly does not understand it and uses it only to further the above mentioned hobby.

psy > U mad bro? Maybe because people have more evidence that connects you with the MyBitcoin Scam than you have against the ones you accuse?

psy > If you are really that aggravated because of someone falsely accusing you, then you should be the first to hold back your horses before accusing others without evidence.


As for "accusing" him, I did no such thing. I pointed out that he was inviting forum users, who are largely minors, to conference in a bath house without revealing that fact. I did no accusing. I offered the opinion that this tactic is sneaky. I have not changed my mind about that.

Bruce did all the accusing of himself. I think he is so lost in his sin that he does not even recognise it as such. To him the only thing wrong is the existance of a law that opposes his luring and sexual interference.

He shit his dirty felching smegma on my life's work. He brought this gaggle of supporters in with him from some bath house forum of the underground. The real payment professionals abandon the bitcoin ship in disgust. We need a conservative educated in finance to speak for the system, not a fruity dumfuk who can't get it into his head that bitcoin was developed to address the need for anonymous non-reversible payments made at long distance. Instead he wants to mold it into "meeting up" in coffee shops. We have no need for that, we have silver coins and fiat dollars already. He spent so much time trying to make bitcoin some extention of "USD" - it took people on this forum months to get him to stop doing that. He published online that my own system was some extention of USD without any idea of the tacit agreemnt he was creating for me in this.

He simply DOES NOT GET IT. But he does get excited boys to "meet up" for what we have recently learned to be a fact.

And one more point I need to make especially to the liar hugolp. I have NEVER had more than one nick on this or ANY forum I have used. I rarely even look at the pile of crap that this forum has become. I wish I had never even reigstered here and am ashamed to be recognised in the same species as you clawing screeching filthy lying gaggle of immoral nancys.

Yeah, I'm mad bro. I've spent almost ten years working what a bunch of sociopaths has completely defiled in mere months.

Obviously something got under your skin  nanaimogold otherwise you wouldn't be writing 4 paragraphs on this "the pile of crap" forum . I have no idea who you are and I don't really care who you are  I only care  if you  are part of the mybitcoinscam scandal as the majority of people think you are -  in that case you should be shot in the head and put in  18 foot hole and pissed on. So what part did you play in it why don't you stop "wagging the dog " with Bruce and tell us what you had to do with it?  just pack up your bags if you don't want any part of this forum?

BROOCE!!!!

Another one! How many accounts do you have on this board?

Just keep digging boy.

[wolftaur]

It is nice that you give him the benefit of the doubt, but perhaps you should read one of the many threads full of very real evidence, showing that Bruce is, in fact, a scammer. He gave a nice attempt at glossing it over, saying that he was overwhelmed and fell behind and then got sued...but then he didn't pony up the money, and fled so it is worth all of nothing.

Don't forget, the he got overwhelmed argument was rejected by the court because in the court filings he couldn't actually provide evidence he helped a single client. Also don't forget he didn't have the license to do what he was doing in the first place, which was in and of itself extremely illegal.

[DrZaius]

Didn't any of you wonder how Bruce and Ed were able to afford their Manhattan penthouse and 10k/month office despite not having jobs?

I don't really want to bring up the whole sex thing when we've got serious mortgage fraud on the table, but Bruce and Ed are (or at least were) male escorts. Bruce has a prostitution conviction, punlman advertised their services in both Florida and New York, Bruce admits to being a sex worker in the "500 baht virgin" thread on two separate occasions (one of which was recently deleted but exists in Google's cache) and seemed very knowledgeable on how much to pay them, and Bruce even reviewed his own services through his bred33480 account.

I don't think it's particularly fair to imply that Bruce and Ed afford their penthouse solely through scamming based on no evidence, when there's a lot of evidence of another 'revenue stream'.

[wolftaur]

I don't think it's particularly fair to imply that Bruce and Ed afford their penthouse solely through scamming based on no evidence, when there's a lot of evidence of another 'revenue stream'.

No wonder he keeps saying "UP UP UP" when he's talking about Bitcoins. He's gotten confused about his market overlap.