Print Page - Trump condemns socialism in SOTU

What a load of tosh. It's the US sanctions and subversive regime change activities that have screwed Venezuela. Everybody knows that the US just wants to steal the oil and gold reserves, and John Bolton has declared this publicly. We must be getting close to a massive world shakeup when Russia or China, or some other nation sinks a US aircraft carrier. Maduro is an ex-bus driver, and not the best politician that the world has seen, but the US must remove sanctions, and give the Venezuelans a chance to escape from starvation and foreign oppression, and try to rebuild their country.

The US has never won a war since the American civil war, and half of them lost that. It needs to be careful now that it is losing its military edge, world approval, and economic strength.

Quote from: Jet Cash on February 06, 2019, 07:31:52 AM

Venuezla had problems before we put sanctions on. The US did not apply any sanctions until mid-2015, and there were reported food shortages years before that (official data stopped being reported after there were shortages of about a quarter of goods).

Quote from: Jet Cash on February 06, 2019, 07:31:52 AM

The US has never won a war since the American civil war, and half of them lost that. It needs to be careful now that it is losing its military edge, world approval, and economic strength.

The US is a two-time world war champion.

The US buddies in Saudi Arabia flooded the oil supply to tank the prices per barrell and send Venezuela's economy into tailspin. This also hurt the Russian economy and sentenced the future of the world to the fate of climate change. The US will literally destroy the entire planet to prove socialism doesn't work.

Trump had a contradictory quote tonight that went something like "We beat communism and fought for equality"

Also the narrative that the nazis were defeated on d-day and not almost entirely by the Soviet Union on the eastern front is some of the most successful propaganda the world has ever seen.

Socialism is coming. Its the future and theres not much he can do to stop it. Thats why they are panicking talking about it so much. There will be a dozen new AOCs in 2020.

Quote from: Jet Cash on February 06, 2019, 07:31:52 AM

I’m not surprised by his ranting he’s not the first president to do it, and he won’t be the last one too to start a war right before their term ends. It’s even surprising all the wars have two things in common oil and gold, remember the Iraq war the so called weapons are till date not found. Third World War May be more closer than we think look around us the global states are in chaos be it brexit, Venezuela etc, all it’ll take one strike to trigger it.

Quote from: coins4commies on February 06, 2019, 08:25:46 AM

Also the narrative that the nazis were defeated on d-day and not almost entirely by the Soviet Union on the eastern front is some of the most successful propaganda the world has ever seen.

Hitler's big mistake was having a go at Russia,

A large number of allied soldiers were killed by "friendly" fire from Americans in the second world war. The joke in England is that the second world war would have been over a couple of days earlier if the Americans hadn't run out of bullets. It wasn't so long ago that the US had to use the British SAS to train its special forces either.

I've been watching a lot of US war machine propaganda recently, and the underlying message is that the US is extremely worried about its military vulnerability. I've watched the simulated close encounter dog fights to publicise their fighters, but the truth is that 5th generation fighters engage at distance of between 5 and 70 miles. Top gun pilots are no longer relevant. I've also watched carrier propaganda, and it appears that the barrels of the rapid fire guns have to be changed by hand, presumably as a result of over heating. That will be really handy when combating the drone swarms of the Chinese. Most of the videos seem to focus on image enhancing music, planes taking off and dancing in the sky, and guns shooting at conventional targets, and that isn't what modern war involves at super power level. However, the weapons are suitable for control and suppression of a non-military population.

Quote from: Quickseller on February 06, 2019, 07:05:58 AM

Tonight in Trump's State of the Union address, he condemned socialism and said "America will never be a socialist country". He also condemned the dictator currently in power (although not recognized as the legit president) who has used violence, killings, and frivolous criminal charges to stifle dissent in his country.

Socialists Bernie Sanders and Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez looked very uncomfortable as this condemnation received bipartisan applause.

Socialism in Venezuela has changed what used to be one of the wealthiest countries in South America into one of the poorest.

Even Nancy Pelosi applauded when Trump issued this condemnation.

All of these socialists, while applauding, are saying to themselves "But this time, doing it MY WAY, things will be different."

Quote from: Jet Cash on February 06, 2019, 07:31:52 AM

This is a lie and you don't live here. The source of the Venezuelan misery is Maduro's "real socialism" economy, aka. command economy. This was proposed by Chavez but was actually implemented in full by Maduro. No US sanctions affected anywhere the people, and i have told you elsewhere there have been no sanctions against Venezuela, only against the corrupt officials, and only recently in the last few years.

Stop repeating this lie about a reality you know nothing about.

Also you are deluded in political fiction. neither Russia nor China is going to sink anything, and they don't have ANY military forces stationed here. Russians have almost no presence here, there might be a few mercenaries as rumors say to "protect" Maduro, but that's about it. Putin isn't stupid to involve himself in a country where he has so little (or nothing) invested. And China is angry with Maduro's inability to fix the economy, they won't do anything beyond some diplomatic protest to save face while in reality negotiate a good agreement with whoever replaces the usurper. The opposition President Interim Guaidó has already openly stated that China has nothing to fear and in fact be grateful their investments would actually have a chance under a proper economy.

The Chinese learned the hard way socialist economies fail. THEY KNOW Maduro is going to fall. Even the Cubans know at this point, there is no turning back.

Quote from: Jet Cash on February 06, 2019, 07:31:52 AM

According to Marxists it's capitalism that causes under development. That being true you should be happy that the US didn't exploit Venezuela.

Quote from: Spendulus on February 06, 2019, 10:53:52 PM

All of these socialists, while applauding, are saying to themselves "But this time, doing it MY WAY, things will be different."

I was going to give a few examples of how extremely successful some democratic socialist countries are. Some examples of how all democracies have varying degree's of social programs beloved by their citizens (please don't go to a sporting event where tax payers paid for the fucking stadium you socialist piece of shit!). But then I remembered Murica and you're right if you guys tried to implement anything even remotely logical you would fuck it up and likely would end up like Venezuela, just look how you turned democracy into kleptocracy all while having citizens armed to the teeth for a revolution but sat on your balls while the elite shoved a cactus up your asshole (WMD, 2008 banking crisis LMFAO)!

Quote from: Flying Hellfish on February 07, 2019, 06:03:40 AM

Quote from: Spendulus on February 06, 2019, 10:53:52 PM

All of these socialists, while applauding, are saying to themselves "But this time, doing it MY WAY, things will be different."

At least we don't live in a frozen wasteland where nothing ever happens...

Quote from: OgNasty on February 07, 2019, 05:21:42 AM

That was one hell of a SotU. I couldn’t believe the way Trump controlled the room. Then today the Fed stated their next rate change might be a decrease (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-31/fed-s-dovish-pivot-flattens-remaining-rate-hike-expectations). So much winning...

+1 Pretty proud of how presidential he sounded, it was a great deviation from the norm. Even though I must say that I do like the norm most of the time.

Quote from: Artemis3 on February 06, 2019, 11:33:01 PM

Quote from: Jet Cash on February 06, 2019, 07:31:52 AM

Maduro is done for it within a couple months, the interim President is going to be naming new people to the CitGO board which is going to remove a good amount of ability from the Maduro administration.

Quote from: OgNasty on February 07, 2019, 05:21:42 AM

Everyone like SOTU addresses. The speech is the end result of a lot of work by a team of speechwriters working along with the entire administration, and they're given the rare opportunity to have a captive general audience for an hour or more. So they always have a high approval rating, though the effect doesn't last long.

It was impressive that he got so much Democrat applause, and I appreciated the digs at socialism and endless wars. But overall I found it pretty typical for a SOTU. Unfortunately, everyone (including the president) will probably forget about it in a couple of weeks.

Quote from: mOgliE on February 06, 2019, 09:11:41 AM

Quote from: Quickseller on February 06, 2019, 07:42:21 AM

The US is a two-time world war champion.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Sincerely,
Europe

I am not sure if you are serious or not. The Axis quite literally controlled all of Europe except for England in WW2 prior to D-Day, which wouldn’t have been possible without American troops and resources. The allies again in WW1 didn’t have victory in sight until the surge of American troops.

Perhaps your revisionist view is the result of hatred of America and desire of liberalism.

Quote from: Flying Hellfish on February 07, 2019, 06:03:40 AM

Quote from: Spendulus on February 06, 2019, 10:53:52 PM

All of these socialists, while applauding, are saying to themselves "But this time, doing it MY WAY, things will be different."

The socialist countries you speak of have national defense subsidized by the rest of the world, namely the US. The same can be said of healthcare as these countries pay much less for medicines and medical treatment than the rest of the world, meaning recouping investment in creating the drugs must come from elsewhere.

Quote from: Quickseller on February 07, 2019, 03:37:25 PM

There is no doubt that USA and American soldiers were and important part of WWII.
There is no doubt that 400 000 American soldiers died to free Europe.

There is even less doubt that US government and industries largely abused the sacrifice of their people to take everything they could in Europe.

And there is no freaking doubt calling yourself a "champion" when URSS sent 10 millions troop to the front and lost about 20 millions people in the fight against 3rd Reich is a great lack of respect.

What should I say about this? "HAHAHA"? I find Trump's statement nonsense. The US once sanctioned Venezuela and made it something that will make this thing as "socialism" expand because of stupidity.

I think Socialism will always be there and it won't be stopped by anyone even Trump himself. Socialists will always be there to take advantage of every opportunity for profitability.

Russia and China will be there to take their part in socialism and we need to get ready for that. The US is trying to survive the threats these socialists could affect them. The conflicts are flaming and I think there's something that will happen soon. Maybe Trump is getting bored with this kind of things and wanted something interesting like war.

Quote from: Flying Hellfish on February 07, 2019, 06:03:40 AM

Quote from: Spendulus on February 06, 2019, 10:53:52 PM

All of these socialists, while applauding, are saying to themselves "But this time, doing it MY WAY, things will be different."

I was going to give a few examples of how extremely successful some democratic socialist countries are. Some examples of how all democracies have varying degree's of social programs beloved by their citizens (please don't go to a sporting event where tax payers paid for the fucking stadium you socialist piece of shit!). But then I remembered Murica and you're right if you guys tried to implement anything even remotely logical you would fuck it up and likely would end up like Venezuela, just look how you turned democracy into kleptocracy all while having citizens armed to the teeth for a revolution but sat on your balls while the elite shoved a cactus up your asshole (WMD, 2008 banking crisis LMFAO)!

Every time someone tries to talk to me about "of course socialized medicine could work for America just look at Denmark..." I just explain we're NOT DENMARK.

Its not just Denmark.

Quote

1 Norway 2 Australia 2 Switzerland 4 Germany 5 Denmark 5 Singapore 7 Netherlands 8 Ireland 9 Iceland 10 Canada 12 Hong Kong 13 New Zealand 14 Sweden 15 Liechtenstein 16 United Kingdom 17 Japan 18 South Korea 19 Israel 20 Luxembourg 21 France 22 Belgium 23 Finland 24 Austria 25 Slovenia 26 Italy 27 Spain 28 Czech Republic 29 Greece 30 Brunei 30 Estonia 32 Andorra 33 Cyprus 33 Malta 33 Qatar 36 Poland 37 Lithuania 38 Chile 39 Saudi Arabia 40 Slovakia 41 Portugal 42 United Arab Emirates 43 Hungary 44 Latvia 45 Argentina 45 Croatia 47 Bahrain 48 Montenegro 49 Russia 50 Romania 51 Kuwait…

Its all 32 developed countries. Explain how we are not Denmark but also how we are not even a developed country.

Also, I wish people knew history instead of just western propaganda statements like "WORLD WAR CHAMPS BABY"

Quote

Stalingrad has been described as the biggest defeat in the history of the German Army.[108][109] It is often identified as the turning point on the Eastern Front, in the war against Germany overall, and in the entire Second World War.[27]:142[110][111] The Red Army had the initiative, and the Wehrmacht was in retreat. A year of German gains during Case Blue had been wiped out. Germany's Sixth Army had ceased to exist, and the forces of Germany's European allies, except Finland, had been shattered.[112] In a speech on 9 November 1944, Hitler himself blamed Stalingrad for Germany's impending doom.[113]

The destruction of an entire army (the largest killed, captured, wounded figures for Axis soldiers, nearly 1 million, during the war) and the frustration of Germany's grand strategy made the battle a watershed moment.[114] At the time, the global significance of the battle was not in doubt. Writing in his diary on 1 January 1943, British General Alan Brooke, Chief of the Imperial General Staff, reflected on the change in the position from a year before:

I felt Russia could never hold, Caucasus was bound to be penetrated, and Abadan (our Achilles heel) would be captured with the consequent collapse of Middle East, India, etc. After Russia's defeat how were we to handle the German land and air forces liberated? England would be again bombarded, threat of invasion revived... And now! We start 1943 under conditions I would never have dared to hope. Russia has held, Egypt for the present is safe. There is a hope of clearing North Africa of Germans in the near future... Russia is scoring wonderful successes in Southern Russia.[114]

At this point, the British had won the Battle of El Alamein in November 1942. However, there were only about 50,000 German soldiers at El Alamein in Egypt, while at Stalingrad 200,000 Germans had been lost.[114]

Regardless of the strategic implications, there is little doubt about Stalingrad's symbolism. Germany's defeat shattered its reputation for invincibility and dealt a devastating blow to German morale. On 30 January 1943, the tenth anniversary of his coming to power, Hitler chose not to speak. Joseph Goebbels read the text of his speech for him on the radio. The speech contained an oblique reference to the battle, which suggested that Germany was now in a defensive war. The public mood was sullen, depressed, fearful, and war-weary. Germany was looking in the face of defeat.[115]

Quote from: sheenshane on February 07, 2019, 04:56:44 PM

I've never understood this narrative at all, most of the US sanctions that were placed on Venezuela were done under the Obama administration. This is an administration which admired the Chavez era, and an administration that was called by conservatives to be one which supported Socialism around the world and wanted it in America.

This was an administration that should have been friendly to socialist countries-- but because of the evils in the country, disregarding the socialist policies, the administration is taking action.

Though, I do think that Americans do love wartime presidents -- they're always more popular if they're fighting a common foe of all American allies and political parties.

Quote from: mOgliE on February 07, 2019, 01:52:23 PM

Quote from: BitBustah on February 07, 2019, 01:41:52 PM

More socialist policies are inevitable at this point. With the rise of automation there will need to be some sort of Universal Basic Income or there will be real trouble.

shhhhh

don't burst the "free market" "constructive destruction" bubble.

Automation means rise of new sectors, not massive unemployment. The new sectors rise just hasn't kicked off yet because of niggas/immigrants/taxes/government regulations pick the one you like best

Perhaps your understanding of socialism and capitalism needs an upgrade from Indoctrination Camp 101. What differentiates socialism from capitalism is individual freedom to act on your own. There are great food coops all over this country, many of them are avowedly anti-capitalistic and yet, since the coops were not created by the state they are examples of the free market.

I would like socialists to act on their beliefs. Join together, buy buildings. You can get people to live and work in the coop complex, slowly but surely getting them off the grid.

Quote from: coins4commies on February 08, 2019, 08:19:04 AM

How are the health outcomes so much better and spending so much less than that of the US if the quality is so bad?

There is no debate here.

It has been largely proven that the American health system is extremely costly and innefficient while even being more unequal than any European system.

The 10 best healthcare systems are all socialist European systems. They're 33% less costly than American one while being more available to everyone.

Funny how the fact that a sector representing between 10 and 15% of the national GDP has been proven to be more effective under a socialist organization, but yet socialism is evil and theft...

Quote from: Quickseller on February 06, 2019, 07:05:58 AM

he might face the consequences, of countless "coiner" empires fighting each other on american soil like it was the case among the native americans

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Other => Politics & Society => Topic started by: Quickseller on February 06, 2019, 07:05:58 AM