Bitcoin Forum

Ah, faith, what an interesting term. On one hand it can and will cause you to turn a blind side, but on the other hand are payoffs you could not have imagined. I know skepticism is healthy, but why are people so quick in jumping off the bitcoin ship? I honestly believe that this technology, or what will come of it, will change the world. Freeing people from the source of all evil and suffering, money. Okay, maybe money isn't so bad, but the institutions that have arisen from it are arguably the cause of most contemporary world problems.

Back to the real question though, why so faithless?

I read somewhere that one of the early bitcoin developers said that between 2010 and 2014 there could be 1 to 4 bubbles.. Since there's is evidence that we just went through the first bubble( June 11') are there signs pointing towards another in the coming year? 


VIVA LA BITCOIN! Even at .10 cents a BTC you better stay true for the betterment of the human condition!

But really, thank's in advance for all input. :P

I haven't posted in a few months. I lost faith with all the security problems and the subsequent volatility in exchange value. I am now regaining faith in it though as the exchange rate has stabilized (I watch it every day on my Android phone). Bitcoin has been good to me. The phone I mentioned was purchased with Bitcoins. I've bought tea, a shirt, a watch, all sorts of things. Sold a lot too. As I learn about digital security and care about my privacy, Bitcoin becomes more and more something I want to keep in my life. Plus I think it's awesome that I can spend it anywhere from my phone.

Hey Atlas!

Bitcoin is still seen as a high risk investment, with the rampant crisis in the world less people want to invest in it...

It makes sense to lose faith. Believing in something because of "faith" just means believing in it because you want it to be true.

If Bitcoin users were losing reason, that would be something to worry about.

What's in it for me?

The Mt Gox hacks were particularly damaging.   Another issue is your "reference point."  I think these things started at $.06 and now are $3 - wildly successful.  Unfortunately most of the marginal adopters/recent buyers bought at prices much above current market, which is deterring them.  I'm underwater but view the current levels as very attractive.

Considering OWS on the left and the Ron Paul types on the right, it seems that the entire world will fumble it's way towards bitcoins.  Especially since very small transactions are viable and costless with bitcoin.  Every night I watch the news, I get more resolute that bitcoins will succeed. 

Currently the aggregate value is $22.5 million.  I can envision the worldwide transaction demand for bitcoins reaching $1-2 billion.  People want to opt out of the banking system and bitcoins are the most obvious substitute, imo.

Feel free to add to or challenge my points listed above.

I won't say I exactly lost faith in Bitcoin but, after all the security problems with the exchanges and the online wallets, I grew concerned enough to back away a bit. Market volitility didn't scare me since I expected that with Bitcoin being a new currency. It's going to have growing pains.

I think we're facing a few major problems with the currency that we will need to work hard as a community to overcome:

1. Education. Most people don't even know that Bitcoin exists, why it exists, and why it's a better alternative that the money in their pocket. Hell, most people don't even understand the basics of why the money in their pocket is bad and unsustainable. We're going to have to address this bit time and repeatedly.

2. Criminality. Of the segment of the population that knows about Bitcoin, a good portion of them have been convinced that it's just an instrument to allow criminals to buy and sell stuff anonymously. Sure, you could tell them that cash is the exact same thing but they will see an exception as to why Bitcoin is the 'perfect thing for doing evil'. I've run into this mindset a lot over the last year or so. The media isn't helping and this might just overlap with the education need.

3. Physical access. There's just not a lot of real world 'hard' things available for purchase with Bitcoin. I love that there's a guy here selling beans for Bitcoin. That's the kind of stuff we need! Even if we overcome the first two points above, access to real world stuff is going to be a BIG reason why people don't use Bitcoin. Only the community can fix this.

So I'm not sure 'losing faith' is a good way to put the problem. I think a small portion of the community, probably those already on the fence about it, lost faith and jumped ship, but the true believers are still here and will be here. Now, it's just a matter of bringing along our friends an neighbors.

Regards,
TMA

+1 on all of your 3 points. I think education and physical access will be the two things to shoot Bitcoins into the stratosphere.

I think the problems with security should have been anticipated by people in a network that deals with a virtual currency. I think the fact the prices have stabilized a bit means people do still believe in Bitcoins and where the market goes from here is anyones guess. Since they are making apps for cell phones and other portable devices to transfer bitcoins I think the future of bitcoins will be bright. I think as someone said the only way to kill bitcoins is for everyone to stop mining all at once which I don't see happening in the immediate future.

The real thing that amazes me is that with the OWS movement Bitcoins haven't increased significantly in price.

Too many people have invested too much time to give it up. Think of all the services and websites out there that use BTC's.

I myself have $30-$40k worth of hardware for mining BTC's, NMC's and SC's simultaneously. I'm averaging about $40 a day, and my monthly electric bill for the whole house averages $250 a month.


For me it's like a walk-in-the-park part time job that I enjoy, plus it's quite profitable.


BTC's will be around for many years to come IMO.

I mean come on, people crunch SETI and fold @ home for FREE! Might as well do something similar and get PAID!

I haven't realized someone could be that retarded.  :o

Why not? I pay $275 for brand new 6970's,,, $190 for 6950's,,,, they earn me more than they depreciate.


I can very easily sell off my systems as gaming rigs, and part out the rest on ebay.


How is that retarded? Liquid assets FTW

Like seriously, I can sell my USED 6970's for about the same as what I paid.

17.8 GH/s is how I roll.  :D

You are most likely a sockpuppet troll, but in case the one in a million chance hits me: Try mining LTC for a change. SC srsly  ::)

If you don't believe, see my other threads I started. The one with pics of the 7 rigs drawing 7 KW in my garage.

I've tried LTC, don't like it.

I prefer merged mining BTC's + NMC's and with my CPU's  ($140 I pay for X6 1100T's / $240 for 2600k's) I mine SC's.

I know the owner of a large distributor in town. I pay under cost. Long story, but I'm 30 years old and have no reason to BS on the internet.


http://members.shaw.ca/dfilipowitz/004.JPG

FTFY.

Please explain why it is an investment?

Probably because the majority of the people who own Bitcoins have them because of the greater fool theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory).

Very low risk investment if you get good deals on parts.

They make great gaming systems should you decide to sell them.


Remember people, if you invest $20k for example, you still have the hardware to show for it.

I've been mining since May, generated over $10k. I can easily break even on the money I invested in all the hardware if I were to sell it. - Low risk if you ask me.


P.S. Why the hate and assumptions of me BS'ing?

> Why are people losing faith?

I don't think they are.

Bitcoin will continue to decrease in value to real world money until people actually start using it for something.

Huh?
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade

On an interesting Note: Lots of depreciated links, about half of them are either offline or weren't updated/worked on for over a month. This really shows that the wrong people were attracted to it during the hyperbolic rise and we are indeed at a bubble collapse instead of a correction.

And this comment is actually pretty insightful: We need an autonomous economy not some payment processing or greater fool pump & dump.

I am not losing faith.  In fact, I am trying to buy as many cards I see on eBay from quitters!

Which ones? I just clicked on all of the links of "Getting started (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade#Getting_started)" and "Local/In-Hand Exchanges (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade#Local.2FIn-Hand_Exchanges)" and they worked. If you found anyone finds a LOT, I'd be open to using some of mine and organizing a bounty to fix them.

(EDIT: See response below)

Well click yourself through... I mean, most of them aren't actually offline, but just haven't been worked on since they have been created or weren't worked on recently. It's like those bitcoin comics, bitcoin weekly, and so on which were all great projects but have just been left dead.

And if nothing changes this going to look like a post .com bubble geocities graveyard. Or actually not once the domain runs out, some of it will be gone, we will know after a few month after the first ones start expiring.

As for your bounty: Good idea, but I wouldn't know where to start... I'd rather support remaining, services which _have_ been active the whole time.

I am not losing faith too. I think now is the best time for mining. Difficulty is pretty low.

I definitely lost a lot of faith in the mining area, but after being referred to this forum I think I might have renewed faith, at least to a point.

I think it's a natural cycle. Too many people jumped on board as an investment opportunity, they wanted to sit back and cash in. The truth is, the people mining the coin should also be promoting the coin. We need it circulating to make it real (for lack of a better word). Hoarding and playing the exchanges isn't enough. We need non-tech people to start using it somehow.

We need easier ways to BUY them. I think trading them for online game currencies would be a nice market, there are  alot of gamers here and  alot out there looking to sell their gold

And more things to spend them on. Like you sell golds for btc, you spend btc to buy games.

And perhaps a reason to buy. Feel free to tweet why I, or anyone else, should.

I think we need both easier ways to buy them, and more reasons to buy as well (more products and services that can be purchased with BTC)

Purely down to implementation in my opinion. The core bitcoin protocols are theoretically very sound it is how they are used at the moment that are the problem eg... MtGox hack( under protected wallets ). If you are not a technical person it can be very hard to take the steps necessary to protect your wallet from theft either local or remote which can means that people cannot trust the system fully.

Oh yeah and also virtually no one accepts them as payment so even if your wallet is fully secure its gonna be hard to find anything to do with them :P

And a large majority of the people who do fall under one of two categories

re-resellers (people who buy from a reseller to sell to you)

bitcoin-propaganda (well, not really propaganda, but people who sell crap like bitcoin gold coins, bitcoin watches, bitcoin stuff...)

+1

It's because the #1 BTC exchange, MTgox, is complete shit and will be hacked again.

I don't trust any exchange with any significant amount. I leave that to the day traders to take the risks. They don't seem to mind. I've noticed that right before or after a rally there are movements of millions of Bitcoin, presumably to/from mtgox.

Is their an y major banks who deal with bitcOins

AFAIK, bitcoin had a quick boom and an even quicker fall this year. But, now it's actually more valuable then before the boom. Newbs can lose faith when they realize that they can't have a bank protecting them because they are their own banks

This is very true. Now it can be used for MUCH MORE things than before the boom

Does this really look like a doomed currency to anyone?
http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg360ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zv

Compared to what?

Bunnies!

I understand completely. Thank you.

Some people are just impatient i guess, not only because they lose their faith.

The bust from $30 to $2.30 and all the scams are a little disheartening.

Because too few developers.  >:(

The first time the value hit $5 it hit $30 within a month!