Bitcoin Forum

WOW!!! What is it with the "SHA-256 payout (BTC) less than maintenance (BTC)" that has been like that for the last couple of weeks!!

Can anyone shed some light on it and whether there is any hope for the contract not terminating after 21 days and potentially losing all of the seed.

Is there any hope in sight. THOUGHTS!! BTC

Yep. There's hope left.

But bitcoin has to spike, or difficulty has to crash.  ;)
Don't think either of those things will happen.

So if I were you, I'd be looking to get a more stable replacement, like POS coins.
Hashflare is enjoying being able to confiscate your miners.
They likely pay a fraction of the electric fee they charge us.
Which means that they can continue to mine at a profit. --For themselves, this time.

That's how I see it.
Maybe I'm wrong, and they'll figure something out.
But ask the guys who shelled out for a "lifetime contract" what they think.

(Disclaimer: I'm losing too. Have 33 TH/s.)

Hey Shaw

Many thanks for your reply. Unfortunately I am a first time investor in the crypto space and all my research pointed towards the Hashflare platform.

As I don't have much knowledge in this area and wanted to start out small with 2 T/H contract I thought that this would allow me to get a feel for how the whole thing works.
I simply do not have the amount of time it would require to be watching the markets and doing live trades on alt-coins and prefer the passive income generated from these platforms with minimal effort and experience.

I will watch with interest as to whether there is much movement but atm it would appear that the HF MEF fees outway the profitability I guess due to the low btc USD rate.

I also initially got involved in USI-Tech and you may have heard that they also went south very quickly and the whole descended into a loss for many investors.... :(

Would appreciate any feedback or direction in regards to alternates though. Always willing to listen.

Glad to hear you only lost out on 2 TH/s.

I wouldn't advise trading at all. POS, means proof of stake.
It is a different kind of coin algorithm.

Basically, my advice was to buy a POS altcoin once, (I like Bitbean, Clams, and Pivx).
Send those coins to a staking pool. (Definite choice would be btcpop.co (http://btcpop.co) 2% fees, only, and one of the few platforms I would trust. )
And then those coins will passively generate new coins over time. (POS is essentially inflationary.)

It isn't just a magic gold mine though. You can still lose money, of course.
But I've found it to be a lot more stable, and if you are content holding, you'll probably eventually come out ahead.

Sorry about the USI-Tech bit. We all learn about bitcoin ponzi schemes one way or another... And most of us have to learn the hard way once.
Any other questions, feel free to ask. I'm just a little minnow in here, but I've done my share of dealings. :)

Well!! BTC's value is droppping fast and while there have been no payouts that are greater than the current MEF it will mean that after 21 long and arduous days the Minning Contract will be defunct and withdrawn by HashFlare. As per the Terms below.

5.5.   The Mining process continues until said mining is profitable. This means the Mining process will stop if the Maintenance and Electricity Fees will become larger than the Payout. If mining remains unprofitable for 21 consecutive days the Service is permanently terminated (Hashrate type specific). During the consecutive 21 day period, Payouts and Fees will also be temporarily stopped. If during the suspension period, the Contract-related mining factors (such as the exchange rate and mining difficulty) that are outside of HashFlare’s control will change favorably, making mining profitable again, the Service will be unsuspended and contracts reactivated.

GOODBYE initial investment HELLO HashFlare profit.... so sad..

#whatcanyado #ripped #countingthedays #21days

payouts are simply impossible with such btc rate :-[ :-[ :-[

It’s sad that we allow this type of manipulation. Nothing should have this type of control over your lives.

Huh? I thought everything was solved, because strangely this was the last twitter made by them:


When I say it's strange they do this post on twitter and do not post anything else on twitter is because they always liked to do many posts on twitter and now for some reason they do not post on twitter, this is strange, very strange

This is why no one should invest in cloudmining. It is worse than a Ponzi. Here's the number one question you should have asked- If it is so profitable why aren't they just mining themselves??

You are essentially buying the cloudmining company their hardware. You pay them upfront in Crypto full well knowing DIFF increases(usually) roughly every 2 weeks, hoping that by the end of the contract you will have earned enough BTC to cover your initial investment, your maintenance fees, any withdrawals fees, and have a profit. This normally does not happen, so the only way you make money is when the price of BTC has increased; and you could have earned that by Holding or even buying more based on what your maintenance fees would have been.

Then they have the ability to kill a contract after a certain period of time without refunding the purchase of the contract.


The only platform for that I would remotely suggest is Nicehash, because you can use it to jump in at a moments notice, or for a short time as it suits your needs.

Yes is solved but it back to 0 profit again when bitcoin drop too much. My hashflare account already have 0 profit for about 2 or 3 weeks.
So, it still not fully solved yet.

We wont really called this thing to be solved because it would still remain unprofitable and we keep saying those things all over again and again.
I'm with those comments above about twitter they do usually make announcements but now it seems they aren't giving any word about this matter which is really very strange.
Conclusion= Any cloud mining investments wont really be worth at all.

All cloud mining services have recently collapsed. I think that the only solution to this problem is related with green crypto mining. It will be able to solve the diminishing returns issue related to more costs and less rewards.

It's almost guaranteed. And judging from the date that this was posted, I reckon that your contract was probably already terminated by now unfortunately. Do correct me if I'm wrong, in the slight chance that it wasn't.


There is really no solution to this.

Cloud mining itself is just purely set up for the benefit of the company running it. There is virtually no prospect for the users to make money in the long run unless you run a large affiliate network of some sort. They control everything regarding your investment once you deposit with them. As we've seen with Hashflare, they have done shady stuff such as reducing contract lengths from lifetime to 1 year and increase minimum withdrawal exponentially. All the while, you don't know if they're actually mining. Nor do they need to provide any proof of profits each day.

They can literally arbitrarily determine your payments each day, and terminate your contract if they want to. Cloud mining is essentially touted as a passive income scheme. It's the exact opposite of that.

They do actually have those miners and they do really actually do mining but the fact that once we do put our money then we do consider ourselves to be like prisoners which theres nothing we can do but to
agree on all terms or changes that they would made.On making money then theres no doubt and on all of the miners they do have even how the difficulty do rise up they do still end up to be profitable but only to the company itself and they would cut all the profits which will really be applied to investors.

Yep, some ops do claim to own miners and some actually do, while others don't. By investing in a cloudmining contract, you're effectively offsetting the risk taken by the mining provider to you, from them buying miners and mining with them. Only the service provider actually gains from this in the end, and if you do manage to get your money out of one of these schemes, you're getting the short end of the stick.

I think now is not the best time for any mining of bitcoin, maybe sometime later the situation will stabilize, but what will happen to our contracts by that time only heaven knows

The only "good" time for cloud mining is when the price goes absolutely nuts like what happened last year, but that's a very short term event and only happens once every two or three years.

The situation won't ever stabilize with how the mass has jumped on the mining bandwagon. People here need to realize that the situation will only get worse and we have plenty enough historical data to back that up.

It seems that regardless of how many times we explain people that buying coins directly is the best way to move forward, they still don't get it or just don't care. It feels like I'm wasting time trying to help people realize that.

I feel you. By the time you made one person aware of the fact that cloud mining is a shithole, a dozen of newbies have blindly entered the cloud mining space.

In the end I still believe that the best way for people to learn that cloud mining (or basically any other investment scheme) is rubbish, is to have them lose money. If you are being rewarded for doing stupid things you will never learn. In order to understand that what you did was wrong, you have to get burned, and this for most people should be a sufficient wake-up call.

The only thing with cloud mining is that the process of losing money is very slow with how services can pay users for months without any problems, so in most cases it will take a month or six for people to at least acknowledge their loss.

after the drop in price and increase in mining difficulty it became unprofitable, after market recovers, chances are we gonna mine well again)

Theres also a sudden huge increase in hashrate again and there are some reports that total mining power is touching 60 Ehash/s. Smaller miners are being killed lol.

Having that said, the solution to the problem is to buy BTC, not mining contracts. But if theres a small miner who wants to explore other possibilities then give Proof of Capacity a try.

Hi I heard Genesis also has problems, is it true?

there are a lot of people who are complaining, it seems like this is a problem that already takes a long time

https://twitter.com/GenesisMining/status/1037677051245993984

https://i.imgur.com/PUTVpOh.png

https://i.imgur.com/uZyEJOf.png


days after your post, they posted this:

HashFlare mining suspension: reasons, aftermath and answers to questions (https://blog.hashflare.io/hashflare-mining-suspension-reasons-aftermath-and-answers-to-questions-8add5d8210f4)

the situation only worsened and they said this:

https://i.imgur.com/h2PDqgk.png

Slow death
That problem, I mean mining contracts on genesis, has started some years ago, it's not something new.

I-Love-BTCD
Just google: Bitcointalk genesis mining review or this thread is probably enough too: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1185909.0
Get rid of them anyway, their nice words aren't so nicer in reality.

Yeah, all cloud mining services have difficulties now since btc rate is impossibly low for profitable mining.

yup, like the whole market, I know that genesis changed contracts with no agreement w/ their customers. Liked Hashflare article on medium, it has all the answers

We have Hashflare answers but we can't raise profitability( Patience is our answer :(

Genesis stopped payouts already, cloud mining is tanking and we can't change it. Only btc all mighty can :(

It can be profitable only with really high prices, we've seen it last year.  All other time it wasn't very profitable, let's be honest, and now it's a complete mess.

Not exactly, Genesis customers have a problem, Genesis is doing fine.

I see that recently they have come up with another genius (for Genesis) scheme whereby customers can avoid their contracts being cancelled (and their investment vanishing) by paying upfront maintenance fees  ::)


Hmmm.
So, they charge $0.14 per Th/s maintenance fee.
@ 0.1J/gigahash (S9) and $0.06 electricity (Iceland), that leaves around $0.08 per day "costs" per Th/s outside of actually powering the miner, or around $1.20 a day for an S9.
So what they are saying is that one of their big mining barns, with e.g. 10,000 S9's in it, costs them $12,000 to run per day after allowing for electricity...
That's nearly 4.5 million dollars in "fixed costs" per year to operate.
And they "don't make any profit" out of that.
I wonder how those millions of dollars are allocated?
One thing's for sure, they'll never say...

Agree, that's the crypto basic. Like the whole crypto market is not really profitable untill BTC is UP to about $11k for a long period of time

Even if the difficulty doesn't catch up hard enough to eat through your profitability, the cloud miners could still choose to not pay out anything.

In the end, we're dealing with a scheme here, which means that if there isn't enough money flowing into their platform, they won't be paying, it's that simple. Their word to become profitable when the price reaches x level is worthless. It's just another attempt to trap in noobs not knowing how things work here.

Even the services that are actually mining don't pay their users with their mining rewards. People get paid with funds coming from previous investors, that's how schemes work. In other words, legit cloud miners and outright scam cloud miners are the same.

You are talking about Ponzi scheme here, but how can you prove it? I mean why do you think that all services work this way?

It's actually very simple.

The largest cloud miner that's actually mining is Bitmain's HashNest. Everyone can see what they generate because their mining addresses are public. Based on the coins they actually mint, there is zero indication of distribution amongst the tens of thousands of individual cloud contract holders. In other words, users are getting paid with money coming from a different source, namely, previous investors, which means that it is a scheme.

The sea full of other cloud miners don't have the balls to release their mining addresses, because they very likely aren't mining at all, or only on a very small scale.

Everything above is very easy to fact check by people having active cloud mining contracts; withdraw your coins and you'll be able to see that it doesn't come from mining addresses.

Going green looks like a proper next step for modern technologies; cheap and profitable mining plus no harm for environment...sounds amazing)

So many details :o 10/11 k seems like heaven in comparison with current rate no matter what ;D

Green energy is our only future If we speak about any industry) Sustainability matters.

Absolutely) and reduce costs as well; I think almost all services use it already anyway) HF as well as far as I know.

If all the energy is sourced in a clean way, tokens can benefit from the proof of work model. Many experts agree that proof of work is more decentralized and secure consensus mechanism, calling upon the roots of what cryptocurrency was meant to be (as defined by Satoshi Nakomoto).

Many offered positive forecasts of the bitcoin exchange rate for 2018, assuring the future increase in the price of BTC. But I think 2019 should be the year!

yes, I saw a lot of positive videos on youtube as well as some positive reviews from economists

I do too, I mean BTC is not $3k, it grows but slow. That's a good thing

We'll see, ok, as for now trend is positive, but as the same time bitcoin is smth you can't control

Well, who knows. Now BTC stopped at one level so for some people that's a positive sign

I think that's positive tho, as bitcoin grew a little bit, now it's stable at least it's not going down

Totally, better than rollercoasters we've seen before) I am waiting for the moment when the price slowly starts to go up.

Agree, that was so depressing to see BTC goes up and down every time

well, yes we need to have BTC up as well. Risk pays off

To be honest I don't know a lot of btc haters, people are normally excited or neutral according to what I've seen. But obviously they should exist so yeah...they will be surprised ;D

Those haters will become lovers very easily. Same goes to Hashflare, one BTC is back, everyone is happy

True, telling hashflare to make BTC higher has no point as well as my advice is to read ToS before you invest

Yeap, they can't reverse this situation unfortunately. We all should wait for btc to increase or forget about it at all.

Nooo, I don't want to forget about it ;D ;D I still believe in btc and cloud mining.