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Italy forces consumers to BitCoin: "20% Tax On All Inbound Money Transfers"

"Money Launderer Until Proven Innocent" - Italy Imposes 20% Tax Withholding On All Inbound Money Transfers
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-16/money-launderer-until-proven-innocent-italy-imposes-20-tax-withholding-all-inbound-m

When I said [last year] that governments, Multinationals, and Banks LOVED Bitcoin [and Cryptos] I was called insane. The global currency swap is due by 2015, expect more pressure and eventually a mass ultimatum.

Furthermore, China and Russia are secretly hoarding BTC and will soon back it completely so the west will form a new SuperUnion and will choose a different Crypto, preferably a twin of BTC.

Only one Bitcoin twin exists right now and that is iXcoin.

Be prepared, it's gonna get very ugly very fast.

Yeah that's great news for bitcoin.
Hopefully will affect the price more than the Cyprus shit.

lol, Cyprus got BTC going, in a big way.

If I'm right and news of china and Russia secretly hoarding leak then we would see $10,000 within a few weeks (from today's $600).

That would be absolute confirmation that BTC will go global in a big way and soon after that we would see BTC have its symbol changed to the global [Zurich] symbol of XBT.

And iXcoin I predict will follow the same path and be relabeled XIC [from IXC].

Obviously my BTC theory is highly probable while the IXC theory is a much, much lower probability, but I am convinced of it so that's why I post this madness.  lol.

Huge red flag.

Capital controls are coming to all Western nations before too long.

This move by Italy is designed to prop up their busted banks which were about to fail spectacularly. Notice that the 20% 'withholding' accumulates at the account of the banks and is only forwarded to Revenue annually.

US banks have also done something similar to force people into cryptos.  They've greatly limited rhe amount a person or even a business can transfer out of the US.  Most companies are dead without the ability to transfer money around the world.

There is no reason for this - no logical reason.  So it's impossible to transfer any decent amount of money out of the US except by use of Bitcoin. 

Interesting - not sure I believe this but surely interesting

So Italy recongises BTC as a legitmate currency? Or at least an asset!

Believe what?  It's news.

Unless you're referring to my difficult to believe theories.

That's nothing new.  You'll get used to me being me.

iXcoin ready to take off.  Check out the new website ready to launch if you need some proof.



http://lukeconnellau.wix.com/ixcoin-v3#!social-hub/c1zri



Good luck!

no.

Italy's gov is desperately in need of money and they're charging every bank wire that comes from a foreign country. be it SEPA or not.
It's up to the receiver to prove that on those money the state hasn't to apply that income tax. by default they assume the opposite.

the new tax it's not specifically related to BTC. it applies to all incoming bank transfers. Unfortunately when you cash out btc from an exchange you've to use a bank wire.

Another risk Italy gov's is going to expose italian citizens: double taxation. As I said before is up to the recipient to prove that those money hasn't to be taxed. If he fails or just forgot to do it it could pay the taxes twice. Once when he received the money and once when he have the annual rendezvous with the tax man.

Max Keiser said at the recording of his radio show, The Truth About Markets on www.resonancefm.com for broadcast on 23/2/2014, that senior US sources had told him that China and the US were hoarding bitcoin.

Wow such measurements are just ridiculous!
This might again be a good thing for BTC in the future.

Ahahaaaaa.  I love it.


Makes perfect sense.  I'm so glad I'm not alone on this one.

So think, if China and Russia are hoarding BTC then what will the US And Europe do?

They have to find Bitcoin's twin, they have to find a diff and proven crypto to combat BTC.

And iXcoin is the only true identical clone (twin) of BTC.

That's a fact.  This is great news!!!!

Thanks for posting that!!!

My family might have fallen into the category of people that would have to justify the wires they sent to Italy, even if it would have probably been easy since it was from family to family (to support my Italian grandmother, who died last year unfortunately).

When you know Italy this is not really surprising, it's not Greece for sure, but tax avoidance is still rampant. An Italian aunt who owns a business and wants to do everything by the book just can't because half the customers don't want records, they're ready to pay more than the price including taxes ! Meaning they've got plenty of undeclared money.

Is this reported somewhere on a "real" news site?  I can not find anything searching the web for "Italy incoming bank wire 20% tax" and related terms.  If this is indeed true, it would be tremendous (but not really surprising) news.

It's true. Biggest financial newspaper in italy:
http://www.ilsole24ore.com/art/notizie/2014-02-13/ritenuta-automatica-bonifici-estero-064329.shtml

aesma, that's mostly useless rhetoric bullishit. I pay every single cent of my taxes in italy (where i have a business that i'm moving away along with my ass because of the high taxation), and the same goes for my family, that has a little grocery.

There is no Italian BTC exchange? That would solve pretty much whole problem.

Thanks!  Looked the newspaper up on Wikipedia, and it looks indeed trustworthy.  The Google translation also is at least good enough to confirm the basic message.  This is really interesting news, then!

My aunt provides a service (dogs and cats kennel) so people have to pay hundreds of euros once in a while, it's easy to understand how doing it undeclared would be simple.

If you have no problems with your clients, good for you !

What I'm describing happens in Tuscany, in the south it must be 10 times worse.

About 15 years ago I was asking an uncle who is wealthy why he didn't drive a Ferrari, and his answer was that it would cause an immediate tax inquiry. Today people driving such cars are literally harassed at the Italian borders (with some reason).

I'm Italian. That title is not true at all! The truth is that before Christmas we made a law that indicate to banks to retain 20% of the money transfers from abroad, even from Eu countries. As far as I know this has not bee applied yet from banks and can be avoided declaring that the money is not coming from interests or capital gains.
Bitcoins were not in the mind of the people who did this law. The main goal was to avoid that capitals can return freely in Italy after having been stored in Swiss or other countries. But I'm quite confident this law will never be applied.

I have to admit that i forgot to read the english title before saying that it's true :) (anyway the zerohedge article is correct)

20% is taken upfront and given back if you prove that it's not in any way taxable. (good luck with that)

Some facts :

...regarding income withholding tax in Europe, and the position of new tax law in Italy, things are as follows :

LOWEST INCOME TAX IN EUROPE :

1. GUERNSEY (UK CHANNEL ISLANDS) - max income tax - 0% (for non-Guernsey residents)
1. MONACO - max income tax - 0%

2. MONTENEGRO - max income tax - 9% (flat tax)

3. ALBANIA - max income tax - 10% (flat tax)
3. BOSNIA & HERZEGOVINA - max income tax - 10% (flat tax)
3. MACEDONIA - max income tax - 10% (flat tax)
3. BULGARIA - max income tax 10% (flat tax)

4. CZECH REPUBLIC - max income tax - 15% (flat tax)
4. PALESTINE - max income tax - 15% (flat tax)
4. GEORGIA - max income tax - 15% (flat tax)
4. LITHUANIA - max income tax - 15% ( flat tax)
4. SERBIA - max income tax - 15% (flat tax)

5. HUNGARY - max income tax - 16% (flat tax)
5. ROMANIA - max income tax - 16% (flat tax)

6. MOLDOVA - max income tax - 17% (brackets, progressive)

7. DANMARK - max income tax - 18,67%

8. SLOVAKIA  - max income tax - 19% (flat tax)

9. ISLE OF MAN - max income ta - 20% (flat tax)
9. JERSEY (UK CHANNEL ISLANDS) - max income tax - 20% (flat tax)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ITALY - max income tax - 20% <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

10. ESTONIA - max income tax - 21% (flat tax)

11. LATVIA - max income tax - 26% (flat tax)

12. NORWAY - max income tax - 28% (30% tax penalty tax, brackets, progressive)

13. AZERBAIDZJAN - max income tax - 30% (brackets, progressive)
13. CYPRUS - max income tax - 30% (brcketds, progressive)

14. FINLAND - max income tax - 31.75% (brackets, progressive)

15. ICELAND - max income tax - 33% (above 7 800 001.00 ISK (Icelandic Kronas)

16. POLAND - max income tax - 32% (brackets, progressive)

17. ANDORRA - max income tax - 35% (The tax on taxation of savings on interest on monetary and fixed return products deposited in financial bodies in Andorra by individuals residing in one of the member states of the European Union. The withholding tax rate on interest was 20%, until June 2011 when it was raised to 35%.Division of taxes : The Principality of Andorra retains 25% of the revenue coming from this retention and transfers 75% of it to the public treasury of the member state of the EU where the end beneficiary resides, while maintaining banking secret when managing this transaction, i.e. the person from whom a part of the interest has been retained will not be identified. Andorra does not disclose the individual names of the EU residents from whom tax is withheld. This tax began to be levied on 1 July 2005.) (flat tax)

18. MALTA - max income tax - 35% (brackets, progressive)
18. TURKEY - max income tax - 35% (brackets, progressive)

19. GIBRALTAR - max income tax 35 or 40% (decision by taxpayer if gross or allowances based tax is chosen)

20. LUXEMBOURG - max income tax - 38.95% (brackets, progressive)

21. ISRAEL - max income tax - 39% (brackets, progressive)

22. CROATIA - max income tax - 40% (brackets, progressive)
22. FRANCE - max income tax - 40% (brackets, progressive)
22. GREECE - max income tax - 40% (brackets, progressive)

23. IRELAND - max income tax - 41%
23. SLOVENIA - max income tax - 41% (brackets, progressive)

24. SWITZERLAND - max income tax - 42.28% (depending on canton, brackets, progressive)

25. SPAIN - max income tax - 43% (brackets, progressive)

26. GERMANY - max income tax - 45%

27. MADEIRA (PORTUGAL) - max income tax - 45,88% (brackets, progressive)
27. PORTUGAL - max income tax - 45,88% (brackets, progressive)

28. AUSTRIA - max income tax - 50%. (brackets, progressive)
28. SAN MARINO - max income tax - 50% (brackets, progressive)
28. BELGIUM - max income tax - 50% (brackets, progressive)
28. UNITED KINGDOM - max income tax - 50% (brackets, progressive)

29. NETHERLANDS - max income tax - 52% (brackets, progressive)

30. SWEDEN - max income tax - 57,77% (brackets, progressive)

it's not a new tax. you're already supposed to pay the tax on such money if they represent an income.

Now Italian Gov. simply suppose by default that every incoming bank transfer is taxable as income. 

They have simply switched the burden of the proof, hence the risk of paying a not due tax.

E.g. think of someone who simply forgot to prove to Italian IRS that those money were related to remittances those 20% simply won't come back.

Sure it's not a new tax, it's worse, it's something quite unusual and frightening, and if applied to small amounts of money, that will hurt common people having family abroad far more than real tax evaders who wouldn't dare to wire big sums anyway.


This isn't up to date, with the crisis these taxes have been modified in many countries (often up, sometimes down).

For France (my country) it's 45% and even 75% over 1 million euros (only for 2 years).

For Italy it's also up to 44-45% (progressive).

We're in violent agreement here. More to the point AFAIU the 20% cut is applied to all incoming bank transfers, no matter the amount involved be it 20 or 20K euro.

That list is not entirely correct. For example Hollande's new French tax reaches 75% (including social security) and Denmark has up to 51.5%, plus some other fees that make them pass Sweden in some cases.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates

This was just a quick approximation for people to see, where actually Italy is regarding taxes. So 20% is not much. If you hate paying young Firenza's mayor, find other ways of money transfer, after all BTC was invented for that purpose, not just for mining...but for actual paying, that is to circumvent and avoid present payment systems and greedy banks.

Thank you all for sharing.

It is starting to be more cost effective to encourage people to accept bitcoin rather than move to fiat. Especially if fiat incurs yet-another-tax-stupid-tax.

These old school currency people are great at devaluing their fiat.

It's China and the US, not China and Russia.
Is that the base of your theory and caused you all-in with IXC? If so, this entire theory of West fighting East on crypto field is, unfounded.

For you info the tax has been removed. in the few cases where it was applied the money will be returned back.

Well it is nothing surprising, most of the countrys would regulate it too sooner or later. From one point of view it might make it easyer for some of country's that want to get into bitcoin related activities in Italy, on other hand we should expect more regulations, that would take away some of biggest bitcoin advantages.

that is not cool..

but there is a quick fix for this

localbitcoins.com

screw you goverment :D

it would be okay if you had to pay taxes on profit but 20% on all transactions?
damn..

that would make buy low,sell high business go out of business :D

His 75% income tax wasn't constitutional so instead it's a new special corporate tax companies have to pay if they give salaries over 1 million euros.

What everyone should do is never cash it out, Bitcoin is money by itself, It's value is backed by it's ability to be traded for other things, Really a Bitcoin exchange is much like a Forex exchange, When you sell BTC for USD or EUR you are just trading one money system for another. We really don't need fiat money anymore, Governments have no control over Bitcoin, The only thing they can regulate are fiat toilet paper transactions.

Fiat toilet paper is only good for paying the government taxes and fees, Paper is the money of slaves.

According to you Arab majority Azerbaidzhan is in Europe, while Ukraine and Russia are non-European nations?

There gonna be a revolution soon. Governments are being way too greedy. 'Tax everything' politics would bite them in the ass. Sooner than they may think.

If you look closely, then you will find that in pro-Feminist countries, the tax is high. For example, in Sweden it is more than 50%. In anti-Feminist countries, the tax is lower. For example, in Russia it is 13%.

There is a valid reason for this, which I don't need to explain.

Good news for the British, however still not public policy in the most of other EU member states, but here is official statement :

...meaning HMRC (UK TAX SERVICE) will formally remove a VAT on bitcoin trading in the UK this week:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/briefs/vat/brief0914.htm

All above mentioned countries, states and territories (some of which are ommited because of insufficient tax information which I haven't got at the time I was writing that text) have some form of EU, EU-related, or other superstate and international integrations related to Europe - membership, meaning that to some extent their own monetary and fiscal policy is not drafted solely by their governments sovereign right, but are also influenced by EU-goverment and Council of Europe and other bodies.

Ukraine and Russia are not part of those integrations except separate NATO alliance forums with each specific country (Ukraine and Russia respectively). Another thing is that Russia is super-continental giant not mainly in Europe, but in Asia too, and if Russia would be included in this brief TAX overview, so I would have to include approx at at least 100 other nations governments...

Positions of current ukrainian government toward their currency, taxes, future fiscal measures and bitcoin issues are also due to known issues - a shaky ground since this might change any day, and russian taxes, for most readers of this thread, which are, I presume, from Italy, would be out of the scope of this topic.

However it was not intended to offend anybody from Ukraine nor Russia (by unintentionally stipulating they are not in Europe, which they are), just that since this was Italian issue, and Italy being a EU member country, the aim was to corelate italian taxes with the rest of Europe, mostly with EU-member territories.

Thank you for your contribution, point noted. Income of BTC-related revenue, however when my taxes list was made, was not intended to look like million-euro business nor it included huge extra high income taxes, but just relate to small transactions which constitute the majority of BTC circulation.