Bitcoin Forum

MtGox (http://mtgox.com) header says: "Trade with confidence on the world's largest Bitcoin exchange!"

http://dump.bitcheese.net/images/otazuki/mtgox-header.png

But it's not "the world’s largest" anymore. You can see it on http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/ (http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/):

http://dump.bitcheese.net/images/ucaguxa/%d1%82%d0%be%d0%bf-%d0%b1%d0%b8%d1%80%d0%b6.png

I think that means MtGox lose it's only advantage. Now I don't know what could save MtGox on market.

MtGox bitcoin price is above $100 higher than on BTC-E or BitStamp. Everybody knows the reason: it's damn hard to withdraw fiat money from there and the only option is buying bitcoins and withdraw them. $100 difference looks scary so I drew a graph with relative difference between MtGox and BTC-E (I'm russian, you may be noticed :)

http://divananalit.org/graphs/mtgox-btce-difference.png

As you can see the relative difference is not so high yet — about 15% as usual.

So, what have I missed? What are you thinking guys? Or nobody cares about MtGox, huh?

It seems like its definitely on a downtrend, i dont have the slightest idea what is going on behind the scenes. I doubt that they are purposely trying to make withdrawals difficult, but if you can't get money off of the site, you are basically playing a bitcoin video game trying to get the most points...

I think it's going down. Nowadays if a company withholds your money, people stop using them, simple. Gox has such a bad rep for withdrawals that I didn't even bother trying, just went straight to bitstamp as soon as I could

I hope they are dying. I signed up and submitted the docs needed almost 4 months ago.

2 months into it I posted a ticket and asked wth? they replied after a month saying we are busy and will reply later.


My question is how can they keep peoples money and why don't we just boycott and destroy them? which would give btc-e more trades and the price would go up right?

I hope too...

They are terrible (and almost scamers) exchange page...

I suspect they are dying. Can't get fiat out for ages, now not processing bitcoin withdrawals reliably. The writing is on the wall.

Get your money out while you can. Oh, except you can't of course  :o

It was the largest exchange, and maybe the admin "forget" to update the site.  ;)

IMHO, mtgox has no advantage but tons of disadvantages when compared with other exchanges, eg. ~150+ higher buying price, terribly delayed USD withdrawal, very bad support, no LTC, etc.

has anyone here had a positive experience with gox?   I haven't seen anyone say anything good about gox once..

Yeah, it's certainly in decline.

One thing I don't understand if this article is true: http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/11/mtgox/

Why doesn't Gox use some of its bitcoin profits and trade for fiat off their own exchange? That retired their fiat debt, which gives them some breathing room whether or not they are actually solvent.

More importantly, they could bring the Gox price closer to parity with other exchanges. I'm sure their withdrawal problems are much worse because many of their customers would like to be the person who somehow successfully withdraws and scores a windfall arbitrage. Everyone knows you can't do that, but people apparently try because there are tons of complaints about it any time a new Gox thread is started. If their price wasn't so out of line, they might actually have fewer withdrawal requests--few enough that they could process them 10 a day (or whatever the alleged bottleneck is).

Sounds funny.

Fiat withdraw problems → BTC price rise → more people want to sell BTC and withdraw fiat → more fiat withdraws → more fiat withdraw problems → BTC price rise → ...

I think there's a parameter which limits this circle. Otherwise BTC price will skyrocket. Could it be withdraw time?

(everything you read above is a joke)

Yes, my experiences with Gox were mostly pretty good... in 2012. ;D

Nope. next question, lol.

Consider this: they haven't processed at least 90% of international wires for 6 months or so now. how many millions of dollars do you think that is in their bank account. And now people can't get btc out more and more. If its looks like a sinking ship, smells like  a burning ship, ... you can guess the rest.

Mtgox is losing market share because the largest trading group (USD) can no longer withdraw funds (for whatever reason).
In Euro and JPY the problems are much less, you do get your money (with a delay of 4-6 weeks) and it is even predictable when you will get it.

So the real question is: who or what is blocking USD withdraws ? (Mtgox itself, US banks, US government, ... ??)

Or indeed why are BTC withdrawals suddenly stopping working? Can't blame a bank or government for that ;)

My last BTC withdraw from mtgox was 1 week ago. It was instantaneous ...

The worst problem is USD withdrawals.
People have been waiting for months.

It certainly appears as if its starting to die off

To where? Japan, SEPA, International?

BTC means he withdrew BTC.
I had the same experience. A week ago it was instant. Todays it takes hours/days. Perhaps they've run into some technical problems with withdrawal processor. I expect them to communicate better.


Posted From bitcointalk.org Android App

Try doing the same thing on USD..

And what happens if bitstamps bank puts limits on the money it can transfer as well? are you going to then hope it dies next? There is a lot of dumbassery with bitcoin I swear.

+1

Nothing to suggest that BTC-e or Bitstamp shouldn't start to encounter similar problems now that they've surpassed Gox's trading volume. Let's just say that they've not got MSB licences in all 50 US states either.

Technical problems with withdrawing BTC? That sounds like a first, even for Gox. I've never used a site where you couldn't withdraw bitcoins ... Perhaps they don't have the BTC "on hand" any more ...

It comes down to ownership/management, anyone competent would not let such a profitable unique business opportunity languish, and would tear down any and all walls night and day until withdrawl issues were 100% sorted, even if it meant moving the business to another country or a huge cash investment to comply with local laws (like being a registered money transmitter in the USA).

Basically the new owner, Mark Karpeles, isnt a Bitcoin guy, recently got obscenely rich, and cant be bothered to run his business. Hes most likely trying to shop it, but nobody is buying cause the brand is tarnished.

He's currently running a 101-course on "How to run a business into the ground". Can't argue with his teachings :)

If they would not include LTC. They would.

The divergence is 20% now (http://divananalit.org/#Difference-between-MtGox-and-BTC-E-bitcoin-prices). Great!

Great for what? You are a statistics guy. Would you say arb between gox and btc-e is happening right now? If it was, wouldn't the prices be converging not diverging?

There is no arbitrage is you don't get access to your funds for 3 to 7 months.

Imagine a scenario where you sell 1 BTC on MtGox today for $1,000 and it is $900 on Bitstamp.  You finally get your funds out in July and the price on Bitstamp is now $1500, so you can buy back 0.67 BTC.  A 33% loss is not arbitrage.   A worse alternative is the exchange fails before your withdraw is processed and you never get your funds, a 100% loss.

There is no arbitrage opportunity without (near) real time movement of funds.

Yep. I know. But nobody listens :)

Great for dying, of course. :)

A big divergence between MtGox and other stocks means:

• it's too hard to withdraw fiat currency;
• people are escaping from MtGox by buying BTC and withdrawing them.

And I think there is no arbitrage currently possible between MtGox and other exchanges due to MtGox withdraw problems. And this is the reason why we have 20% divergence already.

Gox is place with lots of input still (i.e. money and coins going in) but little or no output i.e. a balloon slowly inflating - this is a real case of inflation in the bitcoin world. That is why the price keeps going up. But I'm pretty sure the balloon isn't going to deflate. It's going to go "pop" and there will be bugger all left. You guys thinking about arbing should be thinking about something more basic - just getting any coins you have in Gox out ASAP.

This is assuming the problems at Gox are down to their bank. I think we're beyond that now. Gox can't come out and say "well lads we're terribly sorry but we don't have nearly enough currency anymore to cover all the coins being cashed out from our site" can they? Well they could, but they'd be finished.

Is it a coincidence that the Gox "banking" issues started right about the time a ****load of their funds got seized in the US?
Is it a coincidence that withdrawals are going through perfectly fine from every other exchange including those that are now bigger than Gox?
Is it a coincidence that they have tightened down the verification process, not to mention slowed it down enormously? (In April when they got swamped with signups they were posting that more staff was being hired to handle the inflow, and shortly after verification became very quick indeed - mine took 17 minutes) Now, there is only silence.

The Gox "banking" issues started before summer. I remember cancelling a withdrawal in July after 6 weeks of nothing. In more than half a year, they couldn't find a bank that can handle their volume? Why not multiple banks? Let's not kid ourselves, companies exist that have to make a heck of a lot more payments per day than crypto exchanges, and their banks don't seem to object. That's what a bank is for no? Everything is automated and on the scale of even a small bank the amount of withdrawals Gox would make is insignificant.

Long story short: Gox is most likely a sinking ship, they've ran out of excuses and they are presently in danger of runaway inflation which will lose them the last credibility they have to lose before they implode. The fact that other exchanges are ignoring the price on Gox says a lot about just how little there actually is left.

I'd go as far to say that they are dead already  ;)

That's not how arbitrage works. What you do is sell ten bitcoin at mtgox for euro. Then at the same time you buy 10 bitcoins at bitsamp. Let's say there is a 100 euro difference. Then you earn 1000 euro, minus the fees. Then you wait 20-25 days and repeat. Arbitrage is not dependent on the bitcoins price staying the same, your doing it wrong.
Arbitrage is happening at mtgox obviously, but not enough to make up for the spread.

So you are doing this right now right and making a mint? If so, why are you telling everyone how to do it?

Dealing with JPY domestically is really great on Mt. Gox. Can deposit fiat and get fiat out within an hour or so.

If you have a lot of money just sitting around it's perfectly doable even with the wait time.

This used to be true-ish (verification was apparently still a b----), but is it still true?  See this thread suggesting that withdrawals are now up to three weeks: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=428242.0

Nonsense. Complete nonsense.

If there is an arbitrage opportunity, people will take it, and the two prices will converge.
What we are seeing now is, the price difference just becomes larger and larger.

Yes, Mt. Gox is dying.  The spread between Mt. Gox and other exchanges just passed 26%. That's huge. 

Live chart of Mt. Gox spread. (http://www.coinometrics.com/bitcoin/dispersion)

With USD withdrawals stalled, and EUR , JPY, and BTC withdrawals now subject to long delays, nobody (except a few insiders) can get funds out of Mt. Gox. We're seeing the beginning of a panic.

Prices today:
mtgoxUSD    $970
bitstampUSD    $786 
btceUSD          $774

i really hope mtgox is working onto become a ripple gateway. that would solve all their problem.

I'll try to get some money out in JPY and see how it goes.

Mtgox is not working on anything. That's the problem. The rats have left the ship ... so to speak.

Well I suppose, you could withdraw btc from mtgox to Ripple and exchange for XRP, assuming people want to buy mtgox backed BTC, then exchange the XRP for bitstamp USD or some other gateway that can actually process USD withdrawals.

I just got approved after waiting for 5 months for my mtgox account, but why would I want it now.... For the verification documents I literally submitted pictures of hot girls i found on the net. NO SHIT

Gox is not "out of money". They've almost even, actually, with reasonable assumptions about their losses. Even if they're $5 million under water (debatable), there's more than $30 million on the orderbook. Lack of fiat is definitely not the reason they're unable to process withdrawals.

Still people dreaming that arbing between gox and bitstamp is possible. I love it :)

That's assuming they haven't been taking money out of the business.

He keeps going on about the "orderbook" as though that is some kind of proof Gox is all well and good. Anyone can fake orderbooks, fake trading. its simple. Look at the real facts, the ones that are provable i.e. withdrawals getting slower and slower in all currencies, and you get a true picture of Gox. Not that "they've got a large orderbook" nonsense.

Rofl makoto, i dont know whose ass you pulled that out of

an hour? HAHA

The latest for me was 8 business days. And I was doing it 'the fast way'.

「まことに」意味わからん。

I also somehow do not believe that trading data reported by MtGox is real at all. Looks "robotic" quite often.

And on Full Tilt Poker everybody had $$$ in their accounts. Until they tried to cash out.

There is real money and there is monopoly money. The money you see in MtGox accounts is monopoly money which may or may not be backed by real funds in real bank accounts. There is ample reason to believe Gox does NOT have all the money on their exchange covered.

If Arbitraging Mt.Gox worked, they would NOT be 200$ ahead of everyone else. Arbitration would close that gap in a heartbeat if you could actually get your fiat back out in a somewhat timely manner. For 20-25% people would not mind waiting even a month. The fact that the gap is still widening must mean cash outflow has slowed to a trickle if not dried up entirely. It's market forces, plain and simple, and they cannot be fooled.

because (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=344836.msg3704174#msg3704174).

You keep saying it. I keep saying it. Lots of other people keep saying it. But then some idiot keeps turning up (thrice daily) saying "there's a real opportunity to arb between gox and bitstamp". Laugh or cry are the only options I can see  :)

I'm assuming BTC-e and Bitstamp are not stupid enough to setup a web hosting company based out of the US and the funnel millions of dollars in funds through said web hosting company.  And assuming they have not done something like this; why would they need to be a MSB in the US, where they do not operate; if people in the US choose to send international wire transfers to company in another country that doesn't magically make it a US company?

Gox used to be good back in 2012; quick trades, quick withdrawals, good API....but then:
- Gox "Lag"
- Gox withdrawal "delays"
- Gox verification "delays" and "re-verifications" right when you want to withdraw
- Gox seized funds for USA silliness
- Gox Coinlab bullshit
- Gox litecoin pump and dump attempts
- Missing/delayed BTC transactions
...I prolly missed some stuff

Yes if Bitstamp did all these things over the course of a year I'd probably want them to die too.

Just look at the volume difference at: http://markets.blockchain.info/markets/mtgox/USD
My conclusion would be that no one looking to cash out their BTC is using Gox anymore. I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would buy at that price. So that leaves day traders and they don't really care about the spread, they are just interested in price difference on Gox itself. But with the ever decreasing volume that won't be profitable for long.

I don't think arbitrage works unless you are using EUR. But the volume in EUR trades on Gox is even worse and you would need nerves of steal waiting for your withdrawal to be processed.

It's a sinking ship at the moment but i hope they solve their issues. If they go down so will the BTC price. And i don't think it will bounce back for a while if we can't trust an exchange.

Why would gox have to wire anything? For all of the Gox Bux they trade off their own exchange, they will owe less to account holders. It's the most straightforward way to liquidate their BTC profits.

And now it's passed 16-19% going in the other direction. The gap has gone down markedly in the last few minutes. Panic over? JPY arbitrage back online?

mtgoxUSD    $929 (-51)
bitstampUSD    $789 (+3) 
btceUSD          $773 (-1)

Interesting the gox price has gone down $50 odd the last 12 hrs, whilst bitstamp only down slightly. No idea what's going on at Gox but I'm sure it must be fun working there .... that's presuming they have any staff of course ;)

if so, what currency is driving it down? the only currency that seems to have robust selling is AUD....

No idea. Stopped trying to understand this sinking ship a while ago. Probably just "random volatility" - seems to happen with all companies about to go "kapoosh"

Gox is going to implode at some point, probably in the near future, as things seem to be getting worse and worse.   That part that sucks is it is going to reflect poorly on the whole industry (even though it now represents such a small percentage of bitcoin users).   

The media is going to hop all over it...I can already see headlines like...

"Most Prominent BitCoin  (spelled that way on purpose) Exchange implodes losing investors millions..."

There are so many people that have started threads on this forum that are having withdrawal problems, it is only a matter of time before the ship sinks...

Think positively. When the inevitable happens, we have another great "buying cheap chips" opportunity. Bitcoin is very used to bad news and bouncing back from it. Gox is hideous and a blight on bitcoin. Let them die. Though I wish people could get their coins out first though  >:(

I made a SWIFT withdrawal request to MtGox for USD 8,050 on 14 December 2013 to my bank account in Thailand and I'm still waiting for the funds (as at 3 February 2014).
Replies to my Support Requests to MtGox are very slow (or non-existent) and they just apologize for the delay without giving an ETA.
I agreed to the 5% fee if they would transfer the funds within 7 working days (no reply).
I can find no registered address telephone or fax number for MtGox.
Is MtGox a Ponzi scheme or what?

You won't get it. I made my SWIFT withdrawal to Thailand in early November. Not turned up. Try and get it cancelled is the only way.

With Bitcoin withdrawals now stalling as well, the "can get Bitcoins but can't get dollars" effect that produced the spread is reduced.

Withdrew 0.2 BTC on the 29th just to see if it's working; it was processed in a matter of minutes. Tried another one on the 31th, 0.05 that time, it was processed in minutes as well. Small TX seems to do the trick.

Now I only wish my SEPAs would come through...  ::)

I am here to announce that this thread is:

CONFIRMED GOOD NEWS!

 ;)

I have been waiting for mtgox to die for a long long time. :P

I was told in August that it's already dead and no one is going to see any money from them.

Since then, I withdrew a few hundred euros, made a few good trades. Always had to wait a lot for the SEPA, but they eventually went through.

So if they're really dying, I hope they can hold up till summer at least so my reamining 2K euros will arrive... :)

SEPA is dying slower than SWIFT wires, which haven't indeed been processed since last summer. You got lucky being in SEPA zone :)

Whoops, MtGox price dropped to $825. What's happening?

obvious - why pay more if anyway you can't get btc out, people may as well turn to fiat

How do you "turn to fiat" at Gox? Don't understand.

you sell your gox-btc for gox-usd or gox-euro and try to withdraw it, just a guess

A whale probably decided they would have better luck suing Gox for USD than suing them for BTC.

If I was going to have my money "stuck" and owed to me indefinately; I'd probably prefer that money be denominated in a traditional currency....easier for courts to comprehend.

Just look how We-exchange turned out....anyone with AUD in their accounts appears to have been paid back...BTC holders got 4% back...

If you guys also played online poker, then you remember the whole Ultimate Bet scandal, right?  l feel like Gox is going to be the Ultimate Bet of bitcoin, where it ends up imploding, and it is found that its user's funds are being used for their own personal gain.   The only liquidity they have to cash people out are when new people deposit funds.   When the deposits stop coming in, the withdrawals stop going out.  

I could be completely wrong...but something definitely doesn't feel right about what is going on over there...

In case you've missed the news, getting fiat out of Gox has been nearly impossible for several months now.

hm, actually i realized that btc-usd is independent from euro

They also came out with a super fishy sounding excuse that said that the withdrawal problems seemed to only affect the larger withdrawals.   There is something so not right going on there...

not anymore.

The reason why I do believe Gox is likely to solve its current problems (wrt fiat withdrawals, btc withdrawals):

They did fix their horribly broken trade matching engine last year. I think it was something they ought to have done much earlier (they had time and they had the money to buy expertise), but better late than never.

So, with this precedent, I'm reasoning they have extremely inefficient / stupid leadership culture, where they only dedicate any resources to their systems when problems arise. They're working on a misunderstood "if it ain't broken" principle; they only fix things when it comes painfully, publicly apparent that they are broken.

Is there anyone else but Mark in charge at the decision level?

Withdrawal Request of just 0.0255 BTC (about US$24) on 5 February 2014 not received yet (7 February). Just wanted to test the system.
Still not received the USD funds withdrawal from December 2013 (of course).
Support Requests go unanswered (naturally).
They are just a criminal organization, but I don't know what can be done about it.
Sorry for those with large amounts of BTC or USD at MtGox. You've lost it fellas.

To my understanding, no.

I think so, too. I believe they are not scammers.
I exchanged a couple of emails with the support team.
They were happy to hear that I was cheering them up instead of scolding them.

Besides, do not forget that mark is a PHP programmer.....PHP is nice but known to produce spaghetti code...

They should have died 6 months ago when they stopped giving customers their international wires. The sooner they die the better for bitcoin. I hope this is that time.

BTC withdraws are disabled right now.

And what's happening with MtGox price? Everyone is rushing to sell bitcoins and withdrawing fiat?

Yo can go to court if someone doesnt give your fiat much easily.

MtGox is almost dead. Hope an angel investor somehow saves the day.

unfortunately, this shit is too astonishing that no angel in this world could ever consume.

How exactly is PHP nice? PHP is a HORRIBLE language by any count. I use and even administer some systems written in PHP but not by choice, rather by poor choice made by others. Everyone should read this article before claiming PHP to be good for any purpose: http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/ (http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/)

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7226/7095238893_5000f6e57d_b.jpg (http://flic.kr/p/bNYXk4)

Good for rapid prototyping but yeah for the rest...that would explain why mark cannot delegate...he is probably the only one that can read the code.

MtGox failed to transfer USD funds to my bank account, requested on 14 December 2013, even though I agreed to the outrageous 5% extra handling fee, but after many Support Requests, they finally credited my MtGox account back with the funds on 10 February 2014. Of course, I now have MtGoxBTC and MtGoxUSD which are useless since transfers have been suspended.

This is truly terrifying. If the 5% fee withdrawal doesn't even work now, it really does seem as though Gox is dying/insolvent. Has ANYONE managed to get money out of them in the last few weeks?

ROFL :D
http://ismtgoxdeadyet.com/

I can confirm that I received a withdraw which I ordered in end of November and received it on 5th February (last week):

http://fastimages.eu/images/mtgoxgxg.jpg

To address?
Txid?

Brand new user - trustworthy for sure :-/ :D

I registered today, I didn't care about BC background until now and this mess around. Before it was taken care of by my brother who handles the Miner and guild membership. Believe it or not I received the payment last week. Thing is that I ordered 3 other withdrawals in the end of November every each day due to 1000eur/day limit, and I didn't receive the other withdraws yet but it is about 6 weeks which they claimed that it can take so long even last year.

EDIT: and which address do you mean? My bank is in central EU.

This just in:

Chuck Norris withdrew all of his bitcoins (about 25.000.000) from Mt.Gox earlier today ;)

Sorry :)
I missunderstood you...
You are talking about $ not btc, my bad, sry :D

Yes I was talking about cash withdraw. BC withdraw I did only in January and it took like 3-4 hours which was longer than I expected...

I think gox has been dying for quite some time. Hopefully it'll pop its clogs sometime soon though. Surely nobody will actually use it once they get their money out.

MtGox is essentially dead. If by some chance they do pay out the bitcoins, their reputation is still irreparable, at least with Mark Karpeles in charge. Most users will leave and move to other exchanges. There are probably lawsuits now made against them by some wealthy users.

If you are lucky enough to get your funds out. Don't put them back in!

My MtGox USD fund withdrawal requested on 14 December 2013 (see above), was cancelled by MtGox and the funds credited back to my account on 10 February 2014.
I gave them the opportunity to transfer the funds with the 5% fee, as long as they did it within 7 working days, but it seems they couldn't do that.
The transfer was requested to my bank account in Thailand.

Indeed. In fact, I kinda want to see if we can find one of the last people to get all of their BTC out before the gate slammed shut... maybe we can buy him a cake to express how badly we wish we had the foresight that he/she did.

Even before this fiasco, I was starting to feel that the BTC were safer in my *own* wallet than with an exchange. Now, with Bitstamp's suspension of withdrawals, I think it is going to cause a lot more people to hold their own BTC. This episode has really brought into focus the fact that the exchanges' priorities really are not aligned with those of the depositors.

Useful information to keep in mind:

- Good-quality pictures of Mark Karpeles exist, should he be wanted by police.
- He has been recently sighted leaving the Mt. Gox offices, so he's still in Japan.
- Japan is an island chain.  It's hard to leave Japan without passing through a checkpoint.

On most exchanges BTC withdrawal works again, in fact has already been back for more than a day now on the ones I use. By tomorrow or so Mt.Gox will probably be the only one left denying BTC withdrawals. What are they going to point to then? This display of impotence is going to be the nail in their coffin imho. Then again the markets already know this, Gox is 150$ below everyone else.

They can die when they process btc withdraws. Those with usd funds can buy btc and go out that route.

Were you outright denied the 5% normal withdraw fee option or was it that they could not do it within 7 working days?

--------------
MtGox suggested the 5% fee which I reluctantly agreed to, provided they transfer the USD funds to my bank in Thailand within 7 working days. After all, I had already been waiting since December 2013.
Next thing I know was that my account had been credited back with the funds. No response from MtGox about the 7 working days.
Now I have MtGoxBTC and MtGoxUSD - Great !!

What I'm wondering is why anyone would be stupid enough to still use MtGox? I learned a long time ago that you really have to stay on your toes in the Bitcoin world, and look out for signs of trouble with the services you are using. Even though they were for a long time the premier Bitcoin exchange, there have been so many signs for so long from MtGox that by now anyone still using them can only blame themselves for the troubles they get.

Well, many did used them solely to trade due to volume, that worked with btc untill now. This btc withdraw problems are hard to imagine. Those who wanted to withdraw fiat should have stay away as that was and is bigest gox problem.

The specific cause of the BTC withdrawal problems were very hard to predict, but that customers could get problems withdrawing BTC for some reason wasn't too hard to imagine. Considering all the other problems they've had for a long time and which they've promised would be fixed a long time ago, it's just one more in a long series of problems.

If you believed that whatever the latest problem they have been having would be the last then you are incredibly naive. Every time there is a new problem they've given the impression that it's going to be short term and then everything would work flawlessly again, but it's been clear for a long time that for every little step forward they are taking another two steps back.

i just told you my opinion why many did traded with btc only and why so many conginued to use mtgox. I fully agree that gox have big big problems and given false promises. However, again, btc withdraw issue were indeed hard to imagine, at least that should work fine. I do not know what you refer by customers could have problems withdrawing btc for some (whatever) reason? What reason in the past could predit current issues with btc withdraw?
Also you are pretty vogue with your explanation. What stateamant and what dis(belif) should have warn btc traders only and what make them naive?

To draw a pararel, why bfl has new customers and why people still buy miners from bfl?

My point is that you can never expect to predict very specifically which types of problems a service will have and think you'll be safe. If you do you will always be one step behind. All you can do is take an overall look at the service and see how they have been doing overall.

*lol* Theres something really angry at mtgox... i can understand him. First dont address the problems for years, then blame the foundation for it: https://bitcoinfoundation.org/forum/index.php?/topic/727-forbes-gox/

I agree. However to be safe is one thing and gliches and x problems are another. If you speak about how mtgox lost clients funds then you are just wrong, time will tell. If we talk about safety of your coins then no exchange are good for it, not only due possible solvency issues but suspensions as now as well. My personal opinion is that coins withdraw will resume, question is when.

Point here is not blaming and rubbing mtgox customers here, why they did tha or that, nobody expected current withdraw fiasco.
I have replied my opinion of your original questions why people still used mtgox.