Bitcoin Forum

An updated discussion has been moved to this thread. Please see: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=508812.0

We have had amazing support so far - thank you all so much! Over 1,000 shares have been sold and many emails are coming in about investing! Be sure to get in your shares before they are gone!

Awsome! can't wait!

We're glad that you are as excited as we are!

Up to 2,000 shares sold! Have you joined in yet?

Woah guys, 3,000 shares sold!? That's crazy - don't miss the train, get some yourself!

Shares are flying!

Super easy to fund your Cryptostocks account with BTC, then a simple ticker lookup for ALTSWAP and a quick buy with btc and you're done!

BECOME A SHARE HOLDER!  Join us anyone and everyone... 

AltSwap is just days away from going live, and we would love to have you aboard.  I just bought my shares and see a ton of others have today as well! I'm Jeran, support head at AltSwap.com and am happy to be working with a company that is going to be putting our customers and shareholders first!  The way it should be!  With over 3000 shares gone, they are moving faster than even I expected.  I'm glad everyone is seeing the value.  Please see below for some of the fantastic things we have in store for our investors, and feel free to email me at jeran@altswap.com with any questions.

As a shareholder of AltSwap, you will be entitled to your calculated percentage of revenue derived from sources such as the deposit/withdraw fees, trading fees, ad revenue, bounties, etc. Shareholders are entitled to 70% of the total revenue in each 15-day period as detailed here https://cryptostocks.com/securities/80 (https://cryptostocks.com/securities/80) . Detailed charts with earnings will be provided on a bi-monthly basis via http://altswap.com in a shareholder area of the site.

Dividend Payments: To show our support for every wonderful shareholder, we will be sending out monthly dividends via Cryptostocks.  All shareholders will receive a payment (in BTC) corresponding to the percent of shares they hold in the company. In the future, if ads or other deals are considered, shareholders will also get to vote on their use. The more shares you purchase, the larger your payout will be at the end of each month.

Quarterly Shareholder Meetings: We want all of our shareholders to know what is going on in the company and how we are performing. Therefore, every quarter, a conference call will take place online for all shareholders and people interested in becoming shareholders to hear about website traffic, trading volume, policy changes, and more. It sounds like boring stuff but if you are an investor you know how important the outlook of our company is!

Again, if you have any questions at all, feel free to email me at jeran@altswap.com

GET YOUR SHARES NOW for ONLY 0.005 BTC each!

Note: if you are the owner of a coin and would like to have your coin listed on the exchange, please contact our info@altswap.com address and send us a link to your coin discussion thread along with any extra information about available bounties etc. If you are not sure who to contact, please use the main email and we will direct you to the right person.

It looks promising. So the 50k shares are the only shares that are going to get issued right?

Any thoughts on buying the shares back if the revenue is good?

The 50,000 shares are all that will ever be issued. We may consider buying back shares if revenue gets really good, yes!

Thank you for your reply.

I still have some questions though. I'm all for freedom of information so I would like to ask my questions here in stead of by e-mail.

What country is AltSwap based in?
I see you have Whois Protection enabled on your domain, don't you think by setting up a new "trusted" market you need to provide some transperacy about the company?

Server Protection
Have you thought of server protection against DDoS attacks?

Testing
Is there a possibility to be part of a test/beta team? I would like to actually see and test what I am investing in.

What happened to the old launch date?
In the Google cache of AltSwap the page displayed the message "We will be launching Friday, January 31, 2014". Why did this get delayed?

Marketing
Who is responsible for the marketing in the company? Since I have experience in marketing I'd like to know who I can contact for some extra information. I have the idea AltSwap is missing out on marketing and I would like to know if I can be of service to you guys.

Thanks for your time.

Absolutely! We will gladly answer your questions in the open.

We are based in the United States. We are working on getting a few licenses (some are not needed until an evaluation of $100,000 USD is reached but we will comply with FinCEN anti-money laundering certification at minimum and others later). The Whois protection is to protect my personal information but may be opened up once a post office box is opened up for the company. We will keep you updated on the physical address of the exchange.

The server is equipped with a few layers of protection against DDoS including Cloudflare and some other technologies. Your coins aren't stored on the server so even loss of the server, which is unlikely, will not result in the loss of your coins.

We are currently just testing the exchange in-house. I understand your reluctancy to invest in something you cannot test so I would encourage you to hold off on investing until the exchange officially opens up if you aren't comfortable doing it beforehand. Our shares will still be available after launch but you may miss out on a dividend payout or two. I would never push anyone to invest unless they were completely comfortable with it, so it will probably be best to hold off in the case that you aren't fully secure.

The old launch date was proposed very early in development and was pushed back to make room for a full UI redesign. We are still in the process of redesigning the UI and will keep everyone update with development progress the closer we get to the launch date.

Marketing is currently handled by Devin (he can be reached at devin@altswap.com) and he can explain more about some of his previous marketing experience but we can always use more help!

Thanks for your questions! You can email us with any others you may have or post them here - our goal is to inform!

We have landed our first guaranteed coin on the exchange! Dividends will go out tomorrow and earnings from before the exchange launch will be included in the first shareholder report 15 days after it goes live.

If you haven't purchased your shares yet, get them before tomorrow night if you'd like to receive the first dividend payment!

The 5,000th share has been sold! We are ramping up for our first dividend so be sure to get your shares before tomorrow evening!

sent some emails to your side about whitelabel and adding MSC.

How can we be assured that it will never happen? (More then 50k shares)

Hello? Is the exchange actually gonna launch? Timer is 0 for a while now, no news or is it just me?

Pfff so amateurish.. probably a scam. -.- He marketed his shares above anything else, so don't expect much.

Hi guys, yes, the day timer was at 0. However, there are still hours left but we have put up a frontend for registration right now. Scams don't pay out dividends but we've already paid out our first :)

Please keep ur investors updated...

I've seen it many times, paying dividends from share income. Not saying you do that, but it is easily possible.

Coin vote going up on www.cryptostocks.com tonight so you'll be able to vote up your favorite coins.

Coins we are already launching with:
BTC
LTC
DVC
BAT

The exchange code is already written but a last-minute change in design has forced us to hold off on the exchange release for a few days. However, we are still strongly progressing and registration is available. If you register on the exchange, we will be able to directly contact you about any updates as we progress and get more pages up this week.

Bullshit, this isn't acceptable, what an incredible weak excuse. You should get arrested already, i'm sure you made a significant amount of money selling shares and paid someone with it, to develop an exchange for you.

Trust me, if this was a scam I would have already fled the forums. On the contrary, I'm trying to keep everyone updated on progress and further development. Building a user-friendly site is quite important to us and we will put that ahead of a poorly-executed launch any day. Keep posted for details :)

Voting is up on our www.cryptostocks.com page! We have a TON of coins to choose from for launch and we will be adding at least 8-10 with the most "Yes" votes.

Voting ends on February 14, 2014 at 11:59PM UTC and you will receive one vote power per share owned. Get voting! Thanks all!

Sooooo any ETA yet on when trading begins?

(and I'd rather have an honest one than an overly optimistic one!)

Any update on the trading launch?

Voting just ended and we are currently deciding how many of the top to launch with. You will all see user profiles go into effect sometime this week, signaling a big step in the redesign of the website and launch of trading. I'll keep prospective dates to "soon" for now but I'll be able to update you when we get the user profiles up and make the final run towards reskinning/redesigning the trading pages.

If you haven't signed up for an account yet on www.altswap.com, please do that now so we have your email in our system for announcement purposes. We won't be bombarding you with emails (we haven't actually sent any yet), however, we will be using it occasionally for big announcements/changes.

Profiles will be launching soon. They will go into effect for all accounts automatically so you can change your information.

We are considering launching a beta of the skinless site for a soft launch before the full launch.

A beta will be good to see, I hope you all the best with the site.

I know for a fact, that this isn't going anywhere, but I'm waiting. =]

There have been a half dozen GOOD exchanges launched in the space this scheme has FAILED to launch.

Fake or not, becoming less and less relevant every day.

any updates on this one?
promised launch 1 week ago... nothing yet.....

this isn't going to end well :(

any news here?

Hi all!

First of all, if you weren't watching the game or actually there last night...heres an inside look at the madness from my point of view ;) #GTHD


Next, I'd like to tell you that we have linked up the profile pages. They will have a few graphical changes tomorrow to make them a little more pleasing to the eye and more coins will show up soon of course (from the list of those voted on by shareholders).

We have started linking up the trading pages to the new layout. I've refrained from giving out any release date because I don't want anyone to be expecting it earlier than it will launch.

IF you are interested in helping us test out the new layout and its functions, send me a direct email stating so at seth@altswap.com with your account email somewhere in the body as well as your request. This is completely optional, but just be aware that you will have to 'trust the system' before it is released to the public to do this. We will have you digitally sign a waiver and there will be a very limited number of slots available. Once you notify me, I'll randomly pick the few that we would like to test the layout and you'll receive private updates and instructions.

Thanks all, enjoy the profiles and ability to switch some account information. Enjoy your weekend and remember: no one likes Dook ;)

Guys, I'm Jeran, and I have posted a few times here in this forum.  I just wanted to let you know that I am the Head of Customer Support and keeping you guys happy is our number one goal.  I came aboard after the launch date was announced and even though I have heavy experience in Customer Satisfaction Standards and Issue Management, I have very little in design so I have left that to Seth and the developers. 

I have mentioned to Seth that we need not say another date, as the last was missed and I know how frustrating that can be.  So, please understand this is no scam.  I know the CEO, and nobody is going anywhere.  We will be having some test runs and a beta or soft opening to start to hammer out the final details.  Please bear with us.  The reason I joined Altswap is first, because I love bitcoin and some of the other emerging alt coins and second, because I wanted to be with a team that wanted to build something the right way and put our customers first.  After conversations with other staff, Seth and Deevin... I knew this was the spot.  We are coin users and traders and so we are making sure the site has the features we find important and have had to take great care in making sure you are safe.

That being said, as a shareholder as well (purchased with my own btc at no discount) I'm as equally upset at the late open but at this point, what else can we do than give them time to work out the bugs.  If I had a time machine I'd bet all I have on Seattle to win the Superbowl straight-up and parlay with over and there would be no need for me to have a job.  Be patient and our rewards will be great. Feel free to email me at jeran@altswap.com or email info@altswap.com at anytime and I will work on your concern. I look forward to helping run the best exchange yet [/b]

Please remember to sign up for an account at http://altswap.com (http://altswap.com) and ensure your email is correct.  Going forward we will be emailing updates as we have them.  Shares are still available at www.cryptostocks.com.   

Jeran

Just to mention, ALTSWAP has apparently been locked on CryptoStocks...

The request for votes, expires tomorrow, and I still show a few shares in my share list (single digits, which I can easily write off), but unable to bring up any page relating to ALTSWAP, or even the request for votes page for them, even tho their vote still is listed on the news page.

Looking extremely scammy now... even more so than paying a dividend before the site even opened, was.

Just a heads-up to you all.

=squeak=

C'mon now guys, this is just misinformation.  I just went to cyrptostocks and all my coins are present and all announcements are there....  Please explain what you mean locked out.

What part of the bolded section above, is it, that you need to have explained to you?

=squeak=

EVERY BIT as it is totally untrue.  I can bring up every page.

I dont even own any of these but the pages are definately loading.  Someone sold thousands of shares at .000001 tho, those who paid .005 must be pissed.

and I can't, which negates your "totally untrue" claim.

I can bring up every page of all the other shares I have... every one of them, except for yours.

I'm not one of the crowd who had been calling your issue a scam... if I had thought that I wouldn't have bought shares in it... but what I'm seeing (or rather, not able to see) now, gives their accusations some weight.

Since I can't bring up your pages, and everyone else's pages work without a problem, I'm more inclined to believe me, than I am you... so as far as I'm concerned, your claim about bringing up every page, is totally untrue, as I can't do the same.

=squeak=

Try again.... I'm looking into it but my pages all open up fine

I've BEEN trying it for a couple hours now... and I'm no novice when it comes to computers and dealing with networking... the exchange is serving me up an error page for no explainable reason on my side, which means, it is server side.

YOU can probably still see the pages, because you're the issuer, so even if it has been shut off to the rest of us, you should still be able to see them so you can manage the issue.

=squeak=

I am not the issuer. I am no different than you when it comes to the stocks at cyrptostocks. Even the other poster said he could see all pages, but there is an issue that I do see as I see stocks were sold very cheap today.  I am trying to reach Seth as we speak but he goes to school and is usually available a little later.  I'm working on this right now and will get back with you soon....   I understand your frustration, but I am in the same boat.  I bought shares and have no backroom access at the share site, I can only see what us shareholders can see.

Ok, fair enuf... my mistake on calling you the issuer...

I have noticed on the news page, earlier, that the issuer did sell a bunch of shares for ALTSWAP... sucks we can't get a fuller list beyond the last 5, like we can the other sections, or I'd copy/paste them to you, so something is going on anyways...

I can't rule out something going on that the public isn't intended to see... which is about as neutral as I can state that right now, so, will leave it at that.

=squeak=

could you explain what is going on?  Trades stopped. Dead line is coming and these are the recent trades


Date    Type    Price    Quantity    Amount    
February 24, 2014 11:31   Buy   0.000001   825   0.000825   BTC
February 24, 2014 11:29   Buy   0.000001   6,000   0.006000   BTC
February 24, 2014 11:29   Buy   0.000001   270   0.000270   BTC
February 24, 2014 11:27   Buy   0.000001   10,000   0.010000   BTC
February 24, 2014 11:25   Buy   0.000001   290   0.000290   BTC
February 24, 2014 11:24   Buy   0.000001   3,400   0.003400   BTC
February 24, 2014 11:22   Buy   0.000001   70   0.000070   BTC
February 24, 2014 11:21   Buy   0.000001   1,700   0.001700   BTC
February 24, 2014 11:13   Buy   0.000001   20,000   0.020000   BTC
February 23, 2014 23:22   Buy   0.005000   5   0.025000   BTC
February 23, 2014 14:22   Buy   0.005000   1   0.005000   BTC

i would like to buy some at 0.000001 now

Earlier today a vulnerability was found in the Cryptostocks system and a hacker took advantage of it by putting the current shares on sale for a ridiculously low price. As soon as I saw what was going on, I halted trading and took the shares off of the market.

We are in talks with Cryptostocks to get the shares nulled and bitcoin returned to those who purchased them and aid in their security issue. Rest assured, no dividends will be paid out until the share situation is sorted out so as not to unintentionally dilute your dividends.

Fortunately, less than 1 bitcoin was profited off of this endeavor.

I'll be updating all shareholders as Cryptostocks responds to the incident.

What's your relation to FireMine?
Why are they using info@Altswap.com as their email?
Why did they "mistakengly" have [ALTSWAP] as a header of one of their news announcement (which is now down)? (Damn Copy Paste, ah?)

Smells like a definite scam... Oh well, there goes 0.1 BTC of Altswap shares I was stupid enough to buy.
LOOK OUT FROM FIREMINE AS WELL!!!! Thank god I didn't buy their shares as well.

EDIT: I'm not the only one to notice that: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=472265.0

I'm watching this closely. 

I was hired by altswap recently to head customer service, and I too am a share holder and saw the crazy sell-off yesterday.  I'm working with cryptostocks.com to find out who it was and ip addresses of those that changed the stock price to 0.000001 and also who cashed out the profits from that sale.  Also will be looking into firemine.com to see who they are and why they are using our email address.  I know the CEO of altswap, never met him, but know his info extensively as I did research before accepting the job.  We will not allow theft and if that is what happened, we will find a way to repair this.

Any more info like the poster above would help me greatly.

I still don't know if it's a 100% scam or not, but like I said, sure smells like one (I would give it a 95% chance).
Anyway - the person you've vetted isn't necessarily the person you were in contact with.
It's easy to use an identity of some guy with an impressive LinkedIn profile...

True but I have phone info and address checks out but you could be right.  Here is something interesting though... can someone see if they can send an email to.... 

 customerservice@cryptostocks.com

Every email I send is immediately bounced

Sent an email and received an auto reply:
"Dear user, we are have quite a backlog of emails to answer and thus please bear with us, we will surely come back to you but this might take a few days. We hope to have completed the backlog by latest Monday next week."

VERY IMPORTANT

There is a severe flaw that needs to be addressed.  If you have any stocks there I'd pull it and fast... I don't want to say the exact security flaw but i just tried it and it indeed is a SERIOUS SECURITY ISSUE.  If you have any stocks with Cryptostocks, you should take IMMEDIATE ACTION!!!  I am trying to say this without giving the exact details but even your 2FA is not safe.  There are lots of stocks being devalued and sold which is reducing the price of shares by 10000%.  Don't know what else I can say.

PM me for details

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=488669.new#new

check here....

altswap is forging ahead

WTF is happening with this site?

Bump

Indeed- what is happening? The owners need to launch the site asap to get some confidence back in this stock. Too many shady ipo's right now in crypto- the only proof of legitimacy is actually having a working model.
It's a shame if this doesn't get of the ground, because the escrow service is something that would really work well- a great domain name for that purpose too.

The leadership team is talking this over and we are figuring out the best way to go about handling the stock issue. We will be doing a soft launch to test traffic control on the server and the system with just BTC/LTC soon so be on the lookout for that.

I'll be sending out both an email and forum notification for both of the things listed above.

When is soon you have had 1 month already?

I can't believe the nerve on these scammers...
They've just halted trading on Firemine and started a new scam-share going...
https://cryptostocks.com/securities/104

BE CAREFUL WHERE YOU PUT YOUR BITCOINS!!!

First of all, I do not personally manage the FireMine or MineCo shares - a friend of mine has control and management over those (but only through me - not directly).

AltSwap is finishing up implementation of our deposit/withdrawl/pending pages and the deposit page (which still has the automatic addresses coming soon) can be seen here: http://www.altswap.com/fund.html

We will release the links to the other pages soon and begin the soft launch trading period between BTC and LTC very soon. The bricks are falling into place and soon the entire trading structure will have its new face. Thank you all for your patience.

A note to all shareholders of AltSwap on Cryptostocks: Please ENABLE the disclosure of your email on the website in your account settings. We will be sending out a message to all shareholders regarding how we will be handling the shares purchased at a lower price regarding the addition of 'free' shares. This may be very complicated for some to understand, but on a basic level we will be multiplying your holdings by a mathematically determined factor. A more detailed explanation will be provided in the email. Please activate the disclosure of email option so that we may directly contact you about holdings.

So you let a "friend of yours" log in with the same email you're logging in to manage the Altswap share? LOL. Great move (obviously you're full of crap).

Anyway, I'm sure there will be a flood of traders joining your secure exchange managed by someone who couldn't secure an email...
Good luck with that.
Bye bye 0.1 BTC for me

Hey there guys.  I noticed that some people that had shares in this got burned by a hacker on cryptostocks.   Well it would seem that your other shares are not safe either. I just tried to log in to cryptostocks only to realize i cannot.  I went to my e-mail and all of my shares were sold off at market price.  my passwords for everything are different and they didnt get access to my e-mail.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=488669.new#new

Make sure your email is secure even if you have 2fa.

I would suggest being more than just secure with your email. Unfortunately, these hackers don't seem to leave any trace other than their Bitcoin address (which doesn't mean much). They also will get into your email relatively easy so if you can use a provider with 2FA on your email as well - that would be ideal. Cryptostocks should have their bases covered but unfortunately they do not and I feel for the person who lost their shares in whatever company that it was.

Please read the thread link above and send messages to Cryptostocks telling them to implement 2FA on their password resets - it will fix all of these problems.

Can you guys show you even have exchange trading engine on the altswap.
Or how it will be working?

I mean if you have so much to do, how you can start new project MINECO

omg, how the hell can you do that, i bought shares at 0.005 and now they're being sold in thousands at 0.00001 each now. this looks like a scam to me.

The mechanics of the site will work much like escrow already does but on a much larger scale. You will see in a few days that, when BTC are deposited there will be a grace period while we wait for confirmation on your deposit.

Your BTC will be taken to an offline wallet and put into cold storage until you put it up for trade and someone trades you another coin for it. This means that there will be a 100% guarantee that they have the coins they traded for your actual BTC since AltSwap will ultimately have control over both ends of the deal until a withdrawal request is made. At the time of withdrawal, an additional check is also made to assure that coins actually belong to the account holder.

Please note our notice on the website that the shares being purchased at these insanely low prices are not included in our dividend payouts. We are moving our payouts offline and have published a notice on Cryptostocks that no shares should be purchased. The security flaws on their website have forced us to pay out dividends using our own methods. PLEASE enable your email under account settings so that we may view them and send you direct instructions on how to claim your dividends.

OMG  :o
March 05, 2014 10:29   Sell   0.000001   9,989   0.009989   BTC
March 05, 2014 10:29   Sell   0.000001   34   0.000034   BTC
March 05, 2014 10:29   Sell   0.000001   40   0.000040   BTC
March 05, 2014 10:29   Sell   0.000001   5,203   0.005203   BTC
March 05, 2014 10:29   Sell   0.000001   4,797   0.004797   BTC
...trade stop.

I'm glad I have no any your shares.
Good luck with your new project MINECO, I'm out.
I think cryptostock may need some kind of system to filter scam projects out.

Edit: Oh, just noticed you info
Really hope you are making good service for altcoins.
There is so may scams, but not so many working services.
Good luck to you.

Thanks for the encouragement :) We want to make sure this is done right and instead of giving dates out left and right and canceling them like most others, we have decided to keep dates at a minimum and focus on getting this reskinned and perfected.

you do realize that the following announcement is on cryptostocks dont you?

"[ALTSWAP] Altswap will be delisted tomorrow!
Hi investors,

Altswap shares will be delisted tomorrow. I'm sorry for your loss but we had a huge electricity bill for our servers this month and we spent the rest for alcohol and whores.

Faithfully
AltSwap Team"

awfully bad joke I have to say...

It shows you the type of people that both we and Cryptostocks are dealing with...

We have since changed the announcement to read what it originally did.

um.. yeah... screw the additional hassle about how you're going to do dividends... at this point, I'd just rather sell of my 6 shares and keep my email address to myself. Especially since that email is never used for direct correspondence.

=squeak=

yo i cant trade in my shares because "the project owner has insufficient funds". wtf is this?

Yeah, this is smelling more and more like a scam with every passing day.  I too am still receiving this error...and obviously not collecting mineco dividends. 

*Be very leary of anything relating to this asset/stock.  Altswap included.  Looks like a trifecta scam at this point.

lol, looks like a scam to me. I haven't received any email by altswap yet.

Well heck...if the "leadership team" is taking over everything is sure to be fine right?

Look, avoid Altswap, firemine, and mineco.  From what I can see, they all appear to be a scam.  Have been unable to transfer existing shares to mineco from firemine from sometime.  And highly suspect behavior going on around all 3 assets imho.

The shares were not upgradeable since we incur a fee every time someone wishes to upgrade their shares. We have deposited more money into our account so that all of you that are having trouble upgrading your shares should be able to get them transferred over and upgraded.

message is still there, cant upgrade. how much did you put in, 10 satoshi? i demand to receive all respective dividend payments since i was originally trying to upgrade which was before the first dividend payment. please pm me and prove that this is not a scam

Interesting.
So now it's "WE".

Yesterday it wasn't "WE" it was "a friend" which you had nothing to do with.

Get your story straight, man.
You've made a nice chunk of BTCs from this crap scams - walk while you're ahead and stop messing with people here.

Transferred over?

Where, specifically, are they intended to be transferred to?

=squeak=

AltSwap shares are not going anywhere. We have halted trading and may distribute dividends manually if Cryptostocks does not up their security. We are in the process of getting deposits and withdrawals working as I type this and you will all be updated to test this feature when it is completed (with small amounts only of course).

yo unless you don't make sure that i can convert my shares to the new ones (and make sure that i dont miss any dividends) i call this a scam. you collect money then apparently it wasn't enough or people didn't buy your overpriced shares so you decided to use a new "company". you can still solve this, just reimburse me, otherwise i haven't had any bad experience with you or your affiliates.

Just got a PM response from firemine/mineco owner regarding why I can't transfer my shares.  Here was his response:


*This makes 0-sense, my recommendation is that you avoid firemine, mineco, and altswap until these things get resolved one way or another.  Altswap share multiplication also hasn't happened.  All three definately looking very scammish at this point.

**Just tried to transfer a single share of firemine, and got same error message.  Ask your self this:
"If the owner of firemine/mineco is unable to cover fee's required to upgrade a single share...do you really think he's going to payout regular dividends or run anything even remotely resembling a well run business?  I think not!!"

There is a 0.005 BTC fee that the owner of shares (yes, that is the person you purchased them from - not you) must pay for every upgrade you make. Please read on Cryptostocks website about this.

Right, my point is...if they can't even cover a simple 0.005 to transfer a single share (yes, I have enough to cover my 0.01 part as well) then how in hades are they expecting to run a legitimate BTC asset?  Or three?!  imho it's looking like they aren't...definitely smells scammy

*I have tried to transfer a single share several times over the past 3 days and not once has the owner of the asset had 0.005 to cover the transfer costs?!?!  Just the dividends he or she hasn't been paying out these past couple of days should be enough to cover that.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news for the people calling this a scam but I've created a topic here for the share buyback of FireMine shares: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=504448.new#new

Let's get the discussion back to AltSwap and the fact that deposits will be working by dusk and withdrawals soon after :)

If you're not involved with FireMine, why are you making topics for them?

and I still have not heard adequate justification for wanting our email addresses...

So far all I'm seeing is bits and pieces scattered around, and I STILL can't bring up the company's page on cryptostocks (and I sent in an email to support about it)

So... how about you put everything relevant to what you're doing right now, into a single post, from start to finish, about what your intentions are right now, particularly WHY you need our emails in order to do it.

=squeak=

Your email is the only way for anyone to verify that you actually own the shares that you say you own.

For what purpose?

=squeak=

edit: PLEASE NOTE... I asked for a COMPLETE posting... not any more if this disconnected piecemeal crap that is happening. Cuz right now, ALTSWAP doesn't look any more trustworthy than ALTSWAP is accusing CryptoStocks of being. So, you're going to have to do better than this. This is no way to start a new service, which requires the trust of the people participating on it, while you leave this stink cloud hovering all around ALTSWAP... so... be very specific... WHAT do you need my email for, and what else is going on, and what is the connection between the other issues being called a scam, that your domain name is connected to? This is full disclosure time. Step up.

There is a spreadsheet that Cryptostocks supplies with email addresses of all shareholders and their shares if they have chosen to show their email (most have).

and you again, sidestep what you're being asked... tell us something that isn't in CryptoStock's FAQ about how things on their exchange works.

something about why --> YOU <-- are needing it and for what purpose?

quit being a little bitch about it.

=squeak=

There will always be a new lame explanation...

Absolutely...

And how about this "Transfer your shares to Mineco" bs.  How does one even transfer shares?  Shouldnt --> YOU <-- (the business) be responsible for transferring our shares over?  I didn't hack Cryptostocks...  So why should I now have to fix up the mess of your shares?  Not that you hacked Cryptostocks...  But why inconvenience ALL of your shareholders???  doesnt make sense...

Altswap looked prime prior to launch.  It had a fancy count-down robot on the website.  Now it just sits how it has sat for.. what? over a month now?

Exactly...

I was very much looking forward to this service opening up, and even bought shares in it, but the longer this fiasco goes on, and the more the so-called CEO dodges reasonable questions, the more scammed I'm feeling, and it'll be a cold day in hell before I give him my email at this point, when I have no confidence in him.

This isn't personal. This is business.

He is asking us for OUR money to help get this off the ground, and we get treated dismissively as if we're nothing.

He has an obligation to us to be up-front about what is going on, in detail.

He's not doing so... so what other choice do we have at this point, but to think of this venture as nothing more than just another scam that ripped us off?

I suppose promising a dividend before there was even any income, much less, profit, was enough of a red flag. Unfortunately, I didn't see that part before I invested.

I personally haven't had any issues with CryptoStocks, so I can't take the accusations about CryptoStocks at their word. My experience with CryptoStocks, counts for more, than my experience with ALTSWAP at this point.

=squeak=

I have lost 2 BTC buying your stock.

I just had a look, WTF

Issue Date   Number of shares         
05 Mar 18:28   100,000
05 Mar 18:27   4,000
28 Jan 02:11   50,000

Why was there a additional 104k shares?

Also what is happening with this site?

Alright "squeak," I'll directly address you since that seems to be what you would like but this message pertains to everyone as well - the doubters and the faithful.

First of all, hopefully that "cold day in hell" will be pretty soon after the launch day since it is the only way that we can verify you as a shareholder and send you your dividend. We would love for all of our shareholders to receive their dividends as they have rightfully earned and this won't be an issue if everyone is as passionate as you are. Also, I can't seem to fathom why anyone would be so secure about their email address when BitcoinTalk, Cryptostocks, and even the NSA have easy access to it - we aren't asking you to give us your social security number...just a simple email so that we are able to send you money. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me but we won't force you to do it :)

Secondly, I'm sorry if you feel dismissed at all. In fact, I'm a little taken aback that you feel that way. Let's face the facts for a second. I have your money in my hand - why should I even stick around any more? If this is a scam, shouldn't I be blowing every penny in Vegas right now? Unfortunately, that isn't the case. I'm here to answer questions and concerns and deliver the best exchange I can. Our support head, Jeran, has done an amazing job of being on live chat on the website and answering countless emails about logistics of the exchange. I cannot express enough how much I appreciate his help through all of this! So the scam accusations? They really aren't valid unless I've fled, and I haven't - development is still going hard and we are all in this together (High School Musical reference for the kids).

Thirdly, I'm human - I do make mistakes. One was trusting a site that had almost no security on it's password reset function. Another was setting an initial launch date that we were forced to rescind because a huge redesign needed to take place before the official date. There is a reason that no new dates have been provided and that was the main reason why. I realize that it is frustrating because I feel the same frustration. This is my project and my 'baby' that I'm extremely excited about being able to present to the public and every day that it isn't ready for debut is annoyingly flustering for me as much (and a lot more) than for investors and users.

Finally, I want to take a moment and thank everyone that has sent me emails, messages, and everything else stating their continued support and excitement for the project. You guys are the ones that keep us coding and perfecting every day. You guys are the ones that put smiles on our faces and let us know that there are some really awesome people out there in the world. For those of you who are thinking this way and haven't sent me a message on here with your encouragement because you think it would be lame or whatnot - do it! Every one of them that I read makes me grin from cheek to cheek with happiness.

I love you guys! I'll end it there before this gets too 'lovey' :) <3\

By the way, whoever has hacked the Cryptostocks account, thanks for posting the above on Cryptostocks :)

You have still not addressed any issues. You have not verified any of your allegations against cryptostocks. You keep blaiming, stating even on your edit, here that your cryptostocks ccount in not under your control, yet you have shown no proof of that so far. No other listing reported anything, apart the ones that were connected to you guys have been affected.


What is happening with your listing?
One moment you are claiming all is ok, and on the other you are claiming you are moving.
How can you validate the owners of your shares, and pay their dividents? The divients will not be paid through cryptostocks?
Why is there NO PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT ANYWHERE about what you are planning to do with our shares? You are openly blackmailing everyone holding those shares because you fucked up.


Why dont you guys start first with posting all your personal data. You seem to believe that you can be trusted more than the NSA?
Some of us don want to give out our emails everywhere, your plan is to blackmail us into it?

I am publicly announcing everything going on right now. I'll address you directly as well.

The Cryptostocks account is not solely under my control. I have issued many warnings to all of the Cryptostocks users and to the BitcoinTalk users that buying shares will NOT be honored at this point because we pulled the lists a long time ago. Occasionally the hacker will put up a notice that contradicts something I have said and I change it as soon as possible to avoid confusion. However, if I haven't gotten to it yet and if you see something that contradicts what I have said on Cryptostocks it should not concern you. The unfortunate part is that the person who is hacking into Cryptostocks is acting pretty childish instead of contacting me directly so that we can figure out what is bothering him/her/it. I prefer to have grown-up conversations with respectable people since (hopefully) we are all adults here.

The listing has long since been abandoned and we will be divvying up profits using our own method, whether it will be manual or automatic on our side we don't know. What we DO know is that focusing on the exchange development and rolling out more functionality is the priority right now. When we start bringing in profits we will notify you on how you will receive them (all directly to your wallet of course).

Who is controlling that account on cryptostocks?
How can he take control by exploiting a feature that you say he can, BUT YOU CANNOT DO THE SAME TO REGAIN CONTROL???

What will you do with our shares?
Why is there a trade enabled on your listing to trade your altswap shares for firemine shares? Why would we do that?

How can you pay us dividents, and how can you prove what we hold?
The point in trading at cryptostocks is the protection of my anonymity.
If i wanted to trade with my social security number, i would act accordingly.

Still no answering to any of the issues you are making your shareholders face. You think that you are legit, because you simply say so?
You will not even be the only one seeing my email, every issuer will see it.

EDIT: Judging by the fact that YOUR OWN EMAIL WAS ALLEGEDLY HACKED, do you still not fathom why we cant trust this on anyone?

Who is controlling that account on cryptostocks?
How can he take control by exploiting a feature that you say he can, BUT YOU CANNOT DO THE SAME TO REGAIN CONTROL???

The account was compromised through means of a password reset and it is done over and over again. The hacker clearly has more knowledge of Cryptostocks and their security than I do because every time I reset the password and lock the account up, it is hacked again. I've done it from multiple computers, multiple IPs, and multiple areas yet the account is still compromised. Make up your own assumptions on how this is done but I always have control just as much as this person (you saying "he" was really sexist by the way - I thought our world had passed that stage).

What will you do with our shares?
Why is there a trade enabled on your listing to trade your altswap shares for firemine shares? Why would we do that?

The trade is NOT enabled. Once again, if things change from trading disabled to enabled, it is not my doing. I have no reason to continue trading and using their site. So if you are still trading AltSwap on Cryptostocks, it is merely for your own fun I suppose. Your shares have already been downloaded on multiple dates to a spreadsheet. They aren't going anywhere because we still have hard copies of them.

How can you pay us dividents, and how can you prove what we hold?
The point in trading at cryptostocks is the protection of my anonymity.
If i wanted to trade with my social security number, i would act accordingly.

How can you prove that you are a male or a female or that you live in California or New York? It is the internet - nothing can be proven without some degree of doubt. We have downloaded the files on multiple occasions of shareholders and will work with those along with an algorithm (5000x for original shareholders and 1x for post-IPO shareholders) to be sure that everyone is paid fairly. We can't prove that you hold any shares at all. That was a nice feature of Cryptostocks but unfortunately I've lost all faith in their system anyways so your email might as well be strapped to the front page of their website.

Still no answering to any of the issues you are making your shareholders face. You think that you are legit, because you simply say so?

I don't need to think that I am or am not legitimately giving you this information - that is totally up to you to decide. If you think I'm a fraud, that's fine. Fortunately, there are a lot of great investors that are waiting just as anxiously yet patiently as I am to launch AltSwap. They are the bread and butter of Bitcoin and the reason that cryptocurrencies will thrive in the future :) Thanks to all of you for keeping the spirit alive!

So you are saying that you cant trust CS, because you got your email hacked.

And we cannot receive dividents, because you claim that the site is not safe? You messed up, nobody else.
You also do not control your email? because apparently that email controls more than your CS listings.

How will the dividents be shared?
Why is there NO PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT ON ANY PAGE OF ANY OF YOUR PRODUCTS OR LISTINGS?
Why dont you answer all the questions and not just a part of them?

trade in seems active to me, no?
https://i.imgur.com/BN2bk2i.png

You are just blackmailing us.
There was an announcement you made, you failed it, now you are manipulating multiple listings to make even more out of it.
In the process you are actively blaiming your failure to others, and you are holding your shareholders' money as ransom.

Since you cant control the CS account, how on earth can you pay us?
Why are you not clear with anything?

I asked all "3" of you, and you gave me three different answers, only because you fuckups(sorry i got emotional there) were asked from different emails.


CounterEdit: You know what is the funniest part with your lame excuses?
The fact that you claim there is a hacker who can bypass the CS login, and has only done this to your projects.
Like as if there are not any better projects there to exploit, just your listings, they were the ones worth of an exploit.. ;D

-------------------------------
Edited for artistic clarification
You already had launched and internally traded digimine, according to its trading history.
Did you accidentally realise that through your listings you also acknowledge the fact that you are the same person running them all, so you deleted them??

got 1k altswap ( bought @ 20000 satoshi a pice )
and 14 firemine shares ( bought @ ipo )

filled in survay
mailed them on all mails

no responds @ all

ty for scamming me i gess hope u are happy whit the btc ) u raped a lot of us ( hope u can smile )

Once again, I'm appalled at the sexism at something that really doesn't involve gender...

Anyways, I am not dealing directly with the shares of anything other than AltSwap so I'm sure your other shares will be paid for soon. I'm aware that some have already been refunded.

Let's cut the gender-specific talk though. This is 2014.

I see you're still trashing people who got scammed because of the lax security over at cryptostocks.  Did you even own shares from them or  are you just trashing them to take attention away from the security problems that are clearly going on with cryptostocks??.   My shares of completely different companies than ALTSWAP and FIREMINE went missing because cryptostocks is vulnerable.  They are somehow resetting the password and they don't need e-mail access.  Like i said before i had the password reset email in my inbox unopened from when i got scammed.    They didnt have e-mail access to my account and they still reset my password.  I assume they are intercepting the password reset emails somehow however I cannot prove it because i dont know enough about security.  Hopefully someone that doesnt seem to have an agenda and knows more about security could comment on how this would be possible.?.?

You funny kid ;D

This is the internet, you twat. Do your socks help you with that?
We all know you are altswap/firemine/mineco/digimine
Lets go again, this time with images:
ALTSWAP:
----------
----------
FIREMINE:
----------
MINECO:
----------
MINECO:
----------
ALTSWAP:
----------
DIGIMINE:
----------
Your announcements last nignt, before you deleted them:
----------
Do tell me more, i am only ears for your stories! How armies of hackers roam at your products, how your supporters are flooding you with support mails, how high you will take your investors. "A team of coders" my ass.

@coinerjoe, i know you are his alt/sock.
in fact, ive been screengrabing your post history too, i am in the process of showing that most of the money you pick up through CS, you dump them on ponziplays.

Proof, tits, or GTFO

Suck it up, princess and get over it... keep your attention on the items in this thread that ACTUALLY matter...

=squeak=

lol the more that unintelligent SZZT talks the more im convinced hes a scammer.  I have no other bitcointalk accounts you obtuse moron and i dont even own enough bitcoin worth mentioning let alone enough to run some sort of ponzi that you suggest.  Seriously you might be the stuipdest poster on this entire internet.  Lol, you are going to go through my post history to prove what exactly?  That you are in fact a retard?   Gotta love it.  I post on here cause i got scammed by the lax security at cryptostocks because of a similar security issue where A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT STOCK ON CRYPTOSTOCKS that i held was automatically sold off and the bitcoin was taken out of my account you uneducated fool.  Maybe you should stop trying to read and get somebody who can read more than 4 letter words to translate for you because clearly it's much too difficult of someone with your limited intelligence!  How many other moronic comments are you going to make that prove just how unintelligent you are. 

Fuck 'sexism' - stop cherrypicking irrelevant details to mince upon - you're a fucking fraud or BRUTALLY incompetent, and I reckon both.

YOU are the pox on cryptocurrencies.

any one got information about them

europ has a law that make,s stealing of virtual property iligal

i have a family of lawyers and it wouldn't cost me shit to do so so :) ( no need for donations ) just need info on them

I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that we've stolen anything. I am actively still here and actively developing the site...

Everyone is being provided with updates about the site.

Also, for those who were affected, there is a thread here regarding the buyback of other shares. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=504448.0

I'm getting the idea by the fact that you have created multiple fake listings and you are eating away people's coins.
I'm getting the idea by the fact that several people in here have asked you specific questions and you dismissed every one.
I'm getting the idea by the fact that you have been caught lying multiple times and in order to cover yourself and to put the blame on others you created a story.

You are actively scamming people, faking listings on CS, accusing others without any evidence whatsoever.

You have no site, other than the ones you were trying to sell with the first posts of your sock.
You only have a mockup that was copypasted from btce, do you remember how early posters were noting that? Good luck editing those posts.
You were asked for proof, and your proof was a "video" that people had to download on their computers to see. I feel sorry for those that do.

You have shown no real proof of your work, not even of what could be delaying you. On your fake mining projects,
you take away their coins and you pay them from what the next one in the scheme puts in.

So yeah, that's why you look like that.
So,
Why is there a trade-in of altswap stock, for firemine stock? For what reason would we trade shares of an exchange, for shares of a mining project?

Why did you delete the listings of altswap and firemine regarding digimine? And after you explain why they were deleted, please explain why you posted them anyway.

Why did you not post ANY ANNOUNCEMENT anywhere, on ANY SITE, (this one, CS and the pages of altswap) regarding the proofs you hold for your claims of hacking?

Why did you not create the mineco/firemine/digimine/altswap listings under one account?

Why do you keep avoiding questions?  ;D

Because there are no answers of any substance that has anything to do with reality.

=squeak=

Hello?

You are still here ignoring pertinent questions, and dragging this out under cover of psuedonym.


WE DON'T NEED ANOTHER EXCHANGE.

On top of that, at LEAST eight exchanges have come out since you lured shortsighted 'investors' to 'invest' in your fraud.

HOW could ANY person who has given you BTC have done ANYTHING but LOSE from this venture?

...I am not one of those people.

I am, I believe - and this shit is new to me, so bear with me - a 'troll' in this particular situation.


I watched this listing just because of how brutally shady it was.

...please prove me wrong.

I'd throw you a shovel, but there's too much dirt on top to be sure where you are...

Honestly... I've heard the accusations he made against CryptoStocks... and while CryptoStocks/VircureX has had their issues, my dealings with the guys running them have all been handled, and I found them very responsive.

From the description, it sounded like this issuer's "problem" revolved around the security of his own email address... and the way he described how the "hacker" kept regaining control of the issues (and yeah, very valid point made earlier about there being other issues that would be much more tempting targets, so it seems to support the idea that the "hackers" went after what they had access to, which was this issuer's listings...)... the way he described it, sounds like his own computer is compromised.

That is, assuming we actually believe in this hacker story... which I'm increasingly finding unbelievable with everything else that is or isn't happening alongside it.

I've only risked 0.03 BTC on this (not counting fees), so... I guess I dodged a bullet there... I was about to buy up a little over 1 BTC worth of shares on top of it, when I noticed the problems with the listing, including the fact that I still do not have access to any of the ALTSWAP information on CS to this day.

I really wanted this "exchange" to succeed. I was ready to move some of my coin over to daytrade on it. This was an issue that looked promising on the surface, until everything surrounding it started screaming "SHADY"... including the overly-aggressive push about dividends coming, when the exchange hasn't even been able to make a single satoshi and has never even opened yet.

I'm not a hater. I don't get personal about any of the issues I invest in, or any exchange I trade in.

This is business, plain and simple, and this "business", now looks like a loser for my investment, and I do not trust the exchange enough to even consider sending coin there to trade at, assuming it ever opens at all, which looks like it never will.

So... as for my "dividends" that seems to be such a big deal... you can pay my dividends at any time... through CryptoStocks, where my portfolio is, and where your issue is still actually listed at.

If such a time as you relist ALTSWAP at a different exchange, then I will deal with that exchange to be properly credited for the ALTSWAP shares I currently own, and expect to get dividends there too.

Any dividends my shares have earned, that are unable to be paid out for whatever reason you happen to dream up, I expect to be held and kept aside, until such time as you pull your head out of your ass and handle your business properly.

You not having my email, is not any kind of justification to forfeit any dividend my shares earn, and you do not get to keep them. It isn't your dividend to keep, it is mine.

So... if I'm actually wrong here... and at present, I can't see a scenario, with what we know so far, where I am wrong about this... and you get your shit together and handle your business properly instead of the current "I don't know wtf I'm doing or how to conduct business" approach you're doing now, and actually open the exchange, succeed, and do so in a trustworthy and respectable fashion? Then I expect my past accrued dividend to still be available to be paid.

And if not? Then you're exactly what myself, and so many others here, think you are.

=squeak=

We are looking into every possible way to get you dividends on automatically without revealing your email and without moving your shares. You have made it clear that your anonymity is key and we will honor that. We have posted another thread where screenshots of the exchange (2 design generations) and other info has been posted. I encourage you to check it out.

Don't tell me, show me.

Set up a test version with what you have so far, and let some of us beta-test the site with testnet coin.

Anybody can photoshop a screenshot.

=squeak=

It isn't a screenshot - a four year old could have thrown together a screenshot. That's why I included many different elements of the site within the screenshot array (you've got to admit - there are a ton of screenshots there). I can also post a video demo of the trading if you would like :) The soft launch will come, yes but will a video help authenticate the site in your mind a little more? I understand your reservations so I am trying to squash them. Let me know about the video demo.

Why would a video, or a shooped image prove anything?? Why would we download stuff from you?

Your actions prove more. Your inactions even more. You have been lying to every person and taking their money
using illegitimate methods, lies, accusations and more lies on top.

You just keep creating names, listings excuses and threads, faking your way in peoples wallets/

Every single service that started through this forum has tried to keep a clean and informed thread. There are projects out there that are sending people in this forum for information on their products.

You are doing the exact opposite. Your new thread is the third for altswap, or fourth? you dont seem to like alot of info in one place, do you?
In your new thread you posted some questions that you would like others to have asked, and answered them yourself.


In the meantime here, actual questions, from actual people that actually bought your lies are being actively ignored as you
actively steal more money through you latest fake listing Digimine.

You proved you can make easy money like a pro, i'll give you that ;D

PS: I can make a video with aliens trading bitcoins with satoshi & john f kennedy, send me 3 btc in my sig and i;ll let you download it.

For those of you that do wish to see a video, I'd love to hear from you. The following poster does not.

Why would a video, or a shooped image prove anything?? Why would we download stuff from you?

Not sure what a shooped image is but a video holds quite a bit of merit when it comes to showing shareholders and interested users how things work. Why do you think I would make you download something? It will either be imbedded or a simple link to a trusted site to view the video. I'll do it for the people out there that would appreciate it though :)

Your actions prove more. Your inactions even more. You have been lying to every person and taking their money
using illegitimate methods, lies, accusations and more lies on top.

You just keep creating names, listings excuses and threads, faking your way in peoples wallets/

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I have only one (1) forum account. You are currently one of the only ones pushing that this joe guy who claims to also have problems is the same account holder. I have no clue who that is but I really shouldn't expect much on your end since a lot of it seems like I'm speaking to a brick wall. Believe what you will, I'm telling you from my one (1) forum account.

Every single service that started through this forum has tried to keep a clean and informed thread. There are projects out there that are sending people in this forum for information on their products.

I can't comprehend the crazy sentence structure here so I can't respond to it. Are you saying that I'm trying to keep a dirty thread? You'd be completely opposite of the truth.

You are doing the exact opposite. Your new thread is the third for altswap, or fourth? you dont seem to like alot of info in one place, do you?
In your new thread you posted some questions that you would like others to have asked, and answered them yourself.

Wait, you are saying that some of the very questions that you have asked are made up? I can remove them if you'd like but I think they are answering vital things that people have asked.

In the meantime here, actual questions, from actual people that actually bought your lies are being actively ignored as you
actively steal more money through you latest fake listing Digimine.

Again, a brick wall. I've already spoken multiple times on this and have politely requested that the share buyback and questions related to things other than AltSwap be taken to the proper thread. I haven't lied about the other companies listed on our account, I've been very open and even put it in the Q&A. Furthermore, Cryptostocks does not say anything about having multiple companies on one account. However, it is being fixed with the buyback as I type this.

You proved you can make easy money like a pro, i'll give you that Grin

PS: I can make a video with aliens trading bitcoins with satoshi & john f kennedy, send me 3 btc in my sig and i;ll let you download it.

I've already addressed the fact that there won't be any download so hopefully you won't waste your time sending me a download link to your beautiful alien video. :)

selectively picking only the parts of the questions you like, does not work
go back to your tree.
You already pushed a download link. .

You already listed at least 4 different projects and you made it look like you were 4 different persons. You have posts IN THIS THREAD that are denying that,
yet you have been caught admitting it.

I posted enough pics from your fake listings, and enough questions. And i;m not the only one to ask.
You answered to none of us. We have been asking specific things, and you were pretending to feel sexism you fucking twat ;D, trying to dodge our questions.

lies, lies, lies.
Dont worry, by the time you will have altwap up and running, none of these posts regarding what a SCAM you and ALTSWAP/FIREMINE/MINECO/DIGIMINE will still be showing on google..

PS your iPhone 5s does not help with the interwebz, you should have known better. Actually, it makes it worse, u r now being watched.

I already told you what would be convincing to me at this point... screenshots and videos? They're just show.

Keep in mind, this community has a MUCH higher proportion of intelligent people who know something about coding and how systems should work. Also keep in mind that there is a huge amount of skepticism in this community after how often people have tried to pull scams.

Screenshots, images, videos, whatever... all can be faked.

Set up a testing platform for us to see with our own eyes.

This would also give you the additional benefit, of having more people try to compromise it, and report what they find, so you can work on your own security as well.

Anything less is just smoke and mirrors at this point.

=squeak=