Bitcoin Forum

***SCAM ALERT***
***TERNIO SCAM***

Ternio (built on Stellar) project is claiming themselves to be capable of 1M TPS but never shown that to anyone. They've posted an audit report of the same on there website - https://ternio.io/audit/ but anyone can see it for themselves and see how fake it is. It's been audited by a company called "Null Bash", with address "304 S Jones Blvd, Suite 2104, Las Vegas, NV, 89107". Now this so called "Null Bash" company seems to have no internet presence.

Here's what makes Ternio a SCAM:

False promises made during ICO to lure the investors:

1. They claimed during ICO that they've been accepted by 3 top 10 exchanges for listing. After they finised ICO in June 2018, they got listed on BitForex (certainly not a top 10 exchange). And since then till now they've not registered on any exchange. When people ask about the same in there telegram group, admins counter it with huge listing fees asked by the exchanges, and most of the top 10 exchanges having wash trading and fake volume going on. If you ask a little bit more on that, they block you from telegram group claiming you to spread FUD.

2. They claimed that 2 big household companies (known to most of the people and hinting on the line of amazon google facebook etc) have agreed to work with Ternio and use there advertising blockchain platform for advertisisng there products. But even after 10+ months of ICO ended, not a single discussion on that, and yes if you ask it more than twice, you'll get a ban.

3. They have said that unsold tokens during ICO will be distributed to the ICO participants with atleast $30 worth of investment. It's been 10+ months now and they didn't distributed them and banning the people if they ask the same in there telegram group. Clearly they don't want to distribute those unsold tokens and keeping them for themselves. I'll attach some pics for the discussion happened regarding the same here in some time.

4. They have started an airdrop and asked everyone to create an stellar wallet, preferable on LOBSTR as they have some kind of partnership with LOBSTR team. They have told everyone for the 4-5 months that airdrop tokens will be sent to LOBSTR account after 6 months of ICO end. ICO ended on 15th june so distribution was supposed to happen around mid december. But then they changed there decision at the beginning of december and asked people to create an account for there new product "Blockcard" and airdrops will be sent there only. They didn't send any email to the participants of airdrop stating the same, only informed it on telegram group. Since airdrop was going to happen after 6 months, many people were not active on telegram and waiting to get it on there LOBSTR wallet. But when they didn't received any token in dec 2018, they asked about it on telegram and got a surprise that nothing can be happen now. They started banning the people who ask about missing the airdrop. Founders keep those unclaimed airdrop tokens for themselves.

5. They also have a referral program running and for each referral they're giving 50 TERN tokens. The rule was simple that people need to register on there website and that's it. No KYC required, no ICO investment needed, no condition of joining there telegram group either. After 10 months of referral program being ended, when people asked about referral tokens, one of the founder "Ian Kane" said that all the referrals had to go through KYC. I asked them personally many a times that why someone will do KYC after 10 months of initial registration, they've no reply of that. When many people started saying it's not fair and they have to come up with other solution, they started banning the people. Everybody knows that more than 90% of people are not going to do KYC after 10months and mos probable they would have forget about registering on ternio. So founders are keeping all these tokens for themselves.
Here's the link to the referral stats - http://stats.ternio.io which has been taken down now so no one can see there referral count. But few people have around 2k referrals and some have 1k+ referrals. While the site was up I calculated that around 6M referral tokens was supposed to be distributed. Now they are keeping 90% of them for themselves.

6. Biggest claim was that they've applied for patent on there technology. All the patents pending are easily searchable, I tried to search for Ternio on USA patents website but didn't find it. When asked about it on there group, they said we've made the patent request in such a way that it's not searchable. Again a statement which makes no sense to anyone. But yeah, you can't ask them, coz you'll get a ban for that.


Questions around there Fake Audit Report:

1. There auditor's website is nullbash.com (if you'll open it by going to www.nullbash.com, it won't open, it opens only when you remove www prefix). Anyone can understand from there website that if at all they exist, how fake they seems to be. There's no mention of there address on the website, no mention of them doing blockchain testing. And the big thing is you can try to contact them through contact-us page but they never replies. I've tried to contact them at least 5 times but no response from them in last 45 days. Few members have asked about how the ternio team/founders chose the Null Bash and how they contacted them for blockchain testing, there reply is they don't remember it now. Also one of my friend lives in Las Vegas and he personally checked the address "304 S Jones Blvd, Suite 2104, Las Vegas, NV, 89107" and it's a home address, not "Null Bash" company's.

2. Here's the link to there audit report - https://ternio.io/audit/ . There's no mention of data collected and which methods are used to verify that Ternio can cross 1M TPS. Just one line is written that auditor is confident of ternio exceeding 1M TPS. Anyone can read that report and see for themselves that it's not an authentic audit report. I highly doubt if they ever had an audit of there code.

Questions around there new product "Blockcard" and suspicious competition going on:

1. They've introduced a new product called "Blockcard", a physical crypto card approved by VISA. Investors need to send crypto and it automatically gets converted to TERN. So to happen this, cryptos like BTC/ETH/XLM needs to be sold and TERN needs to be bought, but if you ask them, they don't tell how it's happening or through which exchange they're doing this conversion, and they keep on saying that it's Magic. Many people have complained about getting lesser TERN's in respect of Crypto deposited, and asked them which exchange price they've used for conversion, but they don't entertain such queries and even then don't tell that which exchange rates are applied during conversion.

2. For the "Blockcard" mentioned above, Ternio is running a competition and will send the cards for free for top 100 TERN holders. Strangest thing is that this competition has No End Date. You can check that on there own medium article here - https://medium.com/@ternio/the-ternio-blockcard-has-arrived-1f3e33577600
Here's the exact sentence from there above article - "The top 100 accounts with the highest amount of crypto deposited in their BlockCard account will receive their BlockCards in phase 1. There is no set end date to when this contest will end, so users are encouraged to deposit the maximum amount they are comfortable with and will utilize on the BlockCard"

3. They've shared a video on telegram group that "Blockcard" being used in USA. I'll upload the video to youtube or any file sharing website and provide the link in some time. In video anyone can see that when they're handing over the card for the payment, they took the camera away and it's not visible if they gave the blockcard or some other card for payment. It's done very cleverly.

4. They're claiming that card has been approved by VISA, but in there all advertisement banners they've not showing VISA logo. When asked about it, they say that they chose not to show VISA logo. Who doesn't want to take benefit of getting approved by VISA? Why're they hiding it?

Questions around there advertisement of Amazon Partner Network:

1. They're advertising there Advanced tier status with Amazon Partner Network, which is just a gimmick of using the name of Amazon to get more people buying there TERN tokens. They're also claiming that there code has been checked by the "Amazon" itself, which is not true again, and not showing any proof of that too.


Final thoughts:
1. There are so many questions surrounding there promises made during ICO, especially being approved by 3 top 10 exchanges to list them. Clearly it has benefited them to raise funds and they've cheated there investors.
2. They are keeping all the unsold tokens during ICO which was supposed to be given to ICO participants for themselves.
3. They are keeping undistributed airdrop and referral tokens for themselves.
4. There so called pending patent is not searchable on USA pending patents website.
5. There audit report is fake and the company which have done the auditing doesn't exist. No Github presence, no code repository available for third party to check. No proof of there 1M TPS blockchain.
6. They're running a competition which has no end date. What kind of competition has no end date?
7. They're advertising there Amazon APN partnership (which you can get by paying yearly fees to Amazon) but chose not to advertise there VISA approved card. They're contradicting there own statements.
8. They're banning the people if asked a question 2-3 times to which they don't have any answer.


I'll update this post with some screenshots of there telegram group discussions and as a result of banning of the people who initiated them.

Thanks fir this awareness but i will suggest you if ternio has already created an official announcement and it may better for to create another one on the ternio thread and this will pay attention from a lot of users.

I thought of doing that initially, but since over there thread they have the authority, they can delete my thread easily. I have initiated the discussions on telegram and as a result gets banned from there group. They're banning everyone who asks a single question regarding any of the points I mentioned on the main thread. Nevertheless I'll see if there's any official announcement from Ternio here and post a link to this thread.

You seem to make a lot of accusations about the project, so I assume that you are probably a bounty hunter that missed out on their free airdrop tokens because you didn't pay attention to Telegram group on how to claim the tokens. Putting that aside, I'll focus this response on the technology.
If you have done your due diligence on the Ternio platform, you will already know that the Lexicon blockchain was developed as a fork off Hyperledger Fabric (open source code). IBM is the market leader in deployment of permissioned enterprise grade blockchain technology, and of course, they use Hyperledger Fabric for their deployments.
Other than the code updates that Ternio has done to improve scalability of Hyperledger Fabric, they have also added a payment protocol layer (which Hyperledger Fabric doesn't have) to allow the future use of crypto payments to settle transaction payments. The most important thing to remember here is that the 1.2M tps was achieved in a PERMISSIONED environment using an enterprise grade blockchain. The team have repeatedly stated that companies running nodes for Lexicion would have to invest in the hardware necessary to maintain these high tps speeds - this will be major investments by large companies in the industry supply chain.
The audit of the Lexicon blockchain was done by a respected consultant who was associated with Accenture. He simply set up an LLC called Null Bash for his individual consultancy work. I believe the Ternio team has posted links to the consultant's LinkedIn profile on several occasions in the TG chat if you want to contact him directly.
Just a quick comment on the AWS Advanced Technology Partne status: If you read through Amazon's requirements to become an Advanced Technology Partner, you will note that it is a long process that also involves a review and "sign-off" on the technology by Amazon. To be honest, becoming an Advanced Technology Partner on the AWS platform is actually a big deal and gives an enormous amount of credibility to the Ternio project and Lexicon platform.

Anyway, my recommendation to you is to accept the fact that you missed out on claiming your airdrop tokens and start to focus on the technology and partnerships that the Ternio team signing. This might help you see the light!!!

You are saying exactly what the admins are telling on the group. But does it answered any of the questions I asked?
Where's the proof to 1M TPS blockchain? Have you read there audit report? They have been audited by NullBash which doesn't exist. Try asking these questions in there telegram group, and you'll get a ban too. They banned me coz I was asking about NullBash and audit report authentication.

Now coming to the bounty hunter part. They asked everyone to create a LOBSTR account and airdrops will be sent there. Then they changed it at the last moment and didn't sent any email. Also They have never mentioned in there website that all those need to do KYC after 10 months. Now I'll tell you why it's not fair:
1. It's almost 10+ months since referrals registered. Many of them now won't even remember registering.
2. Market is bearish for all this while and hence people are no longer interested that much in crypto and doing KYC.
3. Since many have joined for airdrops and if they didn't won during airdrop, why would they do KYC? They're not getting anything by doing KYC now.

9-10 months delay is too much for anyone to remember registering on a website. They keep on changing the rules made by them only in the beginning.

Please read my entire thread and try to understand the reasons. Where are there 3 top 10 exchanges which were claimed by them during ICO? Isn't that the violation of SEC rules?
I'm going to file a court case too against them, looking for that option too. Since ICO doesn't come clearly under SEC in USA, I'm in talk with one lawyer on how to proceed with it.

Lastly, why are they banning people asking questions to them? Since Ian messaged in the group that he's ready to answer in the telegram group, ask him to unban me, my telegram username is @hemendrachauhan19. I'll ask these questions to him and see his reply and then decide for yourself.

I think the mistake you are making is getting hung up on the Null Bush piece. You need to look at the credentials of the consultant that did the audit testing, rather than the name of his LLC. I have multiple LLC's for different businesses I own, but none of them have a website under the LLC name.

As far as the referral token distribution goes, the team have repeatedly stated that there was a lot of fraud in the referral process (which is no surprise) and they want to weed out the fraud to protect all token holders. I think you need to just trust the team on that - I have been part of the community since the very early days and had over 800 referrals. I know all of mine are legitimate, but would rather wait to receive the token distribution if it means that less tokens are distributed to fraudsters since that will benefit the value of my tokens!!!

I am not hung on just NullBash, please read the entire thread, there are more than 13 points covering everything from airdrops/referrals/auditing/partnership.

Haven't they promised that 3 top 10 exchange have approved Ternio. Why not a single listing till now? Isn't that cheating?
What about unsold ICO tokens promised to be distributed to ICO participants? Why they are banning people from group asking about it?
They are changing all the rules they made before the start of a program. They promised and didn't delivered on there promises. Obviously people are going to ask questions and that's what I did, and get banned for same.

Now about referral, I have told you why more than 90% of the people won't do KYC after 10 months. If you think I'm wrong on any of those points please tell me, I'm more than happy to know your view on it.

It's not about only referrals, it's about chain of rules change that they are doing. What are the stats on the airdrop tokens? What will happen to the unclaimed airdrop tokens? They have changed the rules so that they'll keep all the unclaimed tokens.

I have to reply, I can't help it...

You seem to make a lot of assumptions about this poor guy.  So many that it required you to come out of an 11 month hiatus from posting on this site, just for this reply.

I got banned from Ternio's telegram and I didn't even FUD...  (after I got banned I had some choice words for people but that's a different story).

Carry on.

Instead of handling users queries, they're just banning them accusing of FUD spreading. They are changing rules every now and then and they also want that no one should raise questions on that.

I don't think it's a new thing about the scam activities we see done by many ICO companies, I actually gave up in making purchase of ICO coins after 2017 when I experienced bitconnect major scam and also other coin I made purchase of that didn't even make it to the exchange even though they were able to raise the amount of money needed to build the project.

Many investors are already giving up on ICO scam companies and it's also a very good thing that we are seeing IEO replacing ICO which is much more better.

James,

I don't normally post on this site, but felt a duty to defend the Ternio team from the accusations being leveled against them in this thread. Just because someone missed out on claiming their airdrop tokens does not justify calling the project a scam. The Ternio team is an incredibly hardworking group, so I think they deserve some respect.
If somebody started posting that CyperFM was a scam, I'm sure you would want people to defend your project also.
Let's all just try and get along shall we??

I don't understand why you are just focusing on airdrop tokens. Let me clear out that for you, I did received my airdrop tokens. I can show you my stellar transaction too for the same. Why don't you read the entire thread and try to understand that airdrop/referral was one of the issues.

In fact yesterday itself one of the guy deposited 2000 XLM and asked Ian in which exchange buy order happened as it's not happened on stellar decentralized exchange nor on bitforex, Ian and Daniel replied that we do not disclose that. I am pretty sure they are getting all the BTC/ETH/XLM deposits and giving the TERN tokens from there reserve of tokens, so no realy buying happening on any exchange. Whereas they have previously said that all the deposits on blockcard will be executed as buy order on exchange. And then they banned that guy since he was giving all the proofs that there's no buy order executed on any of the exchange.

You're not getting how smartly they're scamming the people. They're keeping all the blockcard crypto deposits for themselves and distributing TERN from there reserves and not through buy orders on exchange. Thereby keeping the value of the tokens at it's bay. Ask them how much btc/eth/xlm people have deposited for blockcard and ask for the subsequent filled buy requests, they'll ban you immediately.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on the BlockCard transactions. I can tell you that I have spent many hours mapping out the transaction history of all the active Ternio wallets, including the BlockCard wallets, as part of my due diligence. This is not hard to do, but it IS time consuming. I believe I have a good understanding of how the process works and have used my knowledge to find opportune times to buy additional TERN since there is a manual (with a time delay) part to the process.
If you spend the time to do your own research, you will find all the answers you're looking for.

If you have done your research and feel comfortable that it's correct, I'm more than happy to know how this is happening. As far as my understanding and research goes, I'm not seeing any buy happening on any exchange. Yes it's time consuming and it becomes even more difficult since there's no data provided by the team on how many btc/eth/xlm has been deposited so far. I have tried to track around 40-50 new wallets created after blockcard launch and noted the time of there Tern deposit and matching it with buy happened at that time on stellar decentralized exchange, but not found any link between them.

Why team don't want to clear air surrounding this question? Why are they always saying it's magic, we won't disclose any detail on it? What's there to hide?
And then banning those who are asking these questions again as they're not answering that. It's going like this, you can ask question once and they'll answer with we won't disclose it, if you ask again you'll get a ban.

I don't want to drag this discussion out, so this will be my last post on the topic. I would just like to ask you a simple question: If you had a proprietary method/procedure for a business model, would you want to disclose the "nuts and bolts" of it to the world so that anyone else could copy it?
We live in a competitive world where proprietary information has value - it can mean the difference between success and failure in a start-up business.

Have you read the latest news story about Ternio's joint venture with Distribued Ledger? If not, take a look:
https://www.enterprisetimes.co.uk/2019/03/13/ternio-and-distributed-ledger-form-dlt-ventures-jv-for-media-banking-and-telecom/

I'm asking you what comes after alphabet "A" and you're answering 2+2 equals 4.
They have never shown anything about there proprietary method/procedure till now to anyone. They're saying that they filed a patent request but not going to show that to anyone. If a patent is filed why are they hiding it instead of embracing it? Nobody is going to know about the technology simply by reading a patent, if that's the case patents would never been public at the first place. They're publicly visible for a reason.

I can tell you the links of the patents filed by the Apple and Google, feel free to read them and use there "nuts and bolts" to create similar product. Theory is one thing, one could read there theory but couldn't use it to create a replica. Even if they do, they're still liable to fall under the Patent breach.

If there's a patent filed, give the link to the same. Matter closed. But they will never do that, coz there's no patent. It's a lie like there exchange listing talks.

They  have started an airdrop and asked everyone to create an stellar   wallet, preferable on LOBSTR as they have some kind of partnership with   LOBSTR team. They have told everyone for the 4-5 months that airdrop   tokens will be sent to LOBSTR account after 6 months of ICO end. ICO   ended on 15th june so distribution was supposed to happen around mid   december. But then they changed there decision at the beginning of   december and asked people to create an account for there new product   "Blockcard" and airdrops will be sent there only. They didn't send any   email to the participants of airdrop stating the same, only informed it   on telegram group. Since airdrop was going to happen after 6 months,   many people were not active on telegram and waiting to get it on there   LOBSTR wallet. But when they didn't received any token in dec 2018, they   asked about it on telegram and got a surprise that nothing can be   happen now. They started banning the people who ask about missing the   airdrop. Founders keep those unclaimed airdrop tokens for themselves.
They  also have a referral program running and for each referral they're   giving 50 TERN tokens. The rule was simple that people need to register   on there website and that's it. No KYC required, no ICO investment   needed, no condition of joining there telegram group either. After 10   months of referral program being ended, when people asked about referral   tokens, one of the founder "Ian Kane" said that all the referrals had   to go through KYC. I asked them personally many a times that why  someone  will do KYC after 10 months of initial registration, they've no  reply  of that. When many people started saying it's not fair and they  have to  come up with other solution, they started banning the people.  Everybody  knows that more than 90% of people are not going to do KYC  after  10months and mos probable they would have forget about  registering on  ternio. So founders are keeping all these tokens for  themselves.
Here's the link to the referral stats - http://stats.ternio.io   which has been taken down now so no one can see there referral count.   But few people have around 2k referrals and some have 1k+ referrals.   While the site was up I calculated that around 6M referral tokens was   supposed to be distributed. Now they are keeping 90% of them for   themselves.

when you ask them , they will ban you.

Have you even read the detailed thread? Why don't you read back the entire thread and let me know how many answers you have, feel free to ask the same queries in there telegram group and see if you get banned or not.
Blockcard was never the part of initial development, why all focus now on blockcard and not on there claimed 1M TPS blockchain? Where's a single company using there blockchain?
Now coming back to your point of free tokens, first of all it wasn't free, I spent more than a month asking people to look into there project and register if they find it worth investing. If a company is blocking there members asking questions around those points which they themselves claimed initially, what does that mean?

Go ahead and search there telegram group and you'll find videos where Daniel himself claimed multiple times about 3 top 10 exchanges and 3 worldwide known companies going to use there blockchain. And now they're banning people asking the same, do you think it's ok?

I'll jump in on this one(just found this post)
I was a Telegram mod for about a year for them when i finally figured how the team was basically stealing from investors and crippling the market.
They have stated, and it is written down that when you load your BlockCard with btc,eth,bch..etc, that the Ternio will be bought automatically off the market at the next selling price(thus causing the price to rise due to demand)
However what i found was that the team is pocketing the crypto, and loading your Tern from their private holdings(thus flooding the market even more)
I called them out and got dis-charged/banned..i expected that.
Oh hell yeah they are a scam

Yeah? well how about how they take HUGE chunks of my deposits (30-60%!!!), with no explanation then ban me from their telegram group for asking about it, and delete my comments? Honest businessmen don't need to delete comments. They are left for everyone to see, and see how they responded.  These guys just try to feed you a ridiculous line of bullshit, then ban you and delete everything.
Credibility my *%$ they are crooks!

Funny how you just signed up to write this post, and your style of writing strongly resembles Mr. Ian Kane. Coincidence I'm sure.

This thread should be taken down? Censored? That is what you are saying?
What kind of people are in favor of censorship?
People who are not doing wrong never support censorship, even when the comments are brutal lies that affect them negatively, honest people NEVER jump to censorship. Why would they? It's a perfect opportunity to air things out, set things straight, unless the comments are truth. That's when people want censorship.

These Blockcard folks love some censorship. Go watch their telegram page and you will see it in action. Anyone says anything negative they are banned and their comments deleted.

I'll chime in because I use BlockCard as well AND took the time to read this whole thread. 

1) BlockCard and Ternio are definitely not a scam.
2) A lot of the criticisms said here are completely untrue or inaccurate.  Anyone doing even minor due diligence can see that.
3) You can't complain about a company just because a crypto price value went down.  I don't call Vitalik or Ethereum a scam because ETH is down.

This thread seems like it's designed just to spread FUD or hurt the reputation of the company.  I'm not saying you didn't lose some value in your balance, but the company didn't take it from you.  Crypto value fluctuates and that's how blockcard markets itself.  Users get to stay in crypto until they spend.

Also, i've never seen anyone banned from their telegram unless the user was asking for it.  Usually it's people who are abusive to the moderators or just cursing a lot.

I'm all for pointing out scams, but anyone doing even some level of diligence can see blockcard isn't one.

Just my two cents.  :D

If the value drops after i make a deposit then it will reflect that in my balance. No big deal, none of us has a problem with that. The problem is when I deposit say $200, and $150 shows up in my account. It will even show a $200 deposit in my history, but only $150 shows up in my account. Where did that other $50 go? I can find no answer anywhere, and if I ask them about it I get no response. If I go to their telegram room and ask about it I get banned.
If you use your blockcard then surely you have noticed this issue.
On top of that they are keeping the value low on purpose. They take my bitcoins, give me a far lesser value in ternio, from their own holdings, so it drives the price down, and they profit from that.

If you have never seen anyone banned then you just haven't been watching. It is only obvious when the person is irate, using foul language or whatever. When someone quietly asks a question, are quietly banned, and their question deleted nobody notices.

The card uses TERN.  Just look at the amount of TERN you hold.   Then compare it to the other trading pairs on CoinGecko.  BTC/TERN is worth more than XLM/TERN relative to USD.  I'm pretty sure the company doesn't want to keep their TERN value low  ::)   I see the value fluctuate pretty consistently.

I've seen people banned, but it's always been people who deserved it.  No one is banned just for asking a normal question.  I actually think the team is more patient and transparent then they need to be with people.  The ones that get banned come into a chat and call blockcard a scam (aka this thread) or are cursing at the admins. 

Like I said, just my two cents. 

I've been researching BlockCard and I'll put this publicly available information out here for those who want to do their due diligence. Offering >6% cashback on a card is a "too good to be true" scheme. The company has to profit more than that to pass on the >6% rewards. For someone to get 6% rewards, someone else has to lose >6%.

For a blockcard transaction to take place, TERN has to be sold to convert it to USD to make the purchase. So there has to be a seller of TERN (the blockcard user) and a buyer of TERN who is willing to pay USD from its deposits (Ternio). This is how this whole play seems to take place, you can trace all the transactions in each wallet's trades and offers:


AZUF https://stellar.expert/explorer/public/account/GBXJXJGMEXLWNMXR3QIV7HLQHW7C5GANYYCZ3YEHMK4ZGZUPI22SAZUF (https://stellar.expert/explorer/public/account/GBXJXJGMEXLWNMXR3QIV7HLQHW7C5GANYYCZ3YEHMK4ZGZUPI22SAZUF) = USDD issuing authority
This is the USDD issuing authority controlled by Ternio. Has transferred $6,000,000 USDD to N7H2 over time.


N7H2 https://stellar.expert/explorer/public/account/GARBGDV6QQW3GNRQUM4RBI6YLAJYV45QUDKHOCNLTZD4XW5LEPRON7H2 (https://stellar.expert/explorer/public/account/GARBGDV6QQW3GNRQUM4RBI6YLAJYV45QUDKHOCNLTZD4XW5LEPRON7H2) = Ternio’s functional USDD wallet
This holds USDD to buy TERN from IVDX each time a blockcard debit card is used thus essentially paying the $ for debit card transaction to go through. Also buys TERN from VSAA


IVDX https://stellar.expert/explorer/public/account/GCAVYLHJEFLCMGYTB524LUWGSLLVNIZ6CSUTZ6UXJZCQ3JTRM5EOIVDX (https://stellar.expert/explorer/public/account/GCAVYLHJEFLCMGYTB524LUWGSLLVNIZ6CSUTZ6UXJZCQ3JTRM5EOIVDX) = Blockcard users' collective TERN wallet
This is the collective TERN wallet for all blockcard users which holds TERN. It sells TERN at the time of a blockcard debit card transaction to N7H2 or VSAA to convert to USDD.


VSAA https://stellar.expert/explorer/public/account/GBMSJSF6EWZCRYRTGMD654WPRG53PDU4CWBRU35KUYUSCBZNT6XXVSAA (https://stellar.expert/explorer/public/account/GBMSJSF6EWZCRYRTGMD654WPRG53PDU4CWBRU35KUYUSCBZNT6XXVSAA) = Mediator which keeps profiting (this is the key to why blockcard is sustainable for Ternio)
This keeps making transactions in cycles essentially profiting by arbitrage in a captive market controlled solely by Ternio
First: Sells its TERN to N7H2 at higher price
Then: Immediately buys back TERN from IVDX at lower price, thus fleecing the users.
The profit margin for VSAA is usually 14.3% (buys at 0.007, sells at 0.008) or 16.6% (buys at 0.006, sells at 0.007) usually. Thus users collective lose this % to Ternio as they make transactions. While an individual may get 6% profit, looking at the entire user base collectively shows that they will lose money to Ternio. Since USDD is solely controlled by Ternio, it is safe to assume these profits belong to Ternio as the any wallets with authorized USDD trustlines can only belong to Ternio.



One may argue that the profits from this arbitrage is coming at the cost of N7H2 which is Ternio's USDD wallet, so it is Ternio which is losing money. Keep in mind that N7H2 is a representation of users' deposits. Ternio has to return this USDD deposit when users make transactions using their blockcards. In a way N7H2 is the assets Ternio holds to balance its liabilities held in the IVDX wallet. Without forced arbitrage these would be equal. The only reason Ternio can make profits is because it has a captive USDD:TERN market where only it can operate and is free to conduct arbitrage without competition at the collective cost of its users.

Nice diligence here.  ;D  A few comments.

1) I wouldn't say 6% rewards are "too good to be true" when BlockFi and Celsius offer 8% for staking.  However, it's very competitive and the best for a crypto card by far.

2) The 6% requires a TERN stake which is why I'm more confident that it's related more to staking then orderbook trade.  For example, I stake 145,000 TERN and that costs me $1200 which drives the price up.  If i plan to keep using Blockcard its a great deal because I can profit from others staking but earn rewards short term as well.

Staking TERN at this level makes a lot of sense as it's relatively cheap.

3) The biggest issue I have with your math is that it does not accurately reflect the conversion.  I can go buy TERN on Whitebit or another exchange at 0.07 and deposit it directly on to the card.  As long as I spend at 0.07 then I'm always good, regardless of the orderbook.

1) Do you understand how Blockfi is able to award 8%? They loan out your crypto and charge a higher interest rate to borrowers and pass on a part of it to you. This is not the same as what is being offered by blockcard. "Unlimited" 6% cashback for just $1200 stake.

2) The TERN stake is meaningless. You can give them a $1200 fee. Then go spend $100,000 and make $6000 in cash back. How does a company pay you $6000 for staking just $1200? "Too good to be true". Also if you have to depend on others putting in money, it makes it a pyramid scheme. The day others stop putting in money, you lose your money.

3) Doesn't change anything. They are still able to conduct arbitrage in a captive market. The "spending" of TERN on the blockcard is ONLY related to USDD:TERN market which is captive where I have clearly pointed you to the ongoing arbitrage. Don't trust what I'm saying - look at the transactions yourself.

But hey, you do you!

1) No need to be defensive.   I'm just saying that you can't call something too good to be true just because you don't understand how it works.

2) What happens when the price of TERN increases?  The cost of the stake goes up as well.  I do agree that you can spend $100,000 and make $6,000.   It's actually a pretty sweet deal if you're in early.   I just think the cost of the stake will increase significantly as the value of TERN rises.  Everyone won't be able to afford it.

3) Arbitrage what?   I buy TERN for $0.007 and spend at $0.007.  There is no arbitrage when my buy/sell price is same.  Just like if I buy BTC for $10,000 and sell for $10,000 my arb is 0.

1) I understand how it works and described it in detail. It seems you are the one who isn't able to fully grasp the way Ternio is able to award 6%. If you have proof that what I wrote is inaccurate, please provide an explanation of why you are calling it inaccurate.

2) TERN price can increase but as long as arbitrage continues to take place, TERNIO continues to make profit and pass on a fraction of it to the user.

3) Please read the original post. The collective user base loses money. While you as an individual may profit, there has to be another individual who loses more money for you to profit.

If you don't wish to look into the facts and trust TERNIO with your money, that is absolutely fine by me. The facts are the facts regardless of what you or I opine.

1) Your explanation doesn't make any sense.  I have literal first hand experience buying TERN at $0.007 and spending at $0.007-0.008.  Yes, at a profit. 

2) Above you said TERNIO is losing money, but now you say they are making money.  So which is it?

3) I did.   It seems like you're more interested in spreading FUD then actually dealing in facts.   ANYONE can go and try the card and see for themselves. You sound like you have an ax to grind with ternio.  Do you work for a ternio competitor?

Everyone seems to be ignoring the FACT that they taking 30-50% of deposits right off the top, and ignoring or feeding BS, banning and censoring people who complain.

I just deposited $300, transaction record at blockcard shows a $296 deposit. I had $54 in the account before making the deposit. After the deposit I have $250.27

This is pretty normal. Someone please give me a reasonable explanation for this that does not include these guys being total scammers.