Bitcoin Forum

I'm just asking this question for myself but can't really reply. It is more related to "mining" in fact. But I think it's similar, because without mining and THash, the system would not work...

I would like to rely on the philosophy, but I think that the system is not well balanced. I mean that, who have the bigger, have the more. And the pool seems to be more like a group of selfish people that run for money than a group of people that share the same concept.

What if pools apply an equivalent distribution of bitcoin between each members ? Why not ?

I can't get the difference between having gold (metal) and having TH/s "at home" ? Where is it better than a banking system ? (security is not an argument, banking system has a pretty good security level) (anonymity is not really an argument because banking system can be anonymous) (avoiding taxes, I prefer some people to work with and having nice gardens in my city)

I believe also that the "legacy" currency system is bullshit and built on the interests of some people more than the interest of a civilisation. And I really, really hope there can be an opportunity to have a money that is not built on raw material but on a common will.

It's very naive and conceptual but your response interest me.

Financial freedom. The ability to store and transfer value without asking for help from a middleman or permission from an authority.

OP to begin with you have a lot of incompatible concepts that you are relating and comparing.

You should read up a bit on what bitcoin and bitcoin mining is.

You should also do a $10000 bank transfer and then send $10000 worth of btc to some address.

Tell me in which case are you more satisfied.

P.S - Yes, bank transfers can be anonymous ... if you own the bank and the country it's in.

Digital anarchy!!!

http://peacefreedomprosperity.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/anarchy-empowerment.jpg

Its an opportunity for me to be a part of something special...Innovation!

Decentralized payment system. No more you have to ask middleman or authority if you can transfer wealth and telling what reason you doing the transfer for. Simply more freedoom, payment system of future without the need to trust authority

For me BTC is just a great cryptocurrency.

:]

Realy great!

we are very idiot if bitcoin can't replace credit card and bank (positif) account ... that my view.
in actual situation, the banks only take 10% of the money that i win ... and "sell" 90% with interest.

it's a mafia system.
bitcoin solve this immediatly.

I like voting stats :P

:)

1st place "Next monetary system +12"

This is what indeed bitcoin is! :)

At the moment I'm just using it go gain some money.
I like how it works though and I can really see a future
with it, hopefully the interest will keep rising and one day
it might just be the next monetary system!

This above. Exactly.

I was a follower of Peter Schiff for many years and I was listening to his warnings of where things were headed in 2006-2007.

A couple of weeks before the banking crisis in 2008 I decided that I wanted to withdraw a decent chunk of my bank balance, to keep as cash in a safety deposit box, instead of on the bank account.

I felt that in a banking crisis the most likely scenario would be that the government (and banks) would simply put a limit on withdrawals to avoid a total collapse, (which proved to be true in Cyprus recently).

Anyway, as I requested the withdrawal, (and gave the 5-day notice that my bank requests), they pretty much refused to allow me to withdraw my own money from my own account!

I was infuriated!

They were not only asking questions as to why I would need that sort of money, since it was a "larger than normal" withdrawal, (which I explained with the truth, that I was concerned about a bank run), but they also said:

"We no longer deal with larger cash transactions. Anything over a couple of thousand is very suspicious and we will need to report you to the financial authorities for even asking to do this withdrawal."

In the end I got my money out, (after numerous angry phone calls to two managers, and several days waiting beyond the normal 5 days), but not only did I have to pay a hefty fee of 2% but they made me feel like a criminal for even asking to withdraw my own money!

After that experience, (and a couple of other bad experiences) I have always been interested in alternatives to the banks. Then a few years later I learned about Bitcoin. :)

If you don't yet know how the banking system really works, go and watch this video right now! http://youtu.be/jqvKjsIxT_8

A way to hopefully take back some of the control that the federal reserve has, and hopefully make a little money along the way.

A highly efficient money.

I can send value denominated in bitcoin across the world quickly and free.

A technology.

Bitcoin is a protocol that establishes for the first time a historic record of events that can not be modified, removed or accidentally destroyed.

A medium of exchage to get the most advanced and up to date crypto (=WorldCoin).

you mean digital capitalism. property rights and anarchy are pretty much the opposite. if you don't understand anything, just ask.

For me its new, a new monetary system, new way to look at your wealth. New way to hoard it. And its a new way to get out of this inflationary currency system. So, it a revolution in the market that has just started.

However, I suggest You to update to WorldCoin.

Freedom from banks!

Well said. People who don't like their big piles of money to inflate, love Bitcoins. They love hoarding. It's a new monetary system designed to increase the gap between the rich and poor even more.

Digital Asset

At its root. +1

for me, its a ponzi scheme that makes me rich. its not very ethical, but i can't always think about others. i also want to be greedy now and then.

Please google "why bitcoin is not a ponzi" and educate yourself before posting shit like that.

what is POC?
bitcoin is the innovative money of information age

dude i was discussing with kids who claim "bitcoin is not a ponzi" 3 years ago. its fine, i have no problem with you newbies thinking its not a ponzi scheme. to me thats just incompetent nitpicking. early adopters and the coin-starters profiting from people joining in later when its hyped pretty much defines ponzi for me. only because someone is claiming "bitcoin is not a ponzi" doesn't make it so. there are also people on the internet claiming penguins are building catapults with the sinews and bones of humans on the dark side of the moon. im not gonna think its the truth only because someone said so. i actually have a brain.

Bitcoin is gold to me !

A nanobrain

thanks for making my case. all i hear as counterarguments is insults, apparently some people cannot cope with different opinions. have a nice day!

Bitcoin / cryptography is the tool to destroy the ponzi system of all ponzi systems: the society (= collectivism/patriarchy).
It will will bring back anarchy, which is humanism and the opposite of patriarchy.

The Bitcoiners are going to totally destroy your society and your "laws"

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470593.0

POC=Proof Of Concept

Miner = middleman

this doesn't even remotely make any sense to me. cryptocurrencies are the logical next step for private investment banks to increase their profits and keep control over the monetary supply. nothing changes, besides the gap between rich and poor widenening even faster. but you hardly notice the difference anyway, because due to the policies enacted, the gap would als widen without cryptocurrencies that offer the speculators and rich people new ways to increase their income.

what has out society to do with collectivism? what is your concept of "anarchy" and how is bitcoin involved in that?

They can't. They'll be obsolete as middlemen. No one needs them in a p2p-environment.


Anarchy is not a concept. Anarchy (self-sufficient communities) has been the natural state of humanity for a million years. Society / collectivism (= collectivized communities, organized in patronized, monogamous tribute families = patriarchy = organized violence) is an unnatural construct, enforced by militant terrorists (state and church).

really, 294 activity here and not the slightest clue about the basic problems of bitcoins?

never ever heard of any exchange or anything?



well ok i can work with your definition of anarchy. but you have to realize, this "collectivism" as you call it is just as "natural" as the anarchy. everything is natural in fact. eating your own children is "natural". i have my problems with the state and the church too. but there is one thing i fear more than the state, and thats capitalism. and i trust the state to be the last defense against privately owned armies.

No. Always being sick is not the natural state. It is a state of emergency and takes a comparatively short time.


BS. No state - no capitalism. No state - no armies. Capitalism, socialism, armies are state bastards.

o.O naive...

Regardless of the price per btc over the long haul, I truly believe that bitcoin has already permanently changed the world of finance.   We haven't even tipped the iceberg with the potential of the bitcoin protocol, and even if investors can no longer get rich off of holding bitcoins, the invention itself has unlocked the potential of a decentralized currency that the entire world can rely on..

History. Of which you do not seem to have much of a clue.

blablub. try to form a coherent argument to back up your delusional statements.

Good way to invest money especially when the bitcoin price is down.

Decentralisation = anarchy.  It's a currency without central control. no governing = anarchy.

Digital capitalism also fits

anarchistic capitalism also fits.

and no need to get arrogant please...

To 'discuss' with somebody who doesn't have any knowledge of historic facts is pointless. The epoch of statelessnes (self-sufficiency/anarchy) was the epoch of humans without armies. If you don't know anything about the history of anarchy you simply should shutup.

anarchy has nothing to do with "no governing" or decentralisation. anarchy essentially means "without rulers".

yeah, alot of people are using the term "anarchocapitalism" although many people like me think this is just an oxymoron. but well, opinions differ. i won't tell you whatever i say is the absolute truth and everything else is wrong. i just disagree that this can be somehow accurately labeled as anarchy/anarchism. its exactly the opposite to me - hierarchy. its a hierarchy of wealth - already wealthy people can mine and buy the majority of coins, while the majority gets nothing or just a neglible amount.

on most topics, im all for decentralization. not so for currency. i believe strongly that the currency we use must be centrally controlled, to prohobit abuse. with a "decentralized" currency, the richest people simply control it totally. they are the "community" that approves of or rejects changes to the bitcoin client, and so on.

Keep your petty insults to yourself, I am really not interested in them. Again, try to form a coherent argument on the topic, or just let it be. It's really your choice.

Historic facts don't need arguments. The history IS the argument against your fairy tales. The epoch of statelessnes (self-sufficiency/anarchy) was the epoch of humans without armies (anarchy).

I have heard many different definitions of Anarchy, but not even wikipedia has heard of your definition. I guess you are just making stuff up as you go. Hey, I love Raiders too!

The definition is simple:

Etymology

The word anarchy comes from the ancient Greek ἀναρχία, anarchia, from ἀν an, "not, without" + ἀρχός arkhos, "ruler", meaning "absence of a ruler", "without rulers")

Therefore: Where you aren't ruled by rulers, you are self-sufficient.

I told you a few posts ago it means "without rulers". good that you finally realize this too.

That anarchy means 'without rulers' knows everybody here. What some of those nanobrains don't understand is the simple fact, that anarchy means autarky (self-sufficiency), because you aren't ruled, and where people aren't ruled, you can't find militarism and armies.
Should be very easy to understand.

Bitcoin to me is the safest way to store money via several brainwallets. Governments, creditors, ex-wives, backstabbing family members cannot access the majority of my wealth anymore. For that matter, most won't even know about it.

I can travel from country to country with all my wealth stored in my head.

If I go to prison and lose everything, my wealth will be waiting for me when I get out. No need to trust family, banks, or friends.

I sleep well at night knowing my wealth is safely stored in my mind.

And yes, when I die, it will disappear forever...but you and every other Bitcoin owner will be a tiny bit richer.

My favorite type of money & idea its fanstastic and I hope to be able to use Bitcoin just like fiat and see fiat gone.

Another great example of the logic of bitcoin-users.

1. "If I marry a woman, and she is keeping up the house and raising kids while I earn money, she deserves not a cent of what I earned when I leave her, so I Bitcoins are cool because I can hide my money from her, since actual law states that the money I earn belongs to both. And I don't like laws that cost me money."

2. "Goverments want taxes?? Screw them!! I hide all my money in bitcoin wallets, they don't see a cent from me! Yeah they can provide and upkeep the internet infrastructure (and all the other infractructure) without which Bitcoin wouldn't even work, but they won't see a cent from me for this service! I am entitled to every single cent I inherit!"

and so on. very classical.

What bank was this and in what country?

Bitcoin to me is all the above:

It's a good way to earn money, either by selling goods or services or trading or mining.

It's a good proof of concept for the next monetary system, as it's still in its infancy, and can adjust to add things it's missing or add things that it needs work on.

It's the next monetary system, as it's decentralized, has the fastest transaction speed out of Paypal, Visa, Moneygram, Western Union, Visa, Bank wire, etc...

It is a kind of philosophy as it's ideas are fairly libertarian and promotes a type of "freedom", especially from institutions such as government and banks.

It's also "Nothing" as you can't see, hear, or feel Bitcoin.  It has no physical "weight" so to speak.  But it's ideals, it's protocols, it's code, it's distributed ledger, it's promise as a cryptocurrency carry so much more mass and heft in the grand scheme of things on a global level.

if property is freedom to you, i can't really help you.

to your last paragraph: you could just say "it has no intrinsic value"

The next monitory system which will give us financial freedom.
But its everything who is fully involved in Bitcoin.

What do you mean by property?

Some would argue that the fiat dollar doesn't have an intrinsic value either.  It's not really backed by Gold standard.  It's backed by the US Armies guns, tanks, and surface to air missiles or "Rule of Law"

All these failing countries economies around the world could use something like Bitcoin though.

yes of course fiat money doesn't really have any intrinsic value (besides the paper its beeing printed on, so it still has some intrinsic value as toilet paper or something)

For me, to act like a young teenage stock trader with a digital wallet make me look like I'm in the league of Extraordinary Bitcoin gentlemen, even though I have almost no funds in my wallet (yet ;) ), since I started a wallet 4 days ago

it is becoming a slightly unhealthy obsession...lol jk

for me too :D

What is the difference between a middleman and a miner or authority and fat pools ?

Sorry, i'm not fair, you will be the only one I will quote. Don't see there any offense :)

It's amazing how people made a such link between society concepts and banking systems (zeitgeist out of that body ! ;)).
I'm from Europe, in fact, and I don't experience the same connexion on the subject like americans or russians I think.

From my point of view, a banking system just allows people to exchange one thing with another with a reference value.
And the reference should be the same for each people who trust it.

What I find interesting in bitcoin, is that it has never been linked to material standard (gold standard for good old currency, even if it's no more true today, the past write the future). So, its reference is completely subjective. It's like performing a poker estimation for everything.

How do you calculate the value of an object in your mind ?

Do you compute the change with the current rate of your currency ?
(if true, I think everybody who reply "the next monetary system" have lied in some part)

Or can you say, ok, 1BTC is fair for an apple*, whatever the current rate ?
(if false, I think everybody who reply "the next monetary system" have lied in some part)

* the fruit :)

ah ah ah ... you trust this ?
well, read this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mII9NZ8MMVM

Freedom/independence from banks. No more banking system needed! Period!

Bitcoin technology replaces the fraudulent system of fractional reserve banking and inflationary fiat currency!

I agree completely

A future currency

To me it represents the possibility of positive change-

A better world will be built from the blockchain up because of bitcoin.

it is a good way to earn money if you have money to invest :P
or if you can earn by doing tasks like me :D

Btc for me is PERFECT money . Hate to see people trying to destroy it .

because sure it is true :)
it must be :)

I know bitcoin two month ago. I hope it can earn some money for me and become a medium to transfer.

That's not 100% accurate, unless you are confusing "property rights" with "private ownership of the means of production" which is generally referred in Marxism as "private property". Most original archists (Bakunin, Sorel, Proudhon... Even Kropotkin) were not against "personal property" (or "possession"), they were opposed to "private property" as all the thinkers influenced by the works of Karl Marx.

To clarify:

Personal property (or "possessions") = your house, your clothes, your kids toys, etc. The vast majority of anarchists were totally OK with personal property and agreed that nobody has the right to take that from you. Even communists agreed on that.

Private property = the land, the factory, etc. Anarchists believed that the owners of the means of production should be the workers themselves. If you are working a certain piece of land, then you decide directly what you do with the fruit of your labor. Nobody else can (not even the "state" or "the party" as communist say). If you are working for somebody else (a boss, or the state, or whatever) then you are "alienated" and inherently not free.

But yes, if what you meant is that anarchism and capitalism are pretty much the opposite, then you are right - in fact anarchism was born precisely as a reaction against capitalist society.

Capitalism just means "an economic system in which industry and the means of production are controlled by private owners" (that's the first line on "capitalism" on Wikipedia - a definition first used precisely by Karl Marx), and anarchism was strongly opposed to that. Just do not tell this to the US folks reading this forum who have had their brain washed by Rothbard's absurd "anarcho-capitalist" theory, which is pure and simply an oxymoron (don't know if he was trolling or just a retarded, but his "work" made quite an impact on US culture). Anarchism is about absolute freedom - no RULER, and that means no STATE and no BOSSES (private or public) and no WAGE SLAVERY. No coercition at all. That's the very foundation of anarchism - being anti-capitalist. If you have to do what someone else wants you to do in order to earn a salary, then that's the opposite of what Anarchism means.

Last but not least, Bitcoin has NOTHING to do with "digital anarchy".

(mods: sorry for the offtopic. Please move this to the appropiate subforum if you think its necessary).

you need to add "A Hobby" to the poll. 8)

Yeah , hobby , and ADDICTION ! :D

but what if i want to vote for more then 1 option...! because its more then just one thing..

Reply to a bad vote option:It most prolly wont be the next currency too many flaws. Maybe used in very rare instances

its the fuckin future

Bitcoin - cryptocurrency
Bitcoin - a chance to change the world
Bitcoin - building a huge community
Bitcoin :) ♥

of being history hahahaha!
[/color]
too many flaws in bitcoin right now.Either bitcoin improves or altcoin replaces bitcoin

No, no, I only trust in noise. But, I think this is what it should be, not more.
Interesting video, I'm not american, so, it's no sense for me or very reduced and I never buy what I can't afford. But, interesting.


You're right my friend, life is not fair ;)


I thought to this when saying "Proof Of Concept", but maybe yes, a POC is not fun as playing lego should.
Do you have in mind playing with hardware and so on ?

It looks like ponzi , It looks like new currecy , It looks like new business , It looks like everything

As Long As The Price Not Dropping  ;D

Not part of the topic, but do you know Zeitgeist movies ?
(there are mostly like oldies, but nice to watch)

it is everything!
in BitCoin we trust ! :P

Total freedom and anonymity!

Any one use Bitcoin for a hobby that is pretty cool if you can risk a lot of money for a hobby.

I use it for hobby , and i don't invest anything , my hobby is making it for free :D

It costs money to mine, so there needs to be some compensation specifically for miners.

One reason is that it allows permissionless innovation. Another is that it strips out a lot of the overheads. A third is that it decentralises. A (related) fourth is that it reduces the need to trust institutions. It reduces the power of governments and banks, and that's good, because power corrupts.

Mostly I see it as the next monetary system. I think crypto-currencies will be successful, and that Bitcoin is the crypto-currency most likely to "win". I'm aware of non-monetary applications, but they just don't seem as pressingly important.

What is that way :D ?

Everything. I want to marry my love, Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is money and Bitcoin is the way to do every thing.

Sign of freedom hope.

Barclays Private Clients International - Great Britain

Bitcoin is a ridiculous obsession that causes people to shake their heads around me when I gush about it.


It's also the greatest invention since the internet.