Bitcoin Forum

Hi,

I haven't used my cold Ledger Nano S for over a year now as I consider myself a Hodler not a Trader.

I understand I must have missed several firmwares/updates during this cold period.

The questions are:

- Are my Coins still safe and are straight away viewable when seeing balances when connecting or have they been affected in anyway by Forks or Coin Swaps that I have missed out on?

- How can I be sure for safety once I connect my ledger to my computer making it hot (connect to internet & computer electricity) from a long period of cold?

- Will not using the ledger hardware for long periods of time degrades the hardware components inside similar to a battery?

- Does Ledger still use the Chrome apps for its software? If not is it safe to delete those chrome apps?

- Can I use the old firmware ledger to connect with the new ledger live independent executable software or am I limited to the chrome app 1st if ledger still support chrome app add ons.

- At what stages do I require to re-enter my 24 recovery seed? What advice is given if a user is not sure on his/her 24 recovery seed?

- I understand ledger supports more than 1100 different coins however what does it mean if a coin doesn't have ledger live support? Also can I choose which of the 1100 types of altcoins I can view on the leger screen?

- Will the new ledger live software or new firmware reset anything from my old settings and if so what are resetted? Pins? Viewable currency settings etc?

- I remember on Chrome App it allowed to choose which chain for a coin. Does the new live ledger software still have this?

- Lastly what are the new features in the latest hardware firmware and does updating to new firmware delete and resets everything and requires 24 recovery seed?

Nothing really changed for the major coins. I can't say the same thing for the others because I don't hold nor follow them, so I don't know about any fork or coin swaps.

Just make sure you are using the latest version of the wallet you choose (e.g Ledger Live) and update your Ledger firmware as soon as possible.

Idk. But as long as you have your seed, everything will be alright regardless of what happens with your Nano S.

The Chrome apps are outdated and deprecated. AFAIK you can still use them, but it's not recommended.[/b]
They released their new desktop wallet called Ledger Live. See: https://shop.ledger.com/pages/ledger-live

Probably. But it's not recommended to keep using an old firmware or the Chrome apps. Try using the Ledger Live; then update your firmware as soon as possible and keep using it.

Only if anything happens when updating the firmware. But why are you not sure of your recovery seed? That's the main thing you should secure.
You could download the Recovery Check app on your Ledger - which will let you test your seed directly from the device and see if it's right.

Then you will have to use your Ledger with the wallet that supports it.
E.g: NEO isn't fully integrated to the Ledger Live, so you have to use it with the NEON wallet.

Yes. You only install the coins you want.

No. Only if there is any issue while updating it. See here for more info: https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002731113

Now there is an app for the BTC and one for the BCH fork.

Normally it doesn't reset. Again, see the link above for more info.

Hey,

I can answer most of them:

- Are my Coins still safe and are straight away viewable when seeing balances when connecting or have they been affected in anyway by Forks or Coin Swaps that I have missed out on?
Your coins are still safe and viewable. I don't think Ledger has supported any forks in the past year. I don't think they support swaps either since it is a cold storage.

- How can I be sure for safety once I connect my ledger to my computer making it hot (connect to internet & computer electricity) from a long period of cold?
Not sure what you mean by this but you'll be safe as long as you use their official software (or use Electrum) to connect with your Ledger.

- Will not using the ledger hardware for long periods of time degrades the hardware components inside similar to a battery?
I don't think the Ledger contains a battery so I doubt it will degrade in any way.

- Does Ledger still use the Chrome apps for its software? If not is it safe to delete those chrome apps?
They have switched to 'Ledger Live', which is downloadable on their website.

- Can I use the old firmware ledger to connect with the new ledger live independent executable software or am I limited to the chrome app 1st if ledger still support chrome app add ons.
I'm pretty sure old firmware will still work, although upgrading is highly advised (due to security reasons).

- At what stages do I require to re-enter my 24 recovery seed? What advice is given if a user is not sure on his/her 24 recovery seed?
You only need to use your seed if you do need to recover your wallet. You can always use your seed on a new Ledger to make a backup of your current wallet.

- I understand ledger supports more than 1100 different coins however what does it mean if a coin doesn't have ledger live support? Also can I choose which of the 1100 types of altcoins I can view on the leger screen?
Most of those are ERC20 tokens.

- Will the new ledger live software or new firmware reset anything from my old settings and if so what are resetted? Pins? Viewable currency settings etc?
Upgrading firmware will never reset your PIN since that would be a huge security flaw.

- I remember on Chrome App it allowed to choose which chain for a coin. Does the new live ledger software still have this?
Yes.

- Lastly what are the new features in the latest hardware firmware and does updating to new firmware delete and resets everything and requires 24 recovery seed?
You can find all change logs on the Ledger website. Updating firmware does not delete/reset anything.

All questions have already been answered by previous users.

Your 24 words recovery seed is the most important thing. You have to be absolutely certain that it is correct.
Why do you say that you are not sure about it? Did you misplace the sheet where you wrote it down?
You don't know the order of the words or can't you recognise what you wrote?

If you don't know your seed words and can't verify that they are correct I would suggest you move your funds into another address on a different wallet, like Electrum for your bitcoins, and create a new Ledger wallet making sure that you write down the seed properly and then move them back onto Ledger.

I still use the old Chrome apps on my Ledger Nano S, but many functions on the old software are broken like coin price (at least for me), and you're best off just switching over to Live. If you're trying to update your Nano S from an old version of the firmware, you'll need to first update to 1.4.2 before going to 1.5.5 as the support site for Ledger says here (click for link (https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002731113-Update-device-firmware)).

If you're trying to access ERC20 tokens on your Ledger, MyEtherWallet allows you to connect your Ledger Nano S to their web interface where you can send and receive ERC20 tokens securely. Click here (https://www.myetherwallet.com/access-my-wallet) for the link on the MEW site where you can do this.

Can I download and use Recovery Check App on old firmware?

That NEO example you gave you mean I have to download a separate NEO wallet from NEO website?

How many altcoins can I store on the ledger nano s? Is there enough space on the ledger nano s to store 1100+ altcoins? I remember I can only install few apps at a time as there wasn't enough space.

Probably (but I can't confirm). See more about it here: https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360007223753-Recovery-Check

Yes. Some coins aren't fully supported on the Ledger Live. This means that you can't Send/Receive coins just with the Ledger Live software.

You'll have to download a wallet for the coin that supports Ledger (NEON wallet in the case of NEO).
There is a list of wallets for each coin in this page: https://shop.ledger.com/pages/supported-crypto-assets

Unfortunately not many coins.

The new Ledger Nano X supports 100 coins app installed at the same time. While the Ledger Nano S only supports 3~5 (depending on which apps you want). But you can always uninstall the app and install a different one that no coins will be lost.

Example: you have the BTC and ETH app installed. But you want to manage NEO; you uninstall the ETH app, install the NEO and do what you want. Later, you can uninstall the NEO and install the ETH again. Every coin will be safe, and you just have to install the app again to see and spend them.

You sure and confirm that the 24 recovery seed won't be asked for during firmware update?

@very-numbers

Yes. As far as I remember I have never been asked to enter my 24 words seed to update/upgrade anything. And I don't see why it would need it.
People pretty well explained what you need, update first. And the HW components are still perfect even after years of inactivity ofc, it's not a cheap device made with Lidl components

Im on firmware 1.3.1 so how will this work?

No. Noone can confirm this for you.

If the update works as expected, no issues -> You don't have to reenter it.
However, if something fails, you will need to reenter your mnemonic code again.

You should NOT attempt to do an upgrade without having the 24 words. If you are not sure whether the words you have are the correct one, boot a live linux syste via USB on an disconnected computer (no internet) and check whether the words 1) are valid and 2) generate your addresses.




Simply start ledger live, and do the firmware upgrade. It will handle everything itself.

Connect your device, unlock it with your PIN and click on the Manager button from the main menu.
After that you will see a button where you can click on Update.

Here is a step-by-step walk through.
https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002731113-Update-device-firmware

You really need to take care of that problem you have with your seed. Don't avoid it! Even if Ledger doesn't ask for the seed words during the update process sometimes in the future the device might malfunction and you will have to reset it with your seed word. How are you going to do that without the correct words?

bob123&Pmalek, are you sure that OP can update firmware from 1.3.1 direct to 1.5.5? Ledger is say that even users with 1.4.1 need first to update to 1.4.2, so OP could have problems with such old version, especially if he is using Windows 7.

However, by the experience of these users they manage to update to latest firmware from old 1.3.1, but it lasted a little longer than usual.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/amix58/updating_nano_s_from_131_to_155/

The top reply in the reddit post you linked is from the CTO of ledger, stating:



My assumption is, that if you update your nano s via the ledger manager from 1.3.1, it automatically first updates to the needed version, before finally updating to 1.5.5. Like incremental updates.

Ledger live manager should handle the firmware updates automatically, so no user intervention (regarding firmware updates) should be necessary.
Just plugging in and updating firmware.

Ok can I download and use Recovery Check App on old firmware 1.3.1 before I update firmware just to make sure?

Unfortunately i don't know whether it works with 1.3.1.
But you could simply try it out. Open the ledger manager and browse the available Apps, search for 'recovery check'.

If it doesn't work (e.g. because the app is not available for your firmware version), you could download the site https://iancoleman.io/bip39/ (https://iancoleman.io/bip39/), then burn a live linux ISO on a bootable USB, boot from the USB and enter your seed into the downloaded site.
Then check whether the address produced matches with yours from ledger live.


The first option (recovery check app) is obviously easier. But definitely make sure you have the correct backup of your seed before proceeding with updating the firmware.

I can't see the recovery check app on the live manager.

---

What are the known problems with windows 7?

---

Is there a video or guide doing that bootable USB method? Entering my 24 seed onto a site is not safe right?


[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

Officially Ledger is not support Windows 7 : Compatibility (https://shop.ledger.com/products/ledger-nano-s) "64-bits desktop computer (Windows 8+, macOS 10.8+, Linux), excluding ARM Processors, or smartphone Android 7+. You will need an OTG kit to connect your Nano S to your desktop or smartphone."

In time when Ledger release new firmware and users update from 1.3.1, some users have problems with update process on Windows 7, it was mostly a problem with the drivers. I also have problems with Ledger Live after upgrade to 1.5.5, it just crash every time on my Windows 7 - but I did not try latest version of Ledger Live. It is possible that you would not have the same problems as me even if you use Windows 7.


If you are sure that your PC is clean from viruses / malware, then just download that tool to your PC and run it offline. But you should know that only correct and safe way is to enter seed on Ledger Nano S, everything else poses a risk. So if you want check correctness of seed safest method would be to download some desktop wallet and to send all coins to that wallet. After that just enter your PIN three times in a row wrong, and Nano S will reset.

Choose the option you are most comfortable with, and do this only if you are not 100% sure that you have correct seed.

Regarding bootable USB : How to Create a Bootable Linux USB Flash Drive, the Easy Way (https://www.howtogeek.com/howto/linux/create-a-bootable-ubuntu-usb-flash-drive-the-easy-way/)

Ok what about windows 7 64bit and can anyone confirm latest version of ledger live fixed windows 7 problems?

Officially, you still need at least Windows 8 64 bit to run Ledger Live properly. Nothing seems to have changed.

https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360006395553-Download-and-install-Ledger-Live

Windows 7 is still a widely used operating system.

Can any windows 7 users here confirm they had no problem updating old firmware 1.3.1 using ledger live?

Yes. But their support is almost over. Is there is any reason why you want to keep using Windows 7?

Everywhere people (and Ledger's devs) keep saying that Windows 7 isn't supported and doesn't work as intended (or work at all).

I don't have any device with Windows 7, so I can't confirm. But I've found this:

Maybe you could try.

Windows 7 is still used by by some 33% (http://gs.statcounter.com/windows-version-market-share/desktop/worldwide/) of users, and this is not small number. It is still a fully operational and secure operating system, but Ledger has decided not to adjust its products anymore to work with this OS. On the other side Trezor is supporting W7, and they will probably continue to do that until Microsoft provides official support (January 2020).

I can confirm that my attempt of updating firmware from 1.4.2 to 1.5.5 on Windows 7 did not succeed, it just stuck at some point so I finish process in Windows 10 in less then 1 minute.

Yeah, I have an old laptop which still runs Windows 7. I've tried Ledger Live on it a few times, and each time I run in to a variety of errors; crashing, won't opening, freezing, blank screen, etc. My favorite error was when it (for reasons unknown) completely failed at calculating fees and suggested I needed to pay something like 20 BTC for a 1-input-2-outputs transaction.

Your options are either to stop using Windows 7 (recommended for a variety of reasons), or to not use Ledger Live. Personally, I prefer using Electrum since it has both native SegWit support and allows proper UTXO management, neither of which Ledger Live does.

I fixed that for you.

Honestly, windows 7 is far away from being a secure OS.
If you compare it to windows 10, it is basically an open barn door screaming 'i am vulnerable'.

Windows 10 has a superior concept with less flaws and more security tools / features (e.g. EMET (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_Mitigation_Experience_Toolkit)). Almost every windows 7 computer which is connected to the internet can be compromised with a quite low amount of effort.

There is no need to correct something, this is your opinion and I have my own. Windows 10 is only better in terms of collecting more information from users, actually in legal spying. Windows 7 still has support from Microsoft, and I do not see any problem to use it for now. I also do not feel even a little vulnerable, all my software is up to date and so far no hacker is knocking on my "barn door".

Only thing that is not working is Ledger Live, but there is a solution for every problem.

Unfortunately this is not a matter of opinion.

Windows 7 is missing quite a few security features, which are present in windows 10.

While it might be true that windows 10 has some 'features' which collect data for 'enhancing user experience', all of them can be turned off.
Turning off the data collection in windows 10 is way easier than getting win7 to be as secure as win10 is.

You are right about Windows 7 being outdated and unsecure, and you are right about Windows 10 being better in this regard. But even turning off all tracking features in Windows 10 does little to prevent it collecting your data.

There's plenty of evidence out there that Windows 10 is calling home constantly, even if you turn off Cortana (https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/even-when-told-not-to-windows-10-just-cant-stop-talking-to-microsoft/) and even if you tweak all the security settings (https://thehackernews.com/2016/02/microsoft-windows10-privacy.html). That's not to say Windows 7 isn't doing similar things, but the problem is much worse in Windows 10. Of course, that's not an argument for sticking with Windows 7 however.

Long story short: Stop using Windows.

That's insane. Microsoft is slowly on their way being a bigger data kraken than google.. And to achieve that, you really have work for it..




+1 for this.
The only reliable way.

Ok I was thinking of taking the ledger nano s to a friend computer with windows 10 however I don't know how secure is computer is so my only option on my friends windows 10 computer is safe mode with networking?

Also can anyone confirm windows 7 safe mode with networking allowed the firmware update?

It doesn’t matter if his PC is secure. That’s the beauty of a hardware wallel.

Why don’t you try? :P

This applies to using the wallet, not to updating the wallet.

If the firmware updates aren't signed (which i think they aren't, because people already have been able to flash their own firmware onto the nano s), his friend could (if he wanted to be malicious) have a malicious version of ledger live installed on his computer and a malicious firmware update prepared.
OP would then 'update' his nano s with a malicious firmware.

Of course, the next time OP would access the nano s with a non-malicious version of ledger live, he would get a message stating that the firmware is not genuine.
But at the computer of his friend, all would look normal.


I know, that's quite a stretch. And one shouldn't have such friends. But updating a hardware wallet is not always secure. You need a clean / trustworthy computer to do so.


Edit:
It seems, the nano s does indeed check whether the firmware (to be installed) is signed by ledger.
Somehow weird, i thought people were able to flash own firmware onto the nano s...

Oh well.. hence, my theoretical attack is not possible. And currently i can't think of why updating the nano s on an compromised computer could pose a risk.

Nobody can steal the funds from your hardware wallet unless they know your PIN or seed. Even if the PC you are using is infected with malware a hacker would need physical access to your device and would need to push the buttons on it to be able to get to your coins. Your seed is not saved on the device and your private keys never leave the device so you are safe.

The only thing you should worry about is if the address you create on your Ledger is the same as the one that you copy/paste when sending a transaction but that is why it is important to verify it on the Ledger screen. But that is not what you are doing now since you are looking to update your firmware first. 

Ok then how is it possible for hackers or law enforcement to gain access to your coins on the nano s if that is the case? I did hear stories hackers getting access to coins on ledger nano s hardware and regular upcoming firmware updates means old version is not secure and can be hacked.

Where did you hear about the hackers who can access coins on ledger nano s? Never heard them except for Trezor wallet.
Regular update on their firmware doesn't mean that they are changing ledger nano S security the fact is they are always adding more features and
coins and they improve security but not always it depends if they found some security hole and fix the issue with a new firmware.

Ledger.com is always releasing a new firmware note or post publicly if there is a new feature added or changes like this one https://www.ledger.com/2019/01/16/ledger-releases-a-new-nano-s-firmware-update/
So you will know if the reason for releasing new firmware is because of security or not.

I never heard stories about law enforcement "hacking" their way into a Ledger device. If that was possible the devices would be worthless. Maybe law enforcement got court orders and received the necessary access details from the device owners.

The Ledger software gets updated like any other software. Those are both stability and security updates, improvements etc. An update doesn't mean that the previous version is hackable and you will lose your coins unless you update.     

'Hacking' into the nano s is indeed not possible without some high level 0-day exploits.

What i can think of, is that law enforcement agencies had a warrant, and were able to seize all necessary things (e.g. nano s + pin somewhere written o paper or mnemonic code).
I can't imagine them technically hacking into the nano s to gain access to the BTC.

Ok can anyone confirm windows 7 safe mode with networking will work?

If not will windows 10 safe mode with networking will work?

You already asked that question.

And you received an answer:


Why did you wait 3 days until now, instead of trying out for 10 minutes ?

Just wanted to be safe than sorry. I can try but fear of bricking my nano s if I do it.

They're actually pretty difficult to hard "brick"... and if you have your 24 word seed, then you still have a safe full wallet backup which will enable you to recover your funds if something does go wrong.

If you're concerned about using Windows 7, you could always try and use a live linux distro... run Ubuntu from a "live" USB drive and connect/update your Ledger that way. Might be "safer" than trying to run Ledger Live on an unsupported OS and have it crashing unexpectedly.

Creating/Running a live linux distro is relatively easy these days... refer: https://tutorials.ubuntu.com/tutorial/tutorial-create-a-usb-stick-on-windows

Ok is Ubuntu the best live linux distro out there? Im looking for a live linux distro thats user friendly like windows you know what I mean and how do I install Ledger Live on Linux?

I don't think there is such a thing as "best distro". Ubuntu or Linux Mint should do the trick.

To install Ledger Live on Linux:
https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360006395553-Download-and-install-Ledger-Live

Ok is a live linux distro off usb means it is like a ROM as in like cd-rom where nothing is written to the usb meaning whenever I restart linux I have to download and install ledger live over and over again whenever I wanna use it after computer restart?

If so can anyone confirm whether windows 7 safe mode with networking works as the above method seems tedious.

So far it's not looking good for ease of use factor for hardware wallets and if bitcoin wants to grow to the masses this inconvenience needs to be removed you know what I mean.

Generally, yes.

But you can create your live distro with a persistence memory. Anything you will store on it, will be available between different sessions (e.g. installed ledger live will be available).




You asked that already multiple times.
Try it out, or don't. It is up to you.




 ???

You are using an outdated OS. What do you expect ?
Just update your OS to the newest version (Windows 10) or use electrum together with the nano s to access your coins (even works on windows 7).

It is very understandable why security-orientated software won't be maintained for outdated OS's. Just use the latest version, or don't. Up to you.

Ok can you please guide me on how to create a live distro with persistence memory. Also how do I use the terminal in latest linux mint cinnamon distro, what commands do I put in there to access the ledger live as inputting the command chmod +x ledger-live-*.AppImage doesnt work straight away. Newbie question.

I would use electrum but im sure it doest do firmware updates right only ledger live correct?

Windows 7 is supported till 2020 I believe and im sure till then it is more secure than windows 10 as I hear win 10 collects data from its users in which windows 7 does not do.

There are multiple tools available which can do this for you.

One would be LinuxLive USB Creator (https://www.linuxliveusb.com/) for example.
It works with any distro you prefer.


Afterwards you first need to download the .appimage. Then open a terminal and navigate into the folder where you downloaded it into (usually in the Downloads folder in your home directory) with:

Then give ledger live execution permission:

Then you can run it by entering:




Yes, updates only work with ledger live.
I thought when you mentioned that it is quite a hassle to do this every time (download ledger live onto linux etc..) you meant you want to access your coins from it.

Sorry, i might have misunderstood you.




It is definitely less secure than windows 10.
Windows 7 is missing whole security concepts which are present in windows 10.

While it is true that windows 10 is collecting more data for 'enhancing user experience', it is still far more secure than windows 10.

Just because the extended support of Win7 is running until 2020 it doesn't mean that it can compete with Win10 security-wise.

very_452001, if all you need is to update firmware of Nano S maybe the best option would be to find some friend or relatives who have Windows 10, then just install Ledger Live and update your hardware wallet. It's a pretty simple and fast process which in no way jeopardizes your coins or that user PC.

You can go also with live linux, or you may try to update Windows 7 to Windows 10, it seems that it is still possible to do it completely free of charge. This way you can keep all your programs and data, and in same time get new OS.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5143555.msg51080610#msg51080610

Great, cheers. Is it possible to get persistence in a virtualbox?

Sure.
You don't even need to actively activate persistence.

In virtualbox you generate a virtual disk which then is the 'hard drive' of your virtual machine.
So, you don't need any 'persistence feature' additionally.

Please note that VirtualBox isn't likely to be as reliable as running a Live USB distro in terms of USB communication... the reason being that virtualbox still needs to communicate with USB devices via your Main OS, which can often cause issues.

Ok what about running virtualbox directly from USB and everything else from USB as well with nothing installed on the main host computer or you simply saying the best reliability method is running a live usb distro from fresh boot?

I don't think you can "boot" VirtualBox... it still needs to be run inside an OS of some description. No harm in trying VirtualBox and see if it works. You're not going to damage or break the Nano S. At worst the Ledger just won't be able to connect and you'll just waste a bit of time. If that doesn't work, then you can give the Live distro (with persistence) a go.

Likewise, there is no harm in trying Windows 7 in "safe mode" before you attempt any of this as it is probably the easiest/quickest solution to try first.



Given the choice, personally I'd just upgrade the box to Windows 10

Hi,

I have a 8gb usb stick.

I like to run the latest cinnamon linux mint 64 bit from a live USB stick from boot up with persistent. How do I do this?

If linux mint not supported then which distros or versions are supported?

What the max persistent in mb I can have on my usb stick?

Finally how do I do this again but on a virtual host computer so there's no need to boot or restart to use linux?

Any other methods that I haven't mentioned that easy to do?

Cant get persistence to work.

Linux Mint is apparently supported when using this tool: https://www.pendrivelinux.com/universal-usb-installer-easy-as-1-2-3/

According to this post on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxmint/comments/93c16u/how_to_easily_create_a_persistent_linux_mint_usb/e3p2nhm


Depends on how much free space is left after installing Linux Mint. I've not been able to find any stated requirements for Linux Mint on a bootable USB... but I'd guess at around 2-3 Gigs, as you're supposed to be able to burn it on a DVD and the ISO images are 2 Gigs. So, you should have a fair bit of free space on an 8 gig stick.


You install VirtualBox or Vmware or whatever virtualisation software you want to use... create a virtual machine and install the Linux OS as per the instructions for the virtualisation software. There are plenty of tutorials on YouTube etc... Google is your friend.

With the correct add-on to virtual box (which is only allowed for non-commercial use), USB communication works without a problem for me.
Did you experience problems already ? If so, generally with USB devices or specifically with the nano s / trezor ?

---

OP,

it might be useful if you explain what you exactly want to achieve with your virtual machine / linux live distro.

Do you only want to update the firmware of your nano s ? Or do you also want to use it for accessing your wallet / spending coins ?


This topic is going on for almost 3 weeks now.
You really don't need more than 30 minutes to accomplish everything.


I think a virtual machine should work fine (never tested it with a hardware wallet; but USB is always working fine for me). It just needs some configuration.

Booting a live linux does also work like a charm. There are tons of tutorials available on the internet. Some tools to create such a bootable USB with persistence have also been already mentioned by HCP and me.


I, personally, would choose the linux live distro (just a personal opinion).

The general workflow is:

• Create bootable USB (see HCP's link to tutorial)
• Boot the USB (maybe you need to set boot-order in BIOS, or access boot menu with F8 when booting)
• Download ledger live for linux (the *.AppImage), follow ledger's tutorial.
• Run ledger live and connect your nano S
• Update firmware
• Profit.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

But this really is no magic at all.
[/list]

Yeah my goal is to update the firmware of the ledger nano s and access the wallet too.

Ok virtualbox is for the public and vmware is for companies? However in your opinion you believe the bootable live linux distro from usb is the best method because in virtual machine on host it requires extra usb configurations to get it to work as compared to the the live bootable linux usb distro where no further configurations are required so in summary it comes down to ease of use?

If I take the virtual machine on host computer route then what are these extra configurations required to get usb to work?

Then a virtual machine is more handy IMO.




There are modules inside of virtualbox which are for non-commercial use (e.g. USB3.0). But since your usecase is non-commercial, everything is fine.




I wouldn't call one easier to use than the other.




The best would be if you start setting up a virtual machine, install ledger live and then check whether it works or not.
You may have to install the guest addition (can be done via virtualbox itself) to get interfaces or a better resolution working.

Just download it and set it up. And if it doesn't work somehow, we will gladly assist you further.

This --^


I think I accidentally confused him by mentioning that it is a possibility that USB can be problematic with VMs... especially if you're already experiencing USB communication issues with a certain device on the Host OS. #myBad

But at the end of the day, you'll never know unless you just try it.

Hi I setup virtualbox with linux mint however the problem is my 8gb usb stick is not recognised in the virtual guest linux mint. I installed the virtualbox extension pack. It is the blue usb 3.0 port at the top of the desktop. This works in host windows operating system fine with no problems so why not in the guest linux? I checked usb 3.0 in the usb settings in virtualbox manager.

So if I can't get a usb stick to work then ledger nano s usb hardware won't work too in the guest right?

Did you right click the little USB icon in the bottom right corner? It'll show you a list of USB devices attached to the Host which you can "pass through" to the Virtual Machine:

https://talkimg.com/images/2023/11/15/z9KF8.png

By default, they're not "connected" to the VM. You need to select the one(s) you want to be able to be available in the virtual machine and then the VM should "see" the device has been plugged in.


EDIT: Note, I also had to follow the instructions for Linux here: https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005165269-Fix-connection-issues to get it to recognise the Ledger Nano S correctly in VirtualBox with Ubuntu 16.04

The "plugdev" group seemed OK, it was point #2 with the udev rules that seemed to fix it. I

Yeah i did that in the picture by selecting the usb stick under devices usb but says failed to attach. The 8gb usb was formatted in windows fat32 i believe so will linux recognise it.

Ok i will try out the ledger nano s from the link you given. However will the idea be that if i cant get a normal usb stick then shall i assume ledger nano s usb hardware wont work?

Forgot to say will a VPN on the host system affect the virtual guest system in anyway?

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Hi yes another question is once i upgraded the firmware on linux can I go back to windows 7 and use ledger live on there to manage the coins or is there known issues to managing coins on windows 7?

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Please help the latest is i tried upgrading firmware in linux mint virtual guest. It downloaded firmware then it said disconnect usb and reconnect it while holding down the left button on device in which i did but its now stuck on the bootloader screen on device and nothing seems to be happening.

Without holding the left button I get the message on device screen the device MCU must be updated and while holding the left button I get that stuck bootloader screen on device.

I fear i may i have bricked the device after a nearly a month of precautions i was taking in this thread. Please help  :'(

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Ok I tried updating the ledger live application to version 1.8.1 and closed it in linux mint and when I try to reopen it the application doesn't open and now I get a error message there was an error launching the application. ???

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

When you try to connect the device in BootLoader mode... the system will see it as a different device (Note the different "name"), so you will need to reattach it:
https://talkimg.com/images/2023/11/15/z98uZ.png


Can't help with Ledger Live not running... I've not had any issues with the .appImage, but I'm using Ubuntu 16.04 on VirtualBox. Maybe try starting it from a Terminal window instead of simply clicking on the .AppImage icon... that way you might get to see any error messages generated.

Or you could try and use the browser in Linux Mint and just redownload the 1.8.1 .AppImage directly instead of trying to use the "update" feature: https://download-live.ledger.com/releases/latest/download/linux


Also, have you tried connecting to Ledger Live in Windows now? Does it do anything? It might be possible to use the "Repair" feature (settings -> help -> "Repair your ledger device"). Make sure that VirtualBox is shutdown before you use Ledger Live in Windows to prevent any conflicts with accessing the device.

Ok I wasn't aware of that. After a month of this thread why wasn't this told and warned earlier? Is there anything else I should know about before continuing?

Ok I will try it soon hope it works, wish me luck.

Ok I managed to get the ledger live app working.

Repair feature is my last is my last resort.

This isn't "official" support... and we can't possibly foresee every single eventually. We have no idea what you're actually doing when you run off and start downloading things, plugging things in and clicking things, nor what exact hardware you have or the configurations you've set... So, effectively, everything you do is at your own risk.


That's a good start... for the record I've installed the 1.8.1 AppImage on a Ubuntu 16.04 VM running in VirtualBox 6.0.8. I installed the vbox "extensions" in Windows Host (which was needed to make USB 2&3 work in the VM).

I've managed to connect my Ledger Nano S to Ledger Live (even installed a coin app using the Manager) and also connected it to Electrum 3.3.6 running in the VM.


What does the device actually do when you plug it in? Is it just stuck at "Bootloader" even after disconnecting and reconnecting? If so, then you'll definitely need to use the "repair" feature.

Ok I tried that and the ledger manager is now saying this:

oops, your device should not be in Bootloader mode
Please restart your device or contact us

How do I restart the device?

Tried what exactly? Using the Repair feature? ???

And you didn't answer my question... If you disconnect the device and then reconnect it (without holding any buttons), is it going straight to Bootloader?

Actually linux recognizes all file systems.

Just windows is capable of detecting windows-filesystems only.




Yes, your whole traffic will be routed through the VPN (assuming you simply bridged your VM).
But this shouldn't be a problem.



Did you try what HCP mentioned?
Getting the nano s into bootloader mode while uprgrading / attached to the VM (choosing the bootloader nano s as USB device) ?

What happens?


Also, how did you get the .appimage 'working' ?
Was just something misconfigured or did you change something (which you eventually shouldn't have changed) ?

No it doesnt say bootloader on ledger screen Instead it says when Without holding the left button I get the following on ledger screen MCU must be updated and while holding the left button I get that stuck bootloader message on ledger screen. So 2 different messages depending on left button is held or not.

Havent used the repair feature yet. Just to confirm the repair feature will ask for 24 words seed?

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Yeah i did try that on what HCP mentioned and I get ledger live app manager saying the following message
oops, your device should not be in Bootloader mode
Please restart your device or contact us.

How do i restart the device?

Yeah i got ledger live app working by updating it to version 1.8.1 from 1.8.0.

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

But, in windows or the linux VM?

HCP mentioned you might try to connect it via your windows host, which you replied with the mentioned message being shown.
If this message comes when you access it with your VM, that's weird.

Can you try the following (if you haven't already in this particular order) on your VM:

• Start ledger live
• Connect the nano s with the button pressed
• Activate the USB connection to your VM
• Try to start the firmware upgrade

What happens then? Do you get the message which says ".. device should not be in bootloader mode.." ?

Note that it might take a few minutes to update the firmware. Especially if their server are busy currently.




Usually just unplugging and re-plugging it.

Yeah in Linux VM. I don't use host windows 7 because I was informed earlier in this thread that ledger live app is not compatible with windows 7 hence I had to jump all these hoops/configurations and time to get this linux virtual machine running with ledger live and tried upgrading nano s device on it only to find out I ended up with this problem which could have been the same problem had I used windows 7 instead to begin with.

Yes I get that message your device should not be in Bootloader mode, clicked on retry but same message.

When you say Note that it might take a few minutes to update the firmware. Especially if their server are busy currently. Does this stage comes after the above message or before and how do I know servers are busy?

I think you complicated the situation much more than it needed, and I can not advice you about linux and VM. What you should do is to try finish firmware update in Windows 10 (it can be done on your friends or relatives device), or you can try to use Windows 7 in safe mode with networking (https://support.eset.com/kb2268/?locale=en_US&viewlocale=en_US). Some users report that this help them to finish firmware update, and this is the option you should try.

Regarding servers, they are probably not busy (we can not be 100% sure), but in your case problems are because of Windows 7 and fact that you skip few firmware updates. Ledger also say that it is not possible to update directly from 1.3.1 to 1.5.5 by using Ledger Live 1.8.0, you need to use version 1.7.0 for that (check link for that version).

https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360003117594-Troubleshoot-firmware-update
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/almehk/should_not_be_in_bootloader_mode/

Ok isn't the latest ledger live version 1.8.1 that recently been released fixes that not possible 1.3.1 to 1.5.5 issue so I don't need ledger live version 1.7.0?

Yeah I kinda worried that I have bricked my nano s  :'(

I could do it on linux virtualbox machine but each time nano s disconnects from computer I have to manually enable usb device again in the virtualbox machine so the virtual machine can recognise it. Is there a way in virtualbox that keeps the usb device constantly on and recognised when the software update disconnect the usb devices to avoid prompts on screen and avoid manual enabling?

Otherwise what do I do in windows 7 safe mode with networking? Do i open app first or connect nano s usb device 1st or which screen on ledger live app do I do what actions?

If Ledger is fix that problem in version 1.8.1 then you shoud use it, no need to download lower version. You do not have to worry that you bricked your Nano S, I had similar experiences and everything ended in the best way.

So try to use safe mode with networking, open Ledger Live and just follow this procedure :


https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360003117594-Troubleshoot-firmware-update

Although I had a case that my Ledger is stuck during update to 1.5.5 on W7, but I finish it just by using W10 (run Ledger Live + connect Nano S).

Ok I try it out, just to confirm its windows 10 safe mode not windows 7 safe mode and the repair mode in app is the only way to fix this and the repair doesn't ask for 24 word seed?

Version 1.8.1. of Ledger Live is meant to fix the update from firmware 1.3.1...

and there is a 1.9.1 version coming that will apparently assist with these "Bootloader" issues:


And then you have some users claiming that downgrading to 1.7.0 is what enabled them to recover... You can get 1.7.0 here: https://github.com/LedgerHQ/ledger-live-desktop/releases/tag/v1.7.0

At the end of the day, the device is recoverable... I've had it stuck in a "Bootloader/MCU needs to be updated" loop before and as long as you follow the instructions you'll be able to get it repaired.


Just try Windows 7 safe mode if that's what you have... If you have Windows 10, Ledger Live will work fine without doing anything extra. I can't remember if repair wiped the device and needed the 24 word seed mnemonic to be re-entered. I just tried "repairing" mine now and it didn't ask after flashing the bootloader... but the device didn't actually need repairing, so I'm not sure if it actually did anything.

My advice would be to make sure you have your 24 words handy just in case.

When do you think they will release ledger live version 1.9.1 officially as that sounds promising with bootloader issues or is the beta demo version on github stable to use now?

Are you somehow worried that you might have to enter your mnemonic code ?

You have asked that quite a lot whether you will have to enter them.

You should always(!) have a backup of your mnemonic code. Are you missing those words ??



Yes, you need the guest additions installed.
Then navigate into the setting folder -> USB -> add an filter "empty".
Then all USB devices which will be plugged in while the VM has the focus will be auto mounted in the VM.

I solved my problem with Windows 10, but not in safe mode. Since your only option is Windows 7, everything posted is related to that OS. Ledger will never ask you to type seed words anywhere then in Nano S (device), and that is 100% safe - and if you have those words your coins are safe even if you brick Nano S or if it is in any way damaged, stolen or anything else.

You main problem is Windows 7, and in post 52 I gave you the link for free Windows update from W7 -> W10 with option to keep all your programs / files. You have options to solve this problem, but you selects methods that are more complicated and difficult...

Ok now I need help on clarifying on something:

- While I hold the nano left button while plug in the USB I get the Bootloader message on nano s screen.

- If I don't hold the left button I get the following message instead on nano s screen Follow device update instructions, the device MCU must be updated.

So as you can see above there 2 different messages on device screen depending on the left button being held or not.


Now the main $64,000 question is which option do I select under repair your ledger device in ledger live app:

- Bootloader?
- MCU not genuine?
- Follow device repair instructions?

I fear if I select the wrong option I may really brick my device.

So far my experience with ledger hardware and software is not so good and this will not go down well with new crypto beginners coming into the crypto world and if there is truly to be world wide adoption of crypto where hardware wallets are like personal secure banks then this complex troubling experience has to go from hardware wallets 1st.

Do you have a problem with the Bootloader? Yes.
Is your MCU non-genuine? No.
Repair device? Maybe.

Choose yourself. You can not brick your nano s with the built-in functions from ledger live.




Well.. you are using an outdated OS which is not supported by ledger live.

The majority of people do not have a single problem with their nano s.

Do you finally have access to a windows 10 machine or linux or mac (something which is supported) ?
Or are you still trying to fix it using windows 7 ?

After a over a month of tension I am glad to say I got it fixed now :)

In Linux virtual machine the ledger live app had a prompt on screen today to update app to version 1.9.1 in which I did 1st then afterwards the app automatically suggested repair on screen and I clicked on continue to repair and it was all sorted and fixed running latest 1.5.5 firmware now and during the whole update process the 24 word seed wasn't asked for as this is really inconvenient to enter word by word letter by letter.

Thanks for all your help and if I need further help I be sure to check back here.

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Ok I remember when I bought the ledger nano s device couple of years ago it came with a pre-installed app called fido u2f. What is this app and shall I download it?

What other apps from ledger manager store that are not coin specific wallet apps? Like for example recovery check app is a tool not a wallet coin app.

Under device settings>security>passphrase> what are these 2 settings: set temporary and attach to a pin?


Ok... Im experiencing a new problem now and that is adding accounts in the ledger live app. I can add ethereum account but i'm not worried about ethereum account as I had 0 balance in that anyway however I worried about bitcoin as I can't seem to add btc account, the problem with the btc account is showing on my monitor it says connect and unlock your ledger device in which I do and get a tick then when it says navigate to the bitcoin app on your device in which i follow and do it goes back to the connect and unlock your ledger thing again which keeps spinning forever and nothing happens and cant access my bitcoins! I tried disconnecting usb and connect usb again but still same problem.

I have the latest versions of the apps.

Is there known bugs in the latest ledger live 1.9.1 in regards to btc app?

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

Congratulations on successfully updating and repairing! :)



This is an application for 2FA.

This basically is a hardware token (comparable to RSA secureID tokens).
This is way more secure than using a 2FA application on your mobile.

Whether or not you want to use it, depends on you.




You can check this site (https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/categories/115000811829-Apps) for all available apps.
Scroll down to the bottom to see non-wallet applications.

One example would be OpenPGP (useful if you are using PGP).




Attach to pin:
Will create a second 'ledger account'.
You then will be able to login either with your first or your second pin, each of those two generating a different set of private keys / addresses.

Temporary:
Creates a second 'ledger account' for just one session.
This is basically the same as above, just that the information are not stored on the nano s.
You will have to enter your passphrase each time you want to access this 'temporary account'.




In which OS ?
Your linux VM ?

Did you add the USB-filter "empty" to catch all USB devices ?

Like bob123 said it is a 2FA application.
The user aundroid created a nice tutorial that explains how to use the FidoU2F App together with a Ledger device. If you are interested you can check his tutorial here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5096882.0

Only problem you have is Windows 7, and that you using linux on VM. That is why you will probably have such or similar problems if you continue to use Ledger Live.

You should remove all apps from Nano S, and then first install BTC app, this may fix that problem. If you only want to use BTC, download Electrum and use it with Nano S, this is the simplest solution. Also seriously think about updating to Windows 10, you will save yourself a lot of time and headaches with that hardware wallet.

Ok when you say passphrase do you mean the 24 word seed?

Which tool apps you recommend to download for a average user like me? Im kinda worried on how much storage does the device have to install all these apps.

Yeah its linux virtual machine and yeah i added the usb empty filter. What could the problem be?

No. I always try to be as precisely as possible.

In my words:
Passphrase = A passphrase you can set (a password)
Mnemonic code = A seed encoded into 12/24 words
Seed = very long random number (rarely(!) also means the mnemonic code for easier understanding)




This depends on what you are using.
If you want to install multiple non-wallet apps, you probably won't be able to have all installed at the same time.

But you can always just uninstall, install a different application, uninstall it and reinstall the first one.
The data will NOT get lost. It is always derived from your seed.




I currently don't have a clue, sorry.
The virtual machine itself might be a problem, i don't know.

I would also suggest to simply update to windows 10.
Windows 7 is outdated, way less secure and you should have stopped using it like 3 years ago.

If you don't want to upgrade to win10 - for whatever reason - your fallback option would be a bootable linux distro (or even a dualboot beside windows).
This definitely works, since it is like a standard linux install.
But it is way less convenient.. you'd have to reboot your machine each time and boot into your live distro.

Ok i tried on a windows 10 computer and everything is working fine no problems.

Alright just to confirm linux virtual machine or windows 7 wont run smoothly with the ledger live app and you get problems such as usb connection issues etc.?

To get it work in linux I have to do a proper boot of linux not in virtual? I thought virtualbox linux virtual machine is like a proper linux with no difference between a proper bootable linux?

Is there anyway or tips or tricks I can do to get the linux virtual machine working like a proper linux?

Windows 7 definitely doesn't, because it is not supported.

A linux virtual machine seems (at least in your case) to not work properly with the nano s.
You can't generally say that you WILL get usb connection issues with with your virtual machine. But since the OS on your VM is supported and your nano s is not broken, it seems like the VM is the point of failure.




Your linux in the VM is a proper linux.
But the host OS (your win7, but doesn't matter which OS) handles the 'forwarding' of the USB connection to the VM.

It is an encapsulated machine with interfaces being managed by your host OS.


A regularly installed linux would have direct access to the USB ports and therefore no 'middleman' which can mess up something.




As mentioned, it is working like a real linux itself. The problem are the interfaces. Or more precisely: the management of the USB interfaces by your VM software / windows.

However, i believe it should work in a virtual machine.

Just to confirm, did you update the udev rules on your virtual machine ?
Check https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005165269 (https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005165269) under "Linux" on how to do this.

Im sure I did the udev rules thing otherwise how did I manage to update the nano s successfully via usb previously on linux virtual? Why is it that just the adding btc account/opening up the btc wallet doesn't work and everything else works on linux virtual?

Most likely because you're using the software and hardware in a way that it was never designed to be used... and, somewhat unsurprisingly, you're getting unexpected results. Like I mentioned a while back... trying to use USB devices with virtual machines can be problematic due to it essentially being a software emulation of a physical hardware interface.

Having said that, I am able to make it work on Ubuntu 16.04 VM, but running on a Windows 10 host. It could be something as random as a latency issue due to OS version or drivers etc preventing the process from working properly.

Have you tried opening Ledger Live, then connecting the Ledger Device, unlocking with PIN and then selecting Bitcoin app on the device BEFORE you select "add account" in Ledger Live?

Yeah i tried that but still no success.

At this point then... I would suggest that your options are:

- Try a different Linux VM (Ubuntu 16.04 LTS seems to work OK for me, but like I said, I'm on Win10)
- Try running Ledger Live on Windows 7
- Try running Ledger Live on Windows 7 (Safe Mode + Networking)
- Upgrade to Windows 10
- Create a bootable Linux USB
- Try and troubleshoot the Linux VM

I can approve that.

I was able to run ledger live in combination with my nano s without problems using a manjaro VM on my arch host.
So, running the nano s inside a VM does indeed work.

Mint itself doesn't seem to be the problem either. It is working as expected on a regular mint install (non-VM).


Your best bet really would be to  upgrade to windows 10.
Is there even a single reason you want to stick to an outdated, unsecure OS ?

And i hope your argument is not that windows 10 is collecting tons of data. While this is true, it is still better than missing quite a lot (important) security features in your OS, isn't it ?

 Ledger vulnerability: Is it time to look for a new hardware wallet? (https://eng.ambcrypto.com/ledger-vulnerability-is-it-time-to-look-for-a-new-hardware-wallet//)

In less than two weeks, Ledger has suffered a data breach and has a new vulnerability. The latter is a bug that allows the hacker to spend Bitcoins while the user spends altcoins. The vulnerability was exposed by Liquality developer Mohammed Nokhbeh who stated that the Ledger,
…presents misleading transaction confirmation requests indicating the selected apps addresses and amounts when in fact different transactions are being signed.
With the price of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies surging, the pre-bull run hype is starting to build up. With this hype comes attention and scammers arent far off. The new vulnerability puts the crypto wallet maker in a tough spot, especially with its close competitor Trezor right on Ledgers neck.
According to the post by Nokhbeh, this vulnerability affects the forks of bitcoin like Bitcoin Cash, Litecoin, Testnet Bitcoins, etc.

https://i.imgur.com/FmjfTfq.png

Seeing you are not doing this the first time...
If you just copy/paste text like this without using a single word of your own... you better quote it, or make some effort to write a word or two  ::)

While not as super obvious as actually wrapping it in [ quote ] tags... at least they led with a direct link to the article that they've taken the text from. So, it's at least somewhat obvious where the text has come from.

IMO this is quite misleading.

Quote tags would show how the whole post only consists of a single quote taken from a website. He didn't even write a single word on his own.
I wonder whether his sig campaign pays for something like that..