del

[mike678]

for me the electricity cost about 0,21€/KW that dont include VAT the monthly fee and other tax crap that make 30% of my bill

Ah that makes sense. .2938 (in usd) per kwh is extremely expensive. It sucks that the majority of Europe charges that much in electricity.

[DrKennethNoisewater]

I'm in Southern Cal and it's also about $7 in electricity to make a BTC.

Looking at some colo in ID, cheapest electric in country supposedly.

[gw4tt]

I've turned my mining off for now - might turn it on again if it gets cold enough for free heat though.

[sveetsnelda]

Looking at some colo in ID, cheapest electric in country supposedly.

Is not.  Go away. 

[mjoz]

For example:
to mine 30 btc, you'll need to pay $200 in electricity (roughly)

That's completely wrong. Let's take one of the most inefficient cards when it comes to electricity the 5830. A 5830 at most requires 200 watts and at the current diff it mines 0.1867 BTC a day. That means it would take 160.68 days to reach 30 btc. Using the average electricity cost for the united states which is 15 cents per kwh it would cost $115.69 dollars not $200.

If you use a more efficient card on electricity it would be even lower. If your electricity costs less then 15 cents per kwh it will be lower.

Get your facts straight before you start spewing bullshit.

Other factors besides video card usage.  Other computer components, fans, and air conditioning.  If you air condition your home any energy that goes into the home is just as costly to extract from the home.  In the winter it may make more sense but if you are using 200 watts as your metric, you are way off.

[mike678]

Other factors besides video card usage.  Other computer components, fans, and air conditioning.  If you air condition your home any energy that goes into the home is just as costly to extract from the home.  In the winter it may make more sense but if you are using 200 watts as your metric, you are way off.

I was just trying to keep it simple. I have a rig of 4 5830's that pull 900 watts from the wall that's 225 per card (if you average in the watts used by mobo and cpu ect.) If you add a 5th or 6th card to the rig it goes very close to 200 watts each. So that part of what I was saying is correct.

When you say you need air conditioning that's not entirely true. You can throw your rigs in a basement and they will be perfectly fine with out ac and you wont be effected that much by the heat. If a basement is not an option then I'll point out that opening the window now is its own form of ac for the northern states. It gets to between 50-60 degrees at night which is as low as any ac will go. During the day it doesn't really get hotter then 80 degrees so you could just suck it up and not use ac because the computers wont be harmed it will just be a discomfort for your self. This discomfort will slowly go away though as it gets colder.

Any other factors I should take into account?

[SgtSpike]

Other factors besides video card usage.  Other computer components, fans, and air conditioning.  If you air condition your home any energy that goes into the home is just as costly to extract from the home.  In the winter it may make more sense but if you are using 200 watts as your metric, you are way off.

I was just trying to keep it simple. I have a rig of 4 5830's that pull 900 watts from the wall that's 225 per card (if you average in the watts used by mobo and cpu ect.) If you add a 5th or 6th card to the rig it goes very close to 200 watts each. So that part of what I was saying is correct.

When you say you need air conditioning that's not entirely true. You can throw your rigs in a basement and they will be perfectly fine with out ac and you wont be effected that much by the heat. If a basement is not an option then I'll point out that opening the window now is its own form of ac for the northern states. It gets to between 50-60 degrees at night which is as low as any ac will go. During the day it doesn't really get hotter then 80 degrees so you could just suck it up and not use ac because the computers wont be harmed it will just be a discomfort for your self. This discomfort will slowly go away though as it gets colder.

Any other factors I should take into account?

You're making so many horrible assumptions it's not even funny.

1.  Not everyone has 4 cards in each computer.  I have a couple of rigs that I am running with only 1 card in each of them, simply because that is all the motherboards will support (and I don't want to mess with trying to get a 1x slot working).
2.  Not everyone has a basement.  I don't.  Actually, there's very few homes in Oregon that DO have a basement.
3.  Yes, I could open the window, but I don't want to.  I'd rather use A/C, because I get very uncomfortable in temperatures above 73F or so.  I also have pretty horrible allergies depending on what plants/trees/grasses are letting off their pollen.

You're completely right that a person COULD mine 30 BTC for $200 in electricity if they had $0.15/kwh electric costs.  But that doesn't mean that everyone mines that way.  For me, it really DOES take $200 in electricity (or thereabouts) to mine 30 BTC.

So take your own advice:

Get your facts straight before you start spewing bullshit.

[mjoz]

Other factors besides video card usage.  Other computer components, fans, and air conditioning.  If you air condition your home any energy that goes into the home is just as costly to extract from the home.  In the winter it may make more sense but if you are using 200 watts as your metric, you are way off.

I was just trying to keep it simple. I have a rig of 4 5830's that pull 900 watts from the wall that's 225 per card (if you average in the watts used by mobo and cpu ect.) If you add a 5th or 6th card to the rig it goes very close to 200 watts each. So that part of what I was saying is correct.

When you say you need air conditioning that's not entirely true. You can throw your rigs in a basement and they will be perfectly fine with out ac and you wont be effected that much by the heat. If a basement is not an option then I'll point out that opening the window now is its own form of ac for the northern states. It gets to between 50-60 degrees at night which is as low as any ac will go. During the day it doesn't really get hotter then 80 degrees so you could just suck it up and not use ac because the computers wont be harmed it will just be a discomfort for your self. This discomfort will slowly go away though as it gets colder.

Any other factors I should take into account?

I never said "you need air conditioning", I said "if you air condition your home".  Putting it in the basement is irrelevant unless your basement is separately insulated as hot air rises and will end up upstairs otherwise.  It is a simple energy in, energy out equation.  If you put 900 watts in, in the form of waste heat your AC has to pull those 900 watts out.

With winter approaching this is not much of an issue.  In the winter months that extra waste heat is good as it reduces your heat bill.  I also live in a northern climate and this week has been < 70 degrees, but last week topped out at 95.  This year is probably the first that I am looking forward to winter.

[mike678]

1.  Not everyone has 4 cards in each computer.  I have a couple of rigs that I am running with only 1 card in each of them, simply because that is all the motherboards will support (and I don't want to mess with trying to get a 1x slot working).

Any miner should look at all the facts before they step blindly into mining. If you decided having a rig with 1 card in it was a good idea that was your mistake. All of my rigs have 4+ cards in them to make the most out of the electricity I'm using from the mobo, hdd, cpu ect.

2.  Not everyone has a basement.  I don't.  Actually, there's very few homes in Oregon that DO have a basement.

If a basement is not an option

3.  Yes, I could open the window, but I don't want to.  I'd rather use A/C, because I get very uncomfortable in temperatures above 73F or so.  I also have pretty horrible allergies depending on what plants/trees/grasses are letting off their pollen.

That's a choice you made that doesn't mean you cant do it. You cant complain that electricity is high and choose not to do what you can to lower it. Either suck it up and open a window or don't complain because your electricity bill is higher.

[kokojie]

It's NOT relevant what your electricity cost is or what's the US average, the only relevant factor here is what the poster's cost is. Some random guy was telling the poster:
"...or you could mine even if the price went under $7... just waiting selling off until a higher price."

So I pointed out that this does not make any sense, and gave the scenario why this doesn't make sense. Because if the poster's equilibrium is $7, then it does not make any sense for him to continue mining below $7, when he could just spend LESS money to buy at $6.5. No one cares about your electricity cost, or the average. I only care what my own cost is.

lol, yeah everybody is on 15c electricity, what a happy world. Except u r full of BS. My own electricity is 19c, and I'm in US. The poster ALREADY SAID $7 is his equilibrium point, guess what? now the price is $6.5, that means he's mining unprofitably if he's still mining, which makes my analysis completely correct. So unfortunately you are the one spewing BS.

I said the average is 15c which is true. It costs me 8.5 cents so people do live below the average. You and I are in the minority hence why I said 15. For the average American it still makes sense to mine.

Just to prove you wrong some more. Ill use the same calculations as before except switch 15 to 19c a kwh.

it requires 91 cents per day to run a 5830 at 19c per kwh
160.68/91=$176.51


You make .1867 bitcoins a day with a 5830.

(.1867*6.5)-.91=30 cents per day if you sell today

[mike678]

No one cares about your electricity cost, or the average. I only care what my own cost is.

If you reread what I wrote I calculated your costs as well. I acknowledged 29 cents per kwh wasn't worth it (what he pays) but I pointed out that your "example" didn't add up at all and you were completely wrong.

[SgtSpike]

1.  Not everyone has 4 cards in each computer.  I have a couple of rigs that I am running with only 1 card in each of them, simply because that is all the motherboards will support (and I don't want to mess with trying to get a 1x slot working).

Any miner should look at all the facts before they step blindly into mining. If you decided having a rig with 1 card in it was a good idea that was your mistake. All of my rigs have 4+ cards in them to make the most out of the electricity I'm using from the mobo, hdd, cpu ect.

2.  Not everyone has a basement.  I don't.  Actually, there's very few homes in Oregon that DO have a basement.

If a basement is not an option

3.  Yes, I could open the window, but I don't want to.  I'd rather use A/C, because I get very uncomfortable in temperatures above 73F or so.  I also have pretty horrible allergies depending on what plants/trees/grasses are letting off their pollen.

That's a choice you made that doesn't mean you cant do it. You cant complain that electricity is high and choose not to do what you can to lower it. Either suck it up and open a window or don't complain because your electricity bill is higher.

God you're dense.

We're discussing how much it costs each individual to mine, not how much you COULD mine for.  If we go that route, you may as well bring FPGA's into the equation.  You COULD mine a whole heck of a lot cheaper with those.

For ME it costs ME $200 of electricity to generate 30 bitcoins.  I've already explained why, and you can't argue with me.  It is what it is.  That's how much it costs.  I'm not complaining, as you seem to imply, I am simply stating the true facts of my situation.

I'll stand with you when you say that it doesn't cost every miner $200 to mine 30 BTC, but I won't say that it doesn't cost any miner $200 BTC to mine 30 BTC, which you seem to be trying to imply.

[Richard Rahl]

You can throw your rigs in a basement and they will be perfectly fine with out ac and you wont be effected that much by the heat.

I would like to direct your attention to this link:
http://www.physics4kids.com/files/thermo_laws.html

Yes it's true. Heat does rise. Quite possibly the reason why basements are cold and dank.... which is also a problem. Basements are usually wet. All those pipes sweating and not alot of ventilation can play hell on any sort of electrical equipment, especially high end overclocked computers such as used for mining operations. Which also brings up why the rest of your post is garbage too, opening a window will do the same thing and the wild swings in humidity/temperature that happen frequently in more than half the world, are also not very good for sensitive high end electrical equipment.

There is a reason why one of the most expensive things about professional large scale data-centers is the money spent on Climate Control. Your mining machines are no different.

[mike678]

God you're dense.

We're discussing how much it costs each individual to mine, not how much you COULD mine for.  If we go that route, you may as well bring FPGA's into the equation.  You COULD mine a whole heck of a lot cheaper with those.

For ME it costs ME $200 of electricity to generate 30 bitcoins.  I've already explained why, and you can't argue with me.  It is what it is.  That's how much it costs.  I'm not complaining, as you seem to imply, I am simply stating the true facts of my situation.

I'll stand with you when you say that it doesn't cost every miner $200 to mine 30 BTC, but I won't say that it doesn't cost any miner $200 BTC to mine 30 BTC, which you seem to be trying to imply.

I'm not saying that its impossible for it to cost $200 for 30 btc. I agree its possible especially when the op pays 29 cents per kwh. What I'm trying to point out is that a huge amount of people on this forum over exaggerate the cost of electricity. The first person I quoted I proved he could mine for less then $200 which was his example. My point is it's quite easy to lower your cost of electricity. I recognize in some cases (like yours) it may not be pleasant to do what I suggested but if your not willing to do such things you have no right to say that your paying too much in electricity.

Before you start stating that I'm saying your complaining I'm just using your example as your the only one who was so specific. I don't think your complaining but I think alot of people are when they can clearly make their situation easier.

The problem is once you joined the equation my point got father from what it was originally which was to prove that kokojie's example even for himself did not add up and he was wrong. I showed above that in reality he should only have to pay around $176 dollars and he has yet to give me any reason why he would have to pay more.

[SgtSpike]

God you're dense.

We're discussing how much it costs each individual to mine, not how much you COULD mine for.  If we go that route, you may as well bring FPGA's into the equation.  You COULD mine a whole heck of a lot cheaper with those.

For ME it costs ME $200 of electricity to generate 30 bitcoins.  I've already explained why, and you can't argue with me.  It is what it is.  That's how much it costs.  I'm not complaining, as you seem to imply, I am simply stating the true facts of my situation.

I'll stand with you when you say that it doesn't cost every miner $200 to mine 30 BTC, but I won't say that it doesn't cost any miner $200 BTC to mine 30 BTC, which you seem to be trying to imply.

I'm not saying that its impossible for it to cost $200 for 30 btc. I agree its possible especially when the op pays 29 cents per kwh. What I'm trying to point out is that a huge amount of people on this forum over exaggerate the cost of electricity. The first person I quoted I proved he could mine for less then $200 which was his example. My point is it's quite easy to lower your cost of electricity. I recognize in some cases (like yours) it may not be pleasant to do what I suggested but if your not willing to do such things you have no right to say that your paying too much in electricity.

Before you start stating that I'm saying your complaining I'm just using your example as your the only one who was so specific. I don't think your complaining but I think alot of people are when they can clearly make their situation easier.

The problem is once you joined the equation my point got father from what it was originally which was to prove that kokojie's example even for himself did not add up and he was wrong. I showed above that in reality he should only have to pay around $176 dollars and he has yet to give me any reason why he would have to pay more.

Going back to the OP's situation then, you still haven't proven anything.  The OP hasn't even stated his electricity costs.  Not to mention, you're still running on the (possibly false) assumption that he is running four cards per rig, or has other means/methods of lowering the rig electricity draw per card to 25 watts.  Like I already pointed out, not everyone run rigs full of four cards each.  And for those of us that do not, our electric costs will be higher because of it.  So, without purchasing a new motherboard and more mining hardware, he very well could have no choice but to mine at $7 of electricity per BTC.

[mike678]

I would like to direct your attention to this link:
http://www.physics4kids.com/files/thermo_laws.html

Yes it's true. Heat does rise. Quite possibly the reason why basements are cold and dank.... which is also a problem. Basements are usually wet. All those pipes sweating and not alot of ventilation can play hell on any sort of electrical equipment, especially high end overclocked computers such as used for mining operations. Which also brings up why the rest of your post is garbage too, opening a window will do the same thing and the wild swings in humidity/temperature that happen frequently in more than half the world, are also not very good for sensitive high end electrical equipment.

There is a reason why one of the most expensive things about professional large scale data-centers is the money spent on Climate Control. Your mining machines are no different.

I don't have any specific names but I have heard multiple people saying they keep their machine in the basement and have no problems. As for the window you can easily get a humidity detector for cheap to make sure it doesn't go within dangerous levels. It's not like leaving a window open for one day will kill your machine instantly.

[mike678]

Going back to the OP's situation then, you still haven't proven anything.  The OP hasn't even stated his electricity costs.  Not to mention, you're still running on the (possibly false) assumption that he is running four cards per rig, or has other means/methods of lowering the rig electricity draw per card to 25 watts.  Like I already pointed out, not everyone run rigs full of four cards each.  And for those of us that do not, our electric costs will be higher because of it.  So, without purchasing a new motherboard and more mining hardware, he very well could have no choice but to mine at $7 of electricity per BTC.

If you reread you will find that he said it costs him .22 euros or .29 usd. I said that is crazy expensive and I don't blame him. Please stop assuming and just read...

[SgtSpike]

Going back to the OP's situation then, you still haven't proven anything.  The OP hasn't even stated his electricity costs.  Not to mention, you're still running on the (possibly false) assumption that he is running four cards per rig, or has other means/methods of lowering the rig electricity draw per card to 25 watts.  Like I already pointed out, not everyone run rigs full of four cards each.  And for those of us that do not, our electric costs will be higher because of it.  So, without purchasing a new motherboard and more mining hardware, he very well could have no choice but to mine at $7 of electricity per BTC.

If you reread you will find that he said it costs him .22 euros or .29 usd. I said that is crazy expensive and I don't blame him. Please stop assuming and just read...

And yet you're basing your "proven" $176 figure on $0.19/kwh...

lol, yeah everybody is on 15c electricity, what a happy world. Except u r full of BS. My own electricity is 19c, and I'm in US. The poster ALREADY SAID $7 is his equilibrium point, guess what? now the price is $6.5, that means he's mining unprofitably if he's still mining, which makes my analysis completely correct. So unfortunately you are the one spewing BS.

I said the average is 15c which is true. It costs me 8.5 cents so people do live below the average. You and I are in the minority hence why I said 15. For the average American it still makes sense to mine.

Just to prove you wrong some more. Ill use the same calculations as before except switch 15 to 19c a kwh.

it requires 91 cents per day to run a 5830 at 19c per kwh
160.68/91=$176.51


You make .1867 bitcoins a day with a 5830.

(.1867*6.5)-.91=30 cents per day if you sell today

[mike678]

Going back to the OP's situation then, you still haven't proven anything.  The OP hasn't even stated his electricity costs.  Not to mention, you're still running on the (possibly false) assumption that he is running four cards per rig, or has other means/methods of lowering the rig electricity draw per card to 25 watts.  Like I already pointed out, not everyone run rigs full of four cards each.  And for those of us that do not, our electric costs will be higher because of it.  So, without purchasing a new motherboard and more mining hardware, he very well could have no choice but to mine at $7 of electricity per BTC.

If you reread you will find that he said it costs him .22 euros or .29 usd. I said that is crazy expensive and I don't blame him. Please stop assuming and just read...

And yet you're basing your "proven" $176 figure on $0.19/kwh...

Like I said I was only proving that kokojie was pulling numbers out of his ass with out an explanation. At no point was he referencing the op's numbers.

[Sitarow]

As it stands for the month of Aug in my area base electrical cost is $0.129 a kwh factor in administrative and delivery costs and it goes to $0.20 a kwh.

Thats a jump from the previous months of $0.068.
Sept will be $0.083