Bitcoin Forum

Do not send GetVisaCoin any bitcoins!! This is a serious attempt to catch the criminal(s) behind VisaCoin.

The Plan
1 - I will donate 5 bitcoins
2 - The original 130 bitcoins stolen by VisaCoin - still untouched - https://blockchain.info/address/1PmsmFaNQraZVbBv3Q13jmyucXVJfUo4Hb
3 - Starting budget for GetVisaCoin - 140 bitcoins

4 - We offer a Bounty of 70 bitcoins for identifying the VisaCoin criminal(s) real world identities & locations
5 - Once located, fear of Chinese prison should make recovering the stolen bitcoins possible without violence

5 - We use the remaining 70 bitcoins to hire a developer to produce & promote a cloned version of NXT
6 - The GetVisaCoin genesis block is generated from the 130 bitcoins worth of contributions in the stolen VisaCoin account



The person(s) behind the VisaCoin scam currently controls a bitcoin address with over 130 bitcoins. That is a very large amount of money, and to my knowledge VisaCoin is the biggest scam the crypto community has witnessed in a long time.

It would appear that the scam originated from China, and in value terms, the 130 bitcoins in the VisaCoin account represents over 21 times the per capita income of China. An equivalent crime in the USA would be worth over $1,000,000 USD.

The VisaCoin scam was a major crime, and to my knowledge the crypto community isn't actively doing anything to catch the criminals who did this. There are many trails to follow - gmail account, bitcointalk account, website hosting, registered domain name, google docs etc. A skilled investigator can catch this guy!!


If the VisaCoin scam goes unchallenged the crypto community will suffer a great deal, and I mean everyone. That amount of money will motivate professional scammers who will present a much more convincing front than VisaCoin. While we can all laugh at the victims gullibility, the truth is the VisaCoin scam and all the copycat scammers who are sure to follow will prey on new users of crypto currencies. The scams that follow will undermine the creation of legitimate crypto coins in the future, prices will suffer, and your valuable holding of crypto coins will fall in price as all those potential new investors rush for the exit doors.

Bitcoin and alt coin prices have risen because of a surge in demand from new users. Every VisaCoin styled scam will undermine confidence now. We need new users to drive demand and adoption, and we make fun of the victims at our own peril.

It is already hard enough for a new comer to navigate all the legitimate new alt coins appearing on a daily basis without having to pick the scams. NXT could have been a scam, but it wasn't, and people got rich. VisaCoin could have been legitimate, and people could have made lots of money. 130 bitcoins can finance an elaborate scam. VisaCoin2 will be harder to spot, even for experienced users, or worse still, you wont invest in the next NXT, coz you'll be thinking it's a scam, and you'll miss out on a golden goose. We all have the benefit of hindsight now.

We need to act now to reduce the influx of scammers. We must catch VisaCoin.

Obviously the success of MasterCoin and NXT has given rise to a new style of IPO fund raising. eMunie has also been falsely accused of being a scam recently because it needs a pre-sale to generate the initial 'float' in that currency scheme.

We need to send a deterrent message to would be scammers to limit their numbers. Otherwise legitimate non POW coins will continue to be falsely labeled as scams, and the already crowded alt coin landscape will be forever littered with increasingly sophisticated scam artists.

We can all laugh at the amateurish nature of the VisaCoin announcement thread, and giggle at all those who fell for it, but the truth is the ENTIRE crypto currency ecosystem can become a laughing stock if we don't do something to catch VisaCoin and send a message.


Many can accuse the victims of being stupid for falling for such an amateurish scam, but this does not diminish the need for the crypto community to act now to catch the person(s) behind VisaCoin scam. We were all newbies once.


What NXT?
We have the option to allow further contributions to increase the bounty for catching VisaCoin, and maybe more importantly to increase the number of accounts in the GetVisaCoin genesis block. I am open to this, but the payments must be limited in size (maximum 1 bitcoin per user), and they must go into an escrow account controlled by a trusted forum member with rock solid reputation. That's obviously not me!

I am NOT a developer, so we'll need to recruit someone for that. The NXT source has been released so developing the software for GetVisaCoin will not be a problem.

We can always change the name later too, but for now the name 'GetVisaCoin' serves a purpose, and it's a good rallying cry.

I am here to get the ball rolling, and then hopefully the community can negotiate with the bounty hunter to determine if they have genuinely found VisaCoin. I AM NOT IN FAVOR OF VIOLENCE! After that we can hopefully rely on trusted forum members to help hire the developer to launch the software and start the promotion.

When VisaCoin reads this (which I'm sure he will sooner rather than later) he'll understand that 70+ bitcoins is over 10 years average income in his homeland, so it's sure to motivate a lot of talented Chinese hackers to reveal his identity and location.

If VisaCoin wants to avoid the pain and embarrassment of being exposed he needs to return ALL the stolen bitcoins NOW! He should either return the money to the original senders, or he should post in this thread and arrange to send the bitcoins to an escrow account controlled by a trusted forum user (i.e. NOT me!). If VisaCoin makes contact the original senders should vote on how to proceed - i.e. whether to proceed with the cloned NXT idea or not.

GetVisaCoin::The Cold Steel to NXT's gold in the POS crypto universe

Very cool of you to do this. Though one minor point. I'm not sure that a clone can be considered a descendant. :P

I am really hoping this guys got caught, they make the whole community to loss trust in IPOs and they inspire a new group of scammers.

So why do you intend if you succeed to take the money to invest them in a NXT clone and be a nasty copycat yourself? Why do not you deposit these money into NXTs future development?

Interesting... clone.. hmm... did you find the 3 intentional flaws in NXT source?
No? -> scam, because it can be brought down

PS: Is RickyJames really behind this?

If you went ahead with the NXT clone idea not sure I'd agree the distribution is better (assuming you just count deposits from the people who sent VisaCoin money). At least one guy sent 29.4 BTC which would be close to 20% of the currency. NXT's is kinda better as it had a 1 BTC cap even though only like 71 people participated. And also, we don't know if VisaCoin himself sent money to that account to make it look like BTC was flowing in to entice people to jump on the bandwagon.

Regardless, it's a good initiative, I hope this guy is caught and brought to justice.

Yes, of course you are right! It should be GetVisaCoin::Sibling of NXT::Born for retribution & deterrent

I was trying to be cute :)

Anon136, would you consider acting in the roll as the trusted forum member to receive any funds should the need arise in the future? I actually had you mind as you cover both needed attributes perfectly - 100% trustworthy and knowledgeable on NXT - so I am very happy to see you responded to my idea.

If this idea took off it would really be better if the GetVisaCoin genesis block had a lot more contributors than just the victims of VisaCoin. Maybe we  should limit each contribution to 0.2 bitcoins from known forum accounts to prevent the distribution problems with NXT. The more contributors the better!

I'm not leadership material really. I'll probably float the idea and disappear .. wonder where that idea came from  .... is that the NSA calling .... better go and hide .... BCNext save me a spot under the bed.

I don't support clones, fund will be better spent in developing a new generation coin created by the idea of what individual wants in a coin and then hire a developer?

I'd like to point that if u distribute only part of the coins in the genesis block, then guys with big stakes will get even higher percentage of the stake. U should add PoW if u don't intend to scam people...

I love NXT too, so I don't want to harm it with a nasty clone. The clone idea allows for a simple way to compensate the VisaCoin victims and still pay the bounty hunter. If there is another way that achieves that without simply being a matter of asking for donations then I'm all ears :)

The cloned NXT seemed like an elegant solution (it funds itself and pays the bounty hunter), and it MIGHT improve on the initial NXT distribution problem that people have had a problem with.

The NXT source code was released in the same week the VisaCoin scam became obvious, so they fit together in the timeline.

BUT, I want to catch the bad guy, and send a message to future scammers - not hurt NXT, so get your thinking caps on.

Suggestions welcome :)

I'm not a developer, so a NEW idea for a coin is not my area of expertise.

Good idea for the victim of visacoin , after all vsc have released negligible whitepaper.

Thanks for dropping by C-F-B (I'm honoured).

Good point. Maybe I need to analyse the VisaCoin payments a little. As it stands all the victims have nothing, so if we need to tweek their amounts in the GetVisaCoin genesis block to prevent big stake holder problems, then they'd still be better off than they are now. I know there is one payment of 29 bitcoins in the VisaCoin account - we'd have to remove/modify that one for sure.

It's just an idea. I'm a HUGE fan of NXT, and not trying to destabilise NXT.

The victims of VisaCoin are self selecting in a way, so part of the distribution has been achieved (a negative lottery).

Catch him first. Then you can talk what to do with the money.

1. If you are a fan to NXT, listen to my advise and istead of cloning, promise to give the money to invest into NXT development.
2. As utopianfuture said, I think it's too early for any plans realted to money tough. Do you have any rough idea for how this guy can be caught and forced to give his money back? Please, answer literally to this question as this seems completely impossible IMO. If you suggest I plan I would help you tough if you promise to invest the money in NXT.

reserved

Interesting.

I really don't like the idea of creating a clone for the sole purpose of leveraging revenge/ retribution. Kind of insulting to NXT. But I suppose open source is open source.

Any clone of NXT will die in a day ;)

You can't clone transparent forging btw, without which it is nothing...

This is a realy stupid idea.

 Waste of time.

We all know this was a scam. But no one has the evidence that this is a scam.

He has just asked us:."give me your money, Perhaps I could develop a new coin".

I am not a hacker, but I believe there is a trail to follow (registered domain name with a payment, gmail account, bitcointalk account, google docs). My idea is to offer a bounty of half the stolen bitcoins (plus my 5 bitcoins) to an honest hacker to identify and locate VisaCoin. Once that happened the threat of prison would make it possible to recover the bitcoins from VisaCoin. Someone would have to approach VisaCoin once he was found.

We could then give each victim half their bitcoins back, but I think it better to try and start a new coin. A modified version of NXT with a larger genesis block is one option, but my objective is to catch VisaCoin, and as it stands nothing is being done. I'm open to suggestions!

At least my idea has flushed out a bit of debate, and hopefully VisaCoin is sleeping a little less soundly now.

To answer your question directly, I am not going to catch VisaCoin myself, but an honest Chinese hacker might decide that 70 bitcoins and the chance to become famous in the crypto community is worth the effort, so I'm hoping someone in China will find VisaCoin and "persuade" him to to return the bitcoins.

Whoever catches VisaCoin in China will get 70+ bitcoins and be famous/respected. That is the incentive. If we start a new coin they would get rewards from that too.

I want VisaCoin to feel nervous!!

The recovered money would belong to the victims of VisaCoin, so it would be their decision. My guess is they would prefer to invest in a new coin that could make them a profit rather than lose half their stake to paying the bounty hunter.

Any coin they start is better to be a POS coin (they've already contributed their stake to the genesis block distribution). A cloned POW coin makes no sense, and doesn't cost 70 bitcoins (less than 0.5 bitcoin to get a pre-fab POW coin now), and would not be a success - too much competition with POW now.

A cloned NXT is simpler, and has less competition, and it would make some improvements to the original NXT

If the 70 bitcoins was invested into NXT development how would the VisaCoin victims be compensated? If there is an answer to that question, then maybe that is a better option than a cloned NXT with a better distribution. Otherwise the VisaCoin victims would probably prefer my idea.

The original VisaCoin thread has been locked so I can't post there, and maybe some of the VisaCoin victims have not seen this thread yet.

Maybe I am wasting my time, but I believe decentralised currencies are very important to the world, and sending a message of deterrence to future scammers is worth doing.

Banks are strong because they protect people's money. Visa is strong because it attempts to protect people against scams and theft. Crypto currencies will not grow if ordinary people get robbed.

I have plenty of bitcoin and NXT, so this is not about me. I had an itch and I am scratching it.

I will push this a little more to be sure that some of the VisaCoin victims have heard of my plan. So far only NXT people have responded, and this isn't really about NXT. The cloned/rebooted NXT idea seems obvious to me, but that's just me.

I want to catch VisaCoin and send a message to the next scammer - PEOPLE WILL LOOK FOR YOU!

This is awesome!! Best coin announcement I've seen in a long while. This is the real Chuck Norris coin!

Why do you think this will be more successful than the hunt for tradefortress?

watch out for scams with so called "2nd gen" crypto and IPO releases!

I believe that if all these so called devs are so confident with their creations and are asking for investments prior to having anything to show but a few paragraphs selling a dream, then DO release some of your information as well as LEGIT contact information other than a account name on the forum!

ANYONE WHO BELIEVES IN THIS PLEASE QUOTE AND LET MAKE MORE AWARE SO THEY DONT FALL PREY TO POSSIBLE SCAMS! [/color]

Chill, bro, this is an attempt to catch a scammer, not to float yet another "2nd, 3rd, 4th...generation crypto-currency".


So have u guys called in ........da da da daaaaa......rickyjames yet?

BTW, I like the idea of tracking down Visacoin, hate the idea of cloning NXT.
How about offering all of the Visacoin investors/victims the chance to transfer their recovered funds into NXT at a discounted price?

I'd love rickyjames to get on board :) VisaCoin is most likely located in China, so I'm hoping some honest Chinese hackers take up the challenge. 70+ bitcoins is worth a lot anywhere now, but in China that's about 10 years average income, so I think it is a large incentive.

There would be a language hurdle for any non-chinese investigators, but I know what rickyjames did with the epicthomas affair, so I'd love to get his input.

I just want to catch VisaCoin and send a message.

As for how best to compensate the VisaCoin victims, if there was a way to pay them from the original NXT that would be great. I'm not out to upset the NXT apple cart (I love NXT and my 5 bitcoins came from selling some on dgex.com).

The only problem I see with that idea is who in the NXT community has the authority to decide that? If it could be done then I'd be very happy, and we'd have the whole NXT community on the hunt for VisaCoin.

The cloned version of NXT part of my plan isn't the critical bit (but I still think it could work).

I want to catch VisaCoin, send a message to the next scammer, compensate the victims of VisaCoin, and hopefully do something to try and prevent the crypto landscape from being destroyed by dishonest behavior.

Thanks for showing support :)

So, you appears to be a holder of some IPO fraud.

Actually ALL IPOs are fraud.

If they're not they whould've done proof of burn or asked people to donated bitcoins instead of asking for it directly.

It would be good if he is brought to justice and we get our btc back

Yes wizzardTim, that's the plan - Justice & Compensation for the victims of VisaCoin.

What do you make of my idea to reboot NXT using the VisaCoin contributions for the genesis block?

Could someone translate my announcement post into Chinese and post it in the Chinese forum? I've had a few nibbles, but if this thing is going to work I will need some help from the Chinese crypto community.

We can catch VisaCoin!

Maintain the Rage!!

GetVisaCoin:: The Cold Steel to NXt's Gold in the POS crypto universe!

It's not a bad idea but we will need something more than that - not just a NXT clone. At least it should have some innovations / changes in features and wallets.

EDIT: maybe a percentage of our funds should be used to pay potential devs to create something better than NXT?

The whole debate: nxt clone , new clone , redistribute the money back to the investors should take place after you catch visacoin.

Ups , should take place after you catch visacoin and manage to get yout bitcoins back.
Sometimes , people who worship bitcoin like a god , next day , when their plans don't match their previous beliefs forget everything.

Wasn't bitcoin a tool to safe guard your wealth? One that even the government can't touch?
How do you plan on forcing visacoin to give you back the coins?
How do you plan , even if you take him in court to prove "he" owns those bitcoins now?

I would advise you to get the bitcoins back first then plan what to do with them.

I totally agree!! I am not a dev, but I would prefer to create something of value, rather than a straight copy/paste of NXT. Someone will do that soon (clone NXT), and if we did it, at least our motives would be accepted as not entirely cynical. But it isn't my preferred option, but I think at the moment it is the most viable.

First catch VisaCoin, so we need to get chinese community involved ASAP. If VisaCoin gets caught it will be a chinese guy that finds him, no doubt about that.

If we find VisaCoin I am sure he can be 'persuaded' to return the bitcoins. I don't advocate violence, and there are other ways, but it wouldn't be up to me. Whoever claims the bounty will have used a method that they are comfortable with. I wont tell people who find him what to do. If they find him, and he wont co-operate, then they might use some coercion. That seems highly likely. But 70+ bitcoins is a lot of money in China, so getting VisaCoin to co-operate might be hard, but there is an incentive to make it happen.

I would hope the law in china can be used, and maybe VisaCoin can be prosecuted, but I know nothing of chinese legal system. Unfortunately if VisaCoin is found, he may suffer in a way that I can't control.

I hope VisaCoin thinks things over and returns the bitcoin. He knows he is at risk now. If my announcement gets translated and posted in the chinese forum, things will happen.

First , let me say that I wished a lot that I would soon see a few of the people scamming on this forum thrown in a prison somewhere in Nigeria for 20 years with something big and full of needles stick down their "something"

But , what you're saying here , promoting and asking for starts to resemble the thing (among others) that put dpr into prison.
Careful , because even what you're doing might become illegal.

More u talk - less chances to return the bitcoins...

Not sure I follow your chain of thought on that one. Nobody is talking about catching VisaCoin except me (that I know of), so if I stop talking, nobody is talking, but VisaCoin is more likely to return the coins - I don't understand that logic.

He can do it any time without being 'seen'.

The more WE/EVERYONE talk, the greater the pressure, better chance VisaCoin thinks of his situation and returns the bitcoins.

If bitcoins are returned, nobody is looking for VisaCoin any more. No money for a bounty (other than my 5 bitcoins, and I'm not after revenge, so once the bitcoins are returned it's over for me).

There must be pressure sometimes for people to learn how to behave.

VisaCoin wont return anything without pressure.

I have thought a lot about that issue.

I am trying to organise for a freelance private investigator in china to find a guy. If he finds the guy and persuades him to return the bitcoins to a trusted third party, the private investigator gets paid half of the bitcoins, and VisaCoin goes back to his life.

If someone can show me how that is illegal then I would stop GetVisaCoin immediately. I'm not a suicide bomber.

But I am worried about the growth of scammers now. They can easily destroy the reputation for all crypto currencies, and nobody else is doing anything, so scam deterrence is zero.

Does anybody think it's worth going to the police? Where? China?

This is the situation - massive incentives to scam with no deterrent at all, and little chance of consequences. GetVisaCoin is an attempt to do something.

It's up to the private investigator to decide how best to achieve the objective. I'm not a mirco manager, and I don't like violence at all.

This is the shitty real world , where it's easy to break the law, but when you have to be brought to justice , the police have to follow the law in order to get you or you walk free.
I have the feeling that the more human rights and laws designed for people we add up, the more we protect criminals and risk the lives and wealth of normal citizens.

Visacoin was the most obvious and transparent scam this forum has ever seen. You deserve everything you got if you "invested"

I did not invest in VisaCoin. I did invest in NXT and I made a lot of money.

You said NXT was a scam (Yawn!). You were wrong. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=313082.msg3358378#msg3358378

If you always say scam sometimes you will be correct, and sometimes you will look like foolish, just like the VisaCoin victims

The landscape is confusing. I'm trying to make things more clear - scam deterrence is a worthwhile endeavor.

I applaud this vigilante/investigator approach and support it. You have taken initiative - well done.

Thank you so much for expressing your support!! It is a worthwhile effort, and I believe in the power of community action. We can still be fair and reasonable with VisaCoin, but we should try and catch those who cross over the line of acceptable behaviour in our community.

I need help getting this thread translated and posted in the Chinese thread. Can a Chinese speaker help me?

allright^^ lets see where this is going!

nxt clones are the future!

Thank you for your efforts in the hope that it can succeed

NEX distribution to be fair to all will be merit based.

You automatically get a percentage of NEX if you show interest.

You get a percentage every time you contribute to NEX.

For the Nxt users who feel disenfranchised,  we will allocate 5% of NEX that they can purchase in exchange for NXT.  We will offer a steep discount of 1 NXT for 50 NEX.   5% of NEX is 50 million coins, this is a hard limit.  Nxt Coin holders are limited to 500,000 NEX per user.   The offer ends when NEX is distributed or the 5% is exhausted.   Nxt owners... this is your opportunity to become an early adopter. 

We will also allocate 1% for VISACOIN investors who lost their money.  This requires verification only that they sent BTC to the VISACOIN BTC donation address.  This is given freely.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=422052.0

how does someone go about proving they sent to BTC to visacoin?  couldnt everyone claim any transaction?  or is there some way to prove a transaction was yours?

You have the VISACOIN address right?

Just let us know which transaction is yours that you sent to the address (use blockchain.info) and we will reward you with appropriate NEX coins.   In cases of dispute,  we can always request the disputing party a secret amount that they can send to us.   In otherwords, we can ask you to send .000023 BTC and the disputing party we ask to send .000077.  We will know then who holds the address.   

So head over to the NEX thread and reserve your NEX coins!

i'm interested

I must congratulate FrictionlessCoin on this proposal to use part of the NEX genesis block distribution to compensate the VisaCoin victims!!

I would say that the other side of the 'coin' for GetVisaCoin is sending a message of deterrence to future scammers, so my hunt for VisaCoin will continue.

This proposal does not alter my plan to offer the stolen bitcoins as a bounty (plus my 5 bitcoins) to an honest hacker in China to catch VisaCoin, but maybe I'm out of the NXT cloning business now.

If the VisaCoin victims are compensated elsewhere, then maybe the bounty hunter looking for VisaCoin can have the full 130 bitcoins, plus my 5.

Hopefully other NXT clone developers will consider offering something similar (I'm not going to discourage a bidding war either!).

Thanks again FrictionlessCoin!

Compensating the VisaCoin victims is one thing!

Catching VisaCoin is another!!

The hunt is on!!

Now we can offer the bounty hunter who locates VisaCoin 135 bitcoin (the stolen 130 plus my 5).

Can somebody post my original announcement in the Chinese forum?

VisaCoin, know that we will not rest just because others in the community may compensate YOUR victims.

support!

+1

Thanks FrictionlessCoin, i already sent you my TX ID.

The signature can prove who is the address owner.
Sign on txid by the address owner to prove.

I support your project. I lost 2BTC by the VisaCoin scam... :-\

Folks,

Could someone come up with a master list of all the users who got scammed by VisaCoin?

I have a ton of emails from VisaCoin folks and am having a difficult time managing all the names.

Thanks,

FrictionlessCoin

It seems much easier to ask them to sign a message with their key! You will also avoid any illegitimate claims that the real owner does not dispute.
If not, I am now claiming all the VisaCoin transactions (and let us talk about those disputed only  ;))

VisaCoin is planning his retirement

What was the original percent of coins that was promised to be allocated to investors?

Was it 420,000,000?

when will it start. what's the plan.

i think it is a good idea.

I got scammed for 1 BTC, where do I signup to send my info of the transaction.

 [ANN] NXO :: descendant of NXT - - Design Donate and Earn Stake!- 1 Billion Coins
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=463208.0

Interested.

Is this a source of ideas do NEM?

I think visacoins own spreadsheet had everyone on.... i was on there lol. Almost terrible to mention getting taken by that weasel. Oh well, was only a small fraction of a btc but still scamming little turd needs to get what is coming to him.

Interested

FOUND !!! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=487039.0


!!!!!!

VisaCoin's identity discovered: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=487039.msg5365389#msg5365389

You're welcome :)

good idea

any updates on the stakes of visacoin victims in NEM ???

it seems scam

osted my weibo.com and renren.com account.

the nxt clone was many,but the successful one is only nas,others was all scam