Bitcoin Forum

I'm offering a 1000 BTC bounty for getting a major business to accept Bitcoins as payment. Conditions:

• The business should have at least tens of thousands of customers and a revenue of at least 50 -100 million USD.
• The business must accept Bitcoins as payment for the most of their services.
• The business must provide a reasonably convenient way to pay with Bitcoins. If it's an internet business, they should process the Bitcoin payments automatically.
• The bounty recipient(s) must prove that they convinced the business to start accepting Bitcoins. Contact Sirius by a PM or IRC when the business has shown interest in accepting Bitcoins.
• The bounty will be paid when the business has accepted Bitcoins as payment for 3 months. If they accept Bitcoins for less than 3 months but at least 3 weeks, the bounty will be 200 BTC.
• The bounty expires on 31.12.2011. The business must make the decision to try out Bitcoins before that.
• These terms are subject to change.

Ask me if you're unsure if your business qualifies. Feel free to contribute to the bounty amount.

Suggestion: Try to get a poker site to accept BTC :)

From Linode's Lee Matos:


I presume this type of hesitation to accept bitcoins until bitcoins are 'widely used across the public sector' is prevalent excuse across many businesses, and without any of them taking initiation and instead preserving hesitation, then there will never be an established 'wide use across the public sector.'

I don't expect that the government will ever accept bitcoins.

I'll bet that there will eventually be some gang strong enough to claim local supremacy but not strong enough to mandate a money and will just go with the flow and use the natural money.

Thinkgeek.com is the obvious choice.

I will contact my local Federal Reserve bank...

*fingers crossed*

I do believe that large companies will need some software that would help them deal with Bitcoins.

I am not saying that it is impossible to create that software, but that the software has not yet been developed because we are not at that level yet.

Could those developing software please post links to this site so we can match them with our potential businesses?  I know that there are some POS systems out there and more under developement.

I am not thinking that the POS part is as big of a deal as the accounting portion.

You have a day's worth of customers paying in Bitcoins going into a wallet and you have to trust an employee somewhere not to access that wallet and copy it onto his home computer. That end of things needs some work.

Right now it is ideal for a small business with a single owner.

You can route all your incoming payments to a offline wallet, only authorized person will have access to it.
Similarly, employees cannot initiate transactions or have access to the business bank account.

Hope someone is able to claim this bounty!

Could be a breakthrough, especially if the major business accepting bitcoins did so by using their own innovative way of doing so. Could drive bitcoin further away out of the amateur stage.

I have an a idea about a VERY BIG business to contact, but the bounty is way too low for the excuse i will be using to convince the business itself. It should be at least ten fold that.

Unfortunately, thinkgeek (Geeknet) only has a revenue in the millions, not 50-100million.

/r/Bitcoin has this up http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/l11df/in_this_thread_reddit_raises_1000_btc_for_charity/ suggesting Reddit be the one to accept the Bitcoin for the 3 months to get the 1000 btc, and then they could donate that to charity or whatever they want.


I however, come with this in mind, and I hope goons are reading this, SomethingAwful should do it ;)

I e-mailed Netflix

 ;D

No reason they would have much difficulty accepting BTC for subscriptions.

I don't understand this offer. In my point of view it doesn't make any sense. You could also say: "I will give 1000 BTC for free, if you are a big company and accept Bitcoins".
It is nearly impossible to "convince" a huge company to accept Bitcoins. And even if I'm successful and get a company to accept Bitcoins, why should the company tell anyone that it was me who had the idea for it? In fact, if they get to know that you will pay 1000 Bitcoins, they will just create a fake account and get the money for themselves. Even if I post in this thread that I've asked company xyz to do it, someone else (or a fake account from the company) could show up and say "I asked them 3 days ago! I was first!".
So what's the point?

It is a page from the playbook of pump&dump-ers. Do anything to move the inventory.

Bitcoin itself is not a stock, but some synthetic security. But the promotional efforts around it are straight from the "caveat emptor" section of the OTC Markets Group (if you allow me a little bit of USA-centrism).

http://www.otcmarkets.com/otc-101/otc-market-tiers

I just love their icon for the "caveat emptor" section of the "pink sheets":http://www.otcmarkets.com/content/doc/ps/tier/logo/small/caveat-emptor.png

also see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=909

I don't mind if the bounty recipient works for the big company. You can freely divide the bounty in any way you want. What I care about is that the big company starts accepting BTC :)


You should contact me when the business has initially shown interest in accepting BTC. You can make any arrangements you want that help you prove that you should get the bounty. I'll use my best judgement to reward the right person.

I doubt that any business with 100 millions USD of revenue would accept bitcoins right now. Do you realize how much a 1% shift in Bitcoin price (which happens everyday) would affect the company? Million dollar companies don't play the roulette with their revenues. Every dollar is accounted for.

I am hoping that a working Bitcoin POS project - like the one I have proposed - helps pave the way for this prototypical big business to accept bitcoin.

Right now, an executive can say "I want to accept bitcoin", but he has no practical way to do it.  His employees don't understand how bitcoins work, there's no way he can be assured they won't be destroyed or stolen, and there's no simple way for his employees to know whether they've accepted a bitcoin payment.  (loading the blockchain on the retail counter isn't typically an option)

POS would change all that.  If some small machine on the countertop could beep and spit out a receipt showing that some certain funds (with an equivalent amount shown as dollars) were received... and the clerk could CYA (cover his ass) by sticking that receipt in the register as though it were equivalent to federal reserve notes... and the boss knew that the bitcoins were safe on the block chain and only he can access them... then he might just bite.  Without that, it's just not practical yet.

I'm not sure if you are joking or never maintained auditable accounts for an enterprise.

Slips of paper in the register are for mom&pops and to protect against petty crime. To be considered serious you need to produce an audit trail on the accounting server in conformance with the GAAP. Everything else will be dismissed as too prone to the white-collar crime.

Before a milion $ company can use bitcoin, as explained some posts ago by nmat, they must be widely used by smaller ones to avoid big prices fluctuaction. In this way the POS idea of Casascius can works very well.
When hundreds of small shops will use bitcoins the price will mantain more stable and so bigger shops/firms could enter the game.
Anyway a digital POS can be easily interfaced to an external software to make audit trail at near 0 cost.
But, as explained, IMHO the path to follow is

 small shops/private -> medium shops/small companies -> big shops/medium companies -> everyone

That's interesting to point that out.  It gives small/local businesses opportunity to establish success (in affiliation with bitcoin cryptocurrency) before large corporations/monopolies.

Rather than wasting your time trying to "convince" large corporations to accept something, it would be better to spend your time (and bounty) on more realistic targets and get sites or organisations to accept btc regardless of their size. Particularly sites or organisations accepting donations are a good candidate for this. Ive contacted Democracy Now and The Real News network. I have never heard back from DN, but TRNN has looked in to it, and recently told me they are likely to implement it. Do they make $100 million? No, probably not 1/10th of that,  but they do reach 10s of 1000s of viewers, many of whom might be sympathetic to an alternative currency.  Rome wasnt built in one day, but if organisations like TRNN start accepting BTC and spreading the word, thats a mighty big step in the right direction IMHO. Spamming Bestbuy or Wallmart will do nothing.

This is just wishfull thinking. The clasic counter-example is the failed "web currency" beenz, which was used almost exclusively by huge companies. Stability is one thing. The other is fraud-resistance. The big businesses actually have money and skill to audit the source code.

You can scam a small businessman into believing that the bitcoin doesn't allow chargeback. Big businessman will hire somebody to read the code and will ask pointed questions like: what is this code doing erasing transactions and removing money from my wallet?

Big businessman also knows that a self-deluded enthusiast is completely indistinguishable from a persuasive and skilled scammer.

Neither.  I have also never performed heart surgery.  I'm a software engineer, not an accountant, and not a heart surgeon.


Slips of paper are an example of a control.  Organizations of all sizes use them.  When I make a deposit into my bank, they want a deposit slip.  If I eat at Olive Garden, the slip I sign is their evidence supporting the tip charge against my credit card.  Neither of these organizations are what most people would call mom-n-pop.  I'm not an accountant, but I employ accountants, and at no time has any of them told me that GAAP mandates the abandonment of paper records.  Which would be pretty silly to begin with.

A good Bitcoin POS system would produce a paper record which could be used where appropriate (or disabled if not needed), and would also offer detailed records online, on the back-end website supporting the service.

Obviously: no one can tell when, if, and how many would adopt bitcoin in future. But IMO the path should pass from little-mid companies.


beenz was totally different from bitcoin: centralized and more similar to fidelity point in his structure than to a true monetary system.


I don't get the point  ???
Bitcoin is secure enough for transactions. Online transactions and big money movements can be approved with a sufficent number of confirmation to make them absolutely non-fraudable. The code is open sourced so is readable by everyone.
Why do you think that there is a fraud risk?


Again don't get the point  ???

The fraud risk is because bitcoind(.exe) doesn't produce a proper audit trail.

Various gullible or crafty code monkeys peddle modified bitcoin programs that tamper with the basic functionality of the protocol (most often related to the chain reorganization).

I'm actually very thankfull that Gavin Andresen strenously defends the code and doesn't accept the patches that would interfere with the chain reorg logic. It allows any professional to quickly dismiss idiots and crooks: just ask how their software handles chain reorganization and how they tested it.

It does really matter whether the particular bitcoin-related software was designed by an idiot or a crook. The observable end result will be the same: the smart people wont buy it.

sirius, would a non-profit qualify? Kiva.org seems interested (http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/l0o54/bounty_1000_btc_for_getting_a_major_business_to/c2owrkn).

Yeah, this is currently a problem in the USA. Anyone can call themselves a "software engineer". Even to legally cut hair one has to obtain a proper "cosmetologist license" and show proficiency in disinfecting and delousing his tools of trade.

You should have taken at least basic accounting class before trying to sling the accounting software. Any self respecting professional will ask you questions about how you tested it. I'm thinking that you will have answers of the type: "positive energy", "only love" & "chain reorganizations will never happen, right guys?" This is very sad but common situation in the bitcoin millieu: a programmer wants to design financial software but is proud of not knowing how to do proper accounting.

I think the liability laws in the USA are generally a problem. But in your particular case they will be just what required to teach you how to design and test software for accounting.

Take a few accounting classes before you write the software. It will be cheaper for you overall.

Oh hell, give me a break. No need to be such a jerk. If I produce something that sucks, feel free to criticize it.  But you are pre-criticizing what you think I might produce if I produced it. Are you a licensed fortune teller?  I didn't think so. So you can zip it.

No, I'm not a fortune teller. But I'm a sworn and licensed hunter of scammers. Thus your future product is of great interest to me. The fishy smell is alrady emanating from the blueprints. The whole haz-mat team may be required when the actual product launches.

Or you can just take an accounting class.

It is your choice.

2112 is one smart guy, he seems to know everything about everything!  2112, not everyone is as smart as you are.  Most of us work in teams where each person is an expert at one thing.  Casascius admits he does not know everything about everything like you do - that is why he is forming a team to work on the project.  You have made one point:  a real POS system will need to be better than what we have now.  We all know this, so basically you have contributed exactly zero so far.

This is an open source project, not a personal product.  You are more than welcome to contribute your expertise to the "blueprints" at the Wiki, or fork yourself a copy of the source code at github.  It's pretty hard to scam somebody by releasing work as open source.

It's important for people to understand that exchange rate risk has been virtually eliminated by at least one company, Bit-pay.com.  They are an ideal candidate to provide the merchant solution for any sizable business. They enable the business to receive the Bitcoins automatically converted into USD instantly.

Some might say, "well then what's the point of accepting btc at all?" And the answer of course is that this is a gradual process. We need to help companies step by step. Show them that bitcoins aren't scary. After they are used to the Bitcoin world, some will opt to keep a portion of earnings as Bitcoins. But again, this is is a gradual process.

Also, the most likely way someone can claim this bounty, is if someone has a personal/professional connection to a decision maker at a medium sized business. Who do you know? Who do they know? Set up a meeting and discuss. Describe the advantages of Bitcoins from a merchant perspective (no chargebacks, lower fees, acceptable from anyone anywhere - even Ivory Coast and Ukraine).

OP - thanks for setting up this ambitious bounty!

Actually the opposite is true. Open source makes it extremely easy to scam the unsuspecting by making subtle changes.

MKS Software NuTCRACKER is an example response to the popularity of the scams rooted in subtle modifications of the OSS. They pretty much sell their premim versions of telnet, ftp, etc. but unlike their competitors test that thoroughly.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you that forking things will cure all the problems. Finance is probably the third (after aerospace and healthcare) in terms of strict testing and liability requirements.

You are doing a lot of excellent design. But somehow you convinced yourself that willfull disregard for principles of accounting is a virtue.

OK, this thread because of my involvement had devolved into something bad. I apologize.

I want to repeat my quote from Gavin Andresen's speech:

we don't much care if you don't approve of the software we write

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koIq58UoNfE

and about 1:25 into the clip.

Please ponder about this a little bit. All I was trying to say is the attitude like that is preventing the smart businesses from getting involved in bitcoin.

Agreed, and that needs to change.  So, what we need is real software that meets all the requirements (audit, feature, safety, etc.) of the customers.  Real software that correctly addresses the block reorg issues, etc. that you brought up, whether open source or not.  We will need someone like you (2112), who obviously seems to know what sort of testing and validation is required, to help out in that area.  I have a lead for a large customer (buddy is one of the VPs) that I am working on.  I will keep everyone posted on the questions they ask me.  Even if they don't sign on it will be very interesting to go through the process and see exactly where all the roadblocks are.

Yes, bit-pay is the only acceptable way of doing it. Proposing Bitcoin to a big company without mentioning bit-pay would never work (also, don't forget that bit-pay is limited to US only).

They don't actually sell anything so they wouldn't qualify for this bounty. However, I'd be happy to offer a separate 500 BTC bounty if they accept BTC deposits and withdrawals to/from USD accounts.

That just opens up another issue.  The company now has to trust bitpay.  Nothing wrong w/ bitpay but concincing a fortune 500 company to trust millions of dollars in transactions with a tiny upstart is a hard sell.

The reality is bitcoin simply isn't ready for enterprise grade integration.  It will happen but it won't happen overnight.  Even if a company trusted bitpay how do they get paid.  Bitpay uses Mt Gox behind the scenese and Mt Gox has daily withdrawal limits.  Limits that would utterly kill a  major company cashflow. 

I am sure it will happen eventually.  Enterprise grade tools for protecting wallet files, providing realtime arbitrage w/ multiple exchanges and automating  millions of dollars in fund transfers will eventually exist they simply don't exist today.

It is one thing to ask newegg (to use an example) hey accept bitcoin.  It is another to ask them to "hey accept bitcoin and build a complete enterprise back end capable of mitigating currency risk without introducing counterparty risk, avoid employee fraud/theft, and manage cashflow).  Essentially it is a non-trivial task.

I missed that, Kiva would be pretty big, I can't wait to see a Bitcoin Accepted Here button on that site.

I fully agree.  Nobody should try to approach Fortune 500 companies right now.  But, this contest is only for businesses with revenues of $50 million. There are many businesses of this size, typically considered "medium size," and I think a company like Bit-pay could quite easily handle them. They're extremely competent.

The larger issue still remains.

The advantage of bitcoin is that there is no counterparty risk.  For a business that means no risk of customer fraud, chargebacks, etc.

If a very large business uses bitpay then they are trading one form of counterparty risk (chargeback) with another (bitpay gets hacked, robbed, goes bankrupt, owers run away with the coins).

Why would a business accept that risk?  For what benefit?

What kind of accountability would Bit Pay have in worst case scenarios?   I honestly don't know if they state this or not.

A Fortune 500 can easily integrate Bitcoin themselves and doesn't need a third party payment processor.

I believe Bitpay typically has only 1 day's worth of sales in their system. So such risk is very limited. They're not going to be holding two fiscal quarters of revenue =)

They still have the hurdle of having a competent developer put this sort of thing together of course, just like anybody else.  If they are given tools that they don't have to build themselves, they're that much closer to their goal.

https://i.imgur.com/ShxSW.png

and yes, I changed "you" to "your" before I sent it.

i have just asked kickstarter.com to use bitcoin as a donation method. i think that its the right way to use bitcoin, because bitcoin can be used to sent small amounts.

very good, that subject line might actually work.

Just want to know if this bounty is still good since it says that it would end New Year's Eve of 2011.  The time was very short as most businesses at that level would take almost a year to make a final decision.  If it is still good I have been talking to my store director at Best Buy as well as on their suggestion DB and they seem interested.  In fact they have asked me to write up a presentation which I just completed and will submit sometime this week to the store director and/or corporate leaders.  Let me know if I will qualify for the bounty because I would like it. :D

Yes you would qualify since Best Buy has revenue of more than $50B. I would personally add another 2000btc if this is accepted nation-wide.

I hope you make a good presentation.

Are we talking about the same "BestBuy" ?

What sort of bounty is still available if I can convince the following company to accept Bitcoins publicly on their website?

Publicly traded on the Nasdaq
Stock price currently over $40
Market cap of over $500,000,000
Anual sales of over $300,000,000
Worldwide customer base.
Would greatly benefit from accepting Bitcoins as a payment method.

I guess the bounty would be a bitcoin exchange rate above $100 and a healthy reinforcement of your bitcoin hero status (you won this in my mind with your billboard).

you should do this regardless of the bounty then :)

I will try no matter what,  but it is going to cost a lot of money to make it happen,  so some extra Bitcoins would help a lot.

If this company comes on board,  it will be a great step,  but I don't think it will send the Bitcoin price over $100.

I will post again once there is an update.

Good!

Sorry, the bounty is closed already. Hopefully someone else would be willing to donate for the cause.

Bounty been paid or found yet?

Ive got a possible company looking at bitcoin integration, excess of 150m per year.

Looks like it's too late QK

The thread title needs to change then.

Agreed.

satoshi here

Yes this is satoshi ;D ;D ;D

he is always present but never say one word  since 2014 ;D ;D ;D


Thank you Satoshi ;) ;) ;)

governments with strong currencies wont accept bitcoins

governments with traditionally weak ones like simbabwe will

the main problem of companies is less bitcoins volatility but its dividability, how can you liquidate, bitcoin when you have to pay 1000 employees?

regards