Bulls are Retarded

[Techius]

As the title says, I firmly believe that Bitcoin bulls have something wrong with them. Now, I don't actually mean the insult. What I mean is that people who are hoping the price shoots up to $100,000 are morons.

They have no regard for the market cap

People who say that it'll shoot up to $100,000 have no concept of market caps and size. They seem to think that since a bubble happened two times, it will happen again.

You should be able to differentiate between a $1,000,000 marketcap and $1 trillion market cap. Most Bitcoiners are unable to do so. They believe in it rising to infinity and beyond because of previous movements.

That's not how the market works, dummies!

They're not concerned about actual usability

The last time Bitcoin shot up in price, any transaction cost $50 to do. A big speaking point for Bitcoin used to be that you could do small transactions for virtually no cost. This all changed once it shot up.

The ethos suddenly changed to being that Bitcoin should only be for large payments only. $1-2 payments shouldn't have any consideration.

When there are $50 fees, there will be less incentive to move money around, slowing down the Bitcoin economy. If there's no circulation and flow, how can Bitcoin be considered a currency? That leads me onto my next point...

Bitcoin is something speculators use to bet against other speculators

A high price is attractive for those in the game only. It doesn't help expand worldwide coverage. It's a turnoff, actually.

Who are the ones profiting from Bitcoin? It's the speculators.

When I look at Bitcoin from a practical point of view, I don't see $1 trillion worth of goods and services being passed through it. Russia and Australia have an economy of $1 trillion. Their total population can collectively only produce $1 trillion in value. What can Bitcoin do? Not even 1/50th of that.

If you have any "rebuttals", fire away.

[1715281991]

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[olubams]

You have made some valid points but regarding all bulls as retarded is on the extreme which is hasty generalization because not all bull believers are unreasonable to think like McAfee or anyone who would wake up and come with predictions without thinking of how exactly that will have to happen and the challenges that comes with such happening.

There are still reasonable bulls who just wanted a decent and gradual progressive movement in price necessitated by evidential increase in adoption.

[eminemcookie]

They have no regard for the market cap

Market cap is one of the most broken and redundant measures that there is. To put it politely and use your own eloquent language, you're retarded for thinking it matters.

They're not concerned about actual usability

You're confusing here the few with the many. Plenty of people understand that bitcoin needs a utility for it to continue to grow or else your 3rd point will remain true forever. Inevitably when you get so many people bullish on a technology and its potential you will get some who are only around for profit and don't understand the underlying tech.

When you're considering fees, there have already been advancements to try and prevent what happened in late 2017 from happening again, and there will continue to be so. With anything when there's an influx of new demand its hard to deliver. Scalability is always an issue but it's being worked on. The very fact fees got so high shows BTC is a success because it was driven by people using the coin.

Bitcoin is something speculators use to bet against other speculators

Can't argue with that, that will always be the case and it is for every other currency. It's not a criticism of any merit, it is the same for FIAT currencies. But like those FIAT currencies, it is not bitcoin's only use.

[netto7]

You have made some valid points but regarding all bulls as retarded is on the extreme which is hasty generalization because not all bull believers are unreasonable to think like McAfee or anyone who would wake up and come with predictions without thinking of how exactly that will have to happen and the challenges that comes with such happening.

There are still reasonable bulls who just wanted a decent and gradual progressive movement in price necessitated by evidential increase in adoption.

it easy to be bull believers if we rich like McAfee   i think he hold a lot of bitcoin.

if he fail predict for the price he still rich but if he right he f*king rich.

[Betwrong]

~

When I look at Bitcoin from a practical point of view, I don't see $1 trillion worth of goods and services being passed through it. Russia and Australia have an economy of $1 trillion. Their total population can collectively only produce $1 trillion in value. What can Bitcoin do? Not even 1/50th of that.

If you have any "rebuttals", fire away.

Alright, let's put aside the popular notion that market cap means nothing(which may also be true btw) and let's try to speak using your language. You say that Bitcoin's market cap can't be $1 trillion because there are no goods and services worth of $1 trillion being passed through it. Yes, you are right for the time being, but don't forget that Bitcoin is still in its early phase of adoption. You could say the same about Apple 10 years ago when its market cap was $68 billion, and it is around $1 Trillion today. You may argue that Apple produces goods and services while Bitcoin produces nothing. Well, Bitcoin is a payment system some people find convenient to use, so it is a service in a way. Now, think of the situation when only 1% of the world population, at each time step, were using Bitcoin for payments. Since the global market cap is around $100 Trillion, we would have around $1 Trillion for Bitcoin. Considering that the supply of BTC is limited to under 20 million in the foreseeable future, we can expect the price of 1 Bitcoin to be over $50,000 in that case.

[nicster551]

As the title says, I firmly believe that Bitcoin bulls have something wrong with them. Now, I don't actually mean the insult. What I mean is that people who are hoping the price shoots up to $100,000 are morons.

They have no regard for the market cap

People who say that it'll shoot up to $100,000 have no concept of market caps and size. They seem to think that since a bubble happened two times, it will happen again.

You should be able to differentiate between a $1,000,000 marketcap and $1 trillion market cap. Most Bitcoiners are unable to do so. They believe in it rising to infinity and beyond because of previous movements.

That's not how the market works, dummies!

They're not concerned about actual usability

The last time Bitcoin shot up in price, any transaction cost $50 to do. A big speaking point for Bitcoin used to be that you could do small transactions for virtually no cost. This all changed once it shot up.

The ethos suddenly changed to being that Bitcoin should only be for large payments only. $1-2 payments shouldn't have any consideration.

When there are $50 fees, there will be less incentive to move money around, slowing down the Bitcoin economy. If there's no circulation and flow, how can Bitcoin be considered a currency? That leads me onto my next point...

Bitcoin is something speculators use to bet against other speculators

A high price is attractive for those in the game only. It doesn't help expand worldwide coverage. It's a turnoff, actually.

Who are the ones profiting from Bitcoin? It's the speculators.

When I look at Bitcoin from a practical point of view, I don't see $1 trillion worth of goods and services being passed through it. Russia and Australia have an economy of $1 trillion. Their total population can collectively only produce $1 trillion in value. What can Bitcoin do? Not even 1/50th of that.

If you have any "rebuttals", fire away.

They are not retarted, they just do know where to enter or not. They are simply smart enough to know everything about trading.

[davis196]

Do you really think that the bulls believe in a 100K USD future bitcoin price?I don't think so.
They just spread optimisitc propaganda about bitcoin's bright future.Some people choose to believe in it,other people don't.By the way,this post is knda similar to another post here,talking about bitcoin supporters being morons.Bulls=retards,BTC supporters=morons.I guess we have trolls on this forum.

[randythered]

Firstly is it really necessary to use derogatory language and demean countless people in the process? You're entitled to your opinion and most of it you presented quite well, but there's little need for some of the language.

As for the points, some of them are valid, they're true for a lot of people probably. But they're also a gross over-generalization. Most bulls don't believe a lot of what you said to be true and understand most of the points that you've made.

[marcelocoin]

I do not believe that bitcoin reaches 100k USD very early, it will take a long time, and maybe it will never reach this value, but the price of 10k, 20k I believe!

[BitHodler]

I do not believe that bitcoin reaches 100k USD very early, it will take a long time, and maybe it will never reach this value, but the price of 10k, 20k I believe!

It will happen when no one expects it to happen, which goes up for what happened last year as well. $20,000 would be something for 2020-2022 if you asked people when they expected it to happen.

Overall, I think that reaching $100,000 isn't that much of a problem--the problem is consolidating above it. Bitcoin has proven to struggle with every new high and I don't expect much to change in the future (if ever at all).

My only thing with Bitcoin maximalists is that everything outside Bitcoin is by definition shit. Sure, most coins are indeed shit and have no chance to survive, but a small number of coins do have that usability.

I think Monero is a coin with decent potential. It may be a niche product, but still, it's working. In the same way that applies to Ethereum.

[kryptqnick]

What I mean is that people who are hoping the price shoots up to $100,000 are morons.

They have no regard for the market cap


You should be able to differentiate between a $1,000,000 marketcap and $1 trillion market cap. Most Bitcoiners are unable to do so. They believe in it rising to infinity and beyond because of previous movements.

That's not how the market works, dummies!

They're not concerned about actual usability

When there are $50 fees, there will be less incentive to move money around, slowing down the Bitcoin economy. If there's no circulation and flow, how can Bitcoin be considered a currency? That leads me onto my next point...

Bitcoin is something speculators use to bet against other speculators

A high price is attractive for those in the game only. It doesn't help expand worldwide coverage. It's a turnoff, actually.

Who are the ones profiting from Bitcoin? It's the speculators.
When I look at Bitcoin from a practical point of view, I don't see $1 trillion worth of goods and services being passed through it.

Market cap surely matters, but at least we can safely say that bitcoin can reach the previous results if not set the brew ATH. Apart from that, transaction fee issues are supposed to be solved by the lightning network. And also, I disagree that high price is rather an obstacle on the way to mass adoption. I think that if bitcoin doesn't at least get close to previous records, the merchants will not accept it widely, because nobody wants to lose do much money. We need a slight upward trend and pretty high prices for people to be motivated to accept bitcoin.

[Ranly123]

As the title says, I firmly believe that Bitcoin bulls have something wrong with them. Now, I don't actually mean the insult. What I mean is that people who are hoping the price shoots up to $100,000 are morons.

They have no regard for the market cap

People who say that it'll shoot up to $100,000 have no concept of market caps and size. They seem to think that since a bubble happened two times, it will happen again.

You should be able to differentiate between a $1,000,000 marketcap and $1 trillion market cap. Most Bitcoiners are unable to do so. They believe in it rising to infinity and beyond because of previous movements.

That's not how the market works, dummies!

They're not concerned about actual usability

The last time Bitcoin shot up in price, any transaction cost $50 to do. A big speaking point for Bitcoin used to be that you could do small transactions for virtually no cost. This all changed once it shot up.

The ethos suddenly changed to being that Bitcoin should only be for large payments only. $1-2 payments shouldn't have any consideration.

When there are $50 fees, there will be less incentive to move money around, slowing down the Bitcoin economy. If there's no circulation and flow, how can Bitcoin be considered a currency? That leads me onto my next point...

Bitcoin is something speculators use to bet against other speculators

A high price is attractive for those in the game only. It doesn't help expand worldwide coverage. It's a turnoff, actually.

Who are the ones profiting from Bitcoin? It's the speculators.

When I look at Bitcoin from a practical point of view, I don't see $1 trillion worth of goods and services being passed through it. Russia and Australia have an economy of $1 trillion. Their total population can collectively only produce $1 trillion in value. What can Bitcoin do? Not even 1/50th of that.

If you have any "rebuttals", fire away.

You got a point in in your rant, but I don't think that it's good to generalize that bulls are retarded. It is indeed too high of hopes to see Bitcoin price to reach $100k, yet some are optimistic enough to believe that someday the price will shoot up. Not that it would reach $100 but at least it would surpass it's previous ATH of #20k.

[exstasie]

You should be able to differentiate between a $1,000,000 marketcap and $1 trillion market cap. Most Bitcoiners are unable to do so. They believe in it rising to infinity and beyond because of previous movements.

I don't think it's just based on past performance but on the notion of exponentially increasing adoption. It's still known that significantly more money will be needed to sustain the price as it increases.

The last time Bitcoin shot up in price, any transaction cost $50 to do. A big speaking point for Bitcoin used to be that you could do small transactions for virtually no cost. This all changed once it shot up.

The ethos suddenly changed to being that Bitcoin should only be for large payments only. $1-2 payments shouldn't have any consideration.

That's really an exaggeration of fees last year. $1-2 fees for quickly confirmed transactions yeah, but anyone paying more than that was doing so unnecessarily (or was using lots of inputs). Transaction batching and Segwit adoption have definitely improved things since then and Lightning transactions are extremely cheap and fast.

I never bought into the "cheap fees" selling point because that's not really part of Bitcoin's design. But micropayments can be a reality as the Lightning Network becomes more usable.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Firstly is it really necessary to use derogatory language and demean countless people in the process?

There's very little censorship of language on this forum, and calling an enormous group of people retarded is not the worst insult I've ever heard.  Not even in the top 1000.

OP, markets can get very irrational and what I think a lot of these bulls are hoping for is another stretch of severe irrationality, i.e., bitcoin going to $100k or more.  I mean hell, bitcoin already reached $20k at its peak, so it's not outside the realm of possibility that it could hit $100k one day.  If your definition of retarded is being so hopeful that bitcoin is going to make you 100x your original investment that you can't realistically see all the barriers and problems and you invest more money than you can afford to lose, then I'd agree with that definition.

People like Peter Schiff drive me nuts and also would fall into the category of being retarded, even though he's extremely successful.  The problem with him and others like him is that they're constantly telling people to buy! buy! buy!, whether it's gold or bitcoin.  And when any market has just been through an extreme bull run, like gold in 2011 or bitcoin in 2017, there are going to be people losing their heads worrying that they might be losing out on an opportunity that just...maybe...the market is only cooling down a bit.  

What happens is that they end up with the result of every bubble (pop!), and they buy in right when the price is falling (or is staying flat).  I probably wouldn't insult them with epithets, but they're definitely greedy and blinded by the fear of missing out.  Nice provocative thread you got going here, OP.

Transaction batching and Segwit adoption have definitely improved things since then and Lightning transactions are extremely cheap and fast.

I used to think that bitcoin could never get to $1 million because of fees, but then I started understanding things like you mentioned, plus the possibility of doing OTC transactions as well.

[cryptomaster420]

I actually agree that permabulls are bad at thinking.
And yes, btc is purely speculative unlike adoption-based cryptos.
But making money on it speculating is not impossible.
TA works because people believe in it - a self fulfilling prophecy. You just gotta know when to be a bull and when to be a bear. And never be a pig 

[1Referee]

When I look at Bitcoin from a practical point of view, I don't see $1 trillion worth of goods and services being passed through it. Russia and Australia have an economy of $1 trillion. Their total population can collectively only produce $1 trillion in value. What can Bitcoin do? Not even 1/50th of that.

You are proven wrong already. Bitcoin has processed over $2 trillion worth of transactions this year. Most of it is likely due to speculation, but still, the network has processed that much in value, which is the most important metric to focus on. I expect this trend to continue and we'll likely break $3 trillion next year, or the year after.

LN will eventually process a fair amount of transactional value as well, so we can look forward to even more growth in that field. We already have wiped PayPal & Co off the table in terms of transactional value, and remember that we're still just starting up.

[deadthings]

When I look at Bitcoin from a practical point of view, I don't see $1 trillion worth of goods and services being passed through it. Russia and Australia have an economy of $1 trillion. Their total population can collectively only produce $1 trillion in value. What can Bitcoin do? Not even 1/50th of that.

You are proven wrong already. Bitcoin has processed over $2 trillion worth of transactions this year. Most of it is likely due to speculation, but still, the network has processed that much in value, which is the most important metric to focus on. I expect this trend to continue and we'll likely break $3 trillion next year, or the year after.

LN will eventually process a fair amount of transactional value as well, so we can look forward to even more growth in that field. We already have wiped PayPal & Co off the table in terms of transactional value, and remember that we're still just starting up.

I really like this answer, a short and pointly presented error and finally a beautiful strike about LN and PayPal.
I would just only add, that it is still just an experiment! 

[el kaka22]

Let's take these one by one. First of all, 1 trillion dollar market cap is not something unheard of, it has done that previously and it is still quite possible and even at a 100 thousand dollars the marketcap is still lower than nasdaq and nyse combined, that is just two american stock markets that pass bitcoin marketcap even if it was 100 thousand dollars per bitcoin and we have hundreds of stock markets all around the world whereas bitcoin is a global thing not an american thing. Hence, it is possible to reach those levels, definitely not easy and definitely not anytime soon but theoretically possible.

Second thing is, the 50 dollar transaction thing, last time bitcoin went up we were not prepared for such a rise and right now with segwit and lightning network we are more than ready for something like that, all exchanges and wallets are ready to have bitcoin at 100 thousand dollars and still capable of paying low amounts of fee for transactions.

Speculators part is definitely true, I have nothing against that, if it was something fundamentally disturbing the market we wouldn't talk about the price to begin with but since we focus on the price that means speculation is not only a whale thing but its for everyone. So, you are right on that one.

[nicster551]

Let's take these one by one. First of all, 1 trillion dollar market cap is not something unheard of, it has done that previously and it is still quite possible and even at a 100 thousand dollars the marketcap is still lower than nasdaq and nyse combined, that is just two american stock markets that pass bitcoin marketcap even if it was 100 thousand dollars per bitcoin and we have hundreds of stock markets all around the world whereas bitcoin is a global thing not an american thing. Hence, it is possible to reach those levels, definitely not easy and definitely not anytime soon but theoretically possible.

Second thing is, the 50 dollar transaction thing, last time bitcoin went up we were not prepared for such a rise and right now with segwit and lightning network we are more than ready for something like that, all exchanges and wallets are ready to have bitcoin at 100 thousand dollars and still capable of paying low amounts of fee for transactions.

Speculators part is definitely true, I have nothing against that, if it was something fundamentally disturbing the market we wouldn't talk about the price to begin with but since we focus on the price that means speculation is not only a whale thing but its for everyone. So, you are right on that one.

Although all of those things matter I know that it would somehow reach those goals and would make the market grow instantly when all people will come back to the market.

[Robust Crypto]

As the title says, I firmly believe that Bitcoin bulls have something wrong with them. Now, I don't actually mean the insult. What I mean is that people who are hoping the price shoots up to $100,000 are morons.

They have no regard for the market cap

People who say that it'll shoot up to $100,000 have no concept of market caps and size. They seem to think that since a bubble happened two times, it will happen again.

You should be able to differentiate between a $1,000,000 marketcap and $1 trillion market cap. Most Bitcoiners are unable to do so. They believe in it rising to infinity and beyond because of previous movements.

That's not how the market works, dummies!

They're not concerned about actual usability

The last time Bitcoin shot up in price, any transaction cost $50 to do. A big speaking point for Bitcoin used to be that you could do small transactions for virtually no cost. This all changed once it shot up.

The ethos suddenly changed to being that Bitcoin should only be for large payments only. $1-2 payments shouldn't have any consideration.

When there are $50 fees, there will be less incentive to move money around, slowing down the Bitcoin economy. If there's no circulation and flow, how can Bitcoin be considered a currency? That leads me onto my next point...

Bitcoin is something speculators use to bet against other speculators

A high price is attractive for those in the game only. It doesn't help expand worldwide coverage. It's a turnoff, actually.

Who are the ones profiting from Bitcoin? It's the speculators.

When I look at Bitcoin from a practical point of view, I don't see $1 trillion worth of goods and services being passed through it. Russia and Australia have an economy of $1 trillion. Their total population can collectively only produce $1 trillion in value. What can Bitcoin do? Not even 1/50th of that.

If you have any "rebuttals", fire away.

I believe that we will see another bull market when LN is fully functioning.