Bitcoin Forum

Hello!

Datacoin blockchain started about two months ago. Thank you to all of you supporting Datacoin. It exists because of your support.

Now we can start developing blockchain-based web applications. Note that this feature doesn't touch sources of Datacoin daemon or qt-wallet: if you are not interested in this it you can still use Datacoins and without understanding this post. Blockchain-based web applications require a http-server that redirects HTTP requests from browser to daemon. This is implemented now with Perl (dtc_http_server.pl). Yes, I know I would have to do it using C++. I'll rewrite it later.

Why web-applications inside blockchain are good?

1. they are protected from being deleted or censored
2. they work locally and don't require a live Internet connection
3. web interface is convenient to users
4. no new technologies are required for developement: HTTP, AJAX and JSON RPC are simply linked together ;)

Datacoin HTTP server is very simple and it is intended to work locally on end-user's machine.

Types of requests supported by Datacoin local HTTP server

NB: NET can be 'dtc' or 'dtc-testnet'

1. Get data from blockchain
http://localhost:PORT/NET/get/TXHASH -> data from tx with TXHASH will be sent back (data is assumed to be in Envelope format - see envelope.proto file)

Example:
http://localhost:8080/dtc/get/40a3eb9624528008a87d9119dbed4041d45c9f6483ecd52a7b24f9c8b4fdf548

2. Call daemon's method
http://localhost:PORT/NET/rpc/METHOD(/ARGS) -> json-rpc call to daemon's METHOD will be performed and resulting json will be sent back to browser

Several arguments are possible in form arg1/arg2/arg3/...

Example:
http://localhost:8080/dtc/rpc/getblockhash/1000


NB: due to security reasons only 'getinfo', 'getmininginfo', 'getblock', 'getblockhash' and 'getrawtransaction' are supported now. Later all reading methods will be added. 'sendtoaddress' and other money-spending methods probably will be added also but some security issues are to be considered before in order to protect users from theft.

3. Call http local server's method
http://localhost:PORT/NET/lsrpc/METHOD(/ARGS) -> http server will handle this method itself (or translate to several requests to daemon).

There is only one example of lsrpc methods now: 'getenvelope'. It parses tx.data field of a given transaction as an Envelope and returns envelope in json format (without 'Data'). This method is needed to get metadata easily.

Example:
http://localhost:8080/dtc/lsrpc/getenvelope/40a3eb9624528008a87d9119dbed4041d45c9f6483ecd52a7b24f9c8b4fdf548


Demo
In order to demonstrate this in action I've sent 'Block explorer' application in transaction 40a3eb9624528008a87d9119dbed4041d45c9f6483ecd52a7b24f9c8b4fdf548. Here is an instruction on how to access it from your own computer with local HTTP server (actually this will be too difficult for 99% of users, I need to rewrite server using C++ and deliver it as a precompiled binary):

Before you start: DON'T do this on the machine with many coins!!! Setup a different user account on Windows (or Linux) or a virtual machine. There is a lot of possible bugs in this code that can lead to loss of money.

Now you are warned. Let's continue.

1. backup yout wallet.dat and protect it with password

2. git clone https://github.com/foo1inge/datacoin-browser.git

3. install all required CPAN modules (the way to do this depends from your Perl distribution, ask Perl guru if you don't know how to do this). Here is list of modules:


4. start Datacoin daemon ('getdata' RPC method is required. It was commited two weeks ago and probably you have to update your daemon).

5. cd datacoin-browser/perl/

6. perl dtc_http_server.pl --http-port=8080
This will start local HTTP server on port 8080. In order to see Datacoin testnet add "--testnet=1" option - it will connect to daemon working in testnet.

7. go to http://localhost:8080/dtc/get/40a3eb9624528008a87d9119dbed4041d45c9f6483ecd52a7b24f9c8b4fdf548

8. enjoy

You can deploy this on any machine. Here is this application deployed on Amazon EC2 (micro instance, very slow):
http://ec2-54-201-144-165.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com/dtc/get/40a3eb9624528008a87d9119dbed4041d45c9f6483ecd52a7b24f9c8b4fdf548

Blockexplorer application consists of three transactions:

40a3eb9624528008a87d9119dbed4041d45c9f6483ecd52a7b24f9c8b4fdf548 - blockexplorer.html
465ca75b6dedf70bc85db24548ee99bab776028f9295116afba4fa1e4838ff5f - blockexplorer.js
73b7c7165a51f604040e17681705a39145392691a0447266b9074a2ad9140327 - datacoin-logo.png

All these files are accessed by TXID (not by names!) the following way (snippets from blockexplorer.html):



Blockexplorer does following steps while starting:

1. getinfo RPC call (to get current height)
2. getblockhash / getblock for each block in cycle
3. getrawtransaction for each transaction
4. getenvelope for each transaction with data

All these calls are coded as ordinary AJAX in blockexplorer.html.

Important issues for web developers on how to develop applications for Datacoin

1. Start development in testnet

Testnet block explorer: http://ec2-54-201-144-165.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com:81/dtc-testnet/get/7fead7473c448b2d69d0e62354dedd59895a1ab099c1835155d83f7327c5156a

2. Never use specific IP or PORT in URLs - only relative URLs are meaningful (user can start local HTTP server on any IP:PORT).
In your HTML code instead of doing


use relative URL:


3. Use "--content-type" argument of dtc_put_file.pl script to set a "Content-type" HTTP attribute for your files.

Here is an example:

4. Use "--add_key" argument of dtc_put_file.pl script and save private key (it will be printed on screen) in a secure place in order to upate your application later.

Here is a full example:

NB: update feature isn't implemented yet :( I'm working on it now.

Datacoin development plans regarding blockchain-based web-applications:
(I don't mention here issues not related to the topic)

1. bugfixing

2. Update feature (see detailed description of update scenario in envelope.proto file)

3. Big files (more 128Kb) feature

4. C++ version of local HTTP server

5. "senddata" from local HTTP server

6. Access to P2P file sharing networks from local HTTP server (something like localhost:8080/kademlia/HASH). Needs some investigation.

Very nice to see you here! I am reading this right now and trying to understand as much as i can! Already posted the link of this on the other thread so others can see it too cause with all the spam coins it will get buried.

Edit: Very good news! I dont understand it and i would not be able to run Datacoin Local HTTP server myself but i suppose in a few days it will be more explained and i will. I lack skills.

;)

This link doesn't need any installation procedures: http://ec2-54-201-144-165.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com/dtc/get/40a3eb9624528008a87d9119dbed4041d45c9f6483ecd52a7b24f9c8b4fdf548

The thing is i dont understand exackly what this do! What i thing is that we now can find files stored immediately from the browser just with a link. If i am correct what do i do wrong:

There is a pic on block 131513. I got there and i see this : data   Browse data in another tab

I press it but i cant see the pic or the base64 of it.



P.S. Try to read the other thread. There are many questions to be answered. Maybe already answered but yeah. For example  people are asking about the fee being too big ;)

Nice, this starts to show the real possibilities of the project and how disruptive it can be.
Essentially, you can have a self contained Internet inside Datacoin.

Regarding the envelope protocol (the one defined with Google Protocol Buffers), are you planning to make any changes ? I am currently implementing the big file functionality for a website (see my sig).

I am doing all these with an external HTTP server and using JSON-RPC calls to the daemon, not the Perl browser you just posted.

On a side note, can we agree, or at least discuss about, lowering the fees for data transactions ? Since this does not require a hard fork it would be easily implemented. My motivations are as follows :
- With the current block reward model the cost of storage will go "to the moon". And this is bad for adoption (where we currently are).
- No hard fork and people with large amounts of DTC will not complain.
- Will drive adoption and awareness UP.
- Miners will receive more since (hopefully) people will spend more DTC, you can see right now the usage of the data field is minimal.

What do you think about it?

oocook5u , I'm really happy to see you and double more happy to see such great updates! :) I'm following you on git and reading your commits carefully (I know perl and a bit of c\c++). I'll clone HTTP server to more powerful machines and publish their addresses soon. It will be more comfortable for those devs who just want to try their own existing apps together with Datacoin - they don't need to install all this on their machines 'just to try', they will use external interface, and it will work much faster - t1.micro is a pain sometimes.

That's great that you're planning to add 'update' feature, and P2P linking idea is awesome. Really, I'm very excited about that, it seems like some kind of revolution both in cryptos and in storage systems.

tl;dr for those who didn't understand the whole OP post:
Now you have a possibility to get resources from Datacoin blockchain like they are hosted on your Web hosting.
You want to go to http://yoursite.com/blog.html
If your blog.html page is already stored in Datacoin blockchain and TX ID is qwertyqwerty1, you can go to http://yoursite.com/dtc/get/qwertyqwerty1 and see your page. It is higher abstraction layer built on top of Datacoin network - it was announced during release and is being implemented now.

I'll notify community when I install this server on bigger machines - it should happen today or at least tomorrow.

edited: I also heard this thing about lowering fees from many people who come to me with questions, it seems to be one of the most important Qs just now.

This.

So...
A: that allow you to easily reach your data inside the blockchain on common website.
B: you did - or are trying - to create a kind of subnet?
A whole new Internet with permanent archive hosted on your computer and futurely thousands, where you no longer rely on mainstream http/tor/i2p but use the blockchain itself as a new local/p2p hosting/browsing thing?

Which one is it? (something else than A & B?)

both A and B. Now you can easily reach your data inside blockchain, and it can be (and will be) whole new Internet stored locally and being updated every minute.

So is an intern http-like browser already functional?
Do you have a basic working example?
Just something like a hello world.block5872 this is my hello kitty pict, click here for comments.

Might buy in now if that's the case.

Any possibilities in future to go beyond static website?
Like, archive will be from start to now. Might get massive with time (but 2Tio HD is quite cheap).
But is a intern evolutive DB possible?

(Damn I've to stop watching wolf of wall street and go buy if we're up there yet)

PS: I've been distantly watching Datacoin for a while now.
Main problem is that it'is way too complex.
I managed to burn BTC using counterpartyd software for example, that's where my low level is at.
But I barely understand anything about uploading file into DTC blockchain and retrieve them.
Any centralized doc trying to become more user friendly?

Otherwise most people may just buy the minimum they need to upload what they want, but may have low appeal to invest into DTC.

PPS: yet one more question (sorry for the length)
Do you already have a decentralized DNS system NMC.bit like? (major for B-subnet adoption)

edit: not gonna invest for now. Reason = same that last time research : get mindfucked >_<
+ leader dev trying to sell his project + graph strong bear trend
Go back to my movie. There is potential, but not ready for mass adoption.

Yes i would like to se an example and maybe a guide of how to do something like this example.

Also can someone answer to my question up in this thread about the pic on that block? Can i see the pic somehow?

Datacoin logo is available instead of kittens :)
http://ec2-54-201-144-165.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com/dtc/get/73b7c7165a51f604040e17681705a39145392691a0447266b9074a2ad9140327

What do you mean 'to go beyond static website'? When oocook5u implements 'update' feature, it will be possible to update web pages and Datacoin-based sites.

Just now desktop GUI wallet doesn't have possibility to upload data, but it is pretty easy to go to https://krypte.net and do anything you want with your data.

Questions are good, please ask as much as you want - it can help other people to find answers! :)
No, Datacoin is not intended to have own DNS system - DTC is not trying to be 'all-in-one', but it can collaborate with Namecoin for DNS.

One integrated ecosystem. Bitcoin, Namecoin, Datacoin. A platform, not just a currency.  

So file browsing will also be done via Internet.  With a coin built right in.

When the personal chains arrive the files will be farmed out to the nodes.

Exactly. As I've said above, no need for trying to implement ALL features in one coin - Bitcoin can be used as 'general money', Namecoin as coordinating system (DNS), Datacoin as nosql db. I feel like we can build our own network that is like 'ordinary' Internet, maybe not so big in sense of content-size, but extremely important for technicians and scientists.

And remember: Information is money, Datacoin implements these words ;) This 'Internet' - BTC, NMC, DTC, possibly some new coins to be created soon - just imagine, it's really 'money as information'. If all goes well, you guys will see the history making here and now.


Personal chains or some kind of it can be used for content storage, i.e. main chain will contain only text data (html pages, keys, magnet links, etc), and personal chains can contain photos, voice recordings, maybe short videos and so on.

Wow! I would never thought of accomplish something like that. It seems DTC has more potential than I though at first. I wonder what else is coming! :)

Just another question, does your perl get file implementation supports both raw data and data embedded into the envelope protocol ?

Quick answer (I think oocook5u will give more detailed info): just now - no, if you want to get raw data stored by krypte.net, you should either use command-line with the daemon, or use krypte.net for downloading this data. I've just checked this. But this envelope proto really makes sense when we're talking about building 'Internet' on top of Datacoin.
Question for you: can you build these perl scripts for upload\download into kryptenet? Or maybe write your own implementation... just to avoid 'data format hell' in future.

Absolutely, in fact I am already testing a working version, just wanted to know if we (as a community) should drop the raw data and use only the envelope protocol. I personally don't have a problem keeping both formats.

I'm sure that you understand importance of format standardization. In fact, krypte.net is the only working resource which fully uses get\send data function just now. Other projects are in development, so all of them should use this standard. Oocook5u was absolutely right to release this proto and tools for it as first priority, when coin is so young and there are no many services what need to change their protocols.

Great work!

This blockchain explorer is really good : http://ec2-54-201-144-165.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com/dtc/get/40a3eb9624528008a87d9119dbed4041d45c9f6483ecd52a7b24f9c8b4fdf548

oocooku, If you want i can provide you with a better AWS instance

just noticed AJAX page loading, I've never seen this simple, but important feature in any block explorer :)

I'll bump this thread several times just to show Datacoin possibilities to the whole community. 

Easily the most innovative cryptocurrency out there.

micro-bump

Wow. Too bad I can't be online too often.

I love the idea of Datacoin!

I installed it on my server.
I run a bigger instance so it should be ok.

Here's the link to the blockexplorer updating in realtime.

http://108.161.145.4:8080/dtc/get/40a3eb9624528008a87d9119dbed4041d45c9f6483ecd52a7b24f9c8b4fdf548

most interesting

So you fixed the problem? ;)


btw i wanna ask again. On block 131513 there is a 1022 byte pic. I tried your link, previously i have tried OP's link, and at block explorer it is saying data   Browse data in another tab. Now i press it but nothing happens. Should i see the image or at least the base64 of it?

as I see, data should be in proper format (proto envelope) to be displayed in oocook's block explorer. but need to double-check that.

My implementation on krypte.net supports raw data, use this link :

https://krypte.net/dtc/txid/7713847dd7bfc65ec2fc6323f9af5df62c4ba3aafaffc3187e707c3ba221debd

This must be stalin face on a very low res  :D

EDIT: You must register in order to access DTC functionality.

...and https://krypte.net/dtc/txid/a2784925fe6a147c85ed8a4694d4f3e8f616141d7c7dc548b70e3d8f25a651fb 
has kitten in it - everyone loves kittens! :D

but are you planning to add envelope support? Maybe it can work in next way: envelope access - by default, but if it fails, kryptenet tries to get raw data with your implementation

Yes, I already have a test working, but the envelope protocol is too broad, yesterday I took a look at the "protocol", it's just a data serialization tool but the protocol itself is not described in detail, so for example the big data feature could be implemented in more than one way. Downloading single envelope data is not a problem at the moment and I guess I could implement the upload in less than an hour . It would help though if the protocol had more in depth details.
TBH this project is taking more time from me than I could afford ATM and since I am not a big stakeholder my priorities are elsewhere. However, I (we) do plan to support this project on the long term and keep krypte.net up and running since I received some donations that ensure that at least the server costs are covered for some months.

wow guys its beautiful! We can download things directly from the blockchain just with a link :)

i see big things for this coin.

how is mining going for everyone?

i have 20 cpus on it and have mined around 25 dtc so far.

Since diff is getting lower these days the income is bigger every day. I have 16 CPUs but i am adding more every week. I dont know how much i earn cause i jump pools and had some problems with mining stops. I am currently thinking of starting solo mining btw...


Also if someone makes a nice extremely step by step easy guide of how to setup the whole OP thing i will make a small cloud ocean droplet and do it also.

I think oocooku post explain how to install properly. Exept the cpan module thingy.


Basically you do



then


then

You say "yes" then "sudo" then "yes"



and



Then you can do :



It will start datacoin and the server.
If you close the windows or do ctrl+c, it will close the server too, so let it run like that
You can access the data with

http://localhost:8080/dtc/get/HASHTX

Thank you very much! I will try it soon!

hmm apparently i am doing something wrong.

I did what you said and my ip is this 162.243.249.73 its a cloud ocean droplet.

but it does nothing except poping things on terminal of the server. it says error fetching data....


Edit:
WOW! It actually works! I suppose it just had to download all the blocks :P

http://162.243.249.73:8080/dtc/get/40a3eb9624528008a87d9119dbed4041d45c9f6483ecd52a7b24f9c8b4fdf548


Now i really would like to see more things with that :) For example how can i make my own simple webpage now? I am asking too much for now? :P

You should upload it with perl script from main repo - in that case your webpage will be saved with all metainfo required for correct work with DTC web server

Yay this has been a pleasant surprise.  It's good to know the developer is still around.  

I think the datacoin storage payments should be paid to an address that permanently takes them out of circulation.  That would increase the value of datacoin.  Then, the amount of DTC/kb could be changed.  I outlined the design here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFoBC53e310

No, that would just make profits for the early adopters.  The coins must circulate to make the Datacoin economy grow.

But what about the incentives for miners ? Miners secure the network with their power, and at the moment there is little incentive in mining DTC (from an instant profitability point of view).
When Datacoin goes more mainstream and we are using the chain at full cap, every block will be worth more than 50 DTC instead of the 10 DTC we are at right now. Although I understand your concerns about the value since the number of DTC is unlimited (or very high which is essentially the same) and using an unspendable address would surely help keep the inflation at a more reasonable level.

Message to dev of datacoin:

I'm just a random guy for you, which can provide no code.
Yet if you're looking for thinker, discuss idea, or create a think tank (who know) I wish to help.
I guess my view and ideas are of quality.
Obviously everyone think / will say that... (so hard to know for sure)
'still, I wanna help. If you wish my help with idea or whatever, just let me know.
Outsider view are always useful (of course you have a whole popular forum for that ::) 'anyway)

I admit: many thing about your project is still very blurry to me.
Including what it can presently do, how it does it, and what are it's long term attempt / goal to reach.
(Yeah, pretty much everything *laugh  'improving that)
But you appear much more solid than the new team willing to play with "proof of bandwidth".
I didn't check NMC-team for a long while, but it seem they are still over-focused on DNS only.
(Web of trust preventing DNS squatting interest me more at the moment)

------

It's nice to be able to see the picture of a kitten (https://krypte.net/dtc/txid/a2784925fe6a147c85ed8a4694d4f3e8f616141d7c7dc548b70e3d8f25a651fb). (well DL it, doesn't wanna show direct on my browser)

The problem I see is that you need registration on a specific website for that to work.
I dream to see decentralized server. No idea if that is in your long term project.
(I read you don't want to include any DNS feature (for now? KISS/UNIX is cool, no prob with that))

So correct me if I'm wrong:
You consider your project is still in alpha or beta?
You main purpose right now is to become the best decentralized mesh hosting.
(without any censorship, and hosting data ideally forever). Is that it?

Next, then, the main feature you should (logically) try to reach is easy availability of this data to all.
In the most convenient and reliable way.
For now: you either need to have the whole blockchain locally, or subscribe on krypte.net
So still a long way to go.
I'd like to know what you planned in this regard.

Like, http://easylink.whatever/txid-linking-to-this-kitten-pict
No subscription, nothing.
Everyone can use a simple {img}thatlink{/img} on any forum and have this kitten exposed to the world.

Problem with that is centralization.
- Registrar can block your redirection and ICANN can seize the DNS.
- supposedly that NMC.bit was easy for everyone and accessible from firefox, you are still subject to DDOS
I guess IP rotation is not even in development right now in NMC-team.
Yet even if it was already implemented, you would still rely on a limited number of server hosting the whole blockchain and what is needed for it to work smoothly.

I wonder if the following is possible:
Convert your txid in a kind of sub-tracker, bittorrent inspired ('might mean need new soft/browser).
Or simply an .i2p link (or similar) which would address all the node with a full blockchain at the same time.

So to see this cute kitten I either:
- run TAILS, open i2p, enter something like datacoinBC.i2p/txid-linking-to-this-kitten-pict
  (or obviously, it's direct [52_chars].b32.i2p/pictlink)
- or can write on any lambda forum {img}http://tor-to-the-web.net/i2p-to-tor.onion/52charsaddressofdatacoinBC.b32.i2p/txid-linking-to-this-kitten-pict{/img}


Question:
Do you want this very project, with this very blockchain, to still be the one in 5 years? or are you open and see it as play-ground/experiment, where you don't mind that much to restart everything from the start if it can lead to something better, more neat and more popular?


PS: dev, to keep thing ordered, feel free to open a new thread
[such as "Datacoin future" or "Datacoin general Q&A"]
(with quote of the second part, after -----, and your answers)

Now anyone can install simple perl scripts and gain easy access to files stored in the blockchain, if these files are stored with help of these scripts. So it will be good to have such server (it is really small) on each machine with Datacoin which needs access to this files, user will go to e.g. http://localhost:8080/dtc/txid/a2784925fe6a147c85ed8a4694d4f3e8f616141d7c7dc548b70e3d8f25a651fb  and see the kitten - no need to go anywhere outside. It is the most important idea of the OP - anyone can start his DTC server, even on local machine.

Talking about 'the one' -  we need core dev to answer this question, but it seems to me that Datacoin allows a very big 'play-ground' that doesn't need any changes to core protocol, but tons of applications can be written on top-level of it.

i can offer my computer and a small vps for this to be done but i dont know how...

Where did all this socialism come from?  Circulating the coins is not going to make them increase in value.  If everyone here is trying to not make money then let me know so I can dump 10k+ DTC now.  

removing the DTC from circulation will increase the coin price which will increase the value of the coins the miners get.  It spreads evenly amongst everyone.  

When did plans to increase the block reward to 50 DTC get talked about?  That's really annoying.  You are going to screw over all your early investors, myself included, not that they haven't been screwed already.  Thank god I didn't put money in earlier or I would have lost everything >90%.  

What you said about the high number of coins is true.  There seems little reason for people to purchase DTC.  The price is almost designed to go flat so everyone can store a file cheaply.  Rather than increasing the price of coins to increase the value of the mining reward you want to increase the amount of coins in the mining reward while keeping the price low.  

they didnt raise anything.. its like this from the start:

"Fee from fully loaded block is about 50DTC (block reward now is ~11DTC and it decreases)."

ok cool I was freaking out for a second.  sorry everyone for me temporarily losing my faith.  I am excited about personal chains.  Also, who is spamming the chain with "broughs="?

Are  these the 5byte data i see on the blockchain for some weeks now?

8 bytes but ya probably

So file can be uploaded into the blockchain without this script? (therefore not easy to gain access afterwards)
Or are these perl scripts now implemented into datacoind? (great, 'should be transparent/easy)

About the OP idea, I totally agree that everyone convince by the project should run a local node.
Having your own copy of the blockchain locally, and so instant access to all the uploaded file.
"no need to go anywhere outside" is indeed very important.
But easy access from outside (reliable, secure, easy, etc.) shouldn't be neglect either :)
Agreed that's the second step.

This project interest me. But I'm not convince by it's actual shape.
Best of luck anyway, to this project and/or what will succeed it.

Thank you for your post. Here are some comments.


No. No registration is required just because no specific website is required to access data from blockchain by design. Any site can be a Datacoin HTTP server. The main intention is to setup LOCAL WEB SERVER on each user's PC. This local web server will be (in the future) very easy to deal with for ordinary PC user.

krypte.net needs registration. They have a right to do this and probably they have to do this because blockchain can contain sensitive content. Registration is 100% up to site owner.

By the way installing Datacoin HTTP server on some domain (like krypte.net did) is also a very good idea: no software is required for users to access data in this case. All URLs in the blockchain MUST be relative for this scenario.


Some way to provide meaningful names probably will be developed. This isn't done yet because there is no clear idea how to prevent cybersquatting. Ideas are welcome.


Some features are working. Several of them (thanks' to Bitcoin and Primecoin developers) are stable. Many more will be developed.
The project isn't ready for ordinary PC user. But it will be.


A decentralized web.


Blockchain must be available locally. Blockchain is a backbone of Datacoin network.


Why relative URLs are important:

- Ordinary domain name from ICANN can be blocked. So ordinary domain names aren't a solution.
- NMC domains require a Namecoin chain to be available on all devices + browser must support them somehow

Relative URLs can be addressed just like any other URL. Here are examples:



Of course this works only in case Datacoin HTTP server is available.


This can work as a centralized service. But this can be blocked. Local server can't be blocked. Only the Internet can be switched off.

I have a list of all unanswered questions in this thread. I'll comment them today also.

IMHO could this thread not be added to the main [ANN] thread?  I really think it belongs there.

Thans for your answer oocook5u.
I needed a break, therefore the delay.

Ambitious. That's great.
Do you have a working hyperlink system yet? any uploaded example in the blockchain?
Why did you chose to not force encryption? Unencryption will cause problem.

For preventing cybersquatting, I suggest DNS based on Web of Trust (http://www.reddit.com/r/Meshnet/comments/o3wex/wotdns_web_of_trust_based_domain_name_system/) (a kind of p2p DNS), with addition of online synced user bookmark.
Your website is linked to your pubkey (or a unique txid, 'works too).
Everyone can reach it directly using pubkey.key.wot (or whatever4NMCDNS.bit)
You can chose whatever friendly name you wish.
If you write kitten.wot in a browser, you may have multiple pubkey(1~4).key.wot to chose from (that's the point).
(Ideally people can vote and comment each pubkey, and see it's popularity by traffic or other.)
And every user can specify/save his preference (ex. for me kitten.wot = go to directpubkeykitten2.key.wot)

Local server can be DDOSed. IP blacklisted by ISP, etc.
Agreed that this centralized service can be blocked: https://tor-to-the-web.net/i2p-to-tor.onion/52charsaddressofdatacoinBC.b32.i2p/txid-linking-to-this-kitten-pict.jpg
This cannot: 52charsaddressofdatacoinBCkittenmaintxid.b32.i2p
Point is to find a way to address simultaneously many server (ideally all the node).
(Check what Miguel Freitas did with Twister, his bittorrent usage may help)

I am no expert.
If you know a way to reach that, or can affirm .i2p allow (or not) to do precisely that, I am interested to know. (valid for anyone reading this)

Current point is for every one to have a full blockchain on his computer.
But on long term for global adoption, the i2p or i2p-like solution is (almost) a need.
Need easy access from android without local blockchain in the future.

Since original link doesn't work anymore, you can test it here :

http://108.161.145.4:8080/dtc/get/40a3eb9624528008a87d9119dbed4041d45c9f6483ecd52a7b24f9c8b4fdf548

Thank you. I've restarted server. It isn't very stable yet.

As far as I understand the question it is working now in blockchain explorer (as soon as this explorer itself is in the blockchain).


I'm trying to solve another problem: not a security problem but an availability problem.


Thank you ;)


localhost:80 can't be blocked because it is on the same PC with browser.


Yes. Twister is a very similar idea.


Yes. Android and other small devices are important.

Yes. There are several ways to do this:

- local server will support senddata RPC. This method has important security concerns because it leads to spending money. Some way to protect user from spending his money by malicious JS code will be required. At least some explicit confirmation.

- adding data to personal chain will not necessary result in spending money but will add data that will be available to other users with DHT-based search


Such doc is really required as soon as a sound end-user value will appear.

More services are needed...
And more functionalities of the client. Like attached block explorer, solo and pool mining on the client with newest miners, download/upload data directly from client.

1. I would also like to see datacoin client ready to use with tor. Tor attached or something like that...It should be that difficult i think...


2. I would like to see something like a txt only forum on the blockchain. While this will surely bloat the blockchain will also make it more usefull. People will post knowledge, links, phrases etc that banned on many countries...Maybe not really a forum but more like a chat with all its history...Of course people must pay to send as usually...And i would like to see this chat attached on the client.

Yes i know that datacoin is for more important things but a chat that someone can post things and last forever i think is also important...

P.S. Unfortunately i am still very noob in programming to even try something like that...
P.S.   oocook5u please add the dnsseeder on the client. k1ller has made it already.

With all due respect, I don't see this coin going anywhere. Would someone mind explaining me why on earth would I wanna keep generic web application info on a block chain? Aftermath? Won't it become obsolete over time or extremely slow being nonsql? Do we really need this? Well sometimes new and interesting do not mean useful.

Even bitcoin's block chain got so large causing a problem, noone downloads it. Only exchanges and pools do so. People warn about 51% attack and this is largely due the huge block chain. Something should be in the blockchain only if it is really necessary. Otherwise it is a huge burden as of redundancy. Reasons from the OP;

1. they are protected from being deleted or censored
Ok, I guess I am supposed to save some data that I fear will be censored publicly on a block chain so that the block chain will save the data. Am I the only one thinking that this is weird? What's the point? What kind of data or app would I wanna save in block chain apart from the block chain itself?
2. they work locally and don't require a live Internet connection
did you hear about just downloading what you want? What's the point of combining stuff?
3. web interface is convenient to users
oh great, then I should put everything in the blockchain
4. no new technologies are required for developement: HTTP, AJAX and JSON RPC are simply linked together
really?

Ultimately the blockchain will only have metadata - keys, torrents, links etc.  The actual data will be in private chains on the nodes.  So Datacoin will become almost like a distributed file sharing service.  With a built-in currency to prevent leeching - the nodes will be paid to serve up the data.

datacoin = bitcoin + bittorrent ?

lots of questionmarks/problems
-the links to private files in the blockchain will become obsolete over time so fast and they can not be removed as a blockchain is meant to be static.
-why the currency is built in the sharing system? (or vice versa) There is already decentralized sharing systems such as bittorrent working fine. If this datacoin is for file shares, I can already simply pay some service in bitcoins for providing me some torrent download link or something without datacoin (probably I won't need to pay anything for downloading a torrent but let's assume it is rare and I do). How different/better datacoin is than this solution?

Eventually, yes, something like that.  



I understood that links can be updated/redirected in subsequent transactions. Personally I am not too worried about the hygiene of the blockchain.  

Datacoin is superior because it is decentralised and uncensorable, and there wil be an incentive to share files (the nodes will be paid).  All in the blockchain.  Combining bitcoin and bittorrent forces you to use a centralised service.

You should wait for the developer (oocook5u) to actually implement the private chains.  These ideas are so new that it will take some time for the implications to become clear.  I'm taking a 5/10 year view.

if some1 is going to implement this kind of a thing, trust is a huge issue, maybe the biggest. Needless to say, lots of people will claim to have software/files/keys and we may end up paying for the link of a trojan. This is also an issue in the case of web based file/crack download sites and they are for free. When money is involved it must be so carefully designed to make it work. I think an ebay-like built-in user rating system might be some sort of a solution. I would download something from a 97% rating node. Just my 2 cents.

I appreciate your 2 cents. ;D

It would be nice to hear this from the developer himself.  I would love if this were actually going to happen. 

The idea that all data will be stored on a single chain and mined by lots of people, not knowing what could be on the chain, defies logic.  Most people do not want to risk getting arrested just to receive some credits inside a computer. 

Also, I would like to hear the developer comment on changing storage payments from a payment made to the miners to a proof of burn.  Without this, the claim that "data coins have intrinsic value" is completely misleading. 

You are espousing ideas that I invented.  They are good ideas, but I haven't seen much indication from oocook5u that this is what is actually going to happen. 

Furthermore,  where can I find a graph of Datacoin's inflation rate?

>>ideas
>>invented

where is your coin?

On the Lumsden Economy, Nemesis Contract, and Timeline of Uploads
A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash and Intellectual Property System
Donal Lumsden
dlumsd1@lsu.edu

    A large feature of any economy is currency or a medium of exchange.  Currency is traditionally based on something of relative scarcity in order to maintain value.  Gold has been used as a basis for currency due to its intrinsic value and scarcity.  One criticism of gold backed currency is its inelasticity.  Government currency offers elasticity at the price of potential corruption.  Governments create artificial scarcity of their currency by limiting the supply in order to allow the currency to retain value.  As a result, users of government currency must have faith that the government will keep the supply of currency low.  Satoshi Nakamoto made an innovation for alternative, digital currencies by relating the introduction of new Bitcoins to the scarce resource of computational power through an intractable problem.  In this paper, another scarce resource is proposed for the basis of digital currency: innovation.  Rather than basing digital currency on proofs of work, the author proposes basing digital currency on proofs of innovation.

The author asserts the hypothesis that monetary compensation of an entity for generating intellectual property is governed on average by the following equation:


Where M represents monetary compensation
N is an integer representing the number of people involved in the organization
A is a constant > 0

The author asserts that this hypothesis is a logical conclusion of an entity’s ability to utilize an exploitive strategy in a competition to win a zero sum game, government granted monopolies.  The author proposes that if this equation is true, then this represents an unbalanced strategy in intellectual property.  By definition, an unbalanced strategy is exploitable.  A balanced strategy would be of the form:


    If the proposed hypothesis is valid, a certain intellectual property dilemma occurs as a result: the Lumsden Dilemma. The Lumsden Dilemma is summarized as such: compensation for innovation is important for economic advancement, but the end result of a government intellectual property system is to remove the necessity of compensation paid to innovators. The Lumsden Dilemma is dependent on the Lumsden Hypothesis; the more employees under contract in an organization, the more undeserved compensation that organization will receive through a government intellectual property system.  As a result, the most lucrative strategy for an organization is to be the largest organization.  
     A valid Lumsden Hypothesis results in an economy with a few massive organizations rather than a large number of smaller organizations.  Once the outcome of few large organizations has been achieved, these organizations can offer less and less compensation to their innovative employees, because financial compensation is largely dependent on the organization’s size rather than the innovations produced by the organization.  Once a certain threshold has been surpassed, the vast majority of profits attained through a government intellectual property system can be allocated to share holders and non innovative employees, rather than the innovators themselves.  


The object of the game is to have more value than your competitor at the end of the game;
2 entities (EA, EB) are in direct competition;
Each party has a file (FA, FB) with respective values (VA, VB);
EA has a number of employees NA;
EB has a number of employees NB;
Once a constituent has been exposed to a message there is no way of proving the removal of the message from the constituent;
Public disclosure of a file (F) results in the loss of the associated value (V) for the controlling entity (E);

Competing parties are allowed to pay a competitor's constituents to publicly disclose a message through the use of anonymous payment methods;
Constituents can publicly disclose a message without risk through the use of anonymous internet access;
If a message is disclosed, the chance a given constituent disclosed the message is 1/N where N is the number of constituents exposed to that message;
Constituents make decisions based on the options with the highest expected value governed by the equation:


Result of Proposed Strategy with Game: The smaller the ratio of 1/N, the more likely an entity will have a file publicly disclosed by an employee to collect the reward;

    The use of original disclosure of an innovation as the basis for currency has the potential to transform a capitalist economy.  Deemed the Lumsden Economy, the value of the currency in circulation will scale on a 1:1 ratio with the value of innovations disclosed by citizens of the economy.  This solves the problem of an inelastic money supply, by allowing the value of outstanding coins in the system to grow proportionately to the growth of the economy.  The use of original disclosure of innovation as the basis of currency gives Lumsden’s Currency intrinsic value in the form of useful information.  Implementations of a novel intellectual property and currency system are utilized to provide incentive for economic growth through innovation.  This new intellectual property system is designed with open source file sharing in mind, while retaining value for innovators through the network effect.  Such a system should align with the future of manufacturing: distributed production by micro factories such as 3D printers.
 
    A proposal of the Ethereum Project is the creation of a turing complete block chain, meaning any program could be coded and executed within a block chain.  As a result, many types of contracts could be developed, along with many iterations of an essentially similar contract.  The proposed Nemesis Contract produces a cryptographic currency specific to a file upload, and allocates a percentage of that currency X% to the uploader(s), and the rest (100-X)% to a network of seeders who provide access to the file and prevent file deletion, censorship.
 
    Inventors or uploaders submit files to a cryptographic ledger, forming a timeline of files.  Upon the upload of each file, an upload specific currency is generated.  The number of upload specific coins generated per upload is fixed.  X% of these upload specific coins will be transacted to the uploader(s) over time while (100-X)% will be transacted to seeding miners over time.  The author is proposing a crypto currency backed by the intrinsic value of files submitted by a network of uploaders, a new type of P2P currency miner.
 
    To provide incentive for users to both seed and upload files in exchange for an upload specific currency, that currency must have some scarcity.  One way to drive scarcity is through advertising revenue.  By hosting advertising slots in a region specific to an upload, and selling advertising rights through auctions of the upload specific currency, there will be demand for that upload specific currency as long as there is demand for upload specific advertising.
>I don’t believe this is necessary. In my opinion, the information has intrinsic value without forcing advertising to be sold in upload specific coins
 
    The threshold for file uploading is dependent on the value paid to the uploader and the cost of uploading the file.  If the information of the file is worthless then uploading the file to the system will be a waste of the uploader’s time and payment for uploading, limiting reclaimed and frivolous claim submissions.  A small fee could be charged to the uploader to prevent the upload of small value files and spam uploads.  In general, it is good practice to keep this fee as low as possible to prevent giving an advantage to rich uploaders, whose information may not be any more valuable to the economy than a poor uploader.  Paying the uploader a fixed fee would create a fundamental inefficiency in the system as an upload’s value would drop due to an incentive to submit poor claims for the reward, hence the use of upload-specific currencies.  
 
    The block chain for such a system becomes a randomly generated, randomly changing sequence of uploaded information.  New uploads add information to the end of the timeline of uploads.  Elimination of the seeding network for an upload results in the redaction of the complete file from the “Timeline of Uploads” leaving behind only a hashed version of the uploaded file.

    One potential contract would pay upload specific coins between the seeding network and the uploader in a 1:1 manner. Rather than giving 50% of all potential coins outstanding immediately, the uploader’s coins are vested over the life of the seeding process.
 
    Seeders are paid with inflation of upload specific currencies for the uploaded files that they seed.  Seeders provide a decentralized network of storage and hosting.  The value of such a network is related to its ability to survive an attack and its ability to provide the content to other users.
>Proof of storage miners may be used with the main goal of preventing censorship and deletion of the upload, then users who want to view content can separately negotiate a price for downloading the file based on the price of bandwidth usage, supply and demand.  
 
    The aforementioned system of currencies intends to directly monetize the creative process.  The system of currencies intends to bring equality to intellectual property markets by providing incentive for transparency and compensation for open sourcing information.  The system of currencies intends to provide incentive for uploaders to publish files.  The peer-to-peer intellectual property system intends to maximize the efficiency of the economy by allowing free markets to competitively value novel claims in the form of uploaded files, by giving the ability to claim inventions to a larger population such as people who can’t afford filing fees/enforcement of a patent, by allowing claimers to be rewarded for pseudonymously publishing claims such as trade secrets of an employer, by providing incentive to publish ideas of ingenuity immediately rather than after years of government deliberation and patent filings, by removing government bureaucracy from intellectual property, and by removing the need for lawyers in order to receive compensation for ideas.

References
Satoshi Nakamoto, “Bitcoin: A Peer to Peer Electronic Cash System.” https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
John F. Nash Jr., “Ideal Money and the Motivation of Savings and Thrift.” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je22xKQekCk
Vitalik Buterin, “Ethereum: A Next-Generation Smart Contract and Decentralized Application Platform.” http://www.ethereum.org/ethereum.html

>invented system for exploiting corporate IP
>don't want to go to jail
>write paper
>post paper online
>let anonymous developer make the ideas
>become early adopter

profit and win!!

it gets better...
>patent pending
>used to prevent non anonymous development or use
>prevent large companies from using the coin
>large companies have to choose: use the coin and get sued by me or get perpetually owned by my intellectual property exploit

Hilarious!!

Can we see your patent?

of course not.  sorry.

Also, its really nothing to worry about.  

who said i worried? I have already watched your conversations in other threads about patents :D It was funny :D

lol
Sometimes I get on the internet and act really crazy

http://www.bytestamp.net/blocks/index

nice work!

Bytestamp.net adds support for digital assets

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2188160.80

Lots of great Datacoin discussion on the new Datacoin thread
<rises like the phoenix>
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2188160.640