Bitcoin Forum

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If the price keeps dropping, I'm sure you'll have company.

...or you could mine even if the price went under $7... just waiting selling off until a higher price.
if the price is under $7 for a longer time, the difficulty would even be lower.

If you electrical is that high you may be better off with contracts in the long run

i did not say that it had. but some miners, are keeping thier bitcoins, and paying their bills with fiat money. they are not cashing the bitcoins out. its because they think that bitcoin have a future, and think of the mining as an investment.

and yes! investments have risks. live with it.

hmm... im still buying. :)

catching a falling knife can be dangerous in stocks and also in bitcoins

so you have lost faith in bitcoin? :)

no shit? of cource its dangerous, and im only buying what i can afford

People ask me that -- I don't think it's a fair question. I mean, is Bitcoin some kind of god?

As the saying goes, "In God we trust -- all others pay cash."

Seriously, I have faith in God, but Bitcoin has a lot to prove yet. It isn't accepted by many merchants, even those on the Bitcoin.org list of merchants that supposedly accept BTC.
Meanwhile, the currency loses $1 of value every week or two.

What kind of "faith" am I supposed to have?

Sure, I believe BTC has strong fundamentals. It's counterfeit proof, etc. and has a LOT of potential, especially for international commerce.

But are people smart enough to adopt it? I can't say I have faith in that.

People (as a group) can be very, very shortsighted and very, very stupid.

Just look at what movies are "popular" and which ones are relegated to the fringe -- I rest my case.

Matthew

no!  by looking at the fundamental priciple of bitcoin, it should, if enoght people have faith in it, rise in price. if no people have faith in it, the price will fall.

i have faith in that people have faith in bitcoin, and im also self having faith in bitcoin.
it have nothing with detachment to do.

unfortunately as of now the price follows the us dollar
if the us dollar slips so does the rate bitcoin

Currently the us dollar is falling
We bitcoin holders need to hold the line
speculators are jumping ship .. didn't need them anyway
I've invested what I can ... I hold and wait

yes there will be more people leaving.. but then again, people with free electricity and dorms etc... or rich will still profit! Once 1 block equals 25 btc.. it wil get scarce and the price will rise 50-100 usd in the future. that's what most are waiting for.

Most are waiting for $1,000+/btc. That's pretty much what it will take to even try and make this a viable currency. (price stability and a big enough market to actually make this work.)

Since the Bitcoin network and how it is currently implemented cannot handle high transactional volume compared to other payment processors (VISA, PayPal), it will only be a novelty and investment vehicle for the brave.

For now, this is being fixed.

I don't know if you can consider people stupid for not adopting BTC.  Seriously.  Right now is there really anything you can do with it other than accumulate, speculate or exchange for other currency?  Yeah, I know there's some vendor's that accept it out there, but there's nowhere near enough to there be any type of adoption other than niche vendors/buyers.

Throw in all these idiotic othercoin forks and you're just muddying the waters that much more.

Unless something drastic changes in the next 6-9 months and some really big players (Amazon, Newegg, etc) start accepting BTC, I think we're going to see BTC become more and more niche.

The only thing that will make it a viable currency, is price stabilization. Nothing else. Value of the individual BTC is irrelevant to anyone but a Miner, so long that it's stabilized.

It would be nice for vendors to list in BTC and everyone know what that means, rather than listing in country of origin currency. Companies wouldn't need to adjust their prices nearly as much if it was all in BTC and BTC were stabilized to where people actually knew the value.

The only thing that's going to bring this is a stabilized market and something that doesn't drop 15% in just a week.

As it sits now, people don't know the value of BTC. I haven't checked in a couple hours. As of this post, I have no idea if it's back up to $8.15/BTC or back down to $7.15/BTC. It really could be either or in between. That's just a couple hours. Too much of a gamble for companies to set prices in BTC and too hard for your average person to keep up with.

if I'm a big company, I'd buy a huge amount of BTCs first, and then announce I'm accepting BTCs and big profit is mine.

$3.50 is my break even point at $0.091 kw/h. i think anything below $5 for a sustained period and i might shut it down, unless difficulty also keeps creeping back down as well.

since my mining hardware is paid for, i've just been sitting on my BTC.

I'm pretty sure 90% of miners would be losing money to electricity at anything lower then $5. If that happened I'd expect a mass difficulty decrease.

what could happen if the price hits $1? scary, looking at the all-time charts it really looks like it is collapsing, a mass difficulty decrease could clog the system as the user base leaves

It's actually now 6.8 it is obvious that the issues concerning BTC is just not attracting investment from people with actual money.BTC requires actual MONEY,despite all the BS people talk about the currencies,BTC simply cannot be sustained without it.

Ah, I wouldn't consider Silk as a help to mainstream adoption.  If anything, it probably hurts the image of BTC as a viable currency b/c it's being used for what's 'illegal' activity in many countries and news articles paint it as a bad thing.  

well imo its better for ppl who don't want to support all of this to go now, when it is a bit unprofitable.
For ppl like me (i hope that there are more) bitcoin isn't about profit.
i didn't "invest" on rigs.I have nothing to lose.
Even if its price is -1$ (just like when it started) i'm still going to be around.
Its a financial burden i can take.
Just like seti/folding and a whole lot of projects that you didn't expect anything in return..

If you look at the chart it went up very quickly and has come down much slower. This is a good sign that the much longer trend will continue to be up.

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#vztgSzm1g10zm2g25

Once winter kicks in difficulty will rise hard and when next summer come ASICs will be around the corner.

For the average people that don't have 100k $ to invest in an ASIC setup, I'd say the current price is a good opportunity.

One factor to the actual cost of mining not to forget is that managing a farm take a lot of time and people with the know-how to run a 100+ GPU operation can usually be paid as much per Hours than what they can mine in a day.

Eh, I agree and disagree.  Yeah, it takes some work, but once things are going, you can pretty much leave it running on it's own.

Keep in mind that for a full-custom chip, $100k only buys you the smallest possible die size (e.g. MOSIS and TSMC shuttle runs).  That's about 5% the size of a GPU.  Obviously a full-custom chip will be more efficient than a GPU.  I doubt it will provide twenty times the hash/sec -- though consuming less than 5% of the electricity for equivalent hashspeed is perhaps believable.

I'm extremely skeptical about full-custom chips ever being an economical way to mine.  Probably the only way they matter is if some entity's goal is to sabotage bitcoin ("national security concern") and they're willing to spend amounts of money on par with the total market cap.

Actually, people are forgetting that this is a large percentage drop.

Dropping from $14 to $12 is NOT the same thing as dropping from $8 to $6!

$8 to $6 is a 25% drop.
$14 to $12 is only a 14.2% drop.

And $6 to $4 will be a 33% drop, big whoopings  ::)
 :P

There is a lot of scrap wafers and old equipment being replaced.  Also to note ; an SHA-256 specific chip is not a "full-custom chips", some exist already and a cheaper one could be enviable enough in the crypto/security/gov space to create significant demand beside mining.

@ElectricMucus

Hey I'm not suggesting someone is to make his own for 100k, just that equipment from Pentium 3 era equipment still exist and It may be cheaper to run a batch on them than some may think.

That doesn't make any sense at all. Why mine while unprofitable? when you can just buy the coins if you wanted to invest in them?

For example:
to mine 30 btc, you'll need to pay $200 in electricity (roughly)
why mine, when you can just buy 30 btc, for $195 (@ $6.5 per coin)?

That's completely wrong. Let's take one of the most inefficient cards when it comes to electricity the 5830. A 5830 at most requires 200 watts and at the current diff it mines 0.1867 BTC a day. That means it would take 160.68 days to reach 30 btc. Using the average electricity cost for the united states which is 15 cents per kwh it would cost $115.69 dollars not $200.

If you use a more efficient card on electricity it would be even lower. If your electricity costs less then 15 cents per kwh it will be lower.

Get your facts straight before you start spewing bullshit.

(emphasis mine). I gotta write that down... "cold hash math", awesome.

lol, yeah everybody is on 15c electricity, what a happy world. Except u r full of BS. My own electricity is 19c, and I'm in US. The poster ALREADY SAID $7 is his equilibrium point (if his equilibrium point is $7, that means he's paying $210 in electric for 30 BTC), guess what? now the price is $6.5, that means he's mining unprofitably if he's still mining, which makes my analysis completely correct. So unfortunately you are the one spewing BS.

I said the average is 15c which is true. It costs me 8.5 cents so people do live below the average. You and I are in the minority hence why I said 15. For the average American it still makes sense to mine.

Just to prove you wrong some more. Ill use the same calculations as before except switch 15 to 19c a kwh.

it requires 91 cents per day to run a 5830 at 19c per kwh
160.68/91=$176.51


You make .1867 bitcoins a day with a 5830.

(.1867*6.5)-.91=30 cents per day if you sell today

Why don't Mr "MySelf" give information on his setup, kw/$, and how he arrive with this 7$ figure.

On a strictly power cost POV, I'd say 2.50$ per btc is the average cost for an efficient GPU at 8.5c/kwh

Ah that makes sense. .2938 (in usd) per kwh is extremely expensive. It sucks that the majority of Europe charges that much in electricity.

I'm in Southern Cal and it's also about $7 in electricity to make a BTC.

Looking at some colo in ID, cheapest electric in country supposedly.

I've turned my mining off for now - might turn it on again if it gets cold enough for free heat though.

Is not.  Go away.  :D

Other factors besides video card usage.  Other computer components, fans, and air conditioning.  If you air condition your home any energy that goes into the home is just as costly to extract from the home.  In the winter it may make more sense but if you are using 200 watts as your metric, you are way off.

I was just trying to keep it simple. I have a rig of 4 5830's that pull 900 watts from the wall that's 225 per card (if you average in the watts used by mobo and cpu ect.) If you add a 5th or 6th card to the rig it goes very close to 200 watts each. So that part of what I was saying is correct.

When you say you need air conditioning that's not entirely true. You can throw your rigs in a basement and they will be perfectly fine with out ac and you wont be effected that much by the heat. If a basement is not an option then I'll point out that opening the window now is its own form of ac for the northern states. It gets to between 50-60 degrees at night which is as low as any ac will go. During the day it doesn't really get hotter then 80 degrees so you could just suck it up and not use ac because the computers wont be harmed it will just be a discomfort for your self. This discomfort will slowly go away though as it gets colder.

Any other factors I should take into account?

You're making so many horrible assumptions it's not even funny.

1.  Not everyone has 4 cards in each computer.  I have a couple of rigs that I am running with only 1 card in each of them, simply because that is all the motherboards will support (and I don't want to mess with trying to get a 1x slot working).
2.  Not everyone has a basement.  I don't.  Actually, there's very few homes in Oregon that DO have a basement.
3.  Yes, I could open the window, but I don't want to.  I'd rather use A/C, because I get very uncomfortable in temperatures above 73F or so.  I also have pretty horrible allergies depending on what plants/trees/grasses are letting off their pollen.

You're completely right that a person COULD mine 30 BTC for $200 in electricity if they had $0.15/kwh electric costs.  But that doesn't mean that everyone mines that way.  For me, it really DOES take $200 in electricity (or thereabouts) to mine 30 BTC.

So take your own advice:

I never said "you need air conditioning", I said "if you air condition your home".  Putting it in the basement is irrelevant unless your basement is separately insulated as hot air rises and will end up upstairs otherwise.  It is a simple energy in, energy out equation.  If you put 900 watts in, in the form of waste heat your AC has to pull those 900 watts out.

With winter approaching this is not much of an issue.  In the winter months that extra waste heat is good as it reduces your heat bill.  I also live in a northern climate and this week has been < 70 degrees, but last week topped out at 95.  This year is probably the first that I am looking forward to winter.

Any miner should look at all the facts before they step blindly into mining. If you decided having a rig with 1 card in it was a good idea that was your mistake. All of my rigs have 4+ cards in them to make the most out of the electricity I'm using from the mobo, hdd, cpu ect.


That's a choice you made that doesn't mean you cant do it. You cant complain that electricity is high and choose not to do what you can to lower it. Either suck it up and open a window or don't complain because your electricity bill is higher.

It's NOT relevant what your electricity cost is or what's the US average, the only relevant factor here is what the poster's cost is. Some random guy was telling the poster:
"...or you could mine even if the price went under $7... just waiting selling off until a higher price."

So I pointed out that this does not make any sense, and gave the scenario why this doesn't make sense. Because if the poster's equilibrium is $7, then it does not make any sense for him to continue mining below $7, when he could just spend LESS money to buy at $6.5. No one cares about your electricity cost, or the average. I only care what my own cost is.

If you reread what I wrote I calculated your costs as well. I acknowledged 29 cents per kwh wasn't worth it (what he pays) but I pointed out that your "example" didn't add up at all and you were completely wrong.

God you're dense.

We're discussing how much it costs each individual to mine, not how much you COULD mine for.  If we go that route, you may as well bring FPGA's into the equation.  You COULD mine a whole heck of a lot cheaper with those.

For ME it costs ME $200 of electricity to generate 30 bitcoins.  I've already explained why, and you can't argue with me.  It is what it is.  That's how much it costs.  I'm not complaining, as you seem to imply, I am simply stating the true facts of my situation.

I'll stand with you when you say that it doesn't cost every miner $200 to mine 30 BTC, but I won't say that it doesn't cost any miner $200 BTC to mine 30 BTC, which you seem to be trying to imply.

I would like to direct your attention to this link:
http://www.physics4kids.com/files/thermo_laws.html

Yes it's true. Heat does rise. Quite possibly the reason why basements are cold and dank.... which is also a problem. Basements are usually wet. All those pipes sweating and not alot of ventilation can play hell on any sort of electrical equipment, especially high end overclocked computers such as used for mining operations. Which also brings up why the rest of your post is garbage too, opening a window will do the same thing and the wild swings in humidity/temperature that happen frequently in more than half the world, are also not very good for sensitive high end electrical equipment.

There is a reason why one of the most expensive things about professional large scale data-centers is the money spent on Climate Control. Your mining machines are no different.

I'm not saying that its impossible for it to cost $200 for 30 btc. I agree its possible especially when the op pays 29 cents per kwh. What I'm trying to point out is that a huge amount of people on this forum over exaggerate the cost of electricity. The first person I quoted I proved he could mine for less then $200 which was his example. My point is it's quite easy to lower your cost of electricity. I recognize in some cases (like yours) it may not be pleasant to do what I suggested but if your not willing to do such things you have no right to say that your paying too much in electricity.

Before you start stating that I'm saying your complaining I'm just using your example as your the only one who was so specific. I don't think your complaining but I think alot of people are when they can clearly make their situation easier.

The problem is once you joined the equation my point got father from what it was originally which was to prove that kokojie's example even for himself did not add up and he was wrong. I showed above that in reality he should only have to pay around $176 dollars and he has yet to give me any reason why he would have to pay more.

Going back to the OP's situation then, you still haven't proven anything.  The OP hasn't even stated his electricity costs.  Not to mention, you're still running on the (possibly false) assumption that he is running four cards per rig, or has other means/methods of lowering the rig electricity draw per card to 25 watts.  Like I already pointed out, not everyone run rigs full of four cards each.  And for those of us that do not, our electric costs will be higher because of it.  So, without purchasing a new motherboard and more mining hardware, he very well could have no choice but to mine at $7 of electricity per BTC.

I don't have any specific names but I have heard multiple people saying they keep their machine in the basement and have no problems. As for the window you can easily get a humidity detector for cheap to make sure it doesn't go within dangerous levels. It's not like leaving a window open for one day will kill your machine instantly.

If you reread you will find that he said it costs him .22 euros or .29 usd. I said that is crazy expensive and I don't blame him. Please stop assuming and just read...

And yet you're basing your "proven" $176 figure on $0.19/kwh...

Like I said I was only proving that kokojie was pulling numbers out of his ass with out an explanation. At no point was he referencing the op's numbers.

As it stands for the month of Aug in my area base electrical cost is $0.129 a kwh factor in administrative and delivery costs and it goes to $0.20 a kwh.

Thats a jump from the previous months of $0.068.
Sept will be $0.083

Ah, ok.  It was certainly a convoluted series of posts.  I'll let kokojie respond then - I won't try to argue his electrical expenditures and profit margin for him.

If there were only one miner, using a CPU even, transfers could still happen.

What mining gives is the ability for the blockchain to be trusted as being correct without having a master node or other system of centralized authority.

Bitcoin only needs an amount of hashing sufficient to ensure that no party or cartel has 50%+1 of the mining capacity.  At 12 Thash/s there is likely way more than is necessary at this level of adoption.  There may be even an order of magnitude more hashing that is truly needed, it could be argued perhaps.

Your plug still appears to be inserted at below $6.5.. Reasoning?

so how about 4 dollars? lol

at $4, My plug is off. But I keep it on since I am not in purely for $$.

I'm still in the green 'til BTC hits $3, but I have faith that it'll bounce back eventually.

+1 !!

My rig is dark.  I wasn't really making my money from mining anyway, so much as I was trading on the exchanges.  But now either method seems really risky at this point. 

Power cost maybe?

Didn't SETI shutdown?

now if you had placed a sell at 15.9 your ROI would have been good :P

Gaming!

Oh, I'm sorry. I misunderstood. Gaming is of course a "other use of computing power", but it doesn't pay. ^^

I was making $10 to $20 per day on World of Warcraft (WoW) earlier this year. You just use bot software like LazyBot and Pirox Fishbot, then leave your characters to farm (mining, herbing, skinning, killing and looting mobs) all on their own.

The problem with this though, is that if you get busted by Blizzard, you can lose your chars, that took a freeking long time to level up. The char you aim to use to handle the gold should be on an account that in no way links to your farming characters' accounts.

The only game/virtual world where you can make money and make a profit, safely, and without fear of the wrath of the developer, is Second Life. But that generally involves a LOT of study and experience... it really can be the 2nd life... too realistic on the work front. But for those with a creative bent it can be very enjoyable.

One last virtual environment and game is Entropia Universe, but although you can and are allowed to make money, you are more than likely never going to make a profit. The chance to make a profit in that game has long gone. But it is a LOT of fun. If you deposit funds into that world via your bank account, you are only allowed to deposit no more than $30, which is just right for a decent game, and I have made that last for nearly 3 months at a time.

Chucksta's introduction to making $$$$ by gaming

In conclusion, Second Life is the only one where you can make a decent living, but that requires a LOT of commitment and a LOT of work

So aside from bitcoin, and maybe gaming, does anyone know of any other ways to sell GPU computing power?

Yep. eBay!

Yeah, I'd like to put off selling my hardware if possible. I've become too attached to it. ::)

These simple quick transactions are exactly what Bitcoin needs.  I’m not sure what myself is thinking the network needs.. More speculators perhaps?  Certainly not more Miners.  More people using Bitcoin to purchase everyday things will create more demand for the currency in general and the liquidity provided by huge numbers of small transactions will help to stabilize the Bitcoin prices.

The biggest thing standing in the way of Bitcoin’s success is that it's so hard for regular folks to use them right now.  There needs to be simple to use merchant interfaces, which allow small businesses to sell goods and services and receive payment in Bitcoin without having to jump through so many hoops.  Next, there needs to be a real push by Bitcoin users to get your favorite merchants to accept Bitcoins as payment. These merchants will display signage indicating that they accept Bitcoin, which will cause more consumers to become aware of the currency thus increasing demand for Bitcoins. As long as Bitcoin is seen as an exotic currency used by geeks and criminals in the dark corners of the Internet its future viability will always be in question.

We are a long long way from taking out a mortgage valued in Bitcoins.. I think we need to focus on being able to buy a sandwich first.

Also, when banks make loans they are in effect multiplying the amount of available money.. See Money multiplier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_multiplier).. this doesn't really work with Bitcoins because there is a fixed number of them.  If a central authority (the Federal Reserve) can't print more neither can the banks.

Bitcoin startups would be funded the same as any other technology startup which is usually handled by venture capitalists and not so much the traditional banking system.

I’m not sure I understand.. I looked up sharia banking but it all seems like a shell game to comply with the Islamic law against charging interest while still charging interest.

The situation I am talking about is this:
1. Person A has $1000 in the bank
2. Bank loans $1000 to Person B who pays Person C who puts it in the bank
3. Now Person A has $1000 in the bank AND Person C has $1000 in the bank.. and it’s the same $1000.
Wash, Rinse, Repeat..

This is why we have FDIC deposit insurance in the USA so when everyone wants their money back and all that money doesn’t really exist.. the government just steps in and makes up the difference (perhaps by printing more money)

Also, you want to take loans in the same currency you are paid in. Otherwise you can get slaughtered by market fluctuation.

My (totally crude and uninformed) understanding of Islamic banking is basically that there is no uncollateralized credit, only equity.  Fully collateralized debt it still possible by treating it as equity in the collateral itself.

The "no uncollateralized credit" part is what's similar to bitcoin.  There are no instances of a court issuing a judgment in which bitcoins are considered to be a legitimate asset, and I doubt that is going to happen anytime soon.  So people structure their bitcoin transactions so that they don't have to rely on courts when things go wrong (often this structuring is expensive/difficult/risky, but that's the tradeoff).

Right.. and the whole point is to exploit a loophole in a religious rule.. Although, I don’t know how well that would really work.. if you really believe in God and you believe He forbids something.. would you expect to be able to ignore His rules by playing word / accounting games?

Have there been instances where courts dismissed Bitcoins as having no value?  If someone cheated you out of some Bitcoins you would have just as much right in court as if you had been trading anything else of value.. The exchange medium does not matter as long as both parties had a contract (verbal or otherwise) to make the exchange. The bigger issue is that many Bitcoin transactions are anonymous deals between strangers over the internet where there is no recourse if things were to go wrong.

I think the biggest reason why there isn’t any Bitcoin enumerated credit is because of the exchange volatility.  The availability of credit would only serve to increase volatility (by enabling short selling) so it is not in anyone’s best interest.  I think when the market is (much) bigger and stable we may begin to see credit emerge.

Its worth noting that Islamic banking rules arent too different from how the Catholic church used to view usury, and how Jewish bankers still operate (although as I understand,  jewish bankers are allowed to demand interest from non Jews). The principles behind it arent so much religious as moral, and to be perfectly honest, I think even practical. The more I read about Islamic banking, the more I think its simply a good idea regardless of religion.

Anyway, Im not sure if Islamic banking is the example, or even word to use for BitCoin. It would simply be full reserve banking instead of fractional reserve banking.

I don’t have any problems with Islamic banking.. in fact it seems like a nicer / friendlier sort of banking than we have here with ideas like profit sharing while we have predatory lending.

My only issue is when people commit to living their lives by a code but then seek to subvert the code by playing word games to allow themselves to do whatever they want.

Over simplified examples with made up numbers:

Story A: Person borrows $100,000. Bank has lien on the asset and person pays $500 / month for 30 years to cover principal + interest.

Story B: Person wants asset worth $100,000.  Bank buys asset and charges person $500 / month for 30 years in a rent to own arrangement.

The exact same economic activity is occurring with the exact same intent in both stories but somehow God hates Story A enough to explicitly ban it but is supposed to be just fine with Story B.
 

The problem with the full reserve banking is that there is nothing in it for the bank.  They would need to charge a fee for deposits.. so what is there in it for you to pay someone else to hold your Bitcoins?

The only Bitcoin banking scenario which makes sense is facilitation of instant payments between account holders without waiting for block confirmations.

You should read the wikipedia page more carefully and you will see some serious differences. Like what happens in a foreclosure, risk and reward are shared by bank and "person".  Its also not like here, where the first 5 years or so you only pay back interest and no principal. And if after 5 years you stop paying the bank, you dont own anything, but you owe the bank the full amount + interest. With islamic banking, in the same scenario you could actually make a profit if the house sells for more, and if it sells for less, the bank will have to absorb a large part of that. It really is different.

BTW, this isnt about God. Its about morality. And maybe not even that, it seems to me this sort of banking is just plain smart. I bet you would see a whole lot less foreclosures to keep within your example.


A bank could act as intermediary between depositors and creditors and collect a fee on that. The only thing different is that a bank wouldnt be able to lend out more than it has in deposits. Loans would therefore be more expensive yes, otherwise depositors wouldnt deposit, but since its a deflationary currency thats probably okay. You cant have cheap loans anyway, or you would make a profit just by taking a credit. That this vastly reduces the need and scope of banks is fine by me. The financial sector is currently something like 15% of the US GDP? How insane is that.

Lovely how threads like these go waaay off topic.

I agree.  Because local currency loans are cheaper it does not make financial sense to have Bitcoin enumerated loans.   Some financial services such as payment processing, escrow services and exchanges are needed but most other banking services don’t make much sense in the Bitcoin realm. At this point, with the markets so volatile, Bitcoin enumerated loans would only serve to enable short selling which would further destabilize prices. 

break even price for me is $1.84/btc. this is before I calculate the reduced electricity use because I write off my electricity  (good thing my entire house runs on electricity) ;D ;D

plus with winter coming, I now have 4 space heaters.

fpga mining will never be economical for me