Bitcoin Forum

Hi folks!

Xandry (moderator of russian section and member of DT1/DT2 trustnet) left a negative feedback where is blamed me that I sells my account based on topic (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=555901.0) which was created 4 years ago! What a nonsense?

I want to remind there were no ICO, no bounty, no account sells, even no Xandry on this forum back in the day.

Such topic was created as joke to our forum opponents who wanted our departure from the forum. Yes we had many flames and forum was live in those days! All that is written there has nothing to do with sales and business at all.

As for Xandry person, we were against his appointment as moderator: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=961364.190

We believe that he's not an objective moderator who uses his provisions to solve personal grievances. Moreover being a "merit source" he using his merit for promotion his connected accounts (e.g. "esmanthra"): https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;u=1764764

Wether "Xandry" on this forum or not, wether that thread created long time ago or not, should not have any affect at all with you're being tagged. But if you're selling your account then get caught by DT member and left negative trust on you is only because of your actions, it's nothing to do with "Xandry".

I don't know wether that account you're claimed has any connection between "Xandry" or not, but when I looking the Merits received (only checked the history of last 120 days) for that member it seems like there may be some connection. Because there are 101 instances that "esmanthra" got Merited by other members while 52 instances by Xandry. When we compare the probability of "esmanthra" being merited by Xandry is 51.5% and the funny thing about is more than half (actually 30 out of 52) of Merited posts are being deleted /ignored/off- limits. That's not good stats for being a Merit source.

At the end of the day I think it's better to get a hearing from Xandry regarding these claims.

A similar claim was treated on a topic opened a couple of months ago as can be seen here:  [staff] xandry: may I ask an explanation? Response received! (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4330297.msg38817096#msg38817096).
It turns out Xandry gave out merit to users that helped him clean the Russian forum by reporting, and often the posts that acted as reports were deleted after being merited for their report. That leads to multiple merits currently awarded to deleted posts. I think that after the referenced thread, Xandry dropped this line of merit awarding. There are two users that have been merited more merit by Xandry than esmanthra (Alex Sr. and inbizin), but that fact alone proves nothing really. There are staff and merit sources that have awarded more sMerit to a single user than Xandry, and I haven’t seen anyone questioning them.

I would say that if there was anything really off with Xandry’s merit awarding habits, theymos would have acted accordingly after the above referenced thread. We’ve seen no action, so I figure he’s in the clear unless someone draws something really really solid.

Did you try sorting out the matter with the concerned mod ?  Sometimes there might be misunderstanding and it can be easily resolved with a pm.

Posting this on the forum without taking that step is not professional. If you had done that and then made this post, please ignore my reply. I hope you are able to sort this out.

Xandry left the feedback in March (this year). I think he was added to DT2 only recently (by hilariousandco), that's why his red trust suddenly showed up.

There have been similar cases in which someone's years-old account trading surfaced recently. Years ago, account trading wasn't punished by DT, and spam was much less of a problem on the forum. Therefore, none of the current DT-members would tag those accounts now.
Based on the same logic, you shouldn't be tagged either. I'd say discuss it with xandry, or else hilariousandco.

---

I don't think "corruption" is the right word here, unless someone paid him to do this.

I am NOT SELLING my account, as I explained before, since this topic had no relation to the sale at all.

This topic was created to emphasize the absurdity of the situation in the buisness section of the Russian location that occurred 4-5 years ago. As I said before this forum was way different that you know it now.

I would like the administration to objectively evaluate the actions of the moderator who use merit for promotion own connected accounts and uses its position in the trustnet for false negative feedbacks.

Yep, I'm sure that's what happened, since I got a similar backlash from account sellers & scammers when I was added to DT.

However:
I agree, and 2014 is way too far back to go as far as tagging account sellers.  I would imagine there's probably something else going on here, but it would be best to hear from Xandry himself about it.

Hey, all. Thanks for this funny thread.
I'm sure that accounts Pivo (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=102276) and stahanovec (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=112138) are sold in this (or at least in december 2017) year. And one person possessed them - to the political troll.

ok, let's start with stahanovec (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=112138). Just look at his posts history:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=112138;sa=showPosts

From begining to November 10, 2017 almost posts (i think it's about 99%) he was posted in Пoлитикa (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=91.0) (Politics) section. And i never seen he in signature campaigns. About what there were his posts? Trolling of liberals and ukrainians - anyone who understanding russian can find insults and obscene expressions on any page of posts history before 10.01.2018.

Then two months of silence have followed: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=112138;sa=showPosts;start=320

And then he has suddenly replaced activity from political trolling to bounty: there are no more posts about policy, no more insults, even the speech became polite. Posts now in altcoins, news and of course in accounts sellers threads:
Кyплю мecтный aккayнт "LEGENDARY" (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2807879.msg28993302#msg28993302)
[JR. MEMBER] Пpoдaю пo пpиeмлeнным цeнaм! (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2815440.msg28994244#msg28994244)
Пpoдaю личный aккayнт member, 55$ (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2631774.msg28994439#msg28994439)
Sr.member Hero member ПPOДAM AККAУHTЫ (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2867464.msg29446339#msg29446339)
Пpoдaю ceньopa. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2863606.msg29448550#msg29448550)
Пpoдaм aккayнт Legendary. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3036966.msg31420053#msg31420053)

Now, I think, this topic can be specified as reference instead of old.
Nope. He didn't even try to do it.

---

Same story with stahanovec (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=112138) previous owner -> Pivo (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=102276): https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=102276;sa=showPosts;start=1640
Only trolling in politics section before November 19, 2017 and from December 27, 2017 he has lost memory and doesn't know Russian language as well as something about politics any more.

Sorry for broken English. I would like to know English also well as esmanthra (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1764764). ;)

Continue? Yes! -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4817399.msg43699675#msg43699675

Can you post something with the Pivo account?

As far as I know Pivo and Stahanovec are two different persons. They were active in mining threads and politic (after ukrainian crisis) and often acted as opponents to each other. So I would not say that they are connected accounts. I think we have some misunderstanding.

xandry, you are writing nonsense. The person has brought to you the argument that the topic you refer to in his trust is in no way related with business.

I think this should be in reputation rather than in Meta. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=129.0

I thought it was explained once and for all that selling and buying accounts are not a crime here (unfortunately). Then why all these red trust issues connected to it? Looks like it only allowed to chosen ones and rest will get red trust because of it. I hate double standards even more than unfair rank up for ones who can afford to buy accounts or merits.

All right you say. In this case, we even have a saying in Russia: - You either take off the cross or put on your pants.

Elementary example:
You long time communicate with the person and you begin to trust him.

Suddenly he completely changes the personality, he doesn't remember you, but continues to claim that it he.

Will you also trust him as earlier? Will you entrust him some money if he ask? Whether you will recommend him to others as reliable person?

Discouraged with negative trust.

Trust is not connected to forum rules actually - it's... you know, a trust - the way to show someone if you trust him and if you recommend anybody to deal with him. If you sell accounts you don't commit a crime (otherwise you'd be banned for that), but from people's point of view your activity is questionable (as a minimum) and they don't have to approve it or rely on you - even if it was a joke. I mean we talk about moods and mindsets of different persons here and in fact it's completely up to them who they trust in and why.

Hi Xandry!

I don't know what you talking about.

Yes I was active in political topics until middle autumn of 2017 but I lost my interest to this topic due to political bots. I sent you lot of reports on their shit posts but you have not acted. Moreover I am member of signature campaigns as far as you noticed. As you know trolling and flames are forbidden for members. So what?

If necessary I am ready to provide any evidence I'm the owner of this account since 2013. What about you? Are you ready to make a public apology?

You write complete nonsense about connected xandry accounts. Trying to "put it all in one basket".

If you count the number of posts written by "connected accounts" then the day xandry should be at least 72 hours.

I also have a lot of merit from xandry, but this issue has already been discussed 100500 times in our forum section and Meta section!

Nonsense? Nonsense is unfounded accusations in my address. But we can see facts that Xandy left around 50 merits to esmanthra for worthless messages. It looks like hidden promotion such account.


I see your merited messages are worthless as esmanthra's since most of them in "(Deleted/Off-limits/Ignored)" topic. You are doing abusing the merit system in that way.

Storyteller. xandry you and esmanthra already tons of Merit handed over:

http://s5.uploads.ru/t/Ohfjm.png (http://uploads.ru/Ohfjm.png)

http://s9.uploads.ru/t/EZAUf.png (http://uploads.ru/EZAUf.png)

You are even in this topic do not hesitate to transfer Merit.

Tell me how you are not related to each other.  ;D

That's a shame!  :-\

I feel sorry to many guys who tries to write useful materials without merits.

Study these topics carefully. It was a long time ago, but it was. With Russian I think you have no problems?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2960503.msg30588407#msg30588407
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2978854.0

Conclusions can be made very simply  ;) Does it look like "connected accounts"?


Well, let's discuss it 100501 times - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4260670.msg38505914#msg38505914


Once "connected accounts" woken up after half a year of absence on the forum  ;D ;D ;D

https://c.radikal.ru/c08/1808/74/13113f2a8f7d.png (https://radikal.ru)

I have some deleted posts in between, but I no longer have interest to write something because of people like you who abusing merit system.

No problem.

You better tell me, is this message worthy of Merit? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3235672.msg33694629#msg33694629

I hope you do not have to say that this is the only marked xandry of 100500 messages that has not been deleted in 120 days? Everything else in the summary or in the screenshot above...

That is, you are on the train and do not understand jokes. What to talk about with you?

I understand everything clearly. But I will remind you that here people are accused of what they did not do. What's the point in your jokes?

That's your "merit sponsor" who tagged 4 year old topic have no humor...

My Russian is not good but I do read a lot in the Russian topic section. But I live in an English speaking country. I can assure you that there is a noticable difference in the English grammar used by esmanthra and by xandry. They are definitely not the same person.

Xandry is a merit source and will have given merit to mainly Russian speaking topics which would link him to almost every Russian account.
With a merit source there are always going to be people that they merit more because they like their work.
The deleted/off topic posts were explained here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4330297.0

https://i.imgur.com/MjZN4Ip.png

LOL, this puppet show is almost as good as some of Quicksy's threads.

Even if we believe that there are multiple asshole account traders/spammers all acutely butthurt towards xandry - doesn't make any difference. All seem to deserve to be labeled as such.

Even if a person confirms their account?  ::)

With the same success and you can be attributed to the above. Just because I wanted so much.  ;)

Merit system implies promotion quality posts. Most of messages of deleted/off topic are useless. Just these guys are using merit for promotion accounts in such way. That's fraud.

It is interesting that a tagged account seller is defending the OP for a bought account accusation.

https://archive.fo/mLJv2

https://i.imgur.com/sS9ESvV.png

Does it prove or disprove something?

I never concealed this secret of a political man. This is not prohibited by your own rules, which you try to ignore.

I disagree. Fraud is where there is "mens rea". (Definition: The intention or knowledge of wrongdoing, as opposed to the action or conduct).

They were using the merit system in a different way to it was intended but not without the same goals of reducing spam in mind.


Rules also state that account sales are discouraged - which implies that there is a potential consequence.

Really? Spam is over? Don't be fool, if there is way using something for profit they will do it.

No one is asking for encouragement. Just leave sellers alone.

Have you seen some of the other local boards ? The Russian section is extremely tidy in comparison.

It's common knowledge that xandry, all moderators, all merit sources, and half of DT are my alts. Now that we're done with this round of bullshit and fallacies feel free to go ahead and post that "confirmation" or whatever it is you're waffling about.

Discourage definition : prevent or try to prevent (something) by showing disapproval or creating difficulties.

You are too high opinion of yourself.  ;D

Reread the first message and you will feel that the conversation is not about you.  ;)

Create difficulties for these scammers, which are quite a lot here.
If the seller cheated, then such a seller should be punished.
But punishment can not be just because I'm a salesman.
Is it logical?

If you sell someone a gun - in a lot of countries you will be charged as an accessory to the crime that is committed with the gun.

If you sell an account and get caught - then you ignored the "discouraged" part of the rule.
18. Having multiple accounts and account sales are allowed, but account sales are discouraged.

Do not do fudge. There are clear rules.


In the Russian section, the rules look like this:


Black (red) in white says that sales are not prohibited! All the rest is advisory in nature.

If it were prohibited you'd be banned. But it's not prohibited so you're not banned, you just have an "advisory" on your trust profile.

Are you kidding? Russian section still contains ~3,400,000 posts that's 10 times more than any other local board. I would say more, that many old russian users left this forum due to permanent spam and bots.

No, you do not read me. I wrote to you in English that they do not discuss you or me here. My profile does not need anybody's recommendations.  ;)

And also because of the stupid merit system. Merit - fraud!

Perhaps you shouldn't post anything. Because if you don't create a conversation then you won't get any replies.  ;D


Bots and spam - caused by account farmers that sell the accounts to other users for bounty and signature campaigns or use the farmed accounts themselves for bounty or signature campaigns.

The Russian section was the first local board to be introduced and by far the largest and most active local board. I feel sympathy for the moderators.

Yeah or use merit for promotion new accounts. Is that right?  ;)

I gave a vivid example of how merites are pumped. But I did not receive a sensible answer. But I received accusations that I am a seller.
Or in the world of white people, the seller has no right to speak?  ;D

I think if you read the  link (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4330297.0) I posted much earlier (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4817399.msg43674641#msg43674641) - it was all discussed there. Using merit to reward spam reporters is no longer done by the Russian moderators because account farmers were abusing that method of awarding merit.

It was not the moderators or merit source that were abusing it - it were the account farmers that were manipulating the system.

It is generally account farmers and bounty chasers that complain about the merit system. They are the only ones disadvantaged by it.

The merit system was designed to disadvantage them - the complaints prove the merit system works as intended.


I gave a comprehensive explanation here:

I didn't repeat the whole thread where it was discussed  - but I did post a link to it so you could read what was already discussed at length without having to repeat the whole entire conversation again.

Let it be known to you that the "farmers of accounts" do not need merits for nothing.
What can not be said about informers and other rascals.

Perhaps you can explain that in further detail. This will be interesting.

Account farmers don't need merit to rank up their accounts so they can sell it for more ? So they can use those accounts in bounty and signature campaigns ?

What do the "rascals" and "informers" need the merits for ?

I am sure that they stopped doing it after mdayonliner's topic. At least the last one was 29 june. But several persons have got a lot of merit using this way. Personally I consider it like a fraud.


There is no ideal system. Personally I see some speculations in such case.

Ordinary sellers act as intermediaries. Farmers, those who create their own accounts, it is easier to buy merit. theymos, in fact, created an additional black market in order to sell merits.

Informers are looking for potential sellers or buyers, in the hope of receiving merits. That is, they do not bring any objective benefit.

So what you are saying is that the merit farmers sell merit to the account farmers which sell the accounts to the account sellers.

Just because the "subcontract" the merit farming - the account farmers are still the ones that want the merit.

If it is costing account farmers to by merit then the system is working - it means less accounts and the accounts will cost more.

It means the merit discouragement is working.


I still don't see why the "informers" and other "rascals" want merit - unless they are part of the account farming enterprise.

They like you are guided by the rules that sales are not recommended.

I'll summarize, and then apparently clumsy translation does not give a complete picture:
The system of extensions works only for the sake of the informers, sellers of merits and accounts, generators of 100500 meaningless messages (I cited an example) and other dubious personalities. Which do not benefit the community. That is, the only beneficiaries are the dregs of the community.
All that is really useful, appeared when the forum consisted of enthusiasts.

I understand that opinion.

Personally I think it was an experiment with good intention from the moderators. But it had potential for abuse and resulted in "industrial scale" reporting.

It was also flawed in the sense where it was open to abuse by people with bad intent. The moderators saw this and abandoned those methods.

I don't see a problem with trying something to see if it works and when it is pointed out that it had flaws they abandoned it. I think it shows initiative but also shows that they listened to the feedback objectively.

It also should be taken into account that the Ukraine and Russia are known spam locations and Russian trolls are among the worlds best.

With just two moderators on the largest local language board they have a big workload.

https://i.imgur.com/g2tREkc.png

Yet you're the one asking right here in this thread to


You (and other sellers) have the freedom to sell accounts and other members have the freedom to comment on your behavior. If you don't like this form of discouragement - it seems to be working.

Where did you get that I do not like the comments? I'm just wondering what will change if you tell everyone that I'm a salesman? If this is so open information.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_secret

I stressed that the topic is not about me. But if you want to leave a response, then I do not mind. It's your right.

I agree that the early forum was very different to the way it was now. It was very development focused from every angle. A huge amount of enthusiasm and innovation happened then.

It still happens but it is harder to find - between the regurgitated topics, bounty, ann and other spam topics.

It is progress...  ::)

But that is the nature of "mass adoption" of crypto. We are in the manic phase.

On some of the exchanges I trade we were chatting to the owner developers on an almost daily basis - just daily gossip. Two years later I can hardly get an email back from them because they are swamped with work. All development work is now handled by their many staff.

Developers have retreated because it is hard to deal with "the masses" of uninformed people riding the crypto mania wave. They have retreated to other methods of communication to extend their development work.

My apologies. I misinterpreted this post:


Let me have another shot at it. Does it mean this:

https://www.marsvenus.com/blog/lauren-gray/what-leave-me-alone-actually-means-in-a-relationship


How do I make it up to you?

Once again, for those who can not calm down  ;D

THEME IS NOT ABOUT SELLERS! JUST LEAVE SELLERS ALONE!  :D

By the way your post has received merits. Can I clarify for what?  ::)

I'm confused. I just read the part:
But…what if she lies?


I gave Suchmoon merit because it is funny. I almost choked on my coffee when I read it.
In my opinion Suchmoon is one of the most entertaining quality posters on bitcointalk.
(also doesn't need any merit because they are a merit source and cannot rank up any further - so it is purely for the quality of the post)

It happens when an opponent builds a translation relying on journals about intimate relationships  :'(


No problem. I understand his irony.
I probably also could not resist joking if someone English-speakers went to the Russian section.

I'm a moderator on another site. I speak very limited Russian but I try.
I know sometimes some the Russians poke fun at me. Sometimes it is clever and funny.
Some of the subtle sarcasm is very hard to detect.  ;D

It has nothing to do with Russian or English. It's your red-herring debate style that is ludicrous in any language.

So where's that confirmation of something or other that you (or the OP) were supposed to provide?

If you really knew the languages, then after reading the first post, as well as the topic referred to (OP), then no more stupid questions asked.

It is by the way one more example of your extraordinary transformation and change of the personality. You remember how you called those who participate in signature campaigns? I can remind you:

Also as your (previous?) alt - Pivo (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=102276) wich even creates a thread "bitmixer whore's in politics!" in his lovely section:    
Пpocтитyтки BITMIXER.IO в пoлитикe! (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1253260.msg12998303#msg12998303)
Where also unreasonably accused me of creation some flood bots.

I don't see such rules for your signature campaign:


And you want to say what without paid signature trolling was allowed?

 
Now it is understandable why xandry is so prejudiced against these two comrades. Old grievances and revenge, using the position of a member of DT1 / DT2.  ;D

Xandry you are disingenuous. I told you once and repeat again, I hate bots and multi-accounts who used signature compains, russian local board was full of this shit, especcially of "Bitmixer.io". You should have cleaned the forum of this, but you did not do it. That was my reason why I was not active last autumn.

I would ask you to stop talking nonsense about connected accounts. Pivo has never been of mine account, he is another person even with different political views. You know it since you have deleted lot of our posts in political threads. You are lying and mislead people now.

So I demand your apology and you must remove your negative feedback since you blamed me without solid evidence.