Bitcoin Forum

With so much bad news, as documented here (https://www.google.com/search?btnG=1&pws=0&q=bitcoin+has+failed#pws=0&q=bitcoin+will+fail+2014) and here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=412280.0), and so much more to come, combined with the fact that bitcoin's utility has been exhausted and its market share is saturated, it's pretty clear that the only way from here is down, in virtually all time frames (definitely medium to long term, it might bounce up just a little, but it will only be a temporary wobble on the way down).  Many of us around here know this, and we post about it often in order to help people.

This thread is a place to discuss the best ways to SHOTR bitcoin for maximum profit.  Post you tips and best successes here.

I agree with proudhon. Bitcoin is in an epic bubble. When it finally pops, a lot of people are going to lose a lot of money

Well, uh, not if we SHOTR in the best way with the highest possible margin levels.

I agree it's in a bubble, but this bubble might well easily extend into the 100 billion (market cap) realm before the sentiment reverses … Just something to keep in mind.

Also, in case you hadn't noticed, proudhon is being sarcastic.

edit: Sorry for spoiling it. :P

Hey, you!

my strategy is as follows:

- give hard drive away with wallet on it
- lose private key so the person who received the drive basically just has some new free storage space (more utility for them)
- hope they give me some money

So far this has proven my most effective method of shotring

I shorted at 831 yesterday

Shorting at 750...

This is the longest sarcasm mode I've ever witnessed, its been more than a week since proudhorn switched sarcasm mode on. No signs of it going anytime soon either. Might be the most epic sarcasm mode ever initiated in history.

Well done.  You're going to make a lot of money.

he's actually not being sarcastic

confirmed sources here http://anarchism.pageabode.com/anarcho/taking-proudhon-seriously

How do you go about shotring practically? I invested back in April, ended up hodling and broke even after the crash, hedl onto my coins until a few weeks ago. Then withdrew my initial investment plus a bit of profit into my bank account and have a nice amount of fiat sat in bitstamp waiting to buy again. So the only money I'm now playing with is profit.

My plan was to wait until after the Chinese New Year and invest again if Bitcoin starts to steadily rise again.

Oh gosh, there are lots of great and reputable SHOTRING websites out there.  I'm a little busy at the moment, but I'll try to compile a good list of all the best ones and post it here.

oops. good luck with that!

Dear Poudrhon,

i sold all my BTC days ago, i am shotrin BTC and altcoins on three different websites with a leverage between 4 and 10, also i´m warning people on message boards about cryptocurrency.
Is there anything else i can do?

PS: I talked to the chinese owner of my laundry service, and asked him if he knows any friends or relatives that actually buy BTC in his country. "Not a single pelson is buying that scam" He was very serious about it :o
Even me is kinda scared now :'(

You're right. Bitcoin is dead. Over. Sell now. Preferably to me. Cheaply.

Proudhon, I'd like to buy ALL you bitcoins. Post me a good price offer and we'll work something out. That way you are rescued from all this upcoming doom.

Proudhon is already shorting shotring with 10000000x leverage. Those coins are tied up.

Do you guys believe me that if bitcoin reaches 100, i'll buy 10?

If it reaches 10, I'll buy 100

If it reaches 1 I'll buy 1000 and take loan for $9000 so I can buy 9000? Just for historical purposes.

Shotring at any price over 200$ is a no-brainer right now.!

ftfy

Thank you.

blitz, u actually believe bitcoin is a bubble?

Not sure* if as 'epic' as this:

http://dumpyourcoins.com/images/DumpYourCoins_Logo.png (http://dumpyourcoins.com/)

*Imagine the Futurama/Fry 'Not sure if...' meme along with this post for maximum effect

Short $850

Long $550 

boom

For someone called "The Bitcoin Foundation" you don't seem very responsible to me.  ;D

bitfinex can short ltc i believe

what a stupid question of course he does, who can deny confirmed facts and well respected sources?

detailed and comprehensive info here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7TuFy0fcuw&hd=1

Based on the mentality and community that has built around it, I sincerely do. Here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=366418.msg3913387#msg3913387l) is a thread that I liked on this subject. This doesn't help you a bit with trading it, however. It can go on for far longer and higher than any bear can stomach. Perhaps at its end, Krugman will laud it. :D

i remember this, good times  :D

Selling OTC call options is the way to go.  No need to own any BTC. With BTC going to zero on all the bad news, it's free money. Hardly any risk at all.  

i am ok with troll posts in this subforum, but troll threads? that's too much, even for me... please move along, there's nothing to see here

Shotr Shotr Shotr! It´s not too late. 80-90% more capitulation are ahead of us!


http://www.rigzone.com/images/home/article/hf_123945_sell.jpg

What? Why? Learn to read a chart. Learn to make more BTC

If you buy and hold why check daily price fluctuations? We all know most have an agenda to sell higher to next guy. We try to save people from getting dumped on. Again look at a weekly chart. Look at price action POST bubble pop. You can go back to $1 doesnt matter. Play the 30 Week EMA if your going to buy nothing above that. Short the 7 Week EMA til it hits the 30, nothing less. Easy $

But this takes months to work out not days so we can actually go up from here but one way or another what im telling you will play out.

Is the only place to short Bitcoin Bitfinex?

I just shorted myself big style on that piece of shit nonsense exchange. I thought I was making trailing stop orders and a stop order to exit the market should two different conditions be met, what I actually did was went long on margin in a fkn falling market.

Most bloody retarded poorly laid out bamboozling shoddy financial exchange that I ever seen.

Who ever is responsible for setting that dyslexic crap up is a bloody idiot, a conman, or both.

due to not knowing what the fuck was going on or what this retarded exchange was doing with my money, I cancelled everything on the spot.

$200 down in an instant!

Fkn horrible place.

Not again!

Change camps MatTheCat.

Honestly, in this case the grass is actually much greener on the other side (side of the investor). if you try to make a fast buck every day this will keep happening.

Yeah Mat, you are like a builder who, instead of building a house, hits himself on the head with the hammer repeatedly. Good thing the hammer is tiny, still, a wrong way. If you can't figure out the tool, don't use it.

Why thank you... looks like I'm almost there!

You mean it has to go to $750 before you break even? Please explain the deal you bought. At what price is the margin call?

Yes I did a margin sell at $750 with order type 'stop'.


but honestly I have no clue what I'm doing...  just playing around with thousands of dollars, its fun

Have you ever traded on Bitfinex?

Open yourself up an account, go and see for yourself what a cluster fuck the whole place is.

If I had done, what I set out to do, I would be $200 up by now, not $200 down.

The way the trading web page is set up is a bit like one of those advertisements that intentionally makes ambiguous statements and claims about a product or service designed to mislead the consumer, but allows the company a plausible get out clause should any litigation ensue.

So so so fkn easy to hit the wrong button on Bitfinex, thinking you are executing one action only for something completely different to be carried out in your name and with your money.

Just think how many times you have went to download a freeware program, only to be hit by a lot of bloatware 'DOWNLOAD HERE' banners, only for the genuine download link to be obscurely tucked away in the bottom corner of the page in size 10 font, that is how Bitfinex is.

The problem is I don't think there are any, or if any now, Bitcoins available to short on Bitfinex.  And even if there are, the loan fees and fees for tradings would eat into any profit you would make from shorting unless it's a large amount of Bitcoins.  Then we go back to the problem there aren't enough coins available.

yes I did, it's really not that complicated. however after careful research into it's operation I took everything out as I suspect it will eventually blow up.

if you want some real futures trading try icbit.se, but this one *is* complicated, i.e. you have to know what you are doing first.

It is not a question of it being 'too complicated' (so only really clever people can understand it), it is that the interface is laid out in a very ambiguous.

SHOTRING bitcoin is such a sure bet that I don't think you really need to know what you're doing.  Just send your bitcoin or USD somewhere that mentions SHOTRING (may be spelled slightly different) and click a few buttons, and in a few weeks you'll probably be rich.

[sarcasm]
He is always sarcastic, but somehow he always forgets to apply the sarcasm tag.
[/sarcasm]

OP, so you shortened? We going back to $1000  :P

All the most vocal shorters seem to have taken profits on the plunge to $765. Only the idiots like me decided that would be a good time to short, although I probably only done it cos I have been wanting to short Bitcoin all the way down and have a pent up frustration that needed released.

Ok, I have closed my short with 1.5% loss. It will be recovered by possible 30% profit at the upcoming rally.
We should go up until the end of January, and then major trend reversal.

To those who prayed for me:  no need for that.

Cheers.

What, you mean this upcoming rally that keeps stopping 1 cent short of every short-sell I try to make?

Fkn viper's with their fkn bots.....no space for genuine punters trying to capitalise on these manufactured 'bounces'. They want to take cash out our pockets, not stuff their cash in our pockets.

Seen enough of trying to buy and then actually sell on short term fluctuations to know that this market is controlled by bots passing Bitcoins between accounts in the attempt to suck in dumb money into the market. So many times have I timed $30 upswings perfectly only to be forced to sell well below ask price in order to guarantee market exit due to not being able to compete with the bots that are setting the phoney market in the first place.

SHHHOOTTRRRRR :D

I just realized that I've been neglecting an important aspect of making money off of bitcoin, besides SHOTRING:  DAY TARDING!  DAY TARDING is perhaps the easiest way to earn money in the short term, and with bitcoin it's so easy for anyone to be a successfull day tarder.  So, even if you're already in a SHOTR position, you should DAY TARD a little bit just to make some extra cash. 

If you're in the US, DAY TARDING might mean you're obligated to pay short term capital gains tax, but it's only, what, like 35%+-+, and with DAY TARDING in bitcoin you're pretty much guaranteed to make twice that by the hour, it's so easy.  In all seriousness, everyone should be doing it.  Just read the spec forum to know exactly when to buy and sell and buy and sell and so on.

What do you smoke?

No profits, no taxes  ;D

If we engage in a contract that you will buy 100 BTC from me at $600/btc in six months, is that a short sale?

I wonder if I would get any takers?

Shorting bitcoins used to be very profitable on Plus500 because your positions expired monthly instead of daily now since the China explosion.
They also removed the leverage 1;10 so these two things makes it less interesting to short bitocins at Plus500.
The best and only alternative at the moment is to trade Bitcoin with leverage at AvaTrade. Your positions with AvaTrade do not expiry daily so that will give you a better opportunity to profit from short and long positions.

This topic attracted me because I actually own a website revolving around Shorting Bitcoins. You find it in my signature ;)

Good luck.

This is called 'Futures'.


ICBIT has a futures market.

OMG, I made new calculations. We can see $3-6 in the next 2 months. Everyone short now!

OP is still waiting for single digits since he shorted Bitcoin the last time. Waiting, waiting... It would not surprise me if it can historically be proven that you earn money by doing the exact opposite of what proudhon says. There might even be a thread about this, search for it. Somehow he reminds me of this guy fontas looking for suckers. So, if you are new to bitcoin this is my one and only warning. Buy if you can, or hold. Period.

http://www.suxorz.com/images/2014/01/20/gQ6N4.png

It will level out at $200. You will be able to buy lower than that. Just hold your fiat/buy NXT/spend it. Buying BTC now = investing in regret.

Your picture is unclear, I'm guessing you are thinking that the price will fall in the same ratio as the volume would fall? 

Chinese trading volume disappearing = Chinese capitulation = Decrease in market cap by a proportional amount

Similarly to how in Nov/Dec,

Chinese trading volume exploding = Chinese investment = Increase in market cap by a proportional amount

I see no reason why would a decrease in volume cause a proportional decrease in price.

Do you see a reason why an increase in volume would cause a proportional rise in price?

Off course not.  This price will follow volume is a kind of strange theory. 

If anything price would decrease with BTC-denominated volume.

It's strange if you are looking at it as a universal rule. It has its limitations, hence the post in the speculation forum.
Nonetheless, there is an established relationship between the Chinese market volume and the increase in price. To expect it to not apply if the volume is removed is illogical.

This motherfucker right here.

I love this guy.

.

correlation is not causation

SHOTOR  :-X

what's in front of you isn't correlation

"there is an established relationship between the Chinese market volume and the increase in price"
That sounds like you are asserting there is a correlation to me.

Wikipedia:
"Correlation does not always mean that one thing causes the other thing (causation), because a something else might have caused both. For example, on hot days people buy ice cream, and people also go to the beach where some are eaten by sharks. There is a correlation between ice cream sales and shark attacks (they both go up as the temperature goes up in this case). But just because ice cream sales go up does not cause (causation) more shark attacks."

When the volume is removed it doesn't necessarily follow that the price will change.

I hope you all shotred Bitcoin as proudhon told you.  ::)

This is just a small blip, mostly caused by people getting out of MtGox to dump on Stamp and other places.  As I confirmed yesterday, given what we know about confirmed news and MtGox and such, from here out, if the price goes up that's good evidence that the price is going to crash.  And if the price doesn't go up that is also good evidence that the price is going to crash.  Therefore, the only sensible thing to do is SHOTR.

Brothers, increase your SHOTRS!

Sorry, but your reasoning makes no sense whatsoever. MtGox sucks for many reasons (frozen accounts, lack of liquidity, holding hostage 60000 coins from bitcoinica depositors etc) but even if they go tits up, which I pray they do, it will not affect the bitcoin price anymore in any significant way. This isn't 2011 anymore, there are many exchanges to pick up the business as a nice boost. The Chinese 'news' is yesterday's news and priced in the current BTC price already. So, if you are really counting on making money shorting bitcoin, I fear you will fail again. How come you haven't changed your strategy after all these years, you must have lost so much money by now it isn't even funny. My guess is you have other ambitions.

Yeah, thanks for the good luck

So... what are you using BitStamp prices? Is your short almost in the positive (again) or did you cash out at 725?

Cashed out a while ago, I didn't make any money... just trying to be cool  :(

So, lost money?

Yea


But it's ok, I made it up in kitty coin

You can short your bitcoins, but remember don't cash out them all, possibly you will miss the bus then

I thought BTC is a train? If it is a bus today, it will be most likely a bicycle tomorrow

No, it is a submarine.

agree, heading to the seabed fast.

Shorting Bitcoin has never been a good idea. Like ever.

Past is over, future begins.

Besides that, shotring BTC was highly lucrative from 2010 on up to now, if you had your maxleverage shotrs executed on a daytarding basis and hedged with a doubling down martingale strategy, as was already outlined by many excellent good sources and CONFIRMERS.

This strategy will be even more lucrative tomorrow.

What you describe is not the future, it's old fashioned gambling. Daytrading is particularly risky with cryptocurrencies. With bitcoin it makes sense only with large amounts of coins, or the gains are not worth the risk. And alts are so manipulated you can regularly lose a shitload of money when larger shifts happen.

lmao.. I made more money shorting bitcoin than hodling.

Then you're doing it wrong. Here's a hint: buy low, hodl, sell high.

With a combo of shorting and hodling = you beat the market many times over.

Hodling is for noobs.

Shorting bitcoin for the win. Recently made many nice shotrs thanks to Shrem and Russia.  :)

droves of people are posting around the forum that they lost a lot of money shorting Bitcoin.

Where did they get the idea that they should SHOTR Bitcoin ?

Not bad ;)

This might as well come to reality in the future.

Dude you must have sold @$480 a month ago and must be very pissed off about that. There is no other explantation why you are only talking bad about BTC.

Or you only try people to force to sell so that you can get cheap coins, what also suggests your username "ice cold".

I am shotring since 2$ for maxprofit. Only talking good about maxprofit, not about bad bitcoin.


As CONFIRMED here, no.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=375643.msg4784241#msg4784241 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=375643.msg4784241#msg4784241)

thought "eiskalt" is finno-ugrian for "self-fulfilling prophecy", seems to be some kind of misspelling.

It's German for ice-cold.

Culcha Candela CONFIRMS:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCWW-2M0-Ks (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCWW-2M0-Ks)

Enjoy

proudhon should be held accountable for forcing/brainwashing people to SHOTR. Hordes have lost money as a result, are u happy now proudhon

how about PEOPLE are held accountable for their own actions.

Its a new thing, sweeping across the developed world... oh wait no its not.

CAUTION: This post may contain words. Read at your own risk. This post is not responsible for making you think or feel anything. (C) 2014 sgbett. All rights reserved. Any resemblance to any post previous or future is purely coincidental. Caveat emptor.

hehehe well put.
i short sell some of my coins, but also hold some, for that 'just in case' scenario.. currently trading at €600 per BTC, it's a good price if you can get it :0)

SHORTING Bitcoin is not a very great idea right now.

The only (?) shorting exchange, Bitfinex, has just removed the option to route stop losses through Bitstamp, which means shorters must now place short stop orders on Bitfinex.

Problem with this is that Bitfinex is populated and operated by sharks/thieves who will be plotting to farm your stop-loss at the first viable opportunity they get. Only way to avoid being called against the grain of the market is to to take very high risks with stop loss.

If anyone knows of a better place to short sell I would be pleased to hear about it.

they just made the book look like that, they still route orders through stamp, they just calculate it for us now so the order book is more clear. there is an announcement page somewhere.

No they don't. If I could have routed my short, which I made right at the very top of the recent spike through Stamp, like I could yesterday and the day before that, then I would never have been called and would have got in at $827. If I was still able to route Stop Loss through Stamp, I would be on a home run right now. But since I had to set my stop loss on Bitfinex, the 300 Ask wall suddenly disappeared into thin air and my stop loss was triggered by a relatively small order, right at the top of the market. Instead I had to wait until trend had clearly reversed, shorting at $822 and I also had to place my stop well out of reach of the market trading range. (which means if a sudden unpredictable surge of buying pressure comes into market, I am screwed) The risk v benefit ratio of doing this just doesn't add up.

Thing with Bitfinex is that if I have unused leverage, I can use this to build up a liar Ask wall to infinity without the fear of having to make good on the fake Ask wall volume that I am creating. This is especially true if I am trading with a bot. I don't trade with a bot, but plenty on Bitfinex do and probably the cunts that run the exchange are fkn crooks as well getting up to the exact same tricks in order to line their own pockets. My first experiences of shorting on Bitfinex were pretty bad. Only when I discovered the Bitstamp routing option could I start to make some reliable short trades. Now that they have taken that option away it is back to being an online pick-pocketing front running thieving bastard competition.

Bitfinex are basically a den of thieves and without the option to route stops through a respectable exchange, an honest trader is just going to get his pockets dipped trading on Bitfinex.

If you are bent on leveraging short you can use btc-e's metatrader4 interface. It works similar to how bitcoinica did, with a fluctuating spread.
But you won't get any less giltchy market and I think it's quite stupid to use it, you'll have the same problems.

I am only interesting in playing the shorting game if I can do so on an exchange where I am not going to be cheated. If the exact same crooked tape painting front running stop-loss farming shenanigans are going on BTC-e as they do on Bitfinex, then I would rather leave it out and stick with Long trades, Honest John style on Bitstamp.