Bitcoin Forum

Outdated blockchains that currently charge fee’s per transactions are to be left in the dust as new concepts that allow for fee-less transactions come to light. Get ready to indulge information that is sure to enlighten you.

https://medium.com/@scroda/next-gen-blockchains-are-fee-less-8eebf7f67947


It is to note that some blockchains have attempted to provide fee-less transactions but in reality just hiding the fee’s elsewhere, either by making you pay for it at home or making others pay it for you, in which both aren’t a healthy practice.


Update:

These days obtaining privacy is costly with tumblers charging anywhere from 1-5% of the funds being tumbled, yes that is a really big cut. Monero also charges for privacy in where users pay more for every other person included in the mixin of their funds. Tumblers and privacy coins leave you with a pretty big bill, while still failling to offer your 100% privacy.

Is it worth paying for privacy while your transactions can still be linked back to each other? No. Should you be paying for privacy in the first place when privacy is a given right in the USA under the fourth amendment? No.

Scroda aims to offer its users 100% privacy completly free, eliminating the need of having to pay thousands and thousands of dollars on privacy alone.

Read more below.

https://medium.com/@scroda/how-scrodas-fee-less-ecosystem-allows-for-true-privacy-5ec931725a26

if you're not paying for the product, you are the product! Direct or indirect fess are economical incentive. You can't build a stable network without it.

Of course you can, taken into account that in non-PoW type concesus, block rewards are able to reward anyone contributing to upholding the network as there are no outrageous energy bills. The only real reason fee's where needed is to prevent spam on the network but as shown there are other ways around it.

This is a new age no fee's are needed why would you want to stick with fee's ??? ??? Of course people would choose a fee-less network if provided over the other.


I mean I hope that I can get some decent conversation with some technical savy people..... instead of being thrown useless defenses which provide no real use cases on why fee's would need to stick around in the first place.

Every year I'm reading about the NEXT thing which will bury down ETH and Bitcoin, but both are still here.
Idea by itself is worthless, it need a mass adoption and I prefer to pay some fees instead of being a product. FB and Google are also fee-less...

Again another really unproductive comment... is this really what the crypto community is all about? Bitcoin is so old tech it won't last.

This is why the crypto market is where it is at now because it is only about numbers and you want to exclude the technology...

You talk about idea's being worthless but it is these ideas that brought us to where we are today.

Any investor before the time of cryptocurrencies knows this, they invested and took risks in ideas...

Please.

I think we would need a check list of how many people here where actually accredited investors before thinking they are so called "professional investors" investing in cryptocurrency.

Again up to some productive conversation with some tech savy people. If you can't read a technical post why would I ever listen to your opinion? It's like you saying hey this coin is good, it's gaining mass value but I do not know the technical aspects behind it fully.

Really sound advice you guys give, do you read much whitepapers also?

I mean just taking a look at your signature and the Saturn Platform a really bad ICO with a really trash Whitepaper it's pretty obvious not to take you seriously.  :o :o :o

and there are facebook competitors coming to the blockchain which offers transparency + and if they where to offer no fees = win/win

Cryptocurrency in the future must compete for cheap transactions, so that it is popular and in demand. However, completely free transactions are unlikely to ever be. Although if the project of this type of cryptocurrency will earn something else, maybe it will be ever possible.

But did you read the blog? the technology is there to allow for truly fee-less transactions so why do you say it's unlikely to be? Everything takes time but say 3-4 years from now most blockchains should be looking at having fee-less transactions. It starts with just one to start to get a momentum going and the project is still in it's early stages.

There are some projects also have zero fee. I think fee is not much important yet for us. It is a problem which we consider it future. We have bigger problems. Like electricity, scalability... We have to find solution for that.

Well in earlier days bitcoin fees was near to zero you could say it was near to nothing but eventually it increased as more and more people come to know about it and use bitcoin. Imagine the scenario of people using this type of blockchain waiting for their transactions to be confirmed because of high no. of unconfirmed transactions in the network.

We already have this kind of situation in fee implemented blockchain then imagine the situation in fee less blockchain?

If you read the blog it notes that there are some project which supposedly have zero fees like IOTA but aren't really fee-less as you are doing the PoW and running electric bills on your end.

The solution above does not require such things thus actually providing for fee-less transactions.


There is a solution in fee-less blockchains if you read the blog it shows how it prevents spam on the network thus making it a viable solution. Confirmation times would be down to less than 1 minute as restrictions are set in place so that people can't spam transactions on the network.


I feel like most people do not even take in what they are reading...if you do not read and take it in then you are not providing a productive conversation.

Not really trust in fee-less network..
There should be some hidden trick iside. No one will make something free of charge in long term.
As an option - full with commercial. Like facebook - fee-less as well  ::)

Again I ask for people commenting to actually read the blog. Not trying to have my time wasted if you can't even read a blog then I highly doubt most read whitepapers.

There are no hidden tricks aside and with it being on the blockchain it is transparent. There's no commercials, no eletric bills, nothing hidden......  ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

Plus the lack of fees isn't that good for any system from the security standpoint. What aspect would prevent the probability of making a lot of spam transactions to slower the network to very low speed rate?

Again did you read the blog?? the answer is in the blog on how spam is prevented  :o :o :o :o :o confirmation times aren't affected and are much lower and faster through a fee-less system.

What is going on with people in this forum  :o :o :o :o :o

And.. I found no answer how it will become fee less..
1. Tier Levels & Time-Lock restrictions
2. Biometric Identity
3. Turing Olympic on the Blockchain

Where is explanation?

P.S. Italic is quite hard to read on your Medium blog.

Medium provides a better format and allows for me to post images. Again in each section it states how it prevents spam on the network thus not requiring funds... I am not trying to insult your intelligence but I see that you have no technical knowledge. You keep asking what has already been answered. I suggest you become more informed on the technical aspects of blockchain.

without fee, then what consensus is used by Pow or POS?
I'm sure these two consensus is very unlikely, because every transaction must pay a fee.

if indeed it is possible who runs the network, this sounds like Centralized

Fee's have nothing to do with concensus nor does it take away from decentralization. PoW and PoS are not the only concesus mechanisms around. I suggest you do some more research before spouting out absurd answers.

also if you want to read more why not actually read the whitepaper maybe you will find the answers you seek it is a good tactic.

I am sorry if my statement made you felt that way. Actually your post didn't threw me that table earlier (probabs coz of my scrappy network) so I was unable to understand the Tier level & Lock think earlier (but now I do). I think Time lock thing is pretty smart tho.

Haha thank you for actually taking it in and being the first person to provide a genuine comment  :)

I think that for a good product you need to pay, as in the development of its funds and human resources have been invested.

Block rewards take care of this not fee's, the only reason fee's are needed in PoW is because of its outrageous power consumption. Permisionless blockchains are for the people so why would they need to pay for something that is built for them and to free them from the grasp of others when it is not required.

wait is this not fair if it gives a tier, why does someone who has a small amount have to wait longer to make a transaction.

maybe using time lock is a good thing, but using tiers doesn't seem necessary. not every transaction is collected in 1 block, depending on the capacity of the block. so it doesn't matter how much money they have. without fees it is possible, but there must be a sacrifice and one of them is time.

It is funny that you bring up this argument of fee up, Fee is serving an important role in the ecosystem, with the reduction in the mining reward what incentives do you have for miners for them to keep securing the next work. Let me tell you, nothing is absolutely free, someone somewhere is paying the price for tat which you think is free

Again fee is not that important as any non energy consuming network can pay anyone upholding the network with block rewards, ie new coins being brought into the network.


It is a bit fair and yes a wait time is what is being sacraficed on the network, everyone gets fee-less transaction. The tier levels with a lower fund amount have a higher time sacraficed mainly because in the way Scroda's network operates it restricts all users to one-time-use addreses this being because Scroda is a privacy coin. If you head to https://scroda.io/ you can read more on the whitepaper.

It does provide users with the option to safely merge their funds together also through the use of a mixing pool in which allows for unlinkability to be maintained.  :)


Yes exactly which is why the time lock is what we are standing by, then the biometric would be used seperate from transactions just for node validators and governance. The Turing Olympics we decided to leave on the drawing board just to get peoples juices flowing on creativity and being open to new posibilities even though we are not to implement it at the time into Scroda.

Glad to hear your thought on the matter  :) :) :)

I do not think that this is possible, because it is necessary to have capacity around the world, that they would keep the data on transactions.

Sorry could you re-phrase your question? What I got was capacity? you mean nodes to process the data? If so it is doable without the need of fee's.

Bitcoin currently has 10,000 full nodes running.

Bitcoin creates 1,800 new coins per day.

1,800 coins x $3,500 = $6,300,000 in rewards just purely on block rewards without any fees included.

with $6,300,000 in block rewards any non energy consuming blockchain has more than enough to reward members that are upholding their network.


Bitcoin isn't the only blockchain out there nor is PoW the only concensus mechanism, please do more research on blockchain as you are lacking knowledge and I would advice against you investing in ICO's until you do so, for your own good.

Again before posting absurd replies please make sure to know what you are talking about. It looks silly and you should be ashamed.  ::)

low cost is indeed a major attraction, the decentralized system adopted by some blockchain does have to provide this but there are some who do not actually charge high rates and if they continue to do so crypto will forever only be a means of investment not as a currency used for payment

Actually cryptocurrencies will forever only be looked at as an investment if the production of new technology is delayed. The fee-less ecosystem that Scroda has servers a purpose, this is to allow for self-routing to take place in abundance without limiting users to just routing 3-6 times as Monero does as it ends up being costly imagine having to pay thousands of dollars just to maintain privacy over time it isn't worth it nor is it fair to have to pay for privacy.

I think that much depends on the concept of the project. If the platform does not imply additional emissions, then some motivation is needed so that people support the network and be nodes. For motivation, you can use fee as  reward.

Again block rewards serve as plenty of motivation, most blockchains that implement fee's take a founders cut out of it for no practical reason.

$6,300,000 is a decent daily block reward amount so why would users need more than that if they are not using a energy consuming blockchain?

None, fee's actually help blockchains become more centralized as all these fee's go to the same people and they are the ones who end up holding the majority of coins in a network just from collecting an absurd amount of fee's which isn't healthy for a blockchain ecosystem at all. :o :o :o

if only all types of crypto and exchangers apply lower transaction costs and the transaction process can be faster then I am sure there will be many people who are interested in using crypto as a legitimate payment tool because if it is truly revised the bank will be completely abandoned

True my friend  :) the thing is alot of people don't look at cryptocurrencies for its technology but just merely for the ROI  :'(

You seem like never watched DAG system and that has already applied to the DAG system dude. That article is useless because it's only people's opinion and he can't even create it. Someone has already made it and it's life right now. instant transaction and zero fees. It's a little bit different than blockchain.

Again as many have noted IOTA(DAG) has hidden fee's. IE the eletric bill that shows up at a users house.

Again please do your research....  ::) ::) ::) ::)

even they boast for zero transaction fees, they have hidden charges somewhere. it is like your local crypto exchange, boasting no withdrawal fees, but you are buying your fiat currency in a higher rate or selling your bitcoin at a much lower rate.

Who IOTA? Or Scroda's concept? If so did you read the concept there really isn't no hidden fees anywhere at all unlike IOTA, Scroda's concept is 100% fee-less.

Again please read the blog before commenting really not trying to have pointless conversations with those who did not bother reading the blog.  ::) ::) ::)

You sum it mate, well said, these kind of projects are selling plain " illusions ", this reminds me of that RobinHood exchange when they keep marketing their product (exchange) as FeesFree exchange, oh god, & then the spread is pretty " amazing " for them lol.

There i nothing called FREE in the internet, people should know this as a fact & move one, FRE means "  Motivation " = product dies, as simple as that (supposedly this FREE thing exists in the first place).

Again please read the blog before commenting we are not selling plain illusions, why comment if you will not read the blog. We are not robinhood and cant be compared to them nor are we hidding fee's such as IOTA.

If you bothered reading the blog maybe you will learn something. :)

Some examples would have been better. Regarding fee less, I am yet to come across entirely fee less Blockchain, some have negligible transaction fees (but still fees!) and some require amount of coins to be locked.

I am agree. Transaction fee must be needed for the project or miner. But new technology must be can provide lower transaction fee. I dont believe free transaction fee, looks almost impossible. I have a DAG coin but not IOTA and every transaction charged fee but its more lower.

The fee-less ecosystem that Scroda has servers a purpose, this is to allow for self-routing to take place in abundance without limiting users to just routing 3-6 times as Monero does as it ends up being costly imagine having to pay thousands of dollars just to maintain privacy over time it isn't worth it nor is it fair to have to pay for privacy.

Take a look at how Scroda's Fee-less ecosystem allows for private transactions.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5107475.0



Again block rewards serve as plenty of motivation, most blockchains that implement fee's take a founders cut out of it for no practical reason.

$6,300,000 is a decent daily block reward amount so why would users need more than that if they are not using a energy consuming blockchain?

None, fee's actually help blockchains become more centralized as all these fee's go to the same people and they are the ones who end up holding the majority of coins in a network just from collecting an absurd amount of fee's which isn't healthy for a blockchain ecosystem at all. Shocked Shocked Shocked


People please read before posting   :o  :o :o

How will you stable the network if there is no fee? Who is going to validate the transaction? How much decentralized will be the blockchain? Can you please write more about it? I am confused.

Read the blog shows how spam is prevented, there are still node validators just as any other blockchain instead that we do not use PoW I would also suggest on touching up more on the different type of consensus mechanism as their is more than just one(a helpful tip that can increase your knowledge base) it doesn't take away from decentralization at all, it's just as decentralized as any other project.

Also I would suggest taking a look at the whitepaper at https://scroda.io

I suggest to always read the whitepaper if you want to gather more information as it is the best source of knowledge for any project, it's a good habit to get into as you tend to learn a lot about the technical aspects of up and coming projects.

Blockchain is unchecked and it needs money to maintain. Like facebook, users do not have to pay a fee to use but they have to watch the ads from there to generate revenue for Facebook.

Ok now this is getting ridiculous, how many times do I have to tell users to read before posting? there is no ad watching or need to generate revenue it is surprising and shameful at the same how many users do not know nothing about blockchain nor its technology and still have the audacity to act like they are blockchain experts.

Please research more and gain more knowledge about the blockchain before posting and raising doubts... again block rewards are more than enough to cover the rewards needed for people upholding the network.

I don't think charging is a big problem of blockchain technology. The problem here is to record transaction history and improve wallet user information.
The amount of transaction fees is too low compared to the service that blockchain technology gives us. But for it to grow bigger, it needs some positive changes.

Yes some positive changes are needed  :) and fee's become a problem when trying to obtain privacy the more privacy one tries to obtain the more they pay and this isn't fair... imagine having to pay thousands in fees just to obtain privacy.

-Bump-

These days obtaining privacy is costly with tumblers charging anywhere from 1-5% of the funds being tumbled, yes that is a really big cut. Monero also charges for privacy in where users pay more for every other person included in the mixin of their funds. Tumblers and privacy coins leave you with a pretty big bill, while still failling to offer your 100% privacy.

Is it worth paying for privacy while your transactions can still be linked back to each other? No. Should you be paying for privacy in the first place when privacy is a given right in the USA under the fourth amendment? No.

Scroda aims to offer its users 100% privacy completly free, eliminating the need of having to pay thousands and thousands of dollars on privacy alone.

Read more below.

https://medium.com/@scroda/how-scrodas-fee-less-ecosystem-allows-for-true-privacy-5ec931725a26

Nano is my favorite out of all of them.
It is instant, has no fees, and scales.
Seriously, once you try it you will wonder why you even bothered with gas prices or confirmation times at all.

But, also, I realize that the "next-gen" blockchains have a long ways to go.
Yes, there are superior techonologies to bitcoin, but nothing comes even remotely close to its network and market penetration.
At the core of everything crypto is trustless p2p transactions.
Really, despite all the mania and prices on coinmarketcap, it comes down to people agreeing that btc is worth $3600.
It doesn't have any inherent value at all.

So even if the most amazing blockchain tech comes around, it will be useless and have no value unless it has a network to support it.
And as of now, everything is still very much speculative not to mention risky.

Yea Bitcoin has no value to me neither. Wouldn't pay more than $300 but even then that's on the high side of valuation for me.

But you have to also keep in mind that Nano has hidden fees which is based on the computational cost in electricity.

It will also probably be easier for Scroda to gather a larger audience as it is also a platform with many uses not just a simple cryptocurrency in which is used for payments.

This would be awesome and I think we are slowly moving that way. A lot of projects are releasing blockchain updates and the main feature is the fees reductions, because they have finally understand the main problem.

Thank you for supporting the idea of the project  :) :) :), and yes alot of projects are aiming towards fee reductions, we have to improve and just keep on improving in order for the crypto community to regain the respect it deserves.

It's just something that we as humans do also, we have to always aim at evolving and becoming better.

Blockchains without fees are not that good as many people could think. Everyone and everything should be incentivized and protected by different restrictions. Fees are a very good concept to protect the system from spam transactions and wasting of resources.

Again this has already been discussed in the blog there are restriction in place to protect the system from spam transactions.

New comers please read before posting it doesn't look good to post on something that has already been discussed and answered.

-Bump-

Open to thoughts and productive discussions, please read before posting.

Crypto transaction with no fee? will that really possible?
Then who will pay for the network fee or the fee that should be provided for miners? what i know that what make things moving in crypto currency is one of them are those miners, they makes the transaction possible to be done.

Most fee-less blockchains are POS/DPOS where holder's stake determines it's influence. There are witnesses who solve the blocks and get rewarded for doing so, your influence on particular platform determines those witnesses rank.

EOS/Tron/Steen these are some examples.

Glad to have some intellectual humans on board in the thread  :)

Yes and the majority is also Permissioned Blockchains which are able to be fee-less just through being able to identify the malicious actors on the network as all validators must first be verified.

The problem is mostly introduced on permissionless blockchains as it is hard to identify such actors so a fee is introduced.

Still even with PoW/DPoW it is hard to have a fee-less environment just so because then the people with the most amount of funds staked could easily manipulate the network which is why Scroda is using Tier Levels to prevent such things from happening.