Bitcoin Forum

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8uNkcvtRtA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8uNkcvtRtA)

You  have to admit that it was actually a big step for Ver to come forward and apologise for his conduct during the infamous "Rage Video". We all know he did not have to do it but it was a step in the right direction. Personally I think it falls short because there is less apologising and more blaming the other party going on but nevertheless he stated why aspects of that interview got to him and he lost his temper.

Now when it comes to Ver and what people perceive as his failed attempt to take over Bitcoin and his current attempt to disrupt Bitcoin by trying to conflate it with Bitcoin Cash, I am with the majority in that what he has done and what he is doing is wrong but when someone tries to make some amends it should be appreciated and accepted by the community. Sure, his apology was all about his conduct during the Rage Interview and not about him creating confusion with his bitcoin.com domain but that might be a start, an avenue to a new beginning which might result in Ver being welcomed back to the community with open arms as long as he changes slowly but surely towards helping Bitcoin while still keeping and promoting his Bitcoin Cash.

Though Bitcoin is king and will remain for many years to come the truth is Bitcoin would be a little stronger having Ver advocating it and promoting it. Bitcoin will go on and move forward regardless of whether Ver is on its side or not but having someone with his profile and history (the positive parts) to promote Bitcoin will only be a good move. This morning I spent an hour or so looking at his posts from when as a newbie here. There was no indication at that time that he would be so disliked in the community because he was so helpful promoting Bitcoin with billboards and radio ads that he paid for, surely that counts for something.

Something obviously went wrong in the thinking and psyche of Ver which was the reason why he began to have a dislike of Bitcoin. If there is any way to get Ver back on side then it will be a win-win situation all round.

Does anybody know the actual specific grievances Ver has with the Bitcoin developers apart from fees, transaction times and block size?

As much as I dislike BCH and disregarding everything else in the debate, John Carvalho was kinda childish in my opinion. Saying "Bcash bcash bcash" in a mocking manner is a quite childish move when having a debate, whether or not he is right or not.

Putting down Bitcoin publicly is for only 1 reason for him: his own interest, for money. His attempt to disrupt Bitcoin is also followed by the majority of the BCH community following the same path and using the same method. Will we see all of the BCH trolls apologies in public as well? No. He did it for a very long time now and he doesn't deserve some sympathy for this video

Bitcoin doesn't need Roger Ver to advocate anymore. We are fine without him

Agreed. This guy in the rage video is a huge douche.

it's nice he has apologized, but what is most disturbing is to see the person really cares about his ego and money more than anything other, he's no better than 99% of this community

Yeah there are some thinly veiled insults in there for sure. He shouldn't attack Bitcoin, that shouldn't come from a major BCH supporter. Bashing the competition never makes you or what you are supporting look good. Quite the contrary actually. If BCH is that great, then the free market will decide. It should be able to stand on its own merit, and it does.

Never bash the competition. Playfully is ok, jokingly sure, but the way he does it is unacceptable as a representative of BCH.

Agreed, in the original video there was no excuse for what Ver did by behaving in a rude manner but that interviewer did provoke Ver.

The thing is that it's completely personal with him, and has been for years. Regardless of specific grievances with the Bitcoin devs apparently being 'fees, transaction times and block size' even if things were 100% perfect he'd still be against them at this point. Even now things are pretty great right now and the scaling is going well. But Roger is more interested in his own personal power, ego, and wealth. After watching him devolve into what he's become over the last few years it would take a complete 180 and him admitting he's been completely full of it for me to even consider giving him some credit.

This is hardly worry of any praise because he is only apologizing to get his credibility back. Also where is the apology for trying to make people think Bitcoin Cash is Bitcoin? Yeah thats what I thought, and I'll wait for the real video that means something. This guy is deceptive, and I don't think he will ever stop being that. For me, this apology means nothing and is a PR move.

True bitcoin does not need Roger Ver but if he backs down from what many seem to be his petty behaviour do you think he should be welcomed back with open arms? Everybody deserves a second chance right?

He's literally been attacking Bitcoin for years now. In the future economics students will probably open their textbook to see a picture of his face where they define 'bad actor'. If he gets a second chance then there's zero incentive to be a good actor. One of the biggest issues with the Bitcoin economy is lack of a strong push back against bad actors. People seem to be free to abuse their positions without economic consequence. And that's not a good situation.

Though its an old video and we had many discussions on this in the past, I dont think he apologized, instead he just backed BitcoinCash more. The lobby between the rivals is fierce and I have seen lots of people jumping with no good intention from Bitcoin to BitcoinCash.

No, he owns bitcoin.com and still uses it for his propaganda. He can make a video to apology but if he is still doing his craps on his website then his video is useless. He needs to make more than a video to be accepted again from  the BTC community.
To be honest, knowing how this guy is and what he is able to do, I wouldn't be surprised if the video is for a "guet-apens"

I guess you are right, he has (partially) apologised after all. Hopefully one day Ver will realise his ego is getting in the way of him doing the right thing with Bitcoin.

seems the OP jolly good had recently been pushing a propaganda mission script that is 7 months out dated.
.. the power of reddit screams seems huge to make people like jolly good push so hard a subject thats 7 months old known as the rage quit propaganda

funnily then jolly good himself has now backtracked after realising that the ragequit drama was over back then in november. and jolly only realised this today after no longer reading the reddit scripts. and instead realised it was old.

...
anyways, the agenda of these propaganda is that ver is actually part of the same group as blockstream/bloq/coindesk/theymos/core centralists
whereby funding can be clearly seen coming from DCG.co


what i am about to say is about
what does your own mindset truly want bitcoin to be
what does your own mindset truly think it currently is

this is not about cash vs core.

those that say they are "bitcoin" supporters. what do you define as bitcoin.
yes the blockchain data is distributed. and yes private control of funds using private keys is distributed.

but the RULES/PROTOCOL of the network. where does your mindset sit.

if you were a true bitcoin decentralist. then great you wont mind anyone attacking certain devs/promoters of any group because no one should own the brand

for instance i personally have nothing against people attacking ver/bloq for that old drama.
but then theymos/core has done the same thing,  they too deserve the same attacks too

if you are a core control fan, thinking core are the best team to decide and maintain the code direction of the network. then your just as hypocritical as ver.
for wanting a team to control and own a protocol and brand

...
before replying. its best you seek deep inside yourselves. where do you truly stand
so to know for yourself if you care more about a decentralsied network as it was mainly in 2009-2013. or if you are a bitcoin core supporter. ask yourself these questions and evaluate your own mindset

1. do you believe core are the best team to moderate, maintain and decide on the future features
2a. if core devs decided tonight to rage quit/stop coding. and tomorrow there was a network bug based on core code. do you have a backup plan
2b. or just hope/trust core wont quit.
3. would you be happier if core never again be part of orchestrating with their partners a mandatory bilateral split, to bypass consensus
4. would you be happier if core did continue to do mandatory splits to bypass consensus for their features to be added to their chain
5. do you care about the control of the code. or just want a team to maintain it centrally to give it trust and ultimately push the price

guage your own answers to reveal to yourself if you are a decentralised network fan. or a core centralist fan.

Awwww here comes franky1 with his ever so long posts promoting Bitcoin Cash and Ver.... I along with many others just scroll past most of what he writes  ;D

Keeping that aside this thread has been started to ask about whether Ver should be welcomed back in to the community IF he stops his perceived war on Bitcoin.

again this is not about cash vs core.

i have never defended ver. i have detested core.
learn the difference.(its about centralisation vs decentralisation)

i know you cant elequantly admit your games. or admit the propaganda agenda. but if all you can do is think if someone detests core they must be pidgeon holed into another team. is your failure of understanding decentralisation. by you thinking its only a 2 team game

..
define bitcoin in YOUR own mindset. (not using the scripted definition of 2009-2013) define it as you see it now. that way we can see are you really a bitcoin decentralist or a core centralist

try not to be a reddit script reader. as today it seems you have learned the hard way you have been pushing a script thats 7 months out of date
and ask yourself what you truly are defending. because you seem like a core centralist defender not a bitcoin decentralist.

dont turn my questions into a cash vs core. to avoid the subject
which are you
bitcoin decentralist (hoping the core team backdown a little and let others use consensus on the network)
core centralist (hoping core partners continue mandatory forced changes/social dramas)

reasons i ask.
who has the power to push out-let in anyone?
which can only be answered by knowing what people think that "bitcoin" is

franky1 this thread is not about the virtues of Bitcoin or Bitcoin Cash, this thread is about Ver apologising for his outburst and whether he should one day be welcomed back in to this community of ours

First of all the video is already like a half year old, so congrats on finding an old fossil out there. Besides that, he is pretty much the face of bcash and the fact that he apologise doesn't mean much because the mistake was already made and when you are so deep in promoting something and mess up like that there has to be consequences. Just shows that all bcash shillers are a joke

The grouse and hostility against Roger Ver is not really about the debate as that was a smoke but the fire itself was because he changed sides, his loyalty shifted, and maybe he said too much for him to think there is need to apologise, which does not change peoples opinion about him as a sell out who is ruled by his quest for selfish wealth and more reason why I think his apology is not needed rather he should do the needful and hands off any relationship with bitcoin (including the attacks) while he continues to promote rigorously and religiously his new found love.

I broadly agree with you but my point was that IF he stops making problems and accepts he was wrong then should Ver be welcomed back to the community and afforded some respect? Or do you think the damage is done and in the unlikely event he apologises it would be too little too late?

it's an old and funny video! be is not only NOT apologizing in reality but also he is attacking others! and he is literary doing everything that he is saying is wrong.
for example the first thing is that he says he called bitcoin-cash bcash and he got mad. he is doing the exact same thing. he is calling bitcoin bitcoin-core and calls bitcoin-cash as bitcoin!
the other thing about "shilling" he says they lied about him paying and he can get a lawyer and sue his ass, but then continues by saying someone is paying people to shill for bitcoin!!! he should sue his own ass first for telling t his lie.

he also confessed by mistake that BCH is his "product" https://youtu.be/o8uNkcvtRtA?t=86 :D

So where does that leave Ver and the community IF he decides to come clean and apologise? Would he we welcomed back with either open arms or with a bit of scepticism?

It would be insane for the community to welcome back such a person with open arms. He's literally one of the top and most infamous enemies in Bitcoin history. And it constantly gets shoved in our face as he controls the .com site which is confusing and misleading people into thinking that BCH is actually BTC. It's ridiculous.

Many agree with you. Everything points to Ver throwing a tantrum and him using the very same wealth that Bitcoin provided to try to attack Bitcoin and create Bitcoin Cash.

Even with the complete 180 you refer to, many will not forgive him and not forget but surely IF he has a genuine change of heart and gives to bitcoin.com domain to the community then it would be a great step to make amends. I wonder if anybody has reached out to Ver to try get him to understand the extent of damage the confusion bitcoin.com domain is creating.

Regardless of specific grievances with the Bitcoin devs apparently being 'fees, transaction times and block size' even if things were 100% perfect he'd still be against them at this point. Even now things are pretty great right now and the scaling is going well. But Roger is more interested in his own personal power, ego, and wealth

people like Roger Ver only care about their pockets and how they can fill it with more money. there is no being against or for anything here. he is against everything but his own interest. if bitcoin cash stops giving him profit then he will dump that just as fast and moves on to something that he can milk more and make more money from. even this "apology video" is so fucked up, it is only an apology in title.

Like many people you are also waiting for the "real" apology. Many people agree with you that Ver is deceptive and have dismissed his apology because it did not seem genuine at all.

I don't see this as an apology video. Though he has tried a lot for Bitcoin in the past and now he has become the enemy of it and I do not think there is any cogent reason for him to become Bitcoin enemy  or perhaps he has an hidden agenda. The bitcoin community will grow strong without him. Let him face BCH and leave Bitcoin . we don't need any apology from him.

Many people share your views and not interested in anything Ver has to do or say because they feel Ver is not genuine and has bitten the hand (Bitcoin) that made him rich.

I actually can't really imagine how anyone could seriously justify having anything to do with him after all that's happened in the past few years. Like he actively tries to harm Bitcoin. It's crazy, because he still holds a ton of BTC I believe.

Yes that hypocrisy of Ver holding thousands of Bitcoin yet actively trying to push Bitcoin Cash as the 'real' Bitcoin even though it is a fork is very bad.

I hope Roger one day realises the damage he has caused and simply puts things right again.

Personally, I don't care if BCH is considered a real bitcoin or not. It seems to me that BCH is an excellent investment tool for multiplying your capital. And Roger Ver is doing everything for growing  BCH. This will be especially noticeable when the market trend will change to a growing one.

Before you attack bitcoin, you need to understand this issue, understand all aspects, and then make public speeches.Whether to apologize or not is a personal matter, but this performance does not look serious.

Yes many people feel the same, his performance does not look serious or genuine.

I don't see how BCH seems like a good investment at all, let alone multiplying your capital. The one thing it had was a short window where the fees were much less expensive than Bitcoin. But that was a result of various issues that are no longer causing the same situation. So what is it now other than a tool used by Ver and co. to more or less scam newbies and dump on them?

Well BCH did jump from $200 in August 2017 to over $1000 where it is today so as a purely investment option the was scope and might well be scope for growth but because of the hand behind Bitcoin Cash and the perceived plan it is being used to try to attack Bitcoin many people are not interested in it.

I'm totally tired of this politics behind the Bitcoin vs Bitcoin Cash. And I really don't care because I know that Bitcoin will really come on top. Ver already made his decision so shift side and attack Bitcoin so I doubt that people will find his apology sincere.

But on the other hand, if we had like Ver in our side to promote Bitcoin, I think if will be good for us, just like Vitalik is to Ethereum. I think time will tell and be the judge on how Ver should be treated around the crypto sphere. Its going to be a lot of pros and cons and arguments about him, but I don't give a f**.

Bitcoin will survive and progress with or without Ver. What shocks many people is that he seems to have bitten the hand that fed him, why he seems to hate Bitcoin so much yet hold thousands of Bitcoins is beyond anyone. Why he seems to push Bitcoin Cash as the 'real' Bitcoin when it is nothing more than a fork is also problematic so many people have already made up their minds on Ver.

If someone is just looking to make money on a trade then there's probably been tons more profitable pump-and-dump alts that people have made/would have made more money on than BCH. At least with some of those alts/ICOs or whatever they are a few of them are actually genuine(I assume anyway, I know it's mostly trash).

I agree with what you wrote but right now there are no signs of Bitcoin Cash being a "pump and dump" game, it seems to be there for the long haul.

He is not happy with the over all development and both parties are accusing each other, rather than having a healthy debate it is just an unhealthy situation but the video you posted is an old one and the content is that the interviewer was rather abusive and he should have walked away rather than continuing with the interview and Ver being an emotional guy lost his cool and the particular video is about his apology on how things went and nothing else. :D

Specifically which aspects of the overall development is Ver not happy with?

Of the two parties you refer to (I presume Bitcoin devs and Ver Bitcoin Cash) what are they accusing each other of?

Bcash = anti Bitcoin, this is the goal of this altcoin.

And Bcash give the image of his founder ... thank's to him for what he does before for bitcoin, but he don't deserve now mentionning him ever, bitcoin has no accountable to him same as the community.

Many people agree with you, they do not like Roger Ver