Bitcoin Forum

Bottom line up front: this is about "investing" in altcoins that provide Proof of Stake return.

Everything I invest in provides dividends. I have stocks, mutal funds, bonds, REITs, ETFs, ETNs, CEFs, LMNOPs and more… So when I first jumped into cryptocurrency (Nov 2013), and really learned about the different coins and how they operate I was drawn to the coins with Proof of Stake.

Now coins are A LOT different than stocks, funds and the rest. Unlike a company, coins don't produce anything (besides more coins) - so their value is not based upon their profit (or loss) throughout the year. Coins are by design meant to be currency, a medium of exchange. So their value is determined by their adoption, scarcity, and other magic. Similar to foreign exchange trading, but far riskier, because those currencies have to be used by their countries for some time - they're not going to have a hard fork and suddenly become useless.        

So when I say "investing" I do so with trepidation, because the altcoin scene is a lot like gambling as well. You're hoping the coins get adopted and see wide scale use. Because if they don't you're effectively just trading baseball cards/stamps/or even pre-chewed gum.

The point: Don't invest anything - time or money - that you aren't willing to lose.

I have real money in the game because I believe cryptocurrency will grow. But it isn't my life savings, or a sizable amount because I am just an average man with bills and children that I want to see in college.

What is Proof of Stake?
It is a type of model where the holder of a cryptocoin after a set period of time will receive a Stake - a reward - for holding that coin. Now both the period of time and amount of the stake is variable. For a fairly complete list of coins, periods, and stake percentages, please see my other thread:
Proof of Stake Coin List (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=458726.0)

Proof of stake started with Peercoin (PPCoin), the first  scrypt adopter was NVC, while the first scrypt-jane adopter was Yacoin. I don't know if there are any quark-algo (or other alternate algo) coins with stake - but that'd be a good idea (hint hint devs) if pulled off right.

Arguments against Stake
Some will argue that the stake model is flawed. There are many arguments, but ponzi scheme and pyramid scheme are thrown around a lot. In my opinion stake is neither of these - offering stake is no different then a coin that offers decreasing returns over time. You're offering early adopters a reward for their work and effort (i.e. holding coins). I will not get into arguments on the matter - I'm just here to talk about what I am doing.  

Why a different thread
I did not want to muddy the other thread with my opinion on the coins - good, bad, and what to invest in. That is what this thread is for. So without further chatter…

When it comes to proof of stake there are a number of coins to choose from. However, I will contend that there are very few to hold on to for their stake. I am not interest in coins with small stake - the market will play havoc with the value, so even if you do get stake you won't likely recoup value in a reasonable time. I'm not interested in coins without devs - without good devs the coin dies. The coin needs to have a community - if no one is interested in the coin then you can't sell it to anyone.

Bearing those things in mind, I would contend that the following coins are possible investments:
Battlecoin (BCX)
50% NVCS (1%), SA 10/20, Coins 4.76, Cryptsy, CMC
Possibility. Fallen a lot recently. Time will tell.  
Cryptocash (CASH)
10% yearly (0.6%), SA 30/90, Coins 2.26, Cryptsy
Possibility. Fallen a lot recently. Time will tell.
Hobonickel (HBN)
100% NVCS (1.9%), SA 10/30, Coins 5.71, Cryptsy, CMC
A major contender. Good devs. Good fluidity. Not as big a community as others.
Mintcoin (MINT)
20% yearly – decreasing every year (1.1%), SA 20/40, Coins 3333, Cryptsy, CMC
Newest coin on the list. Large community. Price is very volatile.
Novacoin (NVC)
100% NVCS (1.3%), SA 30/90, Coins 95, Cryptsy, CMC
The progenitor of the rest of the coins on the list. Good dev. Good fluidity. Largest market cap of the coins on the list.  
Philosopherstones (PHS)
50% yearly (0.7%), SA 5/10, Coins 95, Cryptsy, CMC
A major contender. Devs seem responsive. Not a big community.  
Tekcoin (TEK)
500% NVCS (40%), SA 30/90, Coins 4.76, Cryptsy
Possibility because of its large stake, age and stability. Dev says there are things in work. Little community.
Cachecoin (CACH)
5% yearly (0.1%), SA 7/30, Coins 95, Cryptsy, CMC
Possibility because it is the only script-jane with the best stake/period combo. Time will tell.
 
Diamond (DMD)
On watch. Devs say things are in works. If they release an update that has fixed the stake - and it is a good stake, it can be a contender.
Teslacoin (TES)
On watch. Started well, but there is little activity of late.


From the above list I have selected 4, and 4 only that I consider a stake investment core.

My criteria: Market Cap, Stake Return, Dev team, Community

My 4 core coins are:
Hobonickels [HBN], Philsopherstone [PHS], Novacoin [NVC], and Tekcoin [TEK]

I believe any stake investor should hold these 4 coins.

Now, the ratio in which you hold them is determined by how much risk you are willing to take. It is the old risk vs. reward profile. A portfolio heavy in TEK and HBN will yield a lot more, but it will have to deal with a lot of price fluctuation and low liquidity. A NVC heavy portfolio will be stable in price and you'll have liquid assets, but your return will be lower.

StakeHunter Portfolios
I offer two possible portfolios for those beginning to dabble in stake. If you only had 1 BTC and wanted to "invest" in coins that provide stake, the following two portfolios would let you do so. One is High Yield and you risk price fluctuation do to coin price. The other is more conservative and it will be more price stable but the yield will be smaller.

StakeHunter Conservative Portfolio - 1BTC/80% yearly/6.7% monthly
Hobonickels - HBN - 0.25 BTC - 0.0148 BTC monthly stake
Novacoin - NVC - 0.5 BTC - 0.0188 BTC monthly stake
Philosopherstone - PHS - 0.1 BTC - 0.0042 BTC monthly stake
Tekcoin - TEK - 0.1 BTC - 0.0289 BTC monthly stake
Other - 0.05 BTC

StakeHunter High Yield Portfolio - 1BTC/131% yearly/11% monthly
Hobonickels - HBN - 0.5 BTC - 0.0296 BTC monthly stake
Novacoin - NVC - 0.1 BTC - 0.0038 BTC monthly stake
Philosopherstone - PHS - 0.1 BTC - 0.0042 BTC monthly stake
Tekcoin - TEK - 0.25 BTC - 0.0722 BTC monthly stake
Other - 0.05 BTC

As you can see, two separate ways to invest can yield two vary different returns. But these are the only ways 1BTC can be split. It all depends upon how much risk you want to assume. And what about the 0.05 BTC Other - that is for new coins and opportunities - for example Growthcoin or Fluttercoin.  

Nice post.

What does "50% NVCS (1%), SA 10/20" mean?

My Proof of Stake coin list has a lot more info - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=458726.0
But I should have it here to make it reader friendly...

Thanks!

Why did you leave out NXT?

because in crypto investment circles only a nutjob would invest in 100% premine scamcoin.

Thanks for this list and your other thread.  I'm thinking these coins make a lot of sense as a holding.  I just wish there was one with the community of something like doge.  Maybe PPC?

Thanks again!

Good post. I like the list you have come up with. There is two coins I wish you would have left out, as I am still building up positions on them. It will make my life a bit harder if people start to get wise to the trade, I am prepared to do battle on the orderbook if they want to battle me.

Its hard to maintain a PoS coin so a good dev is important. This is why Hobonickels is one of my larger holdings and the basis for my investment journal. (shameless plug warning) check my sig below.

Big fan of POS myself. Prefer ones with decent POS rewards (rather then just token POS as a security measure), BCX being my favorite pick as decent reward and active dev with a unique plan for the coin ie could get interesting  ;D

You have omitted microCoin (POW/POS Combined).

All, please note - these coins are my personal picks. Your picks might be different and all the coins mentioned are on my complete stake list - in the first post.

I will be expanding more upon these coins and how I invest in further posts. However I want to address some comments here...

@megashira1 - I do not want to invest in NXT currently. I personally can't get behind a coin that was distributed as shares. And it's POS model is undisclosed. If I invest X amount - I truly don't know what I will get as a return because it depends upon the use and adoption of NXT.

@galbros - Feel free to invest in PPC - it does have a big market cap. However it violates one of my roles - is Stake is minimal: 1%. I don't want the coin as much as the return that can be converted.

@tokyoghetto - I know...You're like an investing brother - we have similar mindsets. I weighed whether to make this post. But I think its necessary to broaden community awareness of all the coins. Its better to fight over a coin so there are people willing to buy it from you when you want to sell. Plus, we've all (the whole cryptp community bought into this crypto thing - so lets benefit from it.

@kelsey - agreed on BCX. It seems active, and the concept is interesting. I've picked up some to see if it will recover, but it is not a cornerstone.

@Buratino - microCoin is Stake, but it violates another of my rules - its period of stake is toooo long. Its min stake is 1 year. Who knows where crypto and especially microCoin will be in a year...    

I've mined a few tek but its not worth it with my cube. I'm just gonna purchase a bunch instead. The stake rate is really attractive

Don't forget about EBTcoin!

We're up and coming in the stake game!

PoS Reward: 10% - Begins on day 30, mature at day 90

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=437660.0

I'm very interested in POS myself. What are your thoughts on CryptogenicBullion?
My personal top 3 favorite stake coins are:

1. Hobonickels
2. TEKcoin
3. PhilosopherStone

i know its a real new coin just wanted to know your view on zeitcoin, might be to early to throw a review out there but it does have 25% stake first year and alot of people are mining it right now, obviously getting TZM involved will help the coin alot but i just started getting into the POS coins myself and value peoples opinions.

Growthcoin (GRW)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=267019.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=469464.0

GrowthCoin provides monthly interest rate of 5.95%, for stakes that are held during that period of time. This equivalent to an annual interest of 100%. PoS blocks will be generated if the stake are held for more than 5 days (first generation will starts around 9th days). There is a hard limit of 2 billion coins.

now very low difficulty 0.05-0.1 for mining

EXCHANGES
CoinEx
http://www.coinex.pw/trade/grw_btc
BTCLTC
http://www.btcltc.com/home/index/grw_cny (Chinese)

All - again, just being frank.

@EBT - What makes EBT different from CASH - same "profile" and stats basically. CASH is on Cryptsy, seems to have a bigger community, and is on CMC.

And CASH isn't that great either. As I will outline soon, I will not put much money into it - I have mined it, but I have not bought any except for ~.15 BTC. There are more lucrative investments than CASH.

@garbagerun - CGB is a no go. It has a good market cap, but its stake is so small it is none existent, so it is not for me.

@oaks05 - What makes Zeitcoin different from MINT? It smells like a copy and paste - complete with a stake that decreases every year. Yes their may be a tie to the TZM, however it isn't there now. And what about the premine...

And MINT...smells like DOGE - both good and bad to that. I mined MINT in the beginning, but I won't be buying any - it is too volatile. Unless it takes off/becomes stable I will be selling of my stake to buy NVC probably. And once the stake decreases I may not even look at it at all.

@garicson
I should put GRW on my watch list. The problem is, it had a history, it died, and now its back. I have mined GRW and I'm sitting on some to see if the stake is real. It is working on coinex.pw...however like all the coins it suffers from pretty low volume because its community is even smaller than the others.  

Besides rule 1: Don't invest anything - time or money - that you aren't willing to lose.

I should mention 2-6...

2. Have a plan - stick to the plan
You need to outline what your goals are, so you can measure how your investment is performing.
- Do you want to make X BTC a month?
- Do you want to grow your portfolio to Y total BTC?
- What currencies are you going to trade?
- What are your criteria?

3. Don't put all your eggs in one basket
Don't trust just one currency. Especially when investing in high stake coins. The market is very volatile - you'll get tired of hearing me say that. Spread out your investment - have a portfolio - so a shock to one doesn't wreck you. This ONLY applies to stake trading. If you only want to day trade and hold BTC or LTC be my guest - but that is not what I'm about.

4. Be able to cut your loss
If a trade or currency doesn't go your way - cut your loss. Don't get sentimental about a crypto - don't keep it because you like it. THat isn't what this is about. Besides - crypto is a VERY risky market. There is NO guarantee it will recover, so don't "double down" on hopes that it will rise from the dead. It may, but IMO your money is better put into other crypto. 

5. Compound your interest
Read up on compounding interest. The basics are, that you hold some of the stake back so that the next time you take stake you stake some of the previous gains. This allows you to grow your investment faster than selling all your stake every time. Plus it is the coin equivalent to dividend reinvestment in the stock world - you effectively "buy" coin in all markets - when its high and low to average out the cost of the coin. 

6. Take profit
VERY important. We're in this to make a profit right? So if you hold onto all your coin where's the profit? Currently only one coin is truly "spendable." Now I hope that will change, but it is important to lock in some gains in BTC. Why? It helps the market - having volume and liquidity is a good thing. Plus having BTC around allows you tot take advantage of deals in other currency in your portfolio. 

Those are some basic tips. Next time I'll talk about my cornerstone portfolio - BCX/HBN/NVC/PHS/TEK - and why I chose them.

Add Mint.

MintCoin is an innovative, secure and energy efficient PoW/PoS coin. It uses a faster PoW distribution mechanism to distribute the initial coins, then after 5 weeks the coin is basically transferred to a pure PoS coin, where the generation of the coin is mainly through the PoS interests.

MintCoin also adopt a variable PoS rate, which gives the highest payout at 20% the first year, then decrease 5% per year until the 4th year it reaches annual interest rate of 5%, then it will remain at this rate.

Because after 5 weeks it is basically a pure PoS coin, it does not need to be intensively mined, as the PoW payout will remain the minimum. Most coins will be generated through PoS, thus it is a coin that will save a lot of energy compared to other coins.

MintCoin will have a total of 70 billion coins. Initially each block will deliver 100000 to 900000 coins randomly. The PoW payout will be halved each week (7 days). After 5 weeks, the PoW payout will be fixed at 1 coin per block.

PoS will start after at least 20 days of holding of the coins in the wallet. With PoS, the coin is more resilient to 51% attack.

Might want to add Zeitcoin, its very similar to mintcoin and still on week 1 of mining.

It is quite impossible to buy-in with most of those PoS coins because the volumes are very low at low prices. I might wait for some big movements before I coin in, also I need to be sure that the inflation is handled properly.

RE inflation: All of these coins have a total coin cap - so they are just like BTC in that manner. However, where it comes to the ROI % - if you read the first post about novacoin and its model - which is used by NVC, HBN, and TEK you can see that the % will vary based upon stake difficulty which takes into account the number of coins on the market. They all start at their max ROI, but fall off to a minimum of 1% based upon the coins in the market. Thus, I believe they have inflation well under control. NVC for example started out at 100% but it is currently ~40%.

And about volume...Miners are willing to put in effort to mine coins, we need to do the same from an investment point of view. If we think it is worth it we have to be willing to buy and maybe pump the price a little bit. That is how a currency grows. I bet I and a handful of other investors have brought HBN, TEK and probably even PHS up to the levels they are at.

As I said in previous posts: if we want value - we have to make the volume. We have to be willing to buy AND SELL the coins. We can't just hoard them.

That is why I make the following StakeHunter pledge:
I will sell 25% of my stake every month.

10% goes to the Lord and the rest will go to BTC for liquidity and for buying power.

I was just going to say this. Zeit is super cheap right now.

That's its problem - it is a copy and paste of mint. And mint is a copy paste of DOGE.  I am not interested in the day trading game. I know I should pump some BTC into zeit, watch it climb to 25 - 45 satoshi and then dump it like everyone else. That'd get me 10X which would be something.  

But these coins are a game to most. A very rough game to make money where people have to lose money. That is what many don't think about. So I sell at 25 satoshi - some crazy person had to buy it. And when the bottom falls out they're holding the bag. Love my neighbor more than myself. I don't want to be a bag holder, so I don't want to do it to others.

I want to lift a community up, not make a quick BTC. The coins I want are not meant to be a flash in the pan. 20% is not appealing. 25% is not appealing. My plan is long term investment with stable coins.    

Let me introduce you to my core stake portfolio. From the above list I have selected 4, and 4 only that I consider a core.

My criteria:
Market Cap
Stake Return
Dev team
Community

My 4 core coins are:
Hobonickels [HBN], Philsopherstone [PHS], Novacoin [NVC], and Tekcoin [TEK]

I believe any stake investor should hold these 4 coins.

Now, the ratio in which you hold them is determined by how much risk you are willing to take. It is the old risk vs. reward profile. A portfolio heavy in TEK and HBN will yield a lot more, but it will have to deal with a lot of price fluctuation and low liquidity. A NVC heavy portfolio will be stable in price and you'll have liquid assets, but your return will be lower.

Don't forget CGB, a child of Novacoin but further developed upon.

CGB is a gimmick coin. CGB's stake is 1% annual and it is driven by price fluctuation. A stake investor will never recoup any loss seen to price drop.

DO NOT invest in CGB for stake.

In a market completely saturated by shite, getting a dividend is not a reason to invest. Fair enough, some coins you mention are okay but I'd take my chances and just invest in BTC. I reckon my holdings (against USD) in 5 years compared to yours will be better (assuming we are not playing trade games).

You've got a good point. The market is ugly. And I'd contend just looking for capitol growth closes the door on other income opportunities. That's why I invest in dividend stocks - capitol plus dividend.   

I don't play trading game - I just invest money. And why I recommend to take profits. That is very important. I also invest in BTC stocks. Plus, I am putting money into BTC - not all my eggs in one basket.
 
It all depends upon adoption and awareness. But that's why I don't invest cautiously and do my homework.

Main post updated with 2 possible stake portfolios...

StakeHunter Portfolios
I offer two possible portfolios for those beginning to dabble in stake. If you only had 1 BTC and wanted to "invest" in coins that provide stake, the following two portfolios would let you do so. One is High Yield and you risk capitol and return fluctuation do to coin price. The other is more conservative and it will be more price stable but the yield will be smaller.

StakeHunter Conservative Portfolio - 1BTC/80% yearly/6.7% monthly
Hobonickels - HBN - 0.25 BTC - 0.0148 BTC monthly stake
Novacoin - NVC - 0.5 BTC - 0.0188 BTC monthly stake
Philosopherstone - PHS - 0.1 BTC - 0.0042 BTC monthly stake
Tekcoin - TEK - 0.1 BTC - 0.0289 BTC monthly stake
Other - 0.05 BTC

StakeHunter High Yield Portfolio - 1BTC/131% yearly/11% monthly
Hobonickels - HBN - 0.5 BTC - 0.0296 BTC monthly stake
Novacoin - NVC - 0.1 BTC - 0.0038 BTC monthly stake
Philosopherstone - PHS - 0.1 BTC - 0.0042 BTC monthly stake
Tekcoin - TEK - 0.25 BTC - 0.0722 BTC monthly stake
Other - 0.05 BTC

As you can see, two separate ways to invest can yield two vary different returns. But these are the only ways 1BTC can be split. It all depends upon how much risk you want to assume. And what about the 0.05 BTC Other - that is for new coins and opportunities - for example Growthcoin or Fluttercoin. 

I don't understand why a coin called "HoboNickels" would be a good investment.

The name originally was targeted at itinerant workers but it has since become used to target the homeless (many of whom have mental health issues).

The name is kind of offensive really, so not the best grounding for a future.

Plus, the name effectively says the value is next to nothing anyway.

Are your calculations assuming that we aren't reinvesting stake?

Every name has a meaning. Hobonickel is not menat to be an offensive term, but an homage. Doing a simple google search...


HoboNickel Society - http://www.hobonickels.org/

You should also take a look at EBT if you haven't already. Could be a very good investment.

That is correct. This is not assuming reinvestment/compounding.

Research hobo nickels as a sculptural art form and the history behind it and you may come to a different conclusion.

EBT is NOT a good stake opportunity.

Its stake is only 5%. It fails all of my qualifications. No one placing their BTC will EVER recover their value from stake. All it takes is one fall... Make the stake 100% yearly NVC and then maybe we'll talk.  

Thanks for the clarification. I assumed that was the case after reading your rule #6, but I just wanted to be sure. Converting obtained stake (I guess it's okay calling them dividends, hehe) with each month into BTC would give this effect.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but with PoS, I don't recall it being a hard rule that you'll generate stake in a given time frame, just that your chances of generating a PoS block even out to what the coded return rate is throughout the given time frame. What are your thoughts on reconciling returns if it takes longer than usual?

What if I cant have the wallet running 24/7, how much inpact if I open the wallet lets say for 3 hours once every week ?

You are right, there is no guarantee that stake will happen at minimum stake age. From my experience HBN, PHS & TEK will stake around their min stake - as long as your coins are in bundles bigger than ~100 coins. You have to keep track through coin control. TEK does not have coin control, but I've PMed the dev. Coins in larger bundles insure higher probability of stake.

There is no guarantee for NVC however. Again you need to have coin bundles greater than 100 coins, and that is difficult given the price. So NVC will take longer.

However, the percentage is a yearly percentage that is applied at the time of stake. Thus if coins take longer to stake, the percentage that you get will be greater. IF your NVC takes 3 months, when it does stake you will get 3X the monthly percentage.  

It lowers your opportunity to stake. Wallets need to communicate with the network to determine coin stake age, and probabilities are computed to see if coins will stake. Plus, once they stake they have to be communicated to the network or they will become orphans.

You can do this - once a week - but I would give a wallet a full 24 hours. It should not change your stake return perceptibly. 

In order for your coins to begin minting you must have an unlocked wallet that remains connected to the network for extended periods of time (for the highest probability of success 24/7 network connectivity is suggested). You can also allow your coins to age with the wallet offline, but keep in mind that once the wallet is back online the blocks will be competing with the rest of the blocks ready to stake on the network. When you bring coins back online and fully synchronize with the blockchain, your coins will have a high coin age and might be eligible for stake before other coins in the network.
http://wiki.hobonickels.info/index.php?title=Proof_of_Stake

Full disclosure...

My BTC is where my mouth is. Here is a breakdown of my portfolio:
~22 BTC
40.3% HBN
16.3% NVC
8.1% PHS
20.5% TEK
15.5% Other

I am working to get the other down to less than 5% because most are in non-stake coins.

I know everyone is saying BTC is king. LTC is king...etc. But I honestly don't understand why people don't hold stake coins. To me it is strange that if you are just going to have a chunk of money sitting there, why not have it do work for you?   

I try to keep my wallet locked and closed most of the time.
Ill open it now and then and get my stake, but keeping it open 24/7 is asking for trouble.

I agree, the way that wallets work currently it's not a good idea from a security perspective.

One of the new features being added to PoS coin wallets is to allow encrypted wallets to stake.

http://i57.tinypic.com/2d17nmq.png

Yeah for anybody who hasn't yet found out Proof-Of-Stake is a great way to make a guaranteed profit off your investment albeit not as large as guessing the next coin that explodes.

Think of it as a reliable long term investment whereas Aura and Doge have had the potential to outdo a whole year of proof-of-stake in a month simply from being artificially raised.

Good write up for people who aren't all there in the head :P

That's the idea. Not that anything is guaranteed. However to me it is better than guessing at coins.

I prefer the just sit back and watch approach instead of the stress of hoping a trade will go your way.

Both NVC and PHS are down. Depending upon your outlook it could be a buy opportunity.

NVC better recover, or it may lose its vaunted "safe" status.  

Even if it is down I still like PHS. It gives real returns (50% yearly) every ~5 days. Unlike other coins with low % yield or long min stake age, you can really see coins compounding.  

YMMV

we don't need to create more PoS coins when we have established coins in hand. Notice how the devs for the following coins have been around for a while. 

Balthazar = NVC
Tranz = HBN
Palmdroit = PHS
Thundertoe = TEK.

Good devs and good communities. Thundertoe was the person who first launched HBN before Tranz took over. Palmdroit has been quick to respond to PHS community requests and just recently launched a new PHS client with coin control. Don't forget Sunny King, without him we wouldn't even have PoS. Balthazar has been instrumental in working out the kinks with PoS and the value of NVC is a sign of what type of value other PoS coins can have.

I agree completely. We don't need another coin, but community support for the ones that exist. We need to start talking them up. Tell people that they could be used, what their benefits are. See if we can get merchants to use them, etc. 

Is there minimum amount required for stake? I mean after month does 1 coin have just one hundred times less chance to stake than 100 coin ? I ask because I have many small amounts in wallet from mining, I never joined these together

All,

A note for the faithful few. Interesting news on the diamond front...
It appears the devs have been at work and they rolled out a new wallet. They say they fixed the Stake.
http://dmdcoin.net/forum/index.php/topic,137.0.html

I have some DMD just for playing around with - picked it up cheap. We shall see what it does.

With NCV there is no min...Currently 1 coin could take you ~150+ days to stake. And anything less, you could never see stake in under a year. Anyone sitting with small coin amounts in NVC, I suggest you take the hit and combine them into a big chunk.

Can't choose 1. I'd do a HBN/TEK combo. Probably 85% HBN / 15% TEK. Maybe up the TEK percent if we can see the dev more.

Dev/price stability/community/Stake - are all about equal factors for me.

This has made me think...and with the decline of NVC. I'm going to rearrange my profile.
I am not going to invest in NVC any more. I may liquidate some holdings - cut my losses.
I will realign with HBN/TEK/PHS.
And I will increase exposure to cryptostocks.

You need to "premine" to get proof of stake..

Are you still here OP?

Good thing I found this thread. then learned about tekcoin. Had not even used slyshgal this coin.

Great, I like the whole PoS concept, but I hate the idea of being forced to leave an open wallet connected to the network for extended periods of time. If someone invents a way to let an encrypted wallet stake it should encourage a lot more people to adopt PoS coins.

Who is developing this new feature?

Hi OP

Nice thread. Pretty much in line with tokyoghetto and his thread on HBN. Interesting stuff for us newbies.

I have only one issue so far. There's very little info in Tekcoin. The only official? website I can find for them does not have a windows wallet and the link to the block explorer is broken. That does not instill a lot of confidence in a new coin imo.

Keep up the good work.

I'm still here...

I've been doing A LOT of portfolio work recently.
An update -
NVC - I liquidated all of mine back when it hit 0.0118 - I will not open any new positions
HBN - With the climb of HBN I have sold ~30K. Holding ~33K
PHS & TEK - Have not touched.

I have taken my profits and put a lot of it into projects on Cryptostocks.com
I have "diversified" my portfolio with Mining Projects, Trade Projects, and Pool Projects

I feel this gives me a broader "investment" and the returns are:
- comparable to HBN
- In BTC - which is easier to swap/reinvest

I think with some of your returns it may be a good idea to go back to hobonickels (Buy high sell higher xD) because they seem to be in a fairly good position where they can move around a lot in price but always hold a fair price. That way you could leave it staking for 100 days or something and come back to a fairly good price imo.

With my profits from cryptostocks - daily dividends for some - I may get back into HBN.
At the levels it is at however it is risky. I'd rather see where it moves first, I don't know if it can sustain this - to high to fast. I'll give it a few days and possibly buy on a dip.

I appreciated your ideas and research on investing in POS coins. Do you have any thoughts on good cryptostocks you've seen so far? Which site are you using if you don't mind me asking?
thanks

I suspect he's referring to this:

https://cryptostocks.com/

I believe they're run by the same guys that operate vircurex.

Thanks for that, looks interesting!

cryptostocks.com is indeed the site.

I have a decent portfolio there: mining and trading stocks.
My picks are...
Mining - BSVM & COINFARM
Trading - Autotrade & TRAC
Mix: VARINVMIN

Opinions on Zeitcoin stakehunter? It's 25% with a low cost of admission and a virtually non-existent PoW component with reward at 1/block.

Zeitcoin is the same as Mintcoin - stay away unless you want to gamble on the price going up.

Look for DMD to make a rise if they can get the POS working. It is supposed to be 50%.

communitycoins another interesting one, pure pos, 30% pa, and only 1 day mint age.

 all originally given away, watch with interest.

Ha ha I think HBN is a little overpriced right now so I am getting cheap PHS and TEK right now ;)

Pick you battles man!

I'll buy into HBN when it has a crash.

What do you think about Battlecoin? Does it have any future?
Now it's 60x cheaper than HBN, but I wonder where it will go (considering devs activity and future plans).

but HBN doesnt have crashes

Thanks for taking the time, though I'm somewhat confused by your response. I mean you're right, Zeitcoin does seem to be based on Mintcoin, but with a higher payout(25% vs 20%) and a much lower pricetag(11 vs 4). Both seem to have good support and large communities, though obviously Mint is more established. I've stacked some of each anyway, so I guess I'll see which pays off the best going forward.

I keep checking into the DMD thread to monitor progress, but I have to say I've found the responses to be less  than awe inspiring.

I don't like coins less than 50% stake. They can get rocked by the market easily. One downswing and you will never recoup your losses with stake. If you're going to keep them, do so because you think they will become popular/appreciate. The stake is just gravy then. For ex I mined Fluttercoin in the beginning because the dev is super active. I'm holding on just because it is popular not for the small change stake of 5%.

 HBNs skyrocket makes me wish I never sold of my 30K...oh well I kept a lot too and it is growing.

From your last sentence you are just speculating, which is OK but don't misunderstand it as investing. POS coins are worth investing in because they are secure. Paste something over from another thread:

The purpose of POS is to secure the network. POS reward is paid to secure the network by minting. High % return of POS is just a self-diluting game that puts a downward pressure on the coin's price, hence doesn't offer real return as "interest".

POS reward should be very small because it really doesn't take a lot of work to mint.  Over-rewarding is just printing money.

...then surely you're voting every 24hrs to have PHS added to allcrypt.com or mintpal every hour. Cryptsy's PHS wallet is once again offline as I write this. Most likely this is due to one of their idiotic techs tripping on a cord or forgetting how to install a simple update.

https://www.allcrypt.com/voting
https://www.mintpal.com/voting

True. HBN has one of the most stable markets in altcoins.

diff went from 1.8 to 13.

What will happen to the price?

TEK IS THE REAL FUTURE OF POS !!! <3 i love it !

+1. Although with practice, it's more than guessing - but still dangerous and uncertain.

Is there a place where one can get the actual NVCS rate? I guess it is it impossible to have an exact number, since we don't know which wallet are exchanges (and so don't stack) and which ones are just not opened. But can we get an estimate?

It also appears to me than the staking coin are only worth it the first month or years, since eventually, people will stake more and more. OTOH hand, if you take a look at NVC chart and if it means anything, how can you promote NVC, whose price is fally consistently?
https://www.cryptocoincharts.info/v2/pair/nvc/btc/btc-e
https://www.cryptocoincharts.info/v2/pair/nvc/btc/cryptsy/alltime

Interesting, I'll think about it.

POS coins are the future! Shame that you don't consider NXT.

Why did you leave out NXT?

Because it doesn't have Stake intrest. Only transaction fees.

ok.thk u

Hi,

I wrote a PoS guide. It is certainly full of mistakes, could you please review it? Thank you.

How PoS work (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=606342)

check LGD legendary coin - very cheap now on cryptsy, stakes similar to HBN.

Have you ever heard about NEM or NXT? Cant understand why you let them out of your post.
Anyway - nice thread

TEK is my new favorite PoS coin.

40% interest per month sounds too good to be true- but so far stakers are holding onto their staked coins and the value just keeps on going up.

There's a Ponzi aspect to high interest POS alts...
Daily Coin Maintenance new money must mop up all the new coins...
Or your net investment loses ground regardless of "interest" payments.

You constantly need new Customers...
Is there a White Paper on High Stake Interest anyone knows about?

One could probably do very creative things with this.

A PoS coin I noticed today is HYPER https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=624651.0

5% monthly PoS interest, compounding daily. The team has some cool ideas like a Market Stabilization Fund and sponsoring the development of an MMO which uses HYPER as the in-world game currency. Similar to PHS except it compounds daily.

Looks promising, mining is for another two weeks only before it changes to pure PoS.

Read tokyoghetto on HYPER (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=633016.0). Basically, 33% premine plus greed in the management fund.
Hyper => premine
Orbitcoin => premine
Legendary coin => premine
Battlecoin => premine
Other High-PoS => usually OK

Sync is worth a mention now.
X11 POW ended now pure POS 100% stake
Only 1000 coins ;)

he already stated that he only wants coins that yield intrest. NEM and NXT only pay the transaction fees, and not intrest at all.

ROM just got listed on Bittrex.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=617724.0

It pays out 30% annually. 1 day min/30 day max. It just finished its PoW period, so its now 100% PoS. Only 15 millions in existence and its trading at 66 satoshi. Compare that to CINNI that had 15 million coins at the end of its PoW period and only pays 3.5% annually, yet trades at over 10k satoshi. Well you guys decide.  

Thank you for advice but tokyoghettos post is full of lies read this post from HYPER dev showing pre mine transparency: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=624651.msg7088058#msg7088058

They set up transparent funds to help fund their projects and have big team and community that is growing all the time. Premine is used for building MMO, marketing and market stabilization purpose.

5% PoS interest staked daily is great the wallet looks awesome and space MMO project is they are working on! Highly recommend HYPER!

TEK is worth a shot.

Stakehunter, how's your portfolio going?

My portfolio is going swimmingly...I love the discussion that has been going on. Sorry, i've been laying low - I got involve in Cryptostocks investing - too much  actually! I got burnt on a few stocks, and now my BTC is locked into other stocks. While they pay good dividends the liquidity isn't there, so I'm slowly drawing drawing down and only keeping the best.

So my attention is shifting back to coins, and to my surprise in the ~2 months there have been a lot of PoS interest - and coins.
Here's my current list:
Tekcoin - TEK
Hobonickels - HBN
Fluttercoin - FLT
Philosopherstone - PHS
Growthcoin - GRW
Bottlecaps - CAP
Diamond - DMD

TEK has done VERY well for me. I recommend it - it is amazing coin just to hold and watch the stake come in. Plus its value has jumped because there are only ~1 mil coins.
HBN is a cornerstone. Value is down, but it is stable and compounding nicely. I sold off too much months ago to get into cryptostocks and I'm still regretting it.
FLT, newcomer and stakes at a month, but I'm just hanging on for interest sake. Not a big holding,

The last three are "rebirths". Some devs got behind them and they all had new launches with fixed improved stake. So I'm dabbling. All of those have very low liquidity.

Nice to see you're back, hopefully you recover.

I'm waiting for the TEK price to correct and go back down so i get more cheap tek again! Made a mistake only buying 500 xD

How's Diamond? I am interested in getting some.

I can't believe TEK these days. Definitely one of my favorite coins at the moment.

What is Fluttercoin's interest? How does Flutter PoT works?
What is Diamond's interest?

Also, as a reminder for everyone, what StakeHunter said earlier (StakeHunter's pledge): ensure liquidity, sell 25% of your stake every months (at least for coins with low liquidity).

Also, I created a proof of stake list that you can modify: Proof-of-stake list (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ikUfhQXaWMe8BrfS8QpiO3X86xynoK0U6eLlWpE4wDk/edit)

I'm currently involved with 5% PoS monthly (paid daily) coin HYPER. They have already set up a Counterstrike server where people can get FREE HYPER for fragging bots and earning achievements in the game. Beyond this, the team is also setting up Minecraft servers and plugins, an online HYPER arcade that will feature many indie game developers and where people can earn small amounts of HYPER for playing, an old cult space MMO that should be live soon, as well as the main HYPER MMO project that is constantly being worked on.

Unlike with most coins, the HYPER premine is being used to set up all of the above projects and more. The team is very active and working day and night on delivering results. The vast majority of the PoS coins on this forum have very limited ecosystems and are for speculation only. HYPER is unique in that the coin will be embedded in a complex and growing ecosystem of gamers, traders and stakers.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=624651.0

DISCLOSURE: I am currently on the HYPER team as the manager and escrow for the core HYPER MMO Development fund. Being a Devcoin admin and the manager of the advertising revenue from Devcoin's open source wiki Devtome, I am both qualified for this role, and I can see the benefit in having some funds set aside to fund the first MMO in history to be built by a cryptocurrency!

Fluttercoin is NVCS @ 100% yearly currently (min of 5% yearly). But it has a 30 day stake time. However there's a good bit of liquidity on mintpal.
Diamond is 50% yearly, 30 day stake time.

Thanks. How does the PoT works for FLT?

Proof of Stake Investment - NVC/HBN/PHS/TEK/and more


Why you don't say a word about SIM? It
OR NEM as POI (Proof of INTEREST)?

trying to learn here, to get my stake, will i need to do anything else than open the wallet?
have seen some info about editing a conf file?
thnx for interesting stuff :-)

Don't know SIM...
But NEM is too much like NXT. I'm jumping on with any coin that distributes through IPO.

I've learned my lesson from Cryptostocks and I'm pulling most on my investments from there.

 

Nope just leave the wallet open.

24/7?
needs good security i asume :-)

Stake,

Is there a good ballpark as to what your cap should be with some of these coins?  In other words, is there a such thing as having too many coins in a particular coin?

Yes, but just a rough estimate and based upon your risk profile. Basically look at the market cap and the trade volume.
If you dump even 1 BTC into TEK/HBN/PHS/CAP/GRW/DMD you are going to swing the market.
TEK & HBN are strongest of the two so you will be able to get your money back easier. CAP is on the rise.

FLT has deeper pockets, but it has been on the downward slope, so beware. 

My rough guide is 1% of the current marketcap. So if HBN has 4.9 mil, you could easily swing/use 49 thousand. 

Just a note on the crop of new stake coins...or should I call them gimmicks
It seems every new coin and its brother has been launched with Stake with a min stake of a day or less. However...

NO COIN WITH STAKE <25% IS EVER WORTH BUYING JUST FOR STAKE.

Do the math: coins * (1+Yearly Stake %/365)^365

Yes there are coins with a stake period of under a day, but it is most likely that your stake will take longer because of the network so staking oce a day is conservative. If you do the compounding math, the 25% mark is where you actually start to see the benefits. So all those coins where stake is 10% or less compounding every 6 to 8 hours...at the end of the year you will have your coins plus that 10% or less.

NOT WORTH IT...Especially when the coin price fluctuates so much. So, buy into a coin if you think it will explode, but don't count on the stake to help you out.

If you want ~10% a year returns - invest in ETF and CEFs on the stock market. Far more credible, liquid, and safe comparably.
I recommend the following: NCV, EAD, IGD, FAM, HIX

All,

I am working on a short write-up concerning the "new generation" of stake coins.
Yes there are many that use stake as a gimmick, but there are a few that may be worth consideration.

The new breed has a lot more volume, but the old guard has stability...time will tell. More to follow. 

This isbperfect to hear, but can you also make a list of coins with +25% yearly stake? Thanks :)

What's it worth to you?  ;)

Seriously... I only invest in coins with 25%+, and I hold all of them that I know of. So the update should be all of them. Again the caveat being - that I know of. I do my research but there are A LOT of coins.

I do expect literary credit in any article with my info that appears your site though.  ;)

Ill make sure you get credit :)

Stakehunter I highly recommend considering adding HYPER to your list. The 5% monthly (60% annually) PoS coin has gone up 300% in the last 2 days and is trading steady (not just another pump).

HYPER is also getting over 1000 real human votes every 24 hours to get added to MintPal and once it gets to the top of the list and is added volume will explode. They've also recently resurrected an MMO strategy space game classic (that anyone can play now) and they are working on adding HYPER to the in-built free market exchange that already exists in the game, for players to trade resources and money with each other

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=624651.0

Very interesting thread!

One question I have though - what do you see happening to the coins when they hit their maximum count so that no more coins are available. I'm guessing that they can no longer claim to be PoS and can no longer be mined using PoW... so investors will rely on nothing more than values on the exchanges?

Good day fellow stake enthusiasts,

As promised I'm here to discuss the new crop of stake coins that have popped up over the last few months - and there are a lot of them. However, before I do that, I want discuss where we've come from…

Proof of stake, the long misunderstood and often maligned counterpart to proof of work. Proof of work - we all know it as mining - you get coins for securing the network by cracking crypto. It is expensive in terms of hardware and energy. Proof of stake - you get coins for holding coins in your wallet for a certain period of time. You secure the network by ensuring no one will hold the majority of the coins, and you're rewarded for it. Proof of stake - anyone with a wallet can do it, it is cheap, and energy efficient, but you don't paid as well as if you mine.

In my opinion Stake has A LOT of advantages over mining. Mostly because you have fine control over the money you're putting into crypto - no hardware, upkeep, etc - only coins. But that's me.

Stake began with Peercoin - a minimal percentage ~1% to reward people for holding a coin. After that Novacoin (NVC) came along and demonstrated the power of stake. It had 100% a year stake - if you held 100 coins, next year you would have 200 next year (not including compounding). That's amazing! And it developed controls for inflation by limiting the percentage based upon the coins being held for stake on the market.

These progenitors gave birth to a number of other coins that provided stake: TEKcoin, Bottlecaps, Hobonickels, Neocoin, Cosmoscoin, Galaxycoin, Diamond, Philosopherstone, and Growthcoin. However, getting the stake code right proved to be difficult, and for many of the coins listed stake simply didn't work. And as usually happens in crypto, crowds are fickle and coins are kicked to the side.

Of these coins only TEKcoin (TEK), Hobonickels (HBN), Philosopherstone (PHS), and Growthcoin (GRW) got stake right. And HBN and PHS were the strongest due to their active devs and community. TEK, even with its amazing stake was largely ignored due to lack of development and the appearance of newer scrypt coins.

For months I, and other stake lovers, touted holding on to NVC, HBN, PHS, and TEK. We saw, ups and downs and ups. We sold stake at the highs and compounded during the lows. With good stake coins, if you're willing to put the money down you can buy a golden goose.

Then suddenly the next generation of stake coins came along. Driven by the looming power bills of summer and the possibility of scrypt ASICs this new crop was all about "fast distribution" and "energy efficiency" (due to stake). The most famous are Blackcoin & Mintcoin. Blackcoin was eligble for stake after 8 hours. Mintcoin had stake that lowered from year to year. However, from a stake standpoint there was a large problem with each coin: their stake was 25% or less.

These coins didn't learn any lessons from peercoin. No one holds peercoin for stake because the price will swing too much and destroy any gains made from stake. All coins are volatile, likely to swing 5% or more in a day, and 20% is more likely. Holding coins for stake is risky business and if you're looking to make any returns the compensation should match the risk.

If you're going to hold coins for stake the coin should have a stake greater than 25%. If the coin has good devs and a decent community, it is possible that you will get a return on your investment. Another note about 25% - it is also the point where you can actually see the benefits of compounding interest.      

Of this 3rd generation of stake coins, only one was worth mentioning: Fluttercoin. It had a strong launch, a good developer, and it is stake is 100% based upon the Novacoin model of depreciation.  

Then, scrypt ASICs appeared on the scene - difficulty skyrockets, and this drives development of new coins. We get new algorithms Scrypt-n, X11, X13, and more.  And another coin fad gets thrown into the mix: anonymity. Now we get another set of coins with new algos focusing on new and wonderful anonymity features. And with the new coins, we get another set of coins that - because Blackcoin was in some ways successful - copy and paste its gimmick stake features. Again there are too many to mention: Vericoin, Cryptcoin, Cloakcoin, Cinnicoin, XC, and on and on. All are eligible for stake at one day or less, and all with stake less than 10%. Fellow stake lovers: DON'T DO IT! You'll never get your investment back.

However, with the new generation of coins we get a few hopefuls: Supercoin and Sync. Supercoin has anonymity features, a lot of volume, and for the first year 100% stake. Sync has the same dev as Voot, but Sync only launched with 1000 coins. Sync doesn't have the volume, but it does have 100% stake - for the life of the coin, and Sync claims to be adding anonymity features.

Also, Hyper was part of this generation and it does have 50% stake, however the coin has a lot of issues due to poor launch. The dev team holds a lot of pre-mine, which is all eligible for stake, so they drive the market, and I cannot recommend it.

But that isn't all stake lovers. There are a number of second generation coins that are being given a re-birth thanks to competent devs that are taking them over. Growthcoin (GRW) and Bottlecaps (CAP) are worthy of notice. CAP is now being managed by the dev of HBN. GRW offers 100% stake while CAP has 200%. Neither has a lot of volume, but even small portfolios could provide future returns.

Diamond has a new life as well, and the devs say there will be 50% stake. However, I have yet to verify this with my own wallet.    

Finally, there is Noblecoin - the coin with a noble heart. I like the concept of the coin, but it has been plagued with issues due to 51% attacks. However, it too will be seeing new life. Its devs are working on turning it into a stake coin, and I have faith that it will be one worth putting "on the list."

So, with the brief history behind us, where do I stand with my own list? What are the stake coins that I am holding?

TEKcoin - TEK - 40% monthly
Bottlecaps -CAP - 200% yearly, stake @ 15 days
Hobonickels - HBN - 100% yearly, stake @ 10 days
Growthcoin - GRW - 100% yearly, stake @ 5 days
Fluttercoin - FLT - 100% yearly, stake @ 30 days
Supercoin - SUPER - 100% yearly, stake @ 1 day
Sync - SYNC - 100% yearly, stake @ 1 day
Philosopherstones - PHS - 50% yearly, stake @ 5 days
Diamond - DMD - 50% yearly, stake @ 30 days - not verified
Novacoin - NVC - ~35% yearly, stake @ 30 days - small holding
Noblecoin - NOBL - at risk holding expecting stake

Everything else - not worth it! I'm not a day trader, and I'm not a pump and dumper. I don't know who will win the battle of algo, features, and popularity. I'll collect stake and hold BTC and wait until the dust settles.  

If you found this helpful, please consider donating BTC to help build my stake fund: 1PSQDbg8om94wnGRiWxW9UG7RRxFMygqN9

I LOVE YOU

I aim to please. :)
Please do post a link here when/if you post on cryptoarticles.

Will try to find a way to do that :)

I do agree that holding coins for stake is implicitly a risky business due to the nature of volatility in the crypto-currency scene being doubly compounded by the amount of time needed to create stake.

I am curious how you derived 25% as your set point. If you are willing, could you share your mathematical rigor behind this?

I agree completely about risk. That's why I've stated many times in my posts that this is a risky plan and only with money you can stand to lose.
But I do it.



See my previous post about compounding interest with the formula.

coins * (1+Yearly Stake %/period)^period

If you have stake at one month and you have 25% stake you get roughly ~27 coins. Not great, but better than 25... And anything lower will only give you the stake percentage. The higher the stake and the shorter the period the better the compounding.

I was more looking for how you derived that 25% stake overtakes the risk assumed by holding a PoS coin and selling at highs and staking at lows. You just gave me the effective interest rate of a nominal interest rate compounded n-thly.

Whenever I've looked at staking via a market perspective, I look at it as akin to a derivative pricing model so that's what my request was more geared towards. So if someone places bands at upper and lower options, I could take the partial derivative (i.e. kinda like in Black-Scholes fashion) of [δσ/δt-(1/(σ(T-t))][(r/σ^2)] where σ is compounded volatility, t is the starting time of staking, T is the time where stake is sold, and r is the given effective interest rate, and look for where the intersect between perceived risk and reward lies. When I've priced using "slower" models, I get stake at 15% being reasonable to overtake the assumed risk. For "faster" models, this drops slightly to 12%.

Could you expound on your methodology for showing that 25% is the point where risk and reward meet?

Hi!
been reading your thread on POS investment and have some questions.
do you have 1 wallet each coin, or split some over multiple wallets?
do you send all coins in 1 transaction, or split them in groups into wallet?
trying to build my own prtifolio based on your inputs and are in this for longterm.
hoping you have some time to share strategies, and provide more knowledge in this exiting topic! :-)
regards

I thought someone else might help, but I guess not...

On most, I only have one wallet for each coin. Encrypted, but unlocked in order to stake - as outlined on the hobonickels wiki.

I usually don't send all the coins when I'm collecting stake. It all depends upon the size of the stake and the coin block.
HBN I keep coins in 10K blocks
TEK 3K blocks

Speaking of those two HBN has really fallen recently and considering its stability (from a dev point of view) it should be considered a buy.

TEK has also fallen from its highs, but not as deeply as HBN.

Another POS coin you may not be aware of is Truckcoin (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=637785.0) that was released last month. Returns 5% every 9 days, or 200%/yr. Released with near zero publicity and going really cheap at the moment. I'm liking it as a pair trade with CAP that also goes 200% tomorrow only it's a lot cheaper and already staking.

I also agree on HBN and TEK, great time for someone to start building a position in these.

Thnx for reply :-)
hbn is one of my prioritys in pos.
how do you think cap will do now?
seems like the most pos holders have hbn,tek,phs as a base portifolio, i am buying some everyday from my mining income and plan to build a portifolio over the next months.
What other coins should be in the base portifolio, and what others would you consider as promising?
Maybe answear to this is to see what you are holding, mentioned somewhere :-)
what is the benefit to keep coins in blocks of the zise you mentioned? 10k for hbn, insted of multiple smaller.
Thnx for your effort to get more knowledge out on this!

With larger blocks you have a greater probability of staking earlier.

I have HBN, TEK, and PHS.
I think CAP will due well - go up, but its volume is still minimal.

But I also recommend: SUPER & SYNC.
Both have 100% PoS.

A note about SUPER though - it appears to be in a free fall - so you may want to wait to put money into it to see what happens.

My thought is to compound all until january and then start to take profits out of generated pos.
with compounding and continous input from mining farm for 6months, it should be selfsustaining by then?
my plans are longterm, and iknow its risky :-)
Thnx for your inputs :-)

I have been using using multi wallets and stakeforcharity(s4c) for quite a while now. It has been working very nicely.

http://i62.tinypic.com/vcx8k6.png

To test stakeforcharity you can just create a new wallet and send a percentage of your stake to that wallet and see how it acts. You can accumulate some coins there and then send them off to trade, or buy stuff.  You can INCREASE 2 positions at once automatically with even a small amount, since s4c only allows 50% of your reward to be sent.  :o

You can also use coin control to choose which blocks to send.

Keep up the good work here StakeHunter. I would invite everyone to also give my latest project HyperStake out. It isn't meant to be some profit making beast coin (although some might see it that way) it is meant to be something fun for the high stake rate community.  ANN thread is in my signature.

Also sad to see CAP getting so low again. There was a major whale that got the price so high to begin with though.

Tranz how did you get that dialog to pop up?

I would definitely look into HYP.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=678849.0

It will be fun to see how the coin performs.

I personally wonder how the coin count will compare to actual mining.
Of course it isn't investment. Just a fun look at code and dynamics.

Just click the staking icon (Green arrow pointing up)...

...At last the student gets a change to teach the master something  ;D

A note on SYNC...

The dev has decided to change the POS on the coin.
Now it will be 100% halving every month!!!
So in just a few months we will not have a good coin for POS.

When I found it I considered it a gem of a coin. Equal to the old guard. Now...it is nothing from a POS stand point - and I'm a little upset.

HYPER is still looking good and they are running a distribution so anyone can get earn some HYPER and start staking them at 5% monthly interest every day! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=695339

So, I had another thought. And call me crazy, but I'm going to throw it out there. What about a POS coin with demurrage.

The "problem" with POS coins: "inflation." Everyone wants high stake, but wants to control inflation. So we set a max coin cap, or we decrease the stake percentage over time to some eventual minimal inflation.

However, the attraction of the POS coin is that you can earn high %. But when that goes away the excitement is gone many seek greener pastures and newer coins with newer features.

That's where demurrage comes in, or negative stake (nstake). A coin could always offer high positive stake (pstake) because it will never suffer from inflation due to its nstake. The theory is that the nstake has a flag that is set when a number of coins is reached and increases to slow the pstake. Once a second coin point is reach nstake is increased above pstake to bring the coins down. It is a hysteresis effect to avoid market shock. There would be an ebb and flow around a soft coin cap chosen by the dev team.

Such a coin would have to have two stake ages computed: nstake age and pstake age. Nstake age would have to be faster than pstake age to hit every wallet - something like 6 hours. While pstake age would be longer: a day, 3 days, whatever.

In theory the coins would congregate to the clients that spend the most time staking. In other words the network would pay the nodes that do the most work for it by securing it.

Example coin:
POW coins: 0.5 mil
Minimum Coins: 1 mil
Maximum Coins: 2 mil
PStake: 100% @ 7 days
NStakeMax = 115%
NStake= ncoins/maxcoins * 100%
if(ncoins>0.7*max coins){
do{nstake= nstakemax}
while (ncoins>mincoins)
}

Assuming EVERYONE stakes - not likely, but a possibility
Year 0: 0.5 mil coins; nstake = 25% ; effective stake w/ compounding = 111%
Year 1: 1.05 mil coins; nstake = 53% ; effective stake w/ compounding = 60%
Year 2: 1.68 mil coins; nstake = 84% ; effective stake w/ compounding = 17%
Year 3: 1.44 mil coins; nstake = 115% ; effective stake w/ compounding = -15%
Year 4: 1.24 mil coins; nstake = 115% ; effective stake w/ compounding = -15%
Year 5: 1.06 mil coins; nstake = 115% ; effective stake w/ compounding = -15%
Year 6: 1.05 mil coins; nstake = 53% ; effective stake w/ compounding = 60%

That is only one example. You could change the nstake curve to increase the number of years a coin stakes with positive interest. And you could also increase the NStakeMax percentage to decrease the number of years of contraction - of course that may be more of a shock. 

Lots of variables to play with. If nothing else, it could be a fun experiment.

Would love an update. With tokyoghetto's journal locked, the high PoS discussion is a little light lately :-\

I agree, would also love an update as well

I reposted here
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=678849.msg8608033#msg8608033
We'll see how it will go.