Bitcoin Forum

https://twitter.com/cobrabitcoin/status/1033324135504654336


I praise Cobra for fighting a struggle worth fighting. This is the same as Bitcoin's own NO2X movement that was successful in showing the miners that they should serve the network instead of controlling it.

I believe our community should show support for the Bitcoin Cash community in their struggle. Jihan Wu should support the community or serve it to reach a common goal, while Roger Ver, and Craig Wright should be thrown out.

Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash can co-exist in peace. #UANF

Recent nChain announcements (in this regard):

- https://www.ccn.com/satoshis-vision-craig-wright-to-launch-bch-node-to-restore-original-bitcoin-protocol/

This looks both potentially very dangerous and totally unnecessary to me, unless I'm missing how they might look to lock it down (which I'm probably not).

These opcodes: OP_MUL, OP_LSHIFT, OP_RSHIFT, and OP_INVERT + 128MB blocks (for what? mega DDoS?)

- https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Common_Vulnerabilities_and_Exposures

These opcodes were disabled in the Bitcoin code base long-ago, because they have know and very practical attack vectors.

Perhaps if they were to implement them, then someone might be kind enough to demonstrate it!

...

P.S. I'm not asserting that anyone is a 'scammer', although some of this stuff is outright 'crazy'.   ;D

Imho Bcash was born from greed and was born exactly as an attack against Bitcoin (the easiest thing I can think of is luring big chunk of hashing power away from Bitcoin and leave it at difficulty until the next difficulty adjustment).
So imho it's not unexpected they'll start devouring each other and imho this is just fine. Sorry if I am harsh, but should we have helped them also when they preached "BCash is the real Bitcoin and old Seg-Wit enabled coin is just digital lead"?

No one cares about their struggle. A snake is always be a snake no matter how many times they change their skin. It is a digital karma for them and hope their project both gone for the better.

Actually I find this pretty funny. They were saying how there was too much division in Bitcoin, then they end up forking off into their own altcoin, they start calling it "Bitcoin", and now they have their own civil war. Many lessons to learn from this.

And with Cobra on board it will be pretty fun because he has plenty of followers too. In BCash many people are tired of Craig Wright antics, he is really a clown and they have a conman promoting their altcoin yet he has supposedly a lot of hashpower to get his fork going.

At the same time we got Bitmain's tricky situation in which they are bagholding a lot of coins that may now become forked.

A big clusterfuck brews in the horizon for these that sold their BTC for forks.

This could actually turn out to be really good for Bitmain.

Let´s remember that after the Bitcoin Cash hard fork the combined
value of BTC + BCH was higher than the BTC value before the fork.

If we assume that the combined value of the two (or are there even
more?) BCH forks will be bigger than the current BCH value, this
could be a real windfall for them. Of course they control enough coins to dump
the chain that they prefer less into oblivion.

if bitcoin cash wanted to "coexist" with bitcoin then their creators would have put their efforts and millions of dollars worth of advertising into creating a brand new cryptocurrency with a bran new name.
but forking from bitcoin and using its name is just parasitic in my eyes. there is no coexistence, they have wanted to take over from day one and have not given up that effort yet.

It won't work all the time. Bitcoin was bound to go up anyway, and that directly lifts every altcoin with it in the industry.

Considering that BCash is not a price driving coin, it will only damage both BCash and the other fork coin. Especially if you take into consideration that some hashpower of BCash will flow into the fork coin for whatever period of time. Look at Litecoin and Litecoin Cash for example, there hasn't been anything of positive nature that came from that fork.

These forks only somewhat work if you use (abuse) Bitcoin's brand. Turning one shitcoin into two shitcoins is not an achievement that will be rewarded by the industry. It never has been.

I don't think so. This will create division within Bitcoin Cash, which will lead to two (more) competing coins which are going to be using SHA 256, because I doubt neither of the forks will be changing that since their end goal was to overtake Bitcoin's hashrate and then be able to call BCash "Bitcoin". Which means they will be competing for hashrate now between the different versions of BCash and competing against Bitcoin at the same time.

There is only so much diversification of your hashrate that you can do as a miner. It is already crazy that BCash is getting mined, so when division starts it will be the beginning of the end.

Seems clear to me that mining is a winner takes all scenario specially when competing coins are using the same damn algo.

Roger is the same thing as Craig Wright. He is just a bit more wise to leave himself room for future movement. He is a %100 supporter of Craig since the beginning yet when people ask Roger about Craig's claims, he says he doesn't know if he is saying the truth.

Don't get fooled now. Don't lose your attention.

He doesn't say "If he is satoshi he should sign a message." Roger is a scammer but he is smarter than the average scammer.
He doesn't say "Craig is lying on this."

He just says he doesn't know.

When you ask him about anything else he is a fucking astronaut, doctor, blockchain expert, bitcoin jesus, fucking everything but when you ask him a easy question about Craig suddenly he starts to play dumb.

He is doing the same thing with bcash/bitcoin thing. With every chances he got, he does everything to cheat people into bcash, but when you ask him about that he denies.

Fuck him.

Yups.snakes when hungry cares nothing but to eat nd this is the same position on bitcoin cash,we all know from what created this bitcoon copycat and we as bitcoin supporter we will never let this one get closer to our original coin.

And what OP says that bitcoin and bitcoincash can work together in peace,no will never happen unless they will create new coin that will be their own,and will let live bitcoin alone

It was also "born" out of politics, the need for control, and the need for the anti-Core developers to throw the Core developers out of the development process. They lost. I do not believe Bitcoin Cash will survive if their community splits again, because it will encourage more exclusive hard forks and more community splits.

And so they are going to do it again?  Shouldn't be surprising, its easy money of course forking their own will once again give them more coins. They have the freedom of course so they can fork it forever and cash flows still even if they do it a hundred times. There are certainly bigger fish to fry than forking, if they try to look at ETH, it certainly is a big threat so what they might have to get busy with is a smart contract.

Correct. And that "also" is very important there. Because they could have made a brand new coin instead of forking.
Then they could have had a clean start and less drama. But they wanted to be Bitcoin. Well, there is already Bitcoin and, somewhat like Trump said to Kim (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42549687), our consensus is bigger than theirs.

First of all the BitcoinCash community claims that BCH is real Bitcoin, and now instead they are confused about which version is the real BitcoinCash, I think this community is always looking for real things until their community becomes extinct

- https ://coingeek.com/upcoming-network-upgrade-smart-contracts-bitcoin-cash/

- https ://developer.bitcoin.com/wormhole.html

And only the wormhole might need changes to the base protocol. So what is more risky ?

Erm ... I guess currently somewhat undetermined.

As a Bitcoin 'old-timer', perhaps it works out well to keep this 'experimentation' off the 'main' chain ?

I'm actually not a fan of many aspects of tokenization in cryptocurrency, as the common use cases are much like derivatives in other financial sectors.

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokenization_(data_security) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokenization_(data_security))

How can I put this best ... Sandbox vs Sandpit ?

- https://youtu.be/AQXVHITd1N4

- https://twitter.com/JihanWu/status/928998708405977089

"BCH community needs to learn a hard lesson. Be friend with other competing coins, learn from them, and make BCH better. Don't play hatred, don't wish competing coins ill. Just wish and try to make BCH better."

It's not clear to me at all if Roger is a 100% supporter of Craig Wright. Is Jihan Wu a %100 support of Craig Wright too? That's the question.

If Jihan Wu accepts the deal and goes into Bitcoin SV, then he will be competing with Craig Wright's mining operation. Im not sure if this is the case. Perhaps there is some lack of agreement between the 3 parties and there will be major problems, specially now that Jihan has a big position stuck in BCH. Will he really keep both ends of the coin? it's too tempting to dump one of them and try to regain some losses.

The drama never ends in Bitcoin, now we have forks of forks having civil wars, can't wait to see what happens next that I can tell you.

Sing with me ...

- https://youtu.be/isCh4kCeNYU

Are you joking?
Bitcoin cash is bashing Bitcoin all days long and you expect to see the Bitcoin community supporting Bcash  :D Just because you get slapped on the cheek doesn't mean you have to give the other cheek.
Blockstream dev. helped Bitcoin cash with an exploit not long ago I think it's kind enough.

Go to post this in the Bitcoin cash thread in the altcoins board, if there is any

Altcoin boards discussion here ...

[ANN] Bitcoin Cash - Pro on-chain scaling - Cheaper fees
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2040221.0

I believe many people in the Bitcoin Cash community who "hate" Bitcoin have been manipulated by Roger Ver, the rest are holders who only want to fight for the idea that they are holding the "real Bitcoin" because they can be rich. Hahaha.

But if they throw Roger Ver and Craig Wright out, maybe they will come to terms that they are a community that can co-exist with our community.

You couldn't of said it better. And digital karma is the best ever.

It sounds a little petty when you say it like that.  Bitcoin Cash is a protocol, so it isn't bashing anything.  It's more accurate to say that some people within the Bitcoin Cash community are bashing Bitcoin.  You can tar them all with the same brush if you like, but it doesn't serve to reduce the amount of polarisation and tribalism within the community.  I don't doubt there are moderate BCH users who are perfectly happy to use BTC as well.  They don't all have to be extremists, unless your personal bias deems otherwise.  I appreciate there's still a large amount of bitterness on both sides, but so much of it is just people taking affront to the actions of a few of the more vocal personalities involved.  Try to remember that Ver and Wright aren't necessarily representative of all BCH users.

when bitcoin is decentralized, censorship resistance, boarderless, .... you say bitcoin is blah blah, you never say some people in the community are decentralized, and ...! that is the whole ideology behind bitcoin and these are the reasons why it was created in first place.

BitcoinCash was created to bash bitcoin, to replace it or at least take the market from it. that is the whole ideology behind BCH. you can't say it is only some people who are doing it. it is the whole thing. they broke consensus and went against everything that a decentralized network stands for and created a minority fork just because they had money and hashrate to throw at it.

I've never subscribed to the notion that consensus means everyone has to agree.  It means if you don't agree, you can run the code you want to run and consensus will match you up with those who agree with you.  You clearly have your own unique idea about why BCH was created and now you're projecting your perception of BCH onto every single last user.  

I feel that a less biased statement is to say that BCH was created to fill a gap in the market.  Some users felt their desires weren't being catered to.  It doesn't have to be a malicious act to want something different.  If their ideas aren't compatible and won't be implemented in BTC, what possible motivation would they have to stay?  

If you align yourself with the principles and ideology of permissionless freedom and open source, can you really be bitter about it when people use that freedom?

I bear no malice towards BCH as a coin.  It serves as a useful testbed.

I bear no malice towards Litecoin and the other couple of hundreds of coins that couldn't reach consensus on bitcoin network and forked a new coin from bitcoin from scratch and none of them used the name "bitcoin". you can still see Charlie Lee's arguments against bitcoin and how he saw it as slow so he created a new coin and called it a new name with variables he thought was best such as 2.5 min blocks and a higher total supply.
you can also see Vitalik Buterin's arguments about bitcoin from years ago, him wanting to implement his ideas into bitcoin and since he couldn't reach any sort of consensus he created his own coin and called it a new name.
same with a lot of other real developers. that is a freedom that I will respect.

BCH IS harmful to bitcoin. it is not just about the misleadings, propaganda, scams that certain people like bitcoin.com,.. do. for instance if you remember the early couple of months, during which time bitcoin was under heavy spam attack that just had stopped and the backlog was going down. then BCH came along and started literary giving money away to miners! miners could find 144 bitcoin blocks per day but if they switched they could find 1000+ BCH blocks per day so they did. and their switching over made everything worse for bitcoin for a while. and that is one of the problems it created. we don't know what other troubles lies ahead.

Then I hope for your sake that the BTC chain doesn't change in future in a manner that you don't approve of.  Otherwise I assume you'll have to find (or make) a totally new coin to use.  If you want to forsake the ability to fork away for yourself, limiting your options because of your beliefs, you're free to do that.  Just don't expect everyone else to join you in your "from scratch" endeavours.  Me?  I'm not relinquishing my right to fork away if I don't like the way things are going.  

What the fuck is wrong with that? I don't see anything weird about this approach.

If it doesn't suit your interests you shouldn't use it. That's the most sensible thing to do. I sold my bcash the week fork happened and never looked back. Why? Because I don't fucking want them. 

What bcash people are doing is trying to destroy bitcoin just because the community didn't like their proposals. Fuck them. Now they are destroying themselves because they are toxic shitheads. I am glad they forked off.

Fun fact: Cobra owns the domain of Bitcointalk too!! He is pretty powerful guy in crypto space. But it's surprising that how just within a year Bcash is facing a major problem.

Fair play to you, then.  If you don't approve of forks, that's entirely your prerogative.  You can limit yourself with whatever constraints you like.  But you don't get to force your constraints onto others.  Otherwise it's not freedom.  Regardless what you think other people should or shouldn't do, it's ultimately not your choice to make.

Why is it people only like freedom up to the point someone does something they don't approve of?



I still can't help but think they should have forked sooner.  The drawn out debate and "civil war" just made tensions worse.  It should have been a clean split from the start. 

The problem with bcash is that they don't accept defeat but instead they are trying to take down bitcoin. Nobody had any problems with Bitcoin Gold or other fork coins. Bcash is the one which claimed to be the real bitcoin and tried to hijack the name.

Bitcoin got the hashpower, community support, company support (not all but majority and that's what counts) and everything. Yet, bcash fanboys, especially Vermin still tries to confuse people. When they address bcash they write Bitcoin (BCH) wtf is this? This is straight out scam. I never saw any Bitcoin Gold hodler saying Bitcoin (BTG), they know how ridiculous that is. Bcash fans are toxic, and they are no different than a no coiner. In fact they are worse.

If they weren't that toxic and retarded I would have even bought some Bcash just to be safe and hedge myself. But no that was too much for them, instead they went full retard.

A wise man once said:

"Play stupid games, win stupid prizes."

Don't forget that Bitcoin Gold wasn't backed by people with vast influence. Many people got hyped because of GPU mining being brought back. And yet, as we have seen, it suffered from 51% attack and no one really cares about it anymore. I use Twitter only to follow people related to cryptocurrencies. I am surprised that there are still many "discussions" which are mostly focused on blaming the other side for the low price and adoption of the Bitcoin fork they support. Can't we just focus on introducing new improvements? I guess that Bitcoin Cash supporters are really bored since they can only see increasing blocksize while we are playing around with the Lightning Network.


Recently, a long discussion on this topic occurred. You can read it on Bitcoin.org github (https://github.com/bitcoin-dot-org/bitcoin.org).

But it does not have to continue that way, that is why their community should come to terms with themselves that throwing Roger Ver and Craig Wright, who is a scammer, out of their community would be better for their community itself and the protocol.

Bitcoin Cash Drama: Battle Lines Drawn Ahead of Scheduled Hard Fork
- https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-cash-drama-battle-lines-drawn-ahead-of-scheduled-hard-fork (https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-cash-drama-battle-lines-drawn-ahead-of-scheduled-hard-fork)

yawn, more social drama distractions.

craig and jihan and ver are NOT DVELOPERS. they are also if you follow the money actually part of the DCG.co (BSCARTEL) family that pay blockstream and bloq.

so its all one big social family drama of distractions.
cash was not created by ver. infact the fork occured due to the USAF part of the DCG family instigating a ban of nodes on the BTC network hours before BCH even existed (look at the blockheader data, (ledgers never lie))

meanwhile people stop looking at the shady developments going on inside BTC
but hey.. lets see all the finger pointing of social drama and ignore the important stuff like stiffling BTC's blockchain tech just to innovate commercial side services that are to become the fortknox of BTC. where the only cheap viable exit becomes a different altcoin. thus letting the "factories" keep the btc while people entr and exit LN via altcoins.  thus making people not want to use BTC

its mind blowing how people are easily pulled into the social drama and ignore the economical changes of what BTC has become
but enjoy your social drama's of talking about people that dont even code.. because that seems more important to you

It is a well generated strategy by Cobra as they were facing false competition for selling Bitcoin cash. The sites that were actually a scam is uncovered by Cobra and has been instructed to the users not to use those sites.

Well done Cobra! You have done a tremendous job to discover the real faces of scam sites which were coning general users and looted all their money. These sites should be banned immediately. BY this decision cobra has reduced the competition it was facing before.

The 'best' option is currently somewhat undeterminable in this regard.

The safest option (imho) would be to choose the Bitcoin Cøbra [#UANF] = User Activated No Fork  and then watch / wait for this to play out.

Replay protection in the new Bitcoin Cøbra (BCH) release should prevent people from actually losing coins in the potential chain-split between Bitcoin Cash ABC <> Bitcoin Cash nChain/Coingeek.

If you think hard forks are hectic and you have never experienced a chain-split before, well let me tell you, I have and it can be both extremely costly and also causes total and absolute chaos! Both short-term and long-term.

Imagine holding coins on a chain that will no longer sync with the 'main' network i.e. that you can no longer spend, because technically they no longer 'exist'. Saying that a blockchain splits is actually an under-statement of magnitude, they don't just split, they fully shatter.

- Do what thou wilt, but this is certainly not FUD.

- https://medium.com/@CobraBitcoin/announcing-cobra-client-a-safe-implementation-of-the-bitcoin-cash-protocol-and-november-hard-fork-334bc86ce32f

Then it would be better for the Bitcoin Cash community to throw Roger Ver out, wouldn't you agree? I have never heard a simple yes or no answer from you about that topic.

Are you a Roger Ver supporter?

in my opinion bitcoin cash supporters are mostly misled and it is bitcoin's fault!
last year we had one of the worst years for bitcoin as a currency and that meant huge transaction fees, slower confirmation and mid year when BCH was created even slower block generation since we lost hashrate as it went back and forth between bitcoin and BCH. and on top of that bitcoin developers and bitcoin.org and basically every bitcoin social media was starting to force feed people that bitcoin is store of value not a currency, they even removed the word "cheap" from bitcoin.org trying to say bitcoin is not even supposed to be cheap.
well that pushed people into BCH. and they abused the situation to their own advantage. people like Roger Ver and the rest who created BCH don't care about bitcoin, they just saw these faults with bitcoin and the community and started taking advantage of it to fill their pockets.
so when they "blame the other side" they do have a point but that still doesn't make their shitcoin any better.

Read carefully ...

- http://financialcryptography.com/mt/archives/001593.html
 

* More Satire ? *

"I don't care" ...
- https://youtu.be/yqOtKCUfP1M

Satoshi is dead - long live Satoshi - team leader comes out
- http://financialcryptography.com/mt/archives/001593.html

- https://twitter.com/iang_fc/status/727048377012113408?lang=en

- https://twitter.com/iang_fc/status/674722847160422400?lang=en

- https://twitter.com/haq4good/status/727295380019277830

Craig Wright tribute video to friend Dave Kleiman (some say this pair is "Satoshi"). RIP (1967-2013)
- https://youtu.be/uVtOkE5vHbY

Gavin vs Vitalik, "Craig wright is probably not Satoshi" Mic drop moment
- https://youtu.be/2qLI3VIHuKU

- https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2016/05/05/craig-wright-says-sorry-he-cant-offer-proof-hes-bitcoin-creator-satoshi/

Dr. Craig Wright - Rekt - Admits he is not Satoshi Nakamoto
- https://youtu.be/KoM1jl4Hldk

- https://coinjournal.net/did-craig-wright-lie-about-his-yacht/

- https://twitter.com/ProfFaustus/status/1012760394212040704

Dr. Craig Wright exposes Blockstream false narrative
- https://youtu.be/RpWt2RKTTjQ

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Steven_Wright

I think bitcoincash community claim that bch is the real bitcoin. They are little bit confused that which is real cash. I think it will solve soon. I believe this community is looking for aome real thing untill it will demolish.

There was also the recent statement by Jihan Wu saying that he has a "strong feeling" that Craig Wright might be a character "planted" by Blockstream, but he does not have proof. Hahaha.

I saw it on Twitter. I will post immediately after I find it again.

I demand to know which Mods are deleting my posts.
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4984457.0

Deleted Post
« Sent to: BitcoinFX on: August 30, 2018, 09:03:37 PM »

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by a Bitcoin Forum moderator. Posts are most frequently deleted because they are off-topic, though they can also be deleted for other reasons. In the future, please avoid posting things that need to be deleted.

Quote
Bitcoin Cash Drama: Battle Lines Drawn Ahead of Scheduled Hard Fork
- https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-cash-drama-battle-lines-drawn-ahead-of-scheduled-hard-fork

Announcing Cobra Client: a safe implementation of the Bitcoin Cash protocol and November hard fork
- https://medium.com/@CobraBitcoin/announcing-cobra-client-a-safe-implementation-of-the-bitcoin-cash-protocol-and-november-hard-fork-334bc86ce32f

All-Star Panel: Ed Moy, Joseph VaughnPerling, Trace Mayer, Nick Szabo, Dr. Craig Wright
- https://youtu.be/LdvQTwjVmrE

...

They have gone "Full Billionaire Mode" ...

Were going "Full Mr. Robot Mode" ... - SWIM

- https://youtu.be/POxMp61Ksbk

No Pizza, fancy haircuts ...
- https://youtu.be/8yX1dIK9vuc

* More Satire - I love Satire *

So you advocate a permissioned, censorable Bitcoin? Interesting. In some morbid sort of way.

WTF? I know you've been around the block a few times, but you're spouting crazy talk anyhow.

As long as you possess the private key, you can freely transfer whatever coins are bound to that address. You may need to import said keys to another client that supports the chain you are desiring to use, but it is certainly within your power to spend any and all coins to which you own the keys.

No I advocate that scammers who are acting as "leaders" should be thrown out of any community. Are you advocate that they should be left alone to confuse, manipulate, and scam the public?

Do you support Roger Ver and Craig Wright?

In BCH big blocks are supported

https://old.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/9cbq2g/213_mb_block_completes_the_bch_stress_test/


Not 'big' ppl.

Pls think of what Bitcoin is about.

Now you are spotting crazy talk, too. It is impossible to 'throw somebody out' of a permissionless, uncensorable system. Impossible.

I know, but you know what I am really trying to say, right? That is the Bitcoin Cash community should speak out against Roger Ver, and Craig Wright, and their fraudulent ways. Wouldn't you agree?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DmanXeDXcAEgBfH.jpg

Bring the popcorn, and I will bring the drinks. What will be the most imaginable outcome out of this? 8)

I believe that a chain split would keep everyone in any side happy. They have already set an example that "it's ok" by splitting from Bitcoin to Bitcoin Cash, another split will not make a difference.

Interesting that Jihan would repeat the very same argument that was used against him.  Why is it always an "attack" where other people want to "take control"?  Why is it never simply "these people have different ideas, so just ignore them while they fork away peacefully"?  No one is in control.  That's the entire point.  

Still, it's more entertaining this way.  Keep poking that hornet's nest, Jihan.   :D

Hahaha. It's an "attack" if someone else is doing it on them, but it is "liberation from evil" if they are the people doing it.

But it also goes back to Roger Ver. Who does he support, Craig Wright or Jihan Wu?

Roger Ver would be branding and advertising his product this way if he owned a company that was competing against Microsoft. Plus he would go around the world saying that "Binbows is the real Windows". 8)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DnPxZZyX4AMRbFU.jpg

Indeed, Roger Ver always cornered Bitcoin, even though Bitcoin Cash was also the result of hardfork from Bitcoin.
I think Roger Ver is indeed inappropriate in the development team of Bitcoin Cash if it continues like that.