Bitcoin Forum

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This is big, very big, similar to an ETF approved. You will be able to buy Bitcoin easily, all the computer illiterate boomers that just can't get their heads around downloading a wallet and securing the coins, will be able to get Bitcoin exposure. And they seem to be serious: No shitcoins, only Bitcoin.

While the fact that Bitcoin is owning your private keys and nothing else, I don't mind if computer illiterates with a ton of money to spend use these other ways to get exposure to Bitcoin on their portfolios since we will benefit from it price wise.

I believe we will finally start seeing solid upwards traction after the summer or a bit earlier.

It is another big step in bitcoin adoption. Many are saying that this will make bitcoin ETF redundant.
If you are out of loop, read this article to get you up to date:
https://finrazor.com/news/bombshell-message-the-first-large-scale-regulated-exchange-for-institutional-investors

Hopefully, things will turn out better than they were after bitcoin futures were intoduced.

I also make this pray "that things turn out positive than there were after introduction of bitcoin future" many traders and investors has really lose money because of bitcoin future and some are still losing money because of the ways market is now.

Let’s fucking hope so, I’m not going to get excited though. I’m fed up of pinning my hopes on news articles which end up amounting to nothing. If we see $100,000 valued bitcoin’s though I will be a rich man as will many of us here.

meh, this sounds like more empty hype (just like the ETFs). "if you build it, they will come!"

you assume there is all this latent demand for bitcoin exposure that is waiting on the sidelines---why? it's not how the human mind (and therefore markets) work. people and institutions who want bitcoin exposure because of its astronomical gains don't say to themselves, "no problem, i'll just wait 2 years or 6 years for the right derivative security product to be approved by the SEC!" lol. and there isn't much volume in the regulated swaps and futures markets. what makes this so different?

also, it's not all good news. like you said, all this latent demand you think exists is from people who don't understand the point of BTC anyway. we like to think people understand the difference between "real assets" and "paper assets" but most don't. and if there is so much latent demand for paper bitcoins, as you suggest, that opens big opportunities for spot market manipulation, just like the gold markets: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4826941.msg43553439#msg43553439

Nope. We'll remain below $10,000 for the rest of the year. We are dealing with plenty of bagholders and floating coins that need to be bought up. In other words, there is too much selling pressure, and more selling pressure will pop up once bagholders are tempted to sell.

On paper everything around BAKKT sounds great, but we can't just assume that it will even remotely dent the market without seeing them put their words to work.

We have been bombarded with good news that theoretically could do this or that to Bitcoin's price in a positive manner, but everything the mainstream media hypes up is doomed to fail. Interesting counter point is that the mainstream media isn't at all convinced of an ETF approval, which gives me a little bit more believe in a positive outcome.

100,000$ is not a possible short term target but it will definitely give a lot of hype in tge market when this venture starts operating. The hype it will create will definitely be bigger than what the ETF news has brought to the market. I do expect that this will make BTC to finally cross 10,000$. Also this will depend on how the news will be taken by traders as this might be nothing for them maybe the news will gain some traction ones November is near and news media will provide more coverage about it.

Bakkt is a trojan horse for so many reasons:
1. paper over "real" btc
2. control over which accounts/funds transact and which don't
3. introducing middleman (trusted party) that is expressly rejected by the bitcoin protocol

etc, etc

I don't give a s-t about any perceived liquidity "positives".
Negatives make it a stillbirth.

Yeah I read about that news, but to be honest, I don't that it has enough power to push the price to even get to $10K. I don't want to sound negative, but I personally believed that the bear season will continue up to the end of the year and there will be no new all-time-highs at the end of the year. I would be happy to see bitcoin at least achieved 5 digits and I think that should be the goal for now. This news doesn't have any weight to for us to go North as investors are very reluctant to pour their cash, not in this bearish trend.

Not all bagholders are stupid enough to sell. A lot of people that got in at the peak of MtGox got in for the long term, they understood they were potentially buying the peak, but at the same time, when Bitcoin goes parabolic sky is the limit and nobody knows if you are buying at a good time or not. Sometimes it's good to take a chance because maybe it crashes above your entry point.

So all these people that bought at the $1300 peak in 2013 and held for a couple of years are obviously very well off these days and happy to keep holding.

I certainly believe we have a ton of short term speculators that still need to sell because they have no idea about what Bitcoin is and aren't going to hold long term but I don't believe in this notion of having a massive amount of bagholders vs long term holders. Anyone that bought at the 2013 peak is now going to continue holding because they know they are safe and their entry points will not be challenged. Eventually buyers in 2017 peak will be one of these too. On a long enough timeline holders will defeat sellers as it becomes obvious the only asset you can claim to own is Bitcoin and everything else is subject to risk of counterfeit.

I don't think so. Everyone with common sense will simply pass on peak levels and wait for the price to settle at way lower levels. Bitcoin has always proven to fall down significantly after every bull run. If people pull the trigger and buy at peak levels, it's mostly done to book very short term profits because they buy into the momentum, and not Bitcoin's long term potential. That directly applies to all the peak buyers of last year.

People are strong holders as long as the price keeps going up, but they get REKT during a longer term downtrend. If the price jumps up they will likely liquidate under or close to their break-even point. Some might end up holding through longer, but then they will sell later on anyway. In other words, the short term market has to deal with various levels of selling pressure depending on how much it goes up.

It sounds like Bakkt are intending to build their own second layer. I'd like to hear more details about that before anything else. That could encompass much oddness and sin.

At a guess you'll be depositing your crypto with them and getting some token to play with in return that's fully redeemable, for now, it's not as if Bitcoin will fork to accommodate whatever plan they have.

This ETF thing is really big. But the process is still unclear. Approval and rejection is not very important right now. Bitcoin has some trust issues. ETF can find the solution to this.

Only in november this road starting? Why so later and not is September? I agree with title, the price of bitcoin can grow to 100.000$ after some time.

I like how all these developments spark serious discussion on how Bitcoin shouldn't be a tool that wall street will jump into and maybe even dominate in the far future.

The interesting part is that people want to see the price go up, rather today than tomorrow, but they don't want large institutions to fuel the 'moon rocket', which is actually quite contradicting.

Institutions are the last part of adoption and the only parties being capable of injecting potentially hundreds of billions in this industry, which retailers aren't capable of no matter how hard they try.

Eventually even $100,000 will prove to be a great buy.

If this was truly great news we would be over $10K+ by now.

However we already have futures with both very low volumes that nobody cares about.

Maybe that they are physically settled might make a difference but I think the ETF approval would be a more bullish move.

On the downside of a bubble no news will turn things around. And this is a prime example of 'good' news - kinda cool sounding, nothing definite detail wise, may happen in the future.

Why would you pump on that?

Sounds beautiful to the ears but i think Bitcoin $100,000 is  really impossible to happen because the more the Bitcoin will become too expensive to purchase then the more of the small time investors will be force to shift to Altcoins because it is much cheaper to start for an investments. Maybe $20k to $30k is much possible and i hope that it will be before this year would end.

yeah i don't like this "paper over real bitcoin" either and i don't think it is good at all. if this was a real bitcoin exchange like Coinbase, etc. then you could bet your ass that this is the road to $100k because that would have been a good fuel for a big adoption surge. but i am not so sure about this one.

this assumes that everyone who buys bitcoin is or wants to be a trader but that is not true. many are just investing their money in bitcoin. in other words they are dumping their fiat for BTC. for example imagine an employee who sets aside 5% of his monthly paycheck to invest in bitcoin. he can't hang around in the market watching when the rise ends and when it reaches the bottom to buy while holding those 5%s each month until the bottom is reached! he buys each month. and in a couple of years when bitcoin is a lot higher like $100k he already has a considerable amount of bitcoin stored.

This is 100% hype and nothing more.Last year  Segwit and Lightning Network  were promoted as the big "solution" that bring bitcoin to the masses and make the btc price 100K USD.They are in the past.Now this BAKKT company/project  is supposed to make the newbies believe that the price will skyrocket,so they could start buying lots of btc.By the way,BAKKT is a horrible name/brand.Is this name some kind of abbreviation?

Segwit is a malleability fix and has opened Bitcoin to make inclusive soft forks for Schnorr and other "upgrades". The "increase" in block size was a side-effect. The Lightning Network is an off-chain scaling solution. None of the developers have said that both of them would make Bitcoin "skyrocket".

But I agree that Bakkt press release is hype.

That sounds great but I wouldn't expect much about it. It's just a prediction after all. Well, atleast I have read something good rather than reading FUD by a newly made account. If this was true, for sure haters will still have a negative to say.

well, maybe I should hold bitcoin a little more to see, and get involved in this price increase. well, I really hope bitcoin prices will be higher after October. I think this is a crisis year for crypto users. we haven't seen a very high price for now.

How do you know people are actually doing that, and at what scale? Nothing changes the fact that the majority (ok, not everyone) of the people during bull runs buy themselves into the momentum, and not in Bitcoin's long term whatever it may be price. If you look at how many coins there are in circulation right now, it's far more than before the bull run started. That doesn't indicate people locking their coins away for the long term.

The few people actually investing in Bitcoin for the long term can't even dent the selling force that we're already dealing with and will deal with even more the higher the price climbs up. We need something to spark buyer interest to get rid of the floating coins, otherwise it can take more than a year from now before we see improvement.

A lot of people have this mentality but it just plain isn't true. That's what happened towards the end of 2017, a lot of newbies saw how much BTC was and how cheap these other coins are, so they bought them instead. Doesn't make sense though, as owning one full coin is just psychological. Owning .01 BTC is the same as owning one litecoin. It doesn't matter if you have one full coin or not, as I said, that's purely psychological. If Bitcoin hits $100k, small-time investors can still buy Bitcoin in small denominations.

what the actual fuck?!
who do they think they are LOL. bitcoin is already a trusted global currency because it is decentralized and secured and more importantly because it is working without needing station in US exchanges to make it so :D

kidding aside, this is not all a bad thing. at least they see bitcoin as what it actually is (a currency).

No, but the OP said it is a "road" to 100k, not that it will be 100k right on November. This road can take months or years.




Rejected not only by the protocol, but by the users as well. However, the sheeple think otherwise, as they love the State, regulations, media, churches, institutions dictating their thoughts. Its how they are. If we want massive adoption and price increase, we will have to learn to live with it.

This is the outcome I'm likelier to believe I'll see too, and I think it suits me just fine. I will admit, if we see a new low this year more than once, I'll be slightly deflated, but I've been fully expecting 10k not to be seen again for over a year.

Selling pressure is massive, you've got the bagholders like you said, you've got the first wave of institutional investors who got in mid 2017 regretting they didn't push the button in Dec/Jan (yes, that's when they started coming in, not lurking in wait like they want us to believe), we've also got a lot of PE funds who entered in the same period needing to clear some performance figures by December 2018. So every bit of new money coming in will be staved off by all these waiting in line for their share of the rises.

Also more evidence that news, good or bad, doesn't really change market pressure, even if sentiment can sway.

to reach a price of $ 100k it takes a very long time, it is impossible that it will happen in 1 or 2 years. in that trip, the price of bitcoin will definitely experience a correction.

The correction is happening now. Reaching six figures is possible if there's another bubble. The halving is in 2020, plus the current bubble will be completely put to bed by then. That makes it the most likely candidate for more insanity.

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-70e8b56e583edb4c6e9bb1058b257bbe

We've had "it's a bubble don't buy" news evey since. You either get in or don't. People that bought at $3000 bought into an all time graph that looked pretty bubble-ish. But if they got in because they understood the fundamentals, then they would be ready for anything. And actually the ones that did turned out great not because it peaked at $20000 but because it flattened above $3000 (I doubt we are going to ever be at $3000 again)

It's all about how you approach your entry point. I say if someone has 0 BTC, they should get some immediately, and just hold it. If you understand the fundamentals you can forget about USD valuations. You understand the risk is actually not owning any and trying to time the market waiting for a dream entry point that may not come.

You only graduate in Bitcoin after surviving a 70%+ crash and holding thought it alive.

I think that the growth of the bitcoin price will be at least from October, but up to one hundred thousand dollars it will not reach the end of the year, nor in the near future. In general, I doubt that bitcoin will ever reach a price of one hundred thousand dollars. As soon as he periodically rises in price, immediately there will be various circumstances that will prevent such growth of his rate.

finally, an opinion i can get behind!

i really wish bitcoiners with dollar signs in their eyes would stop glorifying third party custodians and acting like paper "backed" by BTC is a good thing for anybody. even once we get past the issue of trust, paper markets (because of their heavy volume) can also potentially be used to manipulate the market. just ask gold traders. :P

"Trust" is a security hole. One of the motivations on why Bitcoin is continually being developed is to give the world a permisionless, trustless form of "hard" money. It also made the term "do not trust, verify".

But you are correct. If they believe they are needed to make Bitcoin a "trusted brand of currency", then Bitcoin may have gone over their heads.

The ETF approval in August 10 was also seen as the ultimate step to turn the market bullish, although everybody was saying the the ETF news are just hype and the chances to pass now are slim.
And the result? The ETF was postponed and Bitcoin have lost more 500$ in less than 10 hours.

The post which stands out for me also is by Biodom above.
Its the word "trusted" in the OP'S screenshot. We dont need trust, bitcoin doesnt need trust.
It sounds like they dont like the trustless nature if Bitcoin, they are looking to make it something it isnt.

I don't think SW and LN were the big solutions or hyped. At least not by the developers or Bitcoiners, typically the hype (as well as scorn) was poured over it by the non-Bitcoiners. SW was in the works for many years, as will be LN. These are natural, organic development upgrades, to me. As natural and organic as scaling solutions can be.

Can't and won't give a care about Bakkt and whatever institutional nonsense people will come up with. Whatever effect they have on price (I don't think much) is temporary, and will be forgotten in the grand scheme.

Maybe in the beginning it will push the price up. That is only while the hype is on. That always happens when there is something new about bitcoin. But when the dust settles, I believe it will not have that much effect on the price of bitcoin. It will be just another long and dragging correction and consolidation after the hype.

Of course the market reacted on this news, most people think this is the end of story for BTC ETF, but is is just postponed for September and it will be probably postponed for December and then for next year. We now see that only reason for reaching 8000$+ was because of ETF speculation, and BAKKT project for the time being has no effect on price. The reason for that can be just because this is something that will not really succeed or media have not yet started to pump the news and creating FOMO.

By what is posted in OP this is much bigger then ETF, but what's with the permissions - is this project need approval from some agency or they can implement this project without special approvals?

I think this BAKKT thing doesn't not require the same permissions from the SEC to get started as the ETF does, and basically the end result is similar: it allows people to get exposure to BTC even if they are computer illiterates but have money an understand Bitcoin is a must have in any 2018 financial portfolio.

The ETF getting postponed is very obvious. I predict we are not going to have ETF this year, or next year. 2020? we'll see. I just don't see how Bitcoin will ever meet the required criteria for the SEC to approve the ETF. The main point of Bitcoin is that it cannot be regulated and it doesn't need the approval of anyone to exist and function, so this is against the ETF ever getting approved. This fact also flies past the investor's head that are getting into BTC because of the ETF news. Once all of these ETF-dependant investors-speculator are gone, we'll be better off long term even if we end up with a lower price in the short-mid term.

If you are going to speculate with the price short-mid term you better pay attention to these news because they obviously matter and have the power to move the price whether we like it or not. It would be only delusional to think they don't have the power to manipulate the price at these time ranges. On a long term 10+ year obviously it escapes everyone's control.

I'm interested in how many of these grand plans will survive a lengthy period of nothingness and gloom.

Circle said they were throwing in Bitcoin retail due to low interest in 2016.

https://www.coindesk.com/blockchain-industry-circle-bitcoin-shift-stop-payments/

Funnily enough that wasn't too long before things really started to move. I wonder how much profit they turned down there.

We could well be looking at little to no action until 2020. Operations like this could be eating millions per week or month with little prospect of a return on the horizon. It's also impossible to predict when things go mad again.

Presumably someone involved has planned for this. I wonder if all investors will be happy to swallow it for as long as it takes.

This is what I don't understand about this market. Bitcoin pumps on the idea that ETF is coming. Bitcoin dumps when ETF decision gets delayed. BAKKT get announced that not only does everythung the ETF would do but also partners with huge retailers who will help promote adoption and the price tanks? Reminds me of 2014 when lots of good news was happening but had no effect on the price.

Have you not noticed the level of reading comprehension the average Bitcoiner displays?

Most don't get beyond the first two words of a headline, let alone the whole headline, let alone the beginning of an article, let alone a whole article. By the final sentence 99.7% of people will be long gone.

Digesting the Bakkt thing requires at least, ooh, a minute or two.

In most tiny minds ETF = MOOON and nothing but. And no ETF = DOOOOM.

yeah i remember laughing pretty hard over the timing of circle's exit back then. also funny to see them buying poloniex right when the bubble popped. these companies get caught up in the hype and exuberance just like us regular folk. :)

the better capitalized companies will weather the storm; others, less so.


i suspect these guys are in it for the long term. they say the company has been in planning for 14 months. with a november launch date, at least they've given themselves ~ a year since the bubble popped.

like you say, it's impossible to predict. it's possible (though unlikely perhaps) that we could have a situation like summer 2013 too.

But do you really believe that the "average Bitcoiner" as a collective move the market? No. We are sheep who lose if we buy and sell depending if it is "good news" or "bad news" because we act last.

As a counter-strategy, we should keep buying the dip. If market manipulators want to crash the market, so be it. We buy.

According to what can be read about BAKKT project its development started about 14 months ago. I assume that most of the things from the regulatory / legal side it's already done since they announced start in November. But by one article they still wait for approvals regarding institutional investors, although I do not know which agencies must give their approval.




I must unfortunately agree with your comment, the vast majority of people does not understand the difference between words "delay" and "denied". Just because of ignorance it is very easy to manipulate with crypto market, 2000$ up and down in a very short period of time based on ETF speculations is the most obvious example of this.

Lack of understanding BAKKT from ordinary users is actually expected, or maybe most of them think it is just one more "big thing" like futures or ETF which will not actually have any impact on the price. I think it will be difficult to return trust from ordinary small investors after last price correction - 14000$ lost in value in just few months is not easily forgotten.

I guess it just takes more time for this thing to become more widespread and understood on its nature. The word "ETF" is now a bit of a meme that makes investors think it's going to pump %1000 or so.

This BAKKT thing is too new, people still don't understand what it is. In the next couple of months news and most importantly, youtube videos will start popping left and right talking about it and just like ETF, BAKKT will become a bullish signal. So I don't expect big movements until October for a "buy the rumor" scenario. Will it be a "sell the news" scenario (sell on release)? we'll see about that.

20,000 btc seems like a dream at this point.  With all this panic selling it  feels like we will never get back to those levels again.  The demand can't keep up with the supply since these miners are pumping out thousands of bitcoins everyday.  

Even if this is just hype it is exactly what we need right now, the bears are taking over bitcoin and if something like bakkt isn't done we might lose crypto completely

Most people are missing this point and I don't understand why. Putting Bitcoin into the mainstream for mass adoption is the worst thing we could do next to allowing the banks to write papers on thin air and call them Bitcoin. These rascals are just trying to get their hands into the asset so they can create an infinitive supply of it. The whole principle of Bitcoin depends on its limited supply!

Also, just because it is implemented in November doesn't necessarily mean that it will start going on a monstrous bull run at that time. If speculators really believed it, it would be moving already.

Im not sure what you are talking about. Excuse me but how the fuck is the government able to create an infinite supply out of it? just because they can issue whatever-government-backed scam as Bitcoin doesn't mean it's actual Bitcoin therefore as far as real Bitcoin is concerned the supply remains the same.

My point is, we CANNOT avoid the government doing whatever they want to do about it. So why not profit from their price manipulation? Long term physics remain: There are 21 million Bitcoins top, and fiat has unpayable debt clusterfuck sitting on top of it like a grey cloud. Long term it doesn't matter, short term it does because you can profit from it by buying and selling at the right times to increase your BTC count which is all that matters.

I think the break even price for miners is something like $5,000 per bitcoin so I can’t see the price dropping below that. They won’t allow it surely, all the big mining farms won’t allow it.

We'll, if we get near $5700 again, we would be looking at a quadruple bottom... is that even a valid technical analysis figure?

If that price range keeps being a solid support the theory may be correct. So far it has worked at least. I still don't see where the $5000-ish figure comes from since trying to guess what the cost of mining 1 BTC is at a global scale is extremely difficult. Incidentally $4900 is the next trend line in which it should bounce back otherwise the next is like $1500 ish... I just don't see it going that low. I mean who is insane enough to not be buying before hitting these prices?

$4900 matches the supposed mining cost theory so it could be a strong place to finally bottom.

On a scale of 1 to 10, how would you perceive those figures to be accurate? We have seen many market analysts from the people using different chart tools to the people using fundamental Bitcoin data, but none has given the community of a real clear picture of the situation in my opinion.

Price of mining one BTC is different from country to country, of course it depends on the price of electricity. For example by research from Elitefixtures-Bitcoin Mining Costs Throughout the World (https://www.elitefixtures.com/blog/post/2683/bitcoin-mining-costs-by-country/) it will cost you only 531$ to mine 1 BTC in Venezuela, but it will cost you over 26 000$ to do same thing in South Korea. Since most of big mining farms are in China, is a very important thing to say that cost of mining 1BTC there is only slightly higher then 3000$.

So by this data ( if they are accurate ), it would be profitable for miners even if price is drop under 4000$, what we hope will not happen. BAKKT could help bulls to make Christmas and New Year holidays happy again for all of us, like last year.

more precisely in September, because decisions about ETF will be received in September. if the ETF is received a trip to $ 100k will begin immediately and the bear market will end soon.

No, the ETF will keep getting delayed, I don't understand why people think it will pass. It will not pass this year and it will not past in 2019. I doubt it will ever pass, they can't regulate bitcoin enough ever, at any rate, due it's decentralized nature, so they will keep rejecting every ETF ever, people need to understand this.

Of course there's a chance that they decide to pass it but this would only be the case when they are ready themselves (when they feel confident with their stack). Meanwhile they kill keep using the dips they create by rejecting it by buying cheap coins and stacking them.

I just went to google and typed: " BAKKT " and I see this:

Bitcoin and the NYSE — unpacking Bakkt’s BIG plans (https://bravenewcoin.com/news/bitcoin-and-the-nyse-unpacking-bakkts-big-plans/)

Intercontinental Exchange, Microsoft, and Starbucks are launching a crypto venture (https://www.businessinsider.com/ice-microsoft-starbucks-bakkt-crypto-venture-2018-8)

The NYSE's Owner Wants to Bring Bitcoin to Your 401(k). Are Crypto Credit Cards Next? (http://fortune.com/longform/nyse-owner-bitcoin-exchange-startup/)

Pantera Capital CEO: People Should Be Focused on Bakkt (‘Huge News’) and Not on Bitcoin ETF Rejections (https://www.cryptoglobe.com/latest/2018/08/pantera-capital-ceo-people-should-be-focused-on-bakkt-huge-news-and-not-on-bitcoin-etf-rejections/)

Bitcoin could come to your retirement account, thanks to Starbucks' crypto venture: Investor Brian Kelly  (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/04/brian-kelly-bitcoin-could-come-to-your-401k-with-starbucks-bakkt.html)

It could be something interesting.

In Venezuela the electricity might be dirt cheap, but there is no way you can have larger miners settle there as they would literally drain that country in a matter of days. To add; the electricity infrastructure there is horrible. In several parts of the country there are massive outages where it could take hours and hours before you see it come back, and then it's literally hoping that it won't disappear again, which it obviously will.

The thing with mining is that the more blocks you scoop up, the lower your cost per minted Bitcoin is. I wouldn't be surprised if Bitmain's pools can profitably mine even at $2000 because as always, the smaller miners will leave first and Bitmain's share will then only increase. More network share = more blocks for you.

China is most likely the place to pay attention to since most mining rewards to there anyway due the massive hashrate monopoly in there so I guess the global average must be around $4000.

But like you said Bitmain may find a deeper gap, however they cannot exploit this indefinitely... it may be a risk taking advantage of that. As smaller miners go, if Bitmain tries to get this gap that smaller mines leave, their dominance may be too high and 51% may kick in which means price dumping so it could end up in losses.

They have to leverage that. I think they will not try anything stupid. So most likely $4000 to $5000 should be the solid miner cost bottom taking as valid the data we have.

Simple: Futures contracts. They've been doing it with gold for years. If an investor takes a position on the market with gold, there is no impact on the supply because the bank simply hands over a paper (not even that anymore) and has no obligation to back it physically. But it directly impacts the price. So traders from Deutsche bank, Citi, Credit Suisse, JP Morgans, etc. can get together and take massive short positions. Then, despite there being 21 million bitcoins that should be expanding in value, there is now a very heavy ceiling pushing them down.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-25/ex-deutsche-bank-traders-charged-in-expanding-spoofing-probe

Oh and fiat's debt clusterfuck certainly seems bad, but it's (attempting) to be balanced by the GDP. In the US a 21 trillion debt vs an 18.57 trillion GDP isn't as bad as it seems, although it most certainly is unsustainable in the long run. So yes, we should be buying the dips.

It's known that the government-wall street faction has been doing good business (as in, manipulating the hell out of assets) for years now with massive shorts. Gold, uranium, silver.. you name it.

https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/1600/0*P1FTOSm_AU297a0O.JPG

https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/1600/0*2YWDymtN8w_8NBid.JPG

https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/1600/0*hNicphujslwt9vpO.JPG

And of course, Bitcoin was no different:

https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/1600/0*avq93UqSR0mwgggj.JPG

However, if they are smart enough, they should know that this beast is only tameable in the short-medium term, and in the long term they'll fuck up badly if they haven't been hoarding as much BTC as possible. They can enjoy the manipulative techniques while they remain effective. It's up to people if they want to feed them their BTC or not.

We don't know how effective the futures are on this market. After the peak in 2013 there was a perfectly similar correction dragging the market down for quite a long period of time, especially for crypto standards, and that without futures. We need at least a year or two to see the real effect of these futures markets, and eventually I do believe that they will heavily weigh on Bitcoin's market with how institutions will gain an upper hand.

I think right now it's safe to say that those dealing with futures are just as afraid as most people here are. In other words, futures traders are afraid of Bitcoin manipulation, and Bitcoiners are afraid of futures traders manipulation.

About futures, there is this article here: https://blog.goodaudience.com/bitcoin-futures-and-the-ghost-of-gold-81418864c961

The idea is for them to dump the price so that retail traders are out, and then pump it so that they become more rich. But bitcoin moves 5x faster than gold, so we dont need to wait years to see some action. People gain and lose interest on it very quickly.

It's all too much of a coincidence to me. I mean the price had to crash eventually, but it turns out it basically started around exactly when CME launched the futures... it could have been exactly the same without the futures launch and $20k was the legit, organic peak for that run, or perhaps it was just getting started and they cut it... who knows? we can never know since there is only one timeline that we can perceive at least.

I have no doubts that the theory weights at least some value. I mean look at the charts, how come these other assets also peaked right when the CME launched their futures? looks like manipulation to me. They keep these assets low while they keep fiat-friendly stocks and bonds up. Our job is to amass as much BTC as possible during this bear market as noobs get kicked out by them, we must be ready because next time it starts rising it will dwarf previous highs and they will not be able to control it anymore. Real money always win in the long term. Bitcoin, gold, silver, all good to go, but biggest massive gains on BTC obviously.

In that case, people should be starting to hoard more coins in order to earn a huge amount of profit when the prices of cryptocurrency in the market started to pump up again soon.

No, most traders and potential investors are much better informed than you'd think. Maybe better informed than us, when the news has a potential to affect the price.
And this would mean that it's not them who is playing with the price. Somebody keeps dumping big (some voices said it may be Bitmain? I don't know; however, I think that whoever does that it's not only dumping, it's trade in both directions with huge amounts of BTC) and it may be this somebody that tried a bulltrap based on the ETF hype. Since this may have not worked out as expected, maybe "he" didn't try another move this fast (maybe couldn't dump enough Bitcoin in the short time to have funds for a proper new pump?), leaving BAKKT news not covered by the expected market movement.

Those charts are scary. Hahaha.

What then would it mean for the miners on the next halving coming on 2020? If "Wall Street cartel" keeps pushing the price down, that would threaten the miners incentives to keep mining. What would happen to Jihan Wu? Will he be pushed out and replaced by the Wall Street cartel's preferred chip maker, making "them" control Bitcoin?

Bitcoin does have very unique features that these other assets didn't have. It moves much much faster, and the halvening causes bull runs because of the nature of mining. I don't think that they can keep down that momentum very easily, and if they did, they'd lose millions of dollars in the process. Not that it would be a problem, they could just dump the costs on a bank to bankrupt it and have the taxpayers bail it out.

There were a lot of other people waiting anxiously to short Bitcoin when it went past 10k last year. It wasn't just institutional investors; a lot of retail investors thought it was a huge bubble at that time too. The general market sentiment was too high too quickly in Dec.

BAKKT still requires a license from US SEC. It's just that it is backed by the largest Wall Street institutions which is said to increase the likelihood of being granted.

Given that the upcoming autumn Chicago Exchange plans to launch options for bitcoin futures, the Bakkt project can provide a significant impetus in the development of the digital assets market and expanding the scope of their use. In this regard, the year 2019 can be regarded as the year of the merger of two segments of the financial world on a global scale - the fiat market and the sphere of crypto assets.

The road already started, I do not understand all of those people that are complaining about the price of bitcoin being too low and they do nothing about it, I do not know if we're going to reach 100000 in the next years or if it's going to take decades but I know one thing, it is going to happen and when that happens I want to have as much bitcoin as I can because if I get enough bitcoin by the point that happens it's likely that my life will change completely for the better.

Bakkt, is planned to launch on December 12 according to an official notice.

https://coincodex.com/article/2529/bakkt-planned-for-december-12-launch-still-waiting-for-regulatory-approval/

The road to 100,000 price do not depend on ETF but on the speculations by traders. If traders and holders think the price of bitcoins is worth it then it will enter a bull market before the end of 2018.

I think in the mid term BAKKT is gonna be huge for Bitcoin, and in the long term it is the first major step to the flood of Big Money coming into Bitcoin, which of course is huge.

In the short term I think Wall St firms will slowly move into Bitcoin, so I'm not sure if there will be an immediate boost in price in December. But over the course of a few months I think BAKKT will lead us into the next bull run (and maybe Fidelity and Goldman Sachs as well if they get their Bitcoin services up in early 2019).

I think the best thing about BAKKT is they actually believe in Bitcoin and want to spread its usage as both an investment class and as a payment system. By this time next year we could very well see major Wall St institutions have billions of dollars in Bitcoin and maybe even ETFs by then and possibly have pension funds and people's retirement accounts and so on have a few percent exposure to Bitcoin. I think in 2020 we will have the next Bitcoin peak easily over $100k and I do think BAKKT is the first step towards that.

Road to 100k+ never starts. Have you calculate how much the marketcap would be if it becomes 100k+ ? It would be both unlikely to pass that and also quite impossible to achieve with the number of usage bitcoin has and the number of people involved in it.

Dollar is involved every where in the world, basically the closest thing we have in the world to a global currency yet if you look at the american stock markets it is still around the marketcap of bitcoin if it hits 100k, you think the american stock markets combined could be same marketcap as bitcoin?

That is very max the limit we can ever hope to achieve and definitely not the higher. Of course this doesn't take away from the fact that bitcoin definitely will go up when bakkt really gets up and going and starts doing what they have been trying to get approved of.

Bitcoin doesn't need to be as used as the dollar when it comes to transaction volume for it to reach $100k. And remember that holding bitcoin is using it even if you don't transact with it.

Price is a function of supply and demand, that's all. As long as there's demand for what bitcoin offers, the price will go up. Bakkt allows for a ton of pockets to get involved within the market. Bakkt needs to buy bitcoin to settle the contracts, so this is not phantom derivative bullshit like CBOE futures.

A nice pic for context:

https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/HK9NfBF.png

Why do you think the market cap matters? When people consider the price of BTC, you think they're calculating the market cap and judging how reasonable it is?

I've been around since 2013 and I've never once thought about the market cap before.


It's still a derivative, so it's still possible for its market to diverge from spot. But yeah, unlike cash-settlement, it's a real avenue for investors to accumulate BTC and a real avenue for sellers to liquidate BTC. It could therefore potentially lead spot prices if the volume and liquidity grow large enough.

For me it's very simple: it's either bitcoin-settled or not. That's as good as it gets. And we want it to be regulated and audited. With fiat involved you want regulation and so on, it's how it goes.

The rest of exchanges specially those that deliver big leveraged position, you also really don't know if they have the btc and fiat deposits ready to not fail on the guy on the other end when he wants to withdraw. Bakkt is as serious as it gets thus far in this regard. I think the platform could lead price discovery in the field.

Check out this video by FUD TV (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMtJYS0PrtiUwlk6zjGDEMA) where he talks about how Bakkt exchange launch could affect Bitcoin price (https://coincodex.com/crypto/bitcoin/) and the crypto market as a whole:

https://coincodex.tv/videos/313/will-bakkt-trigger-a-bull-run-bitcoin-cash-clash-tron-bittorrent-and-more

road to 100k cause BAKKT is taking a slow start  ::)

Patience micG, patience !!!!!!

https://media1.giphy.com/media/7WwVYKDMt5khG/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a5be574a438575a7267397859

https://i.imgur.com/AMXCJnd.gif

yeah micG you F***tard...!!...... rome wasn't build in one day, even the fiat money SCAM wasn't there after one day.....

mmm yeah good keeps me thinking ;D

Liverpool FC hospitality when we hit $100,000 :)

already appointment @ANFIELD


LFC-MAN U ;D

better no LFC-hospital that weekend  :P

We hope this happened as many traders and investors are expecting another bull run.  I believe that bakkt is actually the next reason why bitcoin and altcoins market to get pump again.  Strongly believe that we would see the strong effect of bakkt by next year and events that will push bitcoin to $100,000 will come along.

Lightning Network, Bakkt, ETF (approved or not it's creating a buzz that starts other things like Bakkt) the Halving, Bitcoin is celebrating 10 years this year and did very good in this time. Very good ROI and no hack! Some people want to invest long time or at least 10 years and this gives confidence. BTC ATM's popping on every corner, exchanges also. Like people say it's just about patience and accumulating.

Bakkt's news release is just a hype to attract more investors and a road to 100,000 USD is quitely impossible to achieve for a short period of time but it is a good indicator that the bitcoin would start to recover but the BAKKT involvement seems has lesser impact since majority of their investors are still not convince about the potential of bitcoin.

https://mobile.twitter.com/coindesk/status/1064928505136336902

The launch of the ICE futures listing has been pushed back to January 24th. Guess the road is going to take a while longer to be built. I wonder if this is directly related to the current bonkersdom. What happens if it doesn't let up?

It may be related to the current price thing but most likely it's irrelevant and it's just internal bureaucracy making them push the date further. I wasn't counting on this. In any case my prediction would still be correct if we actually bottom within the next 10 years.

I would speculate that we will keep going lower before the road to $100k starts. $3k and $1.3k are the next resistance points. If it gets that insanely cheap it will be fun seeing all the idiots that don't buy fucktons in two years because most likely they are the same that didn't buy after all the previous crashes.

https://www.coindesk.com/launch-of-bakkt-bitcoin-futures-market-may-get-postponed-again

More possible postponement. I thought they could do some sort of self certification very near the launch so didn't need the CTFC to do anything. If custody is a sticking point that could remain very extremely sticky.

Self-certification was never an option, but there's been a commonly made assumption that CFTC approval is much easier to attain than SEC approval. There's some precedent for that: the CFTC already approved LedgerX as a registered derivatives clearing organization and swap execution facility, and I believe the approval came on the first try.

It also sounds like the delays are procedural (required commenting period and vacation for federal commissioners) and not signs of an incoming rejection. I read that a January 30th launch is still possible.

Derivatives are a 100% inevitability in any market worth bothering with. A market without them won't be taken seriously. If there was nothing in place by this stage of crypto's life it would a signal of something properly weird going on.

And since Bakkt is settling in BTC real Bitcoin certainly is on the line and changing hands.