Bitcoin Forum

As the title says, I firmly believe that Bitcoin bulls have something wrong with them. Now, I don't actually mean the insult. What I mean is that people who are hoping the price shoots up to $100,000 are morons.

They have no regard for the market cap

People who say that it'll shoot up to $100,000 have no concept of market caps and size. They seem to think that since a bubble happened two times, it will happen again.

You should be able to differentiate between a $1,000,000 marketcap and $1 trillion market cap. Most Bitcoiners are unable to do so. They believe in it rising to infinity and beyond because of previous movements.

That's not how the market works, dummies!

They're not concerned about actual usability

The last time Bitcoin shot up in price, any transaction cost $50 to do. A big speaking point for Bitcoin used to be that you could do small transactions for virtually no cost. This all changed once it shot up.

The ethos suddenly changed to being that Bitcoin should only be for large payments only. $1-2 payments shouldn't have any consideration.

When there are $50 fees, there will be less incentive to move money around, slowing down the Bitcoin economy. If there's no circulation and flow, how can Bitcoin be considered a currency? That leads me onto my next point...

Bitcoin is something speculators use to bet against other speculators

A high price is attractive for those in the game only. It doesn't help expand worldwide coverage. It's a turnoff, actually.

Who are the ones profiting from Bitcoin? It's the speculators.

When I look at Bitcoin from a practical point of view, I don't see $1 trillion worth of goods and services being passed through it. Russia and Australia have an economy of $1 trillion. Their total population can collectively only produce $1 trillion in value. What can Bitcoin do? Not even 1/50th of that.

If you have any "rebuttals", fire away.

You have made some valid points but regarding all bulls as retarded is on the extreme which is hasty generalization because not all bull believers are unreasonable to think like McAfee or anyone who would wake up and come with predictions without thinking of how exactly that will have to happen and the challenges that comes with such happening.

There are still reasonable bulls who just wanted a decent and gradual progressive movement in price necessitated by evidential increase in adoption.

Market cap is one of the most broken and redundant measures that there is. To put it politely and use your own eloquent language, you're retarded for thinking it matters.


You're confusing here the few with the many. Plenty of people understand that bitcoin needs a utility for it to continue to grow or else your 3rd point will remain true forever. Inevitably when you get so many people bullish on a technology and its potential you will get some who are only around for profit and don't understand the underlying tech.

When you're considering fees, there have already been advancements to try and prevent what happened in late 2017 from happening again, and there will continue to be so. With anything when there's an influx of new demand its hard to deliver. Scalability is always an issue but it's being worked on. The very fact fees got so high shows BTC is a success because it was driven by people using the coin.


Can't argue with that, that will always be the case and it is for every other currency. It's not a criticism of any merit, it is the same for FIAT currencies. But like those FIAT currencies, it is not bitcoin's only use.

it easy to be bull believers if we rich like McAfee   i think he hold a lot of bitcoin.

if he fail predict for the price he still rich but if he right he f*king rich.

Alright, let's put aside the popular notion that market cap means nothing(which may also be true btw) and let's try to speak using your language. You say that Bitcoin's market cap can't be $1 trillion because there are no goods and services worth of $1 trillion being passed through it. Yes, you are right for the time being, but don't forget that Bitcoin is still in its early phase of adoption. You could say the same about Apple 10 years ago when its market cap was $68 billion, and it is around $1 Trillion today. You may argue that Apple produces goods and services while Bitcoin produces nothing. Well, Bitcoin is a payment system some people find convenient to use, so it is a service in a way. Now, think of the situation when only 1% of the world population, at each time step, were using Bitcoin for payments. Since the global market cap is around $100 Trillion, we would have around $1 Trillion for Bitcoin. Considering that the supply of BTC is limited to under 20 million in the foreseeable future, we can expect the price of 1 Bitcoin to be over $50,000 in that case.

They are not retarted, they just do know where to enter or not. They are simply smart enough to know everything about trading.

Do you really think that the bulls believe in a 100K USD future bitcoin price?I don't think so.
They just spread optimisitc propaganda about bitcoin's bright future.Some people choose to believe in it,other people don't.By the way,this post is knda similar to another post here,talking about bitcoin supporters being morons.Bulls=retards,BTC supporters=morons.I guess we have trolls on this forum. ;D

Firstly is it really necessary to use derogatory language and demean countless people in the process? You're entitled to your opinion and most of it you presented quite well, but there's little need for some of the language.

As for the points, some of them are valid, they're true for a lot of people probably. But they're also a gross over-generalization. Most bulls don't believe a lot of what you said to be true and understand most of the points that you've made.

I do not believe that bitcoin reaches 100k USD very early, it will take a long time, and maybe it will never reach this value, but the price of 10k, 20k I believe!

It will happen when no one expects it to happen, which goes up for what happened last year as well. $20,000 would be something for 2020-2022 if you asked people when they expected it to happen.

Overall, I think that reaching $100,000 isn't that much of a problem--the problem is consolidating above it. Bitcoin has proven to struggle with every new high and I don't expect much to change in the future (if ever at all).

My only thing with Bitcoin maximalists is that everything outside Bitcoin is by definition shit. Sure, most coins are indeed shit and have no chance to survive, but a small number of coins do have that usability.

I think Monero is a coin with decent potential. It may be a niche product, but still, it's working. In the same way that applies to Ethereum.

Market cap surely matters, but at least we can safely say that bitcoin can reach the previous results if not set the brew ATH. Apart from that, transaction fee issues are supposed to be solved by the lightning network. And also, I disagree that high price is rather an obstacle on the way to mass adoption. I think that if bitcoin doesn't at least get close to previous records, the merchants will not accept it widely, because nobody wants to lose do much money. We need a slight upward trend and pretty high prices for people to be motivated to accept bitcoin.

You got a point in in your rant, but I don't think that it's good to generalize that bulls are retarded. It is indeed too high of hopes to see Bitcoin price to reach $100k, yet some are optimistic enough to believe that someday the price will shoot up. Not that it would reach $100 but at least it would surpass it's previous ATH of #20k.

I don't think it's just based on past performance but on the notion of exponentially increasing adoption. It's still known that significantly more money will be needed to sustain the price as it increases.


That's really an exaggeration of fees last year. $1-2 fees for quickly confirmed transactions yeah, but anyone paying more than that was doing so unnecessarily (or was using lots of inputs). Transaction batching and Segwit adoption have definitely improved things since then and Lightning transactions are extremely cheap and fast.

I never bought into the "cheap fees" selling point because that's not really part of Bitcoin's design. But micropayments can be a reality as the Lightning Network becomes more usable.

There's very little censorship of language on this forum, and calling an enormous group of people retarded is not the worst insult I've ever heard.  Not even in the top 1000.

OP, markets can get very irrational and what I think a lot of these bulls are hoping for is another stretch of severe irrationality, i.e., bitcoin going to $100k or more.  I mean hell, bitcoin already reached $20k at its peak, so it's not outside the realm of possibility that it could hit $100k one day.  If your definition of retarded is being so hopeful that bitcoin is going to make you 100x your original investment that you can't realistically see all the barriers and problems and you invest more money than you can afford to lose, then I'd agree with that definition.

People like Peter Schiff drive me nuts and also would fall into the category of being retarded, even though he's extremely successful.  The problem with him and others like him is that they're constantly telling people to buy! buy! buy!, whether it's gold or bitcoin.  And when any market has just been through an extreme bull run, like gold in 2011 or bitcoin in 2017, there are going to be people losing their heads worrying that they might be losing out on an opportunity that just...maybe...the market is only cooling down a bit.  

What happens is that they end up with the result of every bubble (pop!), and they buy in right when the price is falling (or is staying flat).  I probably wouldn't insult them with epithets, but they're definitely greedy and blinded by the fear of missing out.  Nice provocative thread you got going here, OP.

I used to think that bitcoin could never get to $1 million because of fees, but then I started understanding things like you mentioned, plus the possibility of doing OTC transactions as well.

I actually agree that permabulls are bad at thinking.
And yes, btc is purely speculative unlike adoption-based cryptos.
But making money on it speculating is not impossible.
TA works because people believe in it - a self fulfilling prophecy. You just gotta know when to be a bull and when to be a bear. And never be a pig  ;D

You are proven wrong already. Bitcoin has processed over $2 trillion worth of transactions this year. Most of it is likely due to speculation, but still, the network has processed that much in value, which is the most important metric to focus on. I expect this trend to continue and we'll likely break $3 trillion next year, or the year after.

LN will eventually process a fair amount of transactional value as well, so we can look forward to even more growth in that field. We already have wiped PayPal & Co off the table in terms of transactional value, and remember that we're still just starting up.

I really like this answer, a short and pointly presented error and finally a beautiful strike about LN and PayPal.
I would just only add, that it is still just an experiment!  ;D

Let's take these one by one. First of all, 1 trillion dollar market cap is not something unheard of, it has done that previously and it is still quite possible and even at a 100 thousand dollars the marketcap is still lower than nasdaq and nyse combined, that is just two american stock markets that pass bitcoin marketcap even if it was 100 thousand dollars per bitcoin and we have hundreds of stock markets all around the world whereas bitcoin is a global thing not an american thing. Hence, it is possible to reach those levels, definitely not easy and definitely not anytime soon but theoretically possible.

Second thing is, the 50 dollar transaction thing, last time bitcoin went up we were not prepared for such a rise and right now with segwit and lightning network we are more than ready for something like that, all exchanges and wallets are ready to have bitcoin at 100 thousand dollars and still capable of paying low amounts of fee for transactions.

Speculators part is definitely true, I have nothing against that, if it was something fundamentally disturbing the market we wouldn't talk about the price to begin with but since we focus on the price that means speculation is not only a whale thing but its for everyone. So, you are right on that one.

Although all of those things matter I know that it would somehow reach those goals and would make the market grow instantly when all people will come back to the market.

I believe that we will see another bull market when LN is fully functioning.

Generalizations are stupid.

It'd be hard to argue that whoever bought BTC for pennies in 2010 made a bad deal with it at U$ 3000 right now!

Heck, when BTC hit U$ 100 I thought it was insane. Now it's still 30X above 100.

It's people who just recently got into the market that's all fuzzy about it. Though there's reason, especially if you got in close to the ath lol. Looking at the bigger picture, it's still promising if only you can see the long run probabilities.

There's one small thing that stands out to me.

Perma bulls have been right.

Time after time.

The people who start threads like this have been wrong every.single.time. There are hundreds of them littered throughout this forum dating from 2011 or before.

Those who called for $1/10/100/1000/10000 were all dissed in pinhead threads too.

There are certain patterns I see in this forum repeating over and over and over again.

One of them is scale. For some reason people can't understand that price rises alongside the numbers of people. In some ways it was harder to go from 0-$10 than it might be to go from $10,000 - $100,000. It signifies momentum. Without it nothing happens. When it gathers pace nothing can stop it.

Unlike any other 'investment' before it every bubble burst so far ends up with more people involved than were here when it started. Nothing else can do that as nothing else has risen literally from zero.

Every move from now on will keep gathering ever greater numbers of people until it's saturated and then the epic calls will be redundant.



You clearly don't understand market cap either. If someone spent $5 billion tomorrow between 0900 and 1200 GMT with the coins available on exchanges I expect the market cap would be $5-10 trillion by lunch time simply because the supply of coins would dry up.

If you just get in when BTC price is on its ATH then you would definitely have this kind of line or thinking.I cant blame but
if we do really dig deeper we would really able to say that we are on a good range.Imagine on how far we have reached when bitcoins
price is still not big at all.

In the past it would have been bat-shit crazy to ever believe bitcoin would reach $100. So...  ???

If Lightning adoption picks up in a big way, there will be supply forces that drive prices up too.

Lightning incentivizes people to lock up BTC (to use in channels or collect Lightning node fees). That could increase demand, but more notably it could decrease available supply as people shift coins into Lightning and away from exchanges.

There is also nothing to be shamed about being optimistic. I know price looks bad and none of us knows what will happen in crypto world nor in real world however being optimistic is still a great thing to have. What should people think  ?

"We are all going to die anyway and we can't afford to wait until bitcoin goes up, lets sell it and just spend it before we die" or something ? That is not how economy works, you need to invest and hope for the best and even if you can't reach to a point where it makes you rich, just hope that it will make your kids rich one day.

The saying goes "A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in", if you can just try to make crypto a bit better instead of shaming the bulls, we might have a chance to have alternative economy parallel to the current one and give our kids a better world for the future.

but sometimes we are traumatized after experiencing bad things like this throughout 2018. at the beginning of the year many were investing, but their expectations failed, and regrets occurred. many of them can't wait for the time to arrive

If the barometer for what is right and what is not is whether or not someone has done worse at any point in life then I don't want to be around for that. I agree there's been worse said and that the forum isn't censored, therefore individuals should shoulder the responsibility themselves to be better, not better than others, but better than their former selves.

today is bull run?

I don't think the Bulls are slow. It's just not ready. If the bull market really comes, it will rise very quickly. The next day, the world's media will inform the price of Bitcoin. This is the real bull market, but now there is no arrival.

You cannot just link a high price with high transaction fees, if you do not consider the changes that has occurred since this has happened before. We have had a significant increase in SegWit adoption and also the Lightning Network since the fees were that high before and this will help to prevent a reoccurrence of such a scenario in the future.

Also, most people did not moan about the high fees, because they received a counter reward of almost 800% in profit on their investment. <OK, some did not complain>  ;D 

It is not a bad idea to believe in bull run but we need to be realistic in our expectations on the world of cryptocurrencies. People would always make speculative predictions on the crypto market but we need to act responsibly as to the kind of stories that we believe in.

Today is not bull run. Even though we see market to be green today and mostly coins over 10% pumped but still it is very early to say that bull market has started. For the last 5 weeks, bear market dominated and only this week we are seeing some reversal movements.

Bulls are retarded but the crypto market has been on the rise for 4 days in a row now ? How can you explain that ?
I know prices fluctuate and maybe tomorrow it will go down or it will continue going up but in the end this is crypto and prices will never stay low for too long, it will eventually get up.

We are talking about a century worth investment here, this is not just an investment you do for yourself but you do it for your children and their children and who knows maybe even their children. So, you may not trust bitcoin to be going high today or tomorrow or even in 2019 but believe me that in 2076 bitcoin will worth much more than today. That is the type of thing we are trying to build here, this is the alternative for fiat currencies and you can't achieve that in single day.

The points you raised which I italicize are the salient point most bitcoin businessmen don't seem to know and are thinking that the predictions of price are just out of the blues. When Bitcoin becomes the world's most preferred payment system, I wonder what the value will be then. Which is why I prefer mass adoption now that expecting price high.

Bitcoin price already take bull run in past 3 days and i am believe it will continue and reach $6000. This market have big potential and i think market cap can reach trillion dollar market cap because big investment institution already in market.

looking to step by step first  at 5k.

The truth is that, but this is a potential market. why? because it is not covered by law. That is why we humans want to make money from these markets. No longer tax, no longer bound by the rules. Simply buy and sell.
That is the way that many investors want. So I have no objection about how the market works.

first the price of bitcoin was $ 15000 + and they might think that every year the price of bitcoin will always go up but in fact the price of bitcoin this year really collapsed,
I think maybe they think the price of bitcoin is $ 100,000 in the next 10 to 20 years

right not market turn to red again.

BTC lower than 4k

A lot of persons making projections andspeculations about the bitcoin bull run have lost their analytical prowess as the outcome value has shocked them till date and they have not been able to place where they went wrong. The points you have highlighted are valid and realistic. I do hope a lot will now try to understand and just stop clamouring for a bull run without a justified reason.

 Very good point, it tells a lot. Yes, i agree with you that,  there are people whom had the burning desires to see the Bitcoin price goes up beyond which was on the market as posted. They have a very limited knowledge to understand what is the Crypto Currency Market.  We can read some of their coments gave only interest on the price value of Bitcoin. Anyway..goodluck guys.

Are these the same bulls that made about 35% profits in just last week ?
I mean because if the retarded bulls made 35% profit in a week, I would like to be retarded as well.

As you can see for each point of view there is a point of view that is just contrary. You can say that bulls made 35% profit in the past week which is the most recent movement and that means bulls are right, you can say we have lost over 80% of our value in the past year alone which means bears are right, we can say we have made %1000+ profits in the past 3 years which means bulls are right.

No matter how you look at it both points are still valid, there is no need to name call anyone because of what they believe. There is no way you can be right on someone else thought process, doesn't matter what you believe because both cases are solid.

This is just temporary because there a lot of sell orders. Obviously those who have bought at 3200$ they would surely be selling at 4000$ but overall the market sentiment is positive and i feel market will be in recovery mode from now onward.

We can say about any pyramid scheme that is has risen literally from zero, but what differs Bitcoin from them is that none of them can survive a bubble burst. When a pyramid scheme starts crumbling down nothing can stop it from total collapse, while Bitcoin has proven many times already that no bubble burst can kill it. And, as you rightly pointed out, the adopting only rises each time. That's why I think that until we reach a high level of adoption, from which we are far at the moment, every ATH will be repeated and surpassed eventually.

Be patient to deal with the pyramids that occur in bitcoin, bitcoin has an uncertain movement and this always happens, there will be a chance that the pyramid will be on top and many will throw it away, because of the good opportunity at that time.

I’m sorry to say this. But that’s what makes this to be interesting. That’s the risk we are talking about and the volatility. Without the price being pumped and dumped you wouldn’t be able to make any profit at all from this. Lets assume that this market is stable and there is no increase or decrease when you invest and it is also being used just as a way of making payments  then nobody would be interested in it, cause there are already lots of payments system available.

Cryptocurrency is an investment and this is how it’s meant to be. But, sometimes we need to be more patient so that the actual powerful bull will come into action. If we are in hurry then we may need to book losses and to time.

how can you say that while the bull run has not happened, at the end of this year a bull run will probably never happen because cryptocurrency enthusiasts are not too much and it is difficult to make the price of bitcoin again expensive.

No, it's meant to be a peer-to-peer electronic cash system without the weaknesses of the trust based model. Some people see Bitcoin as a good investment, because if it replaces all the existing payment systems the price of 1 BTC can be around $4 million, and if it replaces only 1% of those systems(which is very likely to happen), the price of 1 BTC can be around $40,000. So, I don't blame people who see Bitcoin as a promising investment when it's price is under $10,000, but above all it's a payment system where no trusted third party is needed.

I agreed with you, Bitcoin must be used as currency in order to circulate the price and have a better movement when we make transactions on this technology not only by holding. But yes, we don't blame those holders that keep holding on their crypto asset and Bitcoin for a while and waiting when the price growing up and have profit. But people think bitcoin is a promising asset, not a digital currency that used in paying across the borders.

You're wrong. If all people who bought at  lower prices were ready to sell when they go up by 30% there would have to be more buyers at every price level. The same number of buyers at higher prices would only stop it from falling down for a while but there would have to be much more to push the price to 5000 and then a lot more for 6000. The market doesn't work like that.
People sell to take some fiat off their profits the market and buy back. The same people remain in the game.

You do have a good point, but may looking from different point of view I will start by asking if you know what really brought a lot of people into Bitcoin (cryptocurrency)? It’s the volatility, and that includes the bulls drawing the price up and down, that’s why you see a lot of people taking interest, if not for all that you wouldn’t be seeing people that are interested in cryptocurrency.

A good opportunity is ahead in front of us and those who had being buying during the dips would have already made 1000$ in few days only as btc has moved 4200$ and before one year one could have easily made money and thus in future as well market looks bright and upward movement may continue.

that's right, there must be a lot of process to reach that price, but to reach 10k or 20k is easy because at the previous record, bitcoin has already achieved it

In general, I agree with your statement. Bitcoin, most likely, will never rise in price to one hundred thousand dollars. This is just unreal. We see what happened to the market when Bitcoin rose only to $ 20,000. The cryptocurrency market is in decline for a whole year. And the holders of cryptocurrency will get smarter. They will no longer believe in the constant growth of Bitcoin in the price and as soon as it starts to rise sharply in price, they will drop some of their Bitcoins. Thus, his course will go down. The cryptocurrency market will become more mature and will not allow such high price spikes.

Lucky for those who take the risk buying when the value went down below 4k$ as they are now is a good position and sure profits if they will not hold and sell it out, really matters on how you make your entry, bulls will comes up for those who will wait and believes that investors will support this business and time will come that traders will not be afraid with how whales will work out inside the market.

Well everyone of us have a different perspective on Bitcoin prediction, well, we have different guesses on market movement but the still unpredictable market and time can tell this. Just like what happens now, there's a lot of rumor that it will hit at the bottom price at 2.5k dollars but it doesn't happen besides for now the price show's progress grow. Lucky for those people invested last month because I'm sure they earned now profit.

for sure many people buy last dip and now they are enjoying thier gains but the only problem is that it wont take too long for the bull to last because im pretty sure that most investors are now selling thier coins but that is normal because it does actually happen in the crypto business . we cant call the bulls retarted because they are inocent .  what is the one here are the whales because they are making us confuse and loose because they will oftenly manipulate this market .

The price will rocket to the sky as is speculated. The bulls are not retarded they are helping the price but for all of us it is important to hold our coins. If we will hold then they will invest more money and the price will start to rise and so many other people will come to invest in it.

Market is over $4k again. The moment people start to critize and say bad things about bulls the market shows them how wrong they are. Look at the altcoins as well there are multiple ones with 10%+ profits too. As you can see bitcoin is not the only crypto out there and even though bitcoin is going up there are others that are going up even faster.

Look at ethereum, the coin that was about 80 dollars just near time ago and right now it is about 150 dollars, it is close to a x2 gain from just last week. Hence, bulls are not retarded, they are just more patient compared to bears. Bears run around screaming the end of the world whereas bulls knows that bitcoin and crypto is here to stay and no matter how much the prices go down it will always recover and we will always make our profits.

It might happen again and again but the cycle keep repeating with everytime the bottom level was reaching more then the previous one so it means the prices gradually increases from low,if you know how to play with the speculation then you can make some money out of it.

Studying the market volume that occurs then we can judge that this is a pump that will continue to provide positive values.
 Many current market conditions miss him so this is the beginning of the expected bull.

we all hope that way, where the market returns and positive news continues to flow. so investors will arrive again because their trust is gradually recovering, and that means the market's passion returns

there are so many who want a bull market to happen but you have to know that a bull market is still difficult to occur and that there is no good news that it also has a difficult effect making bull markets happen.

It is easy to see who has sold and who is holding with these type of topics. For example if you want bitcoin to fall and if you think bitcoin will fall than obviously you purchased at a wrong time and SOLD your coins and now hoping that it doesn't go back up. Because, if it goes back up higher than what you sold you will realize you did a big mistake and should have hold it instead.

On the other side we have people who have bought at a wrong price and now hoping that price would go up and holding and saying stuff like "bull is coming" and all that. Because, if the price keeps falling you know you did a big mistake by holding. Anytime you see a topic titled "bitcoin is going up" or "bitcoin is going down" you know what that persons situation is by just the title name.

Bitcoin is decentralized and prices are affected by market conditions, and I think the market can't reach 100k, and I think the market reaches 20k so many holders will sell it.

In other words, the market is only good for those who have a technical analysis. I wasn't saying this that those who don't have doesn't have a chance in the market but my point is that the probability is higher to those who have a TA than to those who don't have. But, there are people too that are lucky enough to make a good profit in the market.

Buying at the wrong price isn't really a problem as long as you haven't gone all in. It all comes down to wisely distributing your entry points, regardless of the sentiment. Even if you bought near the all time high last year, you for sure will have some money aside that you can put into the market to tank your break even point from $18,000'ish levels to $8000'ish levels, and the more you buy in at current levels the lower your average will be.

I honestly am past the stage where I feel sorry for people. If you don't utilize the current prices in your advantage you are just a sucker. On top that, if you think you'll reach a point at which you dump your coins in panic if the price reaches X level on the lower side, why wait? Sell right now.

It is true, the current market price seems to still be at a price of $3700, but prices may drop to $2500, because now prices cannot be called the lowest price, because prices still have not shown significant stability, but the current price shows a decline .

Everyone reading this thread should remember it if/when bitcoin price crosses $100k, and every single one of us will/would know that the true retard is Techius and all those who have said how impossible a 6 figure bitcoin is.
We shall see who the real retards are.

This moment, bitcoin price gets pump higher, and the trend is up, but I am not sure if it's really up or it will get down to make a correction for the price. But in many exchanges, bitcoin price is on the green area, and we can hope we can make another profit from yesterday. We need to make sure by analyzing more in-depth about the trend so we can find a reasonable price to sell although we cannot get the accurate price to predict the highest rate but at least, we still make a profit this time.

In my opinion. everyone can expect the price of bitcoin to soar. and we all want it to happen. however, we cannot predict the price of crypto currencies and we must be realistic in looking at market conditions. so we will not be trapped in determining when to sell or buy assets. and we don't have to wait for high prices.

All of us are expecting it to soar, money would be easy if that will happen.
However, let's accept that fact that the market does not only move one way, sometimes it goes up and sometimes it goes down.
That's why volatility is high in crypto, and when it's high the risk is also high, and it's always unpredictable.

What we see now, the market does give a positive response to bitcoin and altcoin with rising values. But this increase is limited to the pump, not the expected bull, this is what happened. We are still waiting even though there are no signs of bull.

I would say that the chances are equal for both parties. The so called "Technical Analysis" has been criticized by some members of this forum quite a bit, and I personally think that they have a point. The thing is that various analysts are right in some cases and wrong in others, and you can't name a single one who is right always, or, at least, is right in 90 percent of cases. It means that the approach can hardly be called a scientific one.

It cannot be predicted exactly but this low price still can be one of the targets for buying and investing by various people and not only in certain places/countries. The market is very easily influenced by various things and still has a high chance to moving better.

Well were most of them get it all wrong is the fact that they forget to consider the place of volatility in the whole crypto market and at that state a wrong speculation about the bitcoin price. Stability is all bitcoin need in other to get a wide spread adoption by the general public cause an all high rise may lead to a bubble getting boosted again and at any time.so that always scared investors.

The market was influenced by whales and some known investment, once circulation is stopped automatically market will collapse so everything is our understanding capability. If we have good circulation in continuously it will be moving forward simultaneously, now have brought exposure in crypto platform so we could travel the any situation.

Agree with you . Everything its depend of bitcoin prices and anything can be happen on crypto . even bitcoin is becoming excited because of the price like this. this is what they really want. but not when prices fall. but the possibility of a moment like this they should have realized before.

Yes, right, because investing is not a quick way to make a profit, it takes years. So in the current case the price of Bitcoin is down, so we can buy and hold for at least one year. Because Bitcoin takes 4 years to see prices touch the moon.

While the OP may have some salient and valid points he sounded like an all-knowing demi god with that familiar arrogant stench. His reference to all bull believers as morons is overboard and that throws up that question of "how much worth of Bitcoin does he even have?" to think he is above that insult he lashed out. Harsh words as the OP has used is uncalled for in a community that aspires for the good of the industry.

You are right how could the people expect bull run all of them are thinking about this and just want to earn in.cryptocurrency in their trading activities? They are just telling everyone to hold and let them do the trading so that they can earn better than the one that is only holding crypto.

Let the man speak up for his words, not all of them have the same thoughts as OP and he has some points on that. If you come to think about it, about of those prediction geniuses out there that think too much away from the box. You will be amaze of how they managed to make up all those thinks and later on you will just going to laugh at them because they are way too far from the future.

I appreciate the fact that you're able to point out some interesting fact on the things surrounding bitcoin. I'm really touched with this short post of yours and enlightened. Hopefully others can blend with this also.

Bulls are retarded? I don't think so maybe that is a part of crypto and blockchain technology that can manipulate the market with whales and hopefully they tired of doing that. Helping each other and holding bitcoins as much as we can that probably contribute the market to make a bull run again and avoid panic selling.

People are retarded because they are the one who make the bull run, lol.
You are right, it's manipulated from the start so the volume keep rising and those new investors who think this is not gonna go down
anymore, they put their money thinking they can make easy and fast return, but they did not realize that correction can happen anytime.

I don't think they will be tired of doing that, but with the increasing number of different investors it will make them difficult to manipulate the market, and after that they make news a panic

Could happen they know however unlikely, or even crazy such an event would be, and by no stretch believe it themselves. Instead, they simply want to use it to promote their coins. Trying to profit from people buying after them as the prices are pushed upwards.

It's not just bulls or bears, it's about believing in a particular future.
Satoshi's vision was above all that of a world free from the arrogance of the banks, the invasion of the state, the economic frontiers.
This is independent of the bicoin listing.
If we can really create this world, and believe it, value itself becomes irrelevant.

I think that the delayed reaction to market correction does not mean that bulls are retarded. There is still a very high risk that the bottom has not been found and prices may go down even for a few weeks.

in essence, bitcoin does not yet have functional value for goods or services, and not even bitcoin is used for payment. it only takes place in the market, where people buy then hold back to get profit. This is quite reasonable, and I agree with you that bitcoin will be difficult to increase its value if it continues to survive like this. this is the same as the same mistake that continues to be repeated and hopes for a significant increase.

It might be true, but I hope that the bottom price was already found in the December 2018-February 2019 so we all only need to wait the bull comes. But it's the only prediction that could get wrong because I don't know when it's happening, and I think other people don't know too. We could only enjoy the ride and make a buy and sell if necessary.

right, I hope that is true, where the lowest price has been reached and just waiting for the right time to sell. at least predictions from experienced people will be more useful especially building our psychology to remain patient

some time ago there was very much bad news and fraud that occurred in the world of bitcoin so that many traders panicked and preferred to sell their assets to secure their assets but now I'm sure in the course of 2020 the price of bitcoin will be very expensive.

Before anything else we had our own opinion or giving any speculation about what we want to say.
You know what, no offense okay. Bulls are not retarded, for what is happening now in the market for me was just a normal thing.
Isn't hard to understand that bitcoin is volatile, that's why it called unpredictable which is there is no fix amount of price to all
crypto and bitcoin. I think you're reason was the one who is retarded dude.

I agree with some opinions regarding market capitalization and speculators. But there is a prediction made by some speculators that are very reasonable and acceptable. I do not side with anyone and do not position myself anywhere. Indeed, I roasted people who were in a circle and hoped that bitcoin could achieve fantastic prices that were a fool because they did not see the facts from the crypto market at all.

Quite an interesting situation. Many people see in cryptocurrencies only a way of earning and not its direct purpose. And to think that the bubbles will always inflate very silly. As for capitalization, you are certainly right, but do not forget about the "demand / supply".

yes it was near impossible to send bitcoins back in december 2017 and jan 2018, the fees was enormous. But many things have happen since, the Lightning network are still growing and it should be able to keep the transactions fees down next time we get to a bull run. I agree that a $100.000 bitcoins are far away, but it is possible that we will see that price in the future.

That was bad for them if they sold their bitcoin because of panic because they will be disappointed when they know bitcoin price can increase higher. But maybe their decision to sell the bitcoin at that time was good because now, they can buy bitcoin at a low price and maybe they can get much bitcoin depends on the last year.

Bull runs is sure to commence, thou there are speculations that are unrealistic, but base on past market trend of BTC you can be sure the bull run of BTC  is ascertain, the bull runs rate cannot be calculated, the long bear market trend is discouraging but we must keep Holding with high expectation.

In a market place there's always the sepculator who specultes about price.. I find it difficult to believe bitcoin hitting such ridiculous price but I am certain that the bulls are not retarded.

hope that good news like etf and bakkt will be held soon, of course this can realize all of our hopes as you have explained. besides that we must keep in order not to panic against all market conditions

There are so many unreal predictions and speculations been reported on a daily basis on bitcoin future prices,most are absolutely unfeasible and should be ignored totally,before one can speculatively predict the market,you need to put a lot of things into consideration,and if that is done such high targets wouldn't even come up in the first place

It makes no sense to call one position retarded. I mean acting as if bitcoin can't be going up in any time is really stupid. Bitcoin could definitely go lower than this that is correct or bitcoin could stay around the same price (between three thousand dollars and four thousand dollars).

However, this doesn't mean bitcoin can't go to 6+ thousand dollars neither. It could definitely go low , stay same and go up, none of these options are impossible and anyone that thinks any of these three options to happen is not retarded. Bulls are not retarded, bears are not retarded, stagnant (what do we call if it is the same price, like goes down bear goes up bull, whats stays around same?). That is why lets not call each other retards and just try to work together for a better future.

everything you say is true, the bulls will indeed be difficult to come and still fall asleep. just focus on market cap is not enough. perhaps more to the economic function of coin coins in the market will be more effective.

Speculations are only a guide, if you believe on it and it happens they you are lucky. As for me i dont really just believe i only believe if there is a proof and if the person who are spreading it are trustworthy. Better to believe someone who already have an experience than doing it on your own. However, sometimes you just need to ride the train specially in alt coins.

It is not wise to expect unrealistic bull runs from BTC, This only takes place in the gambling and casino industry, BTC price is base on the law of demand and supply and also it use as a currency, expecting it to pump to $100,000 is an unrealistic speculation, without a basis to back it up.

the some points of you are always been considered by me because the worth and the development of the economy was reduced so it can be leads to a huge drop but the half mind will say it may be possible to have the chance again that's why I am holding now.

why not ? the expectation of a bull run can actually boost our confident to invest and hodl more because in our minds we think that we can earn huge income if the bull run finally occurs  . also , there is no bulls on gambling and casino industry  , bulls are only present in the crypto market  .


they have a basis to back that statement , you know it and i know it  but 100k usd is too exagerated though its possible to occur in the future  .

We all understand why bitcoin is falling. Because there is no rush of fresh blood due to speculation. An ordinary person will not buy Bitcoin when he is not sure about a stable price.

This is just temporary situation so I don’t think it is that noticeable, if price is down we should use our skills and obtain good profit even at this low price, I know in market fresher are not as much we really want them to be but I am sure very soon it will be adopted at high scale and then there will be low availability but higher demand.

I'm sure it's just that it's not bull time yet. Although bitcoin correction and continues for more than 400 days and is the longest of all that we have seen I am sure that at the end of 2019 we will gradually see the growth of bitcoin to new heights.
And the reason for this is one of the most important is the Halving in 2020 and the increase in the complexity of production. In this regard, miners will spend even more on mining and will not sell at a loss.

I will not deny your statement because everything you disclose above is truly real and is a statement in accordance with the data and analysis. For people who have long been in the world of investment or trading market capitalization is the main thing that must be considered because market capitalization has a large influence on the price movement of an asset in the market.

Not exactly infinity but it seems most people do expect it to rise up to the 100k level, albeit in a more gradual ascent. Even at that price it's still divisible enough.


Depends on the type of person. The speculation is what attracted many people.

right, use the current opportunity to seek profits later. by looking at prices like now, of course you can answer what must be done. and to do so don't hesitate, trusting yourself will be better

Well the deflation will eventually slow down in the future but I doubt Bitcoin will ever stop deflating if allowed to deflate naturally.

It should slow down once most  people on earth begin to use Bitcoin but volatility and deflation aren't going to stop. This is common sense

 Trillions of dollars is very realistic if you can get billions people on Bitcoin.

You are right but there is always nothing wrong with that thinking. For me it is even good to boost the usage of bitcoin to go up. It is for certain that people are not that morons as you claimed, they are humans who could think well enough to see that these things may not happen today or the next years but just a possibility though quite vague. If we do not have such thinking then expect that you will never see hope because you might be thinking too negative about things. "It was never wrong to dream for as long as you would be awake to see the truth". It is fun isn't it?

And there would always be speculations in the crypto world, like u have mentioned this only acts as a guide.
But, these speculations have helped a lot especially in making decisions as per when to buy or sell sometimes. But, this is not to say that all speculations are always right.

I also I do not support the idea of when its coming from someone experienced because cryptocurrency does not work with experience and we have seen instances where speculations made by so called experts have derailed.

What would you call a bull run from below thousand dollars to twenty thousand dollars in a span of few months, it is an unrealistic bull run that we have not seen in any other financial platform, with the limited number of coins in existence it is not an unrealistic speculation to have a price valuation of $100000 in the future.

You really do not need a billion people to invest to get a trillion dollar valuation in bitcoin, once we see financial institutions pumping in money in this platform we will see those valuations and with regulations in the sector coming up i am certain that we will see them investing in it in the future.

The rising price trend has become increasingly apparent because the price has gone down for too long. The market is always waiting for price changes as desired by the crypto owner, and that happens because of many transactions.
Characteristics of the price move up is the crowded crypto sale and purchase transactions, which is dominated by traders who throw coins that they have so that there is supply and demand.

now we can see candles verging almost every day, and slow but sure movements, will restore investors' confidence to return to cryptocurrency, I think they are just waiting for the moment

That's what the investors want, nobody wants an asset to stay static, developers are working hard to create values for crypto currency and yes the prices are brought out high by hype and speculators, but unrealistic or manipulated market movements are too likely when there's money involved, that's not changing when traders could be done collectively over the world

We cannot stop manipulation for now, those who have power will abuse the market, and hence it results to a more volatile price.
However, since this market is still at its early stage, there's still more chance that it will stabilize in the future and to avoid risk of losing money, we should not go against the market, we should play it safer using a  HODL strategy as this works consistently especially when holding popular coins.

Nah. At best i think we'll just continue with the slow movement up. No  rapid bull runs to satisfy the majority of crypto enthusiasts. The bulls and whales are playing with us little guys.

I do not think that bulls are retarded, neither bears. I think that, if you are bull, you could make money even in bear market, but you need really good strategy and good risk management to do so. Also, I think that it is not good to be perma bull nor perma bear, because they will be wrong at one point for sure.