Bitcoin Forum

What do you say, we show some support for a Bailout in the case of MTGox?
I think it will be the best thing for Bitcoin as we are in the transition stage from "innovative tech" to "regulated and trusted main stream innovative tech"...
In order to make this transition we need support from the community and the world.

Of course, on top of that... people (like me) who have funds @ MTGox would like to get access to those funds asap.

Let's get this thread a lot of positive support for a bailout for MTGox!

It is not the time to be cynical. It is not the time to say "told you". This is the time to help.

What do you say? help and show support for the Bitcoin ecosystem, Bitcoin holders and traders who spent money, time and effort supporting this business and also the public image? Everyone who traded on MTGox probably talked about Bitcoin a lot with friends, family and others helping the ecosystem and we are talking about A LOT OF PEOPLE.
If this works out, then the Bitcoin community will be stronger than ever and also, don't worry about the bail-outer/s, they will get their Bitcoin value increased, self recognition for knowing they did the right thing and also, a lot of commissions and future funds.

So please, for all the right reasons, show support for a bailout in this case!

I think this is a true test for Bitcoin and the community.

Not gunna happen.

are you fucking insane?

Gox will first have to launder Mexican drug cartel money before I even consider bailing them out. What is this, the kiddies league? Rob some customers, do some business with criminals, pay off some politicians, do something interesting. You don't get to being too big to fail by being nice.

What could actually motivate anyone with the resources to bail them out?

Other than turning over $400 million worth of cash,  only to cover existing debts,  with probably in return --- most likely nothing other than potential legal problems....

If you want to get into the exchange business,  the amount of cash it would require to bailout Gox,  would probably get you started within 12 months as a compelling alternative/replacement.

Stop smoking too much pot OP. >:(

I am talking about a "bailout" more like a take-over in the way described in the leaked document.

Bailouts, even in the form you're suggesting, are counter to what decentralized networks are all about.
Decentralized networks are superior because you don't have to bail out, or save any one entity.

If an arm or a leg dies and falls off, the organism grows new ones back, and continues thriving.
Bailouts are a mentality for the legacy centralized financial system where specific entities are needed so the whole system doesn't collapse.
Bitcoin was created for the explicit purpose of not needing such a process.

Bitcoin doesn't need to bail out MtGox.  Its just a limb that can fall off.  The organism will continue to thrive.
All this babble in the media about Bitcoins reputation being harmed for "years to come" is just that.  Babbling nonsense.

Highly recommend everyone watch this:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc1ZFTnSSVM

-B-

It appears you and all other people with money or coins at Gox are going to do a bail-in for Gox, like Cyprus did to account holders there.

MtGox is the problem with Bitcoin.  MtGox is at least the most inept group of people running an exchange, and likely the most corrupt.

If Gox was hacked and lost coins it because Gox's code sucked.  Personally, I don't believe a single thing Gox says, prints, posts, or claims, if you couldn't already tell.

I do feel real sorry for all the people who were so stupid as to keep on putting money into Gox thinking they were getting a good price on the coins.  Ehh no I don't it's Mt Gox.  Mt Gox is the Mos Eisley of Bitcoin, at least that's what Obi Wan says.


For the non Star Wars fan: "Mos Eisley spaceport. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." - Obi Wan

I completely and wholeheartedly support a Gox Bailout and believe it's the most ethical course of action..... as long as it's coming from Mark Karpeles' own stash :) :) Op, revise title to include the latter part and perhaps we can get a petition started.

Nope It's not like the Bitcoins can print themselves  ;D

Sorry if you lost you bitcoins but I feel it would be better to let mtgox fail. That way, we can show the world that in the Bitcoin wild west, there is no "too big to fail". When we come back out of this mess, people will think, "Hey, I think this Bitcoin thing is something serious, maybe I should learn about it." The next time a big exchange would get in trouble, it would have lesser impact on the price since people know Bitcoin don't care. Look at the time when China banned bitcoins. There was a huge sell off. However, when Russia followed by completely banning bitcoins, there was hardly a dump. Let's move on and show Bitcoin is unstoppable.

The strangest part was that China was the one who was eating all the Bitcoins last night
Max Keiser posted a link
China the vacuum cleaner lol
http://fiatleak.com/

China definitely has demand for bitcoins but fiatleak isn't that accurate. It tracks filled orders at exchanges. Because chinese exchanges have more trading volume due to the low to zero trading fees, it would look as if there is a lot of chinese buying bitcoins when in fact the bitcoins in those exchanges just go back and forth from seller to buyer.

And yet, and yet.....

Mark Kapeles of mtgox bailed out another exchange back in 2011, using 17,000 BTC of his own to make sure the customers of that exchange didn't lose money - and I'm sure they were glad.

Why did he do it? Because it's not in the long term interests of the community to allow large numbers of people to lose money. It wasn't then and it isn't now.

Decentralized networks don't mean "you don't have to bail out or save any one entity" - it just means that there is no govt to organize the bailout and the community does it instead.

Think very hard before you advocate the "selfish at all costs" model which is quite different from a decentralized model.

If these types of incidents start to happen very frequently, one of two things will happen a) bitcoin will die as people will shudder at a non-regulatory environment that practically says to crooks, come and steal there is no comeback and no compensation for the victims or b) regulation will happen because the victims become so numerous, they eventually make up the majority of the community.

I think a bailout is a good idea. Perhaps Mtgox can issue bailout bonds that we can buy for 1BTC each and which pay a % of the profits. That way he raises capital to pay the victims, they clean up mtgox - put in new management, and when it's running properly again, those of us who have participated in the bailout get a small return for our altruism.

If you wanna bail out a totally incompetent financial business or even worse (possible) scammers, in that case you as bad as any central bank lol.

Companies like this deserve to disappear from the market.

Not like we need Gox around for anything, at least the central banks have an excuse when they bail out a failed bank, like they are needed for the economy, they say,  where we need GOX around for ? I cant think of anything.

The community will be better without Gox. We don't need companies that take months just to allow you to deposit/withdraw money, even under good conditions.

To top it all off, Mt. GOX died the way it lived: shutting down suddenly without explanation, without even apologizing to people who lost everything.

If someone stole all the bitcoins, let the community find the person and get them back. Otherwise if you are itching to send out bitcoins to anyone try: 1JWyjsTWLmsBycgNZKcfigffgTAg7S2Aes

completely agree with this.

Just wish the tree wasn't looking quite so bare at the moment with all the limbs that keep falling off.....each one does makes us stronger though....slowly....



and seriously...


I only have so much sympathy for people who left significant money on an exchange called "Magic the Gathering Online Exchange"

Here's a top tip for those using BTC-e, Bter (both of which I love) and other exchanges - none of them are reputable financial institutions like Wells Fargo, Chase (don't laugh - you get what I mean). They're small operations, based in eastern block countries, with difficult to contact organisers. Don't risk your money!! Store your coins offline!!

Best advice ever!!  Screw Gox!!! They are responsible for almost EVERY crash Bitcoin has experienced,bail em out ??? Really ???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6iAPvcWmQI

Yeah I really don't think we should follow the example of the US banks  ;)

Sounds like OP wants to be bailed out.

Bailout the wrong term im not putting anymore money in, why not a customer take over? remove CEO & team.  Limit withdraws.  Get it up & running.

Mt Gox needs to go down, they were poorly run from the beginning and they shouldn't be in business.  If they are bailed out people will still have lost faith in them.

On top of that, I don't think anyone in their right mind would bail them out - considering that most people will leave and stop using Mt Gox once they have been bailed out.

Mt Gox is bad for bitcoin, and they must fail - so much of the price fluctuations has occurred due to them.

This!!!!!!  Thank you!!!!!!  ;)

I normally do like me some good ol' troling in the morning,

...

but fuck you!

Edit: "This is the time to help". Nuh-uh. This is the time to kick ass and to chew bubblegum, and we all are very much out of bubblegum at this point.

I want my bailout for bitfunder and ukyo.loan first. If they get bailed out, and I get my money back, I'd gladly donate 10 btc to the gox bailout.

No.

This is exactly what is great about bitcoin. You risked your assets on an exchange known to be grossly incompetent - most likely because of the higher returns this risky investment promised. Your bet failed.

Nobody is going to save you from yourself. Why should the community socialize your losses whilst you keep your profits? If you want that you should be working/investing in fiat banking.

No offense.

customer takeover, cant expect people who didnt have money in gox to be motivated to give much of a shit

all the evidence should be kept for a claim on any future crytpo releases that may be regulated

NEWS FEED ON MtGox MELTDOWN at

http://[Suspicious link removed]/

Didn't support the last bailout, won't support this one. People need to learn that it matters where you store your money, both fiat and crypto.

Bailouts only do one thing: reward greed and/or incompetence.  In this case, it would be both.

What should happen is for someone to acquire the assets of Mt Gox, attempt to make something of them and take what is accomplished and distribute it to those that lost.  It will be "penny's on the dollar" but it will show that the network does what it can.

If you go the bailout route, you'll lose something along the way.  It isn't a trade off you should even consider.

For anyone that has some funds on Gox its just a no brainer.

Nobel laureate Prof. Nash had something to say about optimal personal gain going hand in hand with benefiting everyone in the group.

With a new owner the current customers have much better chance of recovering at least some of their moneyz.

I will never support a bailout for mtgox, they have done enough damage.
They need to get out of the bitcoin community once and for all!

How much are you donating to this bailout?

All the bitcoin and fiat you had at mtgox? Sounds like a Cyprus bail-in!

That is about the most ridiculous idea I have ever heard.  Why bail out Mark when Mark may well be the thief?

It would make more sense to set up a reward fund -- to be given to whomever, anonymously or otherwise, provides information that leads to an arrest in the case.  That might be FAR more productive.  It might get large enough to override someone's fears about having signed a non-disclosure agreement....

TAKEOVER or buyout is something completely different than BAILOUT.

Bailout's not gonna happen, but takeover is very much possible.

regulate the exchanges, not the coin.

If you want to run an exchange you need conform to a financial licence. If your country doesn't have this requirement and you run an exchange, hopefully due to the mt gox incident people won't use your exchange. Instead they will flock to regulated exchanges. So hopefully people only use "certified"/regulated exchanges and exchanges advertise this fact. Thus you can trust them somewhat.

It kinds subverts the anonymous nature of btc, but you can tumble your coins once they leave the exchange anyway. So at least you have some protection from dodgy people on the exchange. As they can come after the offender as they know who he is (so long as ID documents are not good fakes).

So you prove who you are to the exchange, but once it leaves the exchange.. you get your anonymity back.

I think the OP is just having a bit of fun with us.  No one in their right mind would ever bail out a bitcoin exchange.  No one.

Ya, like the 2008 bailouts (robbery)...

Let the free market decide... clearing out the deadwood.  The ecosystem is far better without Gox.

Personaly, I don't even see a takeover/buyout to be a viable option.

What do you get for your money? A client base that hates your guts basicaly. Most of them will pull out ASAP.

Sure they may sell off some of their assets. The value of their software is highly questionable... And the name is just synoymous with incompetence.

I think Karpeles is getting the hate.

I don't think many would swap that hate onto a new owner - they'd be so relieved!

No, I would not put the hate onto the new owner. But I would hold him liable for the outstanding debt.

If he just bought my account and would not be liable for my losses, why should I use his service? That mail would be forwarded to my spam folder.

And at this point I ask myself: Who in their right mind would invest $300 million in Mt.Gox? The biggest investment in Bitcoin history goes to the most poorly implemented/managed exchange service? And I'm saying that to be nice.

Ohhhhh, they will not have all that money right away? I might get my money/Bitcoins back if I stick with them for the next few years? Weeeeeeeee, I'm so excited and relieved...


This whole "to big to fail" nonsense makes me sick. Saving MtGox is like putting a band aid on an infected limb. If we don't cut it off, the infection will spread and then Bitcoin WILL die.

It's been pointed out in the leaked document that not saving Mt.Gox will set us back by 5-10 years. Let me put this in perspective:
5 years ago : the genesis block
10 years ago : Satoshi is fooling around with his first "Hello World!" SHA256 program...

To the OP, I think you may be confusing Mt. GOXXX with Silk Road, because clearly you're fuckin' high.

It seems a bailout will happen anyway. And probably the big players/investors once they see this initiative will be motivated to get behind this also.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=488483.0

And probably a public run exchange like the one Gox will be transformed into, will inspire much more trust than any other exchange. So it will gather the most users.

I'd still like to see the magic the gathering exchange come back...

I don't believe all is lost and I believe the bad news is exaggerated.  All of my IOUs are under MtGox management, so I am biased with optimism.  I liked the comfort of my OTP and security.  All in all, I have been with MtGox since January of 2013 and while I have bouts of regret, MtGox has been the foundation for exchanges.  They took the initial risk and theretofore it had paid off.  I future is uncertain but I still have high hopes for the return of MtGox and have faith in Mr. Karpeles to work out the problems whichever they may be.  I speculated two months ago that the probability and lack of disclosure with current issues were due to US pressures that proved to be existent in all of 2013 for MtGox.  I transferred most of my funds to MtGox through Dwolla before that branch of deposit was closed.  I never had any account security problems and any support tickets I did put in were answered timely.  I am apostile verified and have the requisite limits associated with my account.  I don't have the sense of dread that most others are feeling despite much of my net worth being tied up there.  My initial investments in bitcoin were meant to be long term and in support of BTC.  I don't see lack of access to those funds as a roadblock to my longterm plans as I am not a daytrader.  I will give the blind faith that Mr. Karpeles seems to be asking of in the meantime and feel it isn't misplaced.  I see far more greed on the forums and an immediate debasement for the fellow forumer.  Those of you looking for a get rich quick scheme should immediately withdrawal all your money from BTC because your intentions are all misplaced.  I knew when I first bought my first BTC on this forum that it was a risk and as such still is.  This is an unregulated industry and as such as some road bumps that go along with it.  Many of you complain you aren't making 10% a day or get caught up in your own greed to try to plainly, covertly or otherwise manipulate others into your pocket.  As I see it, you are the poison of this technology as you hope and wish others to lose money.  Go Mr. Karpeles on your way, I'm sure your active on the forums and there's still a portion of us that believe in your good will and intentions.  In the crash of April you were the only one with the confidence to say that every one would "Get what their looking for" and I believe you will still deliver in these times once again of darkness.  It's hard to put yourself in someone else's shoes and when I place myself in Mr. Karpeles' its difficult to grasp the amount of stress and ill will that has been conveyed over the past year.  Best wishes to all and have some faith in people as I will as I ride this ship all the way to the bottom.  I will be the first to eat my words, and my investment, if it goes to the worse but as for now I consider this business as usual.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=486531.0

roger ver believes mtgox was insolvent for several years

A bailout appears unlikely, although I really like your point about decentralized networks:

"Decentralized networks don't mean "you don't have to bail out or save any one entity" - it just means that there is no govt to organize the bailout and the community does it instead.

Think very hard before you advocate the "selfish at all costs" model which is quite different from a decentralized model."

Regarding those who want Gox to die: If it is resurrected in soe form, I'm pretty sure Karpeles will not come with the house. It would effectively be a brand name under different more competent management. 

customer ownership?
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1yyrvf/open_letter_to_mark_karpeles_voluntary/

You are talking about MtGox needs to die, but what if tomorrow same situation happens to bitstamp? btc-e？

You guys don't have any bitcoins at exchange? You guys never trade online?

If bitstamp begins to fool their customers for months as gox did, then you would have plenty of time to withdraw your coins.
If you wouldn't, you shouldn't be rewarded. To reward moral hazard behavior is bad for bitcoin.

A bailout should not cost us. If the foundation was to act in the interest of bitcoin, the core devs could develop an alternative client to fork the mtgox addresses and all the miners could decide if the bitcoins stuck there should be accessible. What happens if 51% agrees? That is in case the bitcoins are stuck and not stolen.

Also Mark should be cast into oblivion and never have access to the bitcoins again.

Sure, i've got coins all over the interwebs (Kraken, BTC-E, Cryptsy, ...). But not enough to cry myself to sleep if I lose them all. Never more than 1/3, much less if possible.

Any business that is so irresponsible should be shut down and liquidated. And the owners/operators never trusted again.

I never did put any on Mt.Gox. I was late in the game and by then there were a lot more reliable/faster/cheaper exchanges around. I mean in October 2013 i got my EUR withdrawal from Kraken faster (5 hours) than a lot of people got their BTC from Mt.Gox.

I just couldn't understand why people put up with them. One week for a money transfer is NOT fast. Maybe in the 80s... And if constant two-three month delays are not a big enough warning sign for you to see that the company might be in trouble. And that it might not be a good idea to keep more than you can afford to lose over there. Than, I'm very sorry, but I can't help you.

The solution to all these problems is simply to create decentralized trust-less exchanges.  Those are in the works.  It's only a matter of time.

2 years from now there will be no central exchanges.   There will be no need to trust any third party.

And the price of Bitcoin will be multiples of its last high.

just join us on this, we already doing pretty good, growing following

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=489949.0

this.

Yeah, we have a better solution than a bailout.

First I did not lost more than I can afford there, but it is still significant money , around $50000.
Anyone lost that amount of money won't feel good, right?

Second, although the fiat withdraw has been very slow for months, that can't indicate it is insolvent. The large volumn of withdraw requests sounds reasonable and the bitcoin withdraw is always instant.

Actually I haven't used btc-e or bitstamp, who knows what is the situation there? I also saw a lot of people blaming them. So it is very difficult for a normal user to identify which are good exchanges which are risky.

Decentralized exchanges, how do people deposit money? If I made an agreement with some guy to buy bitcoin from him, how can I pay? Do I need to carry my cash and meet him somewhere in the city? Sounds ridiculous if that was the case.

You are, without a doubt, one of the biggest idiots I've ever seen on this forum - and that's saying something, because I've been here since 2011.

Things that fail should stay DEAD. Any money given to this FAILED BUSINESS will be an IDIOT TAX that will result in NOTHING POSITIVE.

I can only imagine how you are so enured with the current legacy financial system that you'd emulate one of their tricks. Bailouts are for cowards, and they punish the very people they purport to save.

Please throw your computer out of a window.

Thanks.

Let me thin... No!   8)

Not a bailout. Have you read this ? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=489949 (Voluntary Reorganization Best Option for Us All)
Gox staying dead would have repercussions throughout the entire community. Most people say :"see ? I told you bitcoin would fail" ..and so on.
 
While a GOX rebirth will encourage the newbies that a private bank can fail, but a public run exchange (like bitcoin itself) is better, and it cannot fail.

It will be a great example to the world. All the news/media proclaiming the death of bitcoin because of GOX, will look like idiots.

Gox's death might actually start something new entirely a decentralized exchange system based on personal trust and escrows with the central exchange system just being the intermediary between selected participants who do not know each other but wish to trade and exchange.
Meaning that Gox might signal the start of something new and better either way were still in fear right now so it will take time to prove that this is not the end of bitcoin but the Genesis, and get the media to change its tune.

Good idea.
Anyway when Marks fixes his accidentally modded wallets, the new re-launched Gox won't need bailing out.

You haven't been involved with Bitcoin very long, have you.

Bitcoin is declared "dead" almost once every year. Gox is no different, and resurrecting its business won't help anything. You want to help people? Then start a donation fund to restore balances that were stolen to the Gox victims. Gox doesn't deserve to exist, because the CEO has zero ability to run a business.

I can't even believe I have to point this out to you. They tried to reorganize and get new investors - and those investors GOT THE FEDS INVOLVED. That alone should tell you something.

The people who say "Bitcoin is dead" will look like idiots over time - and we don't need some half-baked plan to "save" Gox to achieve that.

Obviously any resurrected exchange won't have anything to do with mark. Of course ! As I pointed out several time, this exchange will be different and could make an example by being the first truly transparent exchange, led by 1 million owners.
 Very capable people would be elected and so on...

Keiser Report: New Crypto Phenomenon Ethereum (E569)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdAnyC45ZbU#t=14

The video says all you need to know about why a Bailout won't work on gox :)

Bailing out is almost the same as literally sabotaging the Bitcoin economy. We don't need more bigger bubbles and just poke when people have filled their abysmal pockets.

Maybe their 1 million customers? Who are all ready and waiting to start trading again and paying maybe $5 to $20 per trade?
So what's that $20,000,000 in the first week?

Hmmmm... wonder why anyone would want to buy up Gox!

NO.

For so many reasons, NO.  I am sorry to those who lost their money.

For many reasons, I vote yes to a big blow to bitcoin, shaking peoples confidence in current and future bitcoin platforms (who can also go the way of mt gox) . And I also vote yes to an event causing cAPSLOCK user major loss of his money/bitcoins.
 Why ? because I said so (and for many other reasons). But I'm sorry if that happens. Truly sorry.

Where do I send the money?
Maybe you can post a wallet address and we'll send money to it, and you can pass it on to Mark. LOL!!!!