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I am progressing with case against mt.gox poland for fraud (art. 286  #2, #3, #4) and misleading (art. 286 #1). This is not regarding bitcoins but the currency deposits to WBK. I will update this thread accordingly to info received from the case lead.

I'm with you.

I deposited at their Polish Bank! I'm in!

It's kind of the same in the US, except they don't help you even if you sue.

If you sue and win, the government just gives them money.

If you spend all your money and go bankrupt as a bank, the government punishes you by giving you more money.

The US Gov is like a typical GoXXX customer basically.

I don't think you will come so far as they will still blame on technical issues for now and claiming that they are working on it. This is a dejavu situation comparing to the Swedish bitcoin exchange company Kapiton, as far they claim that the funds is safe no one can be arrested. If we have any hopes that MtGox will solve this I think we should let them try instead threat with law suites that will just delay or stop them trying to solve the issues . Of course if you got fiat funds it should not keep you from get then out asap. The end of the saga with Kapiton is that I eventually received my funds in the end.

sorry but I didn't understand what you mean. Is this action only for people who wired PLN to Gox' account at WBK Bank Zachodni?
If a user had Euros on his account resulting from BTC trading instead of deposit, aren't those funds supposed to be still located on the Polish bank?

+1 here.

Okay, sure. But how does someone prove fraud or misleading ,since the bank is "just holding" these customer accounts for gox ?

I transferred 35000€ to the Bank, so i am whit you.

In case of "freshly deposited" money, it is easy to argue they are no longer providing the promised service (since MtGox stopped trading) so the payment needs to be reversed.

Oh no! So sorry to hear that. My condolences! I can't help but think if this was related to money lost there if he was a big bitcoin supporter? This would be even sadder!
I just wanted to check on this thread and just wrote you a PM, but take your time to cope with that. That's priority! Again, sorry to hear that!

What would be the court fees?

Good question. There must be some Gox account in there.

+1,  i also wired money to mt gox poland

What would be the court fees....?

And who exactly are we suing ? Why the bank?

hey st4nl3y
sry to hear this bads from you mate at first - take you time to cover.... really bad day!

the 2. is - can you point out if it belongs also to EUR or only to PLN?
recently deposited is clear enough for all of you guys who read this.

and you have to think about the other users who have fresh confirmed withdrawals - maybe they can be affected?
whats your thoughts?

Hello, thanks for starting this, im with you.

Will you give us information when we should send you documentation of the wire transfer from our bank?
I Hope a scan of this document is good enough?

Thanks again.

on this way you will get back max. 5000 PLN as you can read earlier in this posts. So it is a max around 1200€
against 35000€

not a good idea i think!

Ive sent a combined total of 1045 eur. How are we proceeding?

I urge everyone participating to understand a peculiar risk there. First, as Peacefuls pointed out, if you sue Gox Poland for fraud they can probably go straight into court administration mode. Which means a long and untender road until which time the subsidiary will already be tied up into the insolvency storm of Gox Japan. Then, the best case is you will get the measly 5000 PLN. Which, you supposedly should receive anyway given the liable equity capital.
Second, assuming they are in charge of both the deposit account and the EUR account, this would inhibit transactions from there as well. Since people still receive payments from there (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=489652.0), it shows money is left. Therefore I propose to not sue them for fraud and halting operations, but to apply pressure and negotiate to keep fulfilling their normal business obligations until funds are depleted or official bankruptcy repercussions govern the course of things anyhow.
OP, your thoughts on this? (My sincere condolences, it's bitter times but you will come through eventually).

So 5000pln is 1631$ is the maximum? What's the reason for this maximum? How long would it take to get it?

I'm with you. Thanks!

Very well said! Your thoughts OP?

If I'm not mistaken that would mean only 5k PLN can be recovered in total, not per person, and the rest would have to be recovered from Mt.Gox based in Japan (they're the sole shareholder of Mt.Gox Poland).

What if Mark Karpeles files for bankruptcy, how will this affect Mt. Gox Poland and the chances of getting back money from them?
See: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1z4olv/rogerver_states_on_irc_that_mt_gox_filing_for/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1z4olv/rogerver_states_on_irc_that_mt_gox_filing_for/)

I know you are frustrated as well as we all are, but I really think your actions (if succesful) are going to cause more harm than good, seeing as the best you can hope for is the 5000PLN which you will eventually get anyway if things go as south as they seem to be heading. I personally urge you to reconsider your lawsuit (and yes I have a pending SEPA withdrawal from Gox so I am acting also a bit selfishly here).

thats all interesting points...
really confused for everyone of us what the best to do yet.
5000PLN recoverd is not as much - the equivalent differenz per claim from tokyo means we sue first Poland and then Tokyo.
so if i weigh the profit of this ( really appreciated initiative for your community ) and the affects of negativ - especially for people with pending withdrawals where seems to be processed during em ty gox site is down show´s that they where advised not to communicat but ( thats selfishly outputed ) hopefully do their job processing withdrawals getting out before emtygox goes off...

@ OP: So, who are you planning on suing exactly?

Mt.Gox Poland, Mt.Gox Japan, their Polish Bank, Mr. Bartlomiej Szabat?

What about people with BTC, USD, EUR balances in their accounts?

I'd advise to go for point 2 at least until the time when it's made officially clear whether we can even hope for the fiat withdrawals that were initiated before Gox went bust, to be processed. If it turns out those withdrawals are lost as well (or subject to bankrupcy protection) and there's no point to keep the WBK account alive, then continue with point 1.

Hope this makes sense.

I'm not sure. Of course I want those fuckers to face justice, but I've lost hope and have no faith in the judicial system. Maybe it's for the better if I forget about this and move on with my life. It doesn't seem likely that there's anything to gain by suing either Mark Karpeles or Bartlomiej Szabat. Or am I wrong?

BTW: Isn't the Polish bank (that Gox used) also complicit in all of this? They accepted deposits right until the moment when Gox went dark. (I know that because I was among those who deposited at that time.) I talked to them a couple of days ago. Here's what they replied to the first mail I sent them:


(Notice how he mentioned deception even though the only thing I'd told him at that point was to recall the last of my fiat transactions. I hadn't given him any reason for my wish to recall the money. Nor had I mentioned bitcoins or MtGox. (The very first thing I did was to instruct my own bank to do a recall, of course.))

Here's the second (and last) reply:



I did, of course, inform the so called law enforcement in my country (in an extensive e-mail), but they haven't answered. They're probably too busy drinking coffee and eating donuts.

Hi! I have also deposited PLN to BZ WBK (700zł to be exact) two days before site went down. I had a substancial number of BTC at mtgox account too. I have lost everything. If there is a way to make them bastards pay just tell me what to do.

Karpeles is the mastermind behind all this tho..

option 2. Unless you are into retaliation from this guy and additional bad press. Imagine how words will spread amongst the banking scene. No bank will ever want to get involved in Bitcoin proponents again (less so then today), giving it the stigmata of a fraudsters' business. However, nowadays it's still necessary to have those links into fiat world to endorse Bitcoin with real value.

Thank you for your investigations, it shed a light on the most fundamental things. Something in my guts is telling me that a good stance with this 'prokurent' and WKB Bank can still pay off in future.

PS: if it's still technically possible despite their holding company being under bankruptcy protection, maybe sueing them not for fraud but for enforcing contracts based on private law (reversal of payments and processing payments due) is another way.

I didnt deposit money to the Polish bank but I did withdraw from Gox mid-January so I hope this polish bank wil still send out SEPA payments!
There is absolutely no info about that anywhere.

Hi st4nl3y,

What is your source of information on the WBK account?  Your posting seems to suggest that there is no money in the account and that money sent to the MtGox Poland account at WBK was either sent to an account of the Japanese Mt.Gox mother company, or used immediately to pay waiting withdrawals (you said the same thing in a PM which I did not respond to yet - bcs the issue is relevant for everyone I am asking the question in a public post).

Pascal

Hy! I'm with you. I have on 2014.02.24. 500 euro deposited. And now its the site down and bankruptcy...
When u need my details send me a PM.
Thanks!

Hi @all

so i did higher deposit at the 24.02.14 - advised my bank to cancel it but they made a mistake and it gone through  :-[
not that i have a pending withdraw with 45500€ ....

i work on it to recover it from my bank - hope i get it but it doesnt look as good as i want....

today they informed me about the answer from WBK Poland.

following:
Please be informed that your inquiry is under investigation.
We can confirm that the payment was executed and your account has bin credited.

at the moment beneficiary is not available and we are not able to return the funds.

unfortunately according to polish law we cannot give you more detailed information....

so i think WBK works but from the bankruptcy statement on they are also involved and under investigation of the court.

bankruptcy protection protects MtGox for any sue.

So - sadly!!! - i think we can do nothing....

also i tried to phone this callcenter - so way, always busy...

thats just what i think - any further ideas helping out is highly appreciated.

My bank (Erste bank Hungary) has refused the cancel because the money is soon arrived to the others balance.

Are you sure about that? Nothing?

Have you tried asking people on forum.bitcoin.pl?
https://forum.bitcoin.pl/mtgox-dyskusja-ogolna-t8001-1520.html

Thanks.
Not at this point, no. (That's what I thought.) But maybe sometime in the future? Or have I misunderstood this?

I am in for suing the polish bank, my last EUR deposit never got credited to my MtGox account I want that money back.

Anywhere to sign up on this action?

You have to contact your bank because a bank wire cannot be lost. Your bank will trace it and they will tell you where it is.Simple.
If the money are already in Mt Gox bank account and then you can say bye bye to your funds.

Also, why would you sue a bank and not sue Mt Gox?  :)

Hi, I have deposited 400 euro last year to MT. GOX Poland. They arrived to my account on MtGox, then I have bought BTC. It is not required 5000 PLN.

OK so what exactly are you hoping to gain from this lawsuit, again?

Let's get the other 9 soon.

Mt.gox poland has any reputation and credit rating yet?

You won't be able to recover the WBK deposits seeing as Goxs is under bankrupcy protection.

These are criminal code determinations (not civil). In matter of criminal cases you (if you are a prosecutor) press charges. Sometimes suing is possible  (if the judge allows; check ''postepowanie adhezyjne'').

Did you speak to a prosecutor? If yes, which city is the prosecutir located?

Thank you for the update! Sorry to hear about the unnecessary trip, but I think everyone greatly appreciates your thoroughness!!! Keep up the good work!

Where the fuck you think you are, in America?  Cause this sounds like America to me! ;-)

Keep up the good work.

Absolutely, +1 !

Mr. st4nl3y you and your law student friend talk bullshit! I live in Poland did a lot of business here and law doesn't work this way you describe. First of all you should fill Mt.Gox sp.z o.o. bancrupcy and take it to the court. All Mt.Gox's assets in Poland will be frozen and than split among the victims. Then you can sue the representative and Mark Karpeles for cheating and get some money from their personal wealth..

Sp. z o. o. means LLC. In fact sp. z o.o. is a mix of LLC and LTD.

If you really want to get your BTC and money back do what I did! Read my story how I got back my btc and funds form Mark Karpeles. You have to act like a debt collectors not a lawyers.

I also sent money put me in. what shall I do?

MtGox.com makes it possible to check your account balances in BTC, USD and EUR now.
The amounts fit with the content of the dabase dump a while ago.

If you sent money (via SEPA) to the Polish entity MtGox Poland, and that money is not in your MtGox.com account, there is a possibility it is still on the account of the Polish entity MtGox Poland.

Yes, it didn't appear on mine!

Is it still possible to join the class action lawsuit against mtgox poland?

I'm, also want to join the action lawsuit against mtgox poland. I'm await my money since i withdraw it at the end of january!

HELLO st4nl3y is it possible to join???
i have money stuck in poland

Any news?

I am really looking for someone to help me make claim against the bank in poland,
but we need to get togather. I did not get reply from st4nl3y,
lets get our money somehow

I really wish people stopped believing that the WBK Poland bank is in ANY way complicit in what happened to Gox and their money.

Why not?? they knew what was going in gox because one of there accounts was there.
if you give me money that i know would get lost i keep it and say oops i lost it.

Please tell me you're not for real...

Any news?

Hello,

Are there any updates regarding this lawsuit?
I have wired about $3K to this polish bank between the years 2013-2014.
Most of the money went down with gox.
Money was transferred to gox polish account via Dresdner bank in Germany,

Hoping to hear some news soon

update:

mt.gox poland did not respond to official prosecution asset recovery order!

Thanks for update,
Are there any immediate plans?

Ha. So what does this mean? They simply don't answer and are fine? That's definitely an interesting technique!
Still, your work is very much appreciated! Any following steps?

No, this was the first step that had to be done. now comes the next.

Okay. I hope you keep us posted on any further development.

I have multiple accounts with those polish debit cards...no name required...no tracking...YOU REALLY THINK that Poland is going to give a shit about Mtgox "scamming"? Heck you'd have better luck going after their Japan banks with lawyers and plaintiffs who speak no Japanese.

I just stopped into this forum to see if you people have done anything, but wow, the lack of awareness you are displaying is phenomenal.

Karpeles sits happy because he is protected.  He is involved with the Silk Road bag stealers.  His smirk means he won and you lost.  Silk Road was a Pulp Fiction style bag of wallets.  Can you people stay on target?  Poland law ain't worth two shits on this level.  Sorry, I love Polish folk and food don't get me wrong.

Lawyers are in no way prepared for this new theft paradigm.  If I were missing coin from Gox, I would bring cameras to bear on Mark K. 24/7 until that dude squeals.  Watch who comes to his rescue.  Local authorities and US/UK coinstealing authorities.

Please read the topic. 

This is about the Polish legal entity that owns the bank account that people used for SEPA payments to MtGox.  If you didn't use SEPA, this topic is not relevant to you.

If you do that you'd get bounced by his bodyguard, and I don't think these methods are very productive. It's either he gives back the coins, either he goes to jail or either he gets shot.

Any news?

ok.


i will have you know poland enforces most strict laws when it comes to limited companies like mt.gox

I am not being informed about progress, still waiting.

I was curious if anyone's lawyer was able to find out if there are actual funds remaining in MtGox Polish Bank account and by what figure?

If all the money has been removed from MtGox Polish bank account either by Mark Karpeles or the Japanese Administrator then even if you win in Poland it would likely mean you would never see any money unless MtGox is sold to an investor group.

Has anyone's lawyer been able to see any account detail information?

Many thanks 

hey,

i provided very extensive evidence to polish prosecution office, it's in their hands but i haven't heard from the prosecutor for a while so either he is waiting for something or can't do anything. i think there shouldn't be any money left in WBK bank by now, unless the account was seized and blocked by prosecutor or somebody else

I just got news from another individual that MtGox bank account at WBK Bank Zachodni was closed on 05/05/2014 and had the amount of 15 Euros at the time of it's closing.

I am trying to find out if the money was moved to another account in Poland by the bank itself because of litigation or if the funds were wired abroad.

I'll let you know when I hear an update. If the money was wired abroad and you win in Poland you will get no money from this account.

Speak more soon.

very interesting, sent you a PM. i am also writing to the prosecution office now..

Does anyone here have MtGox USD account number from Poland? I would like to see if their Zloty and USD accounts were closed as well.

This is what I have so far:

Account Name: MTGOX POLAND INC. SP. Z O.O.
Bank Name: BANK ZACHODNI WBK S.A.
SWIFT/BIC: WBKPPLPP
Adress: PLAC POWSTAŃCÓW WARSZAWY 2, 00-030 WARSZAWA, POLAND


PL59109023980000000117595694   (EURO Account Number)

PL87109023980000000117595675   (ZLOTY Account Number)