Ledger Nano S usability questions

[HCP]

They're actually pretty difficult to hard "brick"... and if you have your 24 word seed, then you still have a safe full wallet backup which will enable you to recover your funds if something does go wrong.

If you're concerned about using Windows 7, you could always try and use a live linux distro... run Ubuntu from a "live" USB drive and connect/update your Ledger that way. Might be "safer" than trying to run Ledger Live on an unsupported OS and have it crashing unexpectedly.

Creating/Running a live linux distro is relatively easy these days... refer: https://tutorials.ubuntu.com/tutorial/tutorial-create-a-usb-stick-on-windows

[very_452001]

They're actually pretty difficult to hard "brick"... and if you have your 24 word seed, then you still have a safe full wallet backup which will enable you to recover your funds if something does go wrong.

If you're concerned about using Windows 7, you could always try and use a live linux distro... run Ubuntu from a "live" USB drive and connect/update your Ledger that way. Might be "safer" than trying to run Ledger Live on an unsupported OS and have it crashing unexpectedly.

Creating/Running a live linux distro is relatively easy these days... refer: https://tutorials.ubuntu.com/tutorial/tutorial-create-a-usb-stick-on-windows

Ok is Ubuntu the best live linux distro out there? Im looking for a live linux distro thats user friendly like windows you know what I mean and how do I install Ledger Live on Linux?

[TryNinja]

Ok is Ubuntu the best live linux distro out there? Im looking for a live linux distro thats user friendly like windows you know what I mean and how do I install Ledger Live on Linux?

I don't think there is such a thing as "best distro". Ubuntu or Linux Mint should do the trick.

To install Ledger Live on Linux:

1. Go to https://www.ledger.com/pages/ledger-live.
2. Download the Ledger Live AppImage.
3. Make the file executable.
4. In a terminal: chmod +x ledger-live-*.AppImage
5. Launch the AppImage by double clicking on it or via your terminal.

https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360006395553-Download-and-install-Ledger-Live

[very_452001]

Ok is a live linux distro off usb means it is like a ROM as in like cd-rom where nothing is written to the usb meaning whenever I restart linux I have to download and install ledger live over and over again whenever I wanna use it after computer restart?

If so can anyone confirm whether windows 7 safe mode with networking works as the above method seems tedious.

So far it's not looking good for ease of use factor for hardware wallets and if bitcoin wants to grow to the masses this inconvenience needs to be removed you know what I mean.

[bob123]

Ok is a live linux distro off usb means it is like a ROM as in like cd-rom where nothing is written to the usb meaning whenever I restart linux I have to download and install ledger live over and over again whenever I wanna use it after computer restart?

Generally, yes.

But you can create your live distro with a persistence memory. Anything you will store on it, will be available between different sessions (e.g. installed ledger live will be available).

If so can anyone confirm whether windows 7 safe mode with networking works as the above method seems tedious.

You asked that already multiple times.
Try it out, or don't. It is up to you.

So far it's not looking good for ease of use factor for hardware wallets and if bitcoin wants to grow to the masses this inconvenience needs to be removed you know what I mean.

 

You are using an outdated OS. What do you expect ?
Just update your OS to the newest version (Windows 10) or use electrum together with the nano s to access your coins (even works on windows 7).

It is very understandable why security-orientated software won't be maintained for outdated OS's. Just use the latest version, or don't. Up to you.

[very_452001]

Ok is a live linux distro off usb means it is like a ROM as in like cd-rom where nothing is written to the usb meaning whenever I restart linux I have to download and install ledger live over and over again whenever I wanna use it after computer restart?

Generally, yes.

But you can create your live distro with a persistence memory. Anything you will store on it, will be available between different sessions (e.g. installed ledger live will be available).

If so can anyone confirm whether windows 7 safe mode with networking works as the above method seems tedious.

You asked that already multiple times.
Try it out, or don't. It is up to you.

So far it's not looking good for ease of use factor for hardware wallets and if bitcoin wants to grow to the masses this inconvenience needs to be removed you know what I mean.

 

You are using an outdated OS. What do you expect ?
Just update your OS to the newest version (Windows 10) or use electrum together with the nano s to access your coins (even works on windows 7).

It is very understandable why security-orientated software won't be maintained for outdated OS's. Just use the latest version, or don't. Up to you.

Ok can you please guide me on how to create a live distro with persistence memory. Also how do I use the terminal in latest linux mint cinnamon distro, what commands do I put in there to access the ledger live as inputting the command chmod +x ledger-live-*.AppImage doesnt work straight away. Newbie question.

I would use electrum but im sure it doest do firmware updates right only ledger live correct?

Windows 7 is supported till 2020 I believe and im sure till then it is more secure than windows 10 as I hear win 10 collects data from its users in which windows 7 does not do.

[bob123]

Ok can you please guide me on how to create a live distro with persistence memory. Also how do I use the terminal in latest linux mint cinnamon distro, what commands do I put in there to access the ledger live as inputting the command chmod +x ledger-live-*.AppImage doesnt work straight away. Newbie question.

There are multiple tools available which can do this for you.

One would be LinuxLive USB Creator for example.
It works with any distro you prefer.


Afterwards you first need to download the .appimage. Then open a terminal and navigate into the folder where you downloaded it into (usually in the Downloads folder in your home directory) with:

Code:

cd Downloads

Then give ledger live execution permission:

Code:

chmod +x Filename.AppImage

Then you can run it by entering:

Code:

./Filename.AppImage

I would use electrum but im sure it doest do firmware updates right only ledger live correct?

Yes, updates only work with ledger live.
I thought when you mentioned that it is quite a hassle to do this every time (download ledger live onto linux etc..) you meant you want to access your coins from it.

Sorry, i might have misunderstood you.

Windows 7 is supported till 2020 I believe and im sure till then it is more secure than windows 10 as I hear win 10 collects data from its users in which windows 7 does not do.

It is definitely less secure than windows 10.
Windows 7 is missing whole security concepts which are present in windows 10.

While it is true that windows 10 is collecting more data for 'enhancing user experience', it is still far more secure than windows 10.

Just because the extended support of Win7 is running until 2020 it doesn't mean that it can compete with Win10 security-wise.

[Lucius]

very_452001, if all you need is to update firmware of Nano S maybe the best option would be to find some friend or relatives who have Windows 10, then just install Ledger Live and update your hardware wallet. It's a pretty simple and fast process which in no way jeopardizes your coins or that user PC.

You can go also with live linux, or you may try to update Windows 7 to Windows 10, it seems that it is still possible to do it completely free of charge. This way you can keep all your programs and data, and in same time get new OS.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5143555.msg51080610#msg51080610

[very_452001]

Ok can you please guide me on how to create a live distro with persistence memory. Also how do I use the terminal in latest linux mint cinnamon distro, what commands do I put in there to access the ledger live as inputting the command chmod +x ledger-live-*.AppImage doesnt work straight away. Newbie question.

There are multiple tools available which can do this for you.

One would be LinuxLive USB Creator for example.
It works with any distro you prefer.


Afterwards you first need to download the .appimage. Then open a terminal and navigate into the folder where you downloaded it into (usually in the Downloads folder in your home directory) with:

Code:

cd Downloads

Then give ledger live execution permission:

Code:

chmod +x Filename.AppImage

Then you can run it by entering:

Code:

./Filename.AppImage

I would use electrum but im sure it doest do firmware updates right only ledger live correct?

Yes, updates only work with ledger live.
I thought when you mentioned that it is quite a hassle to do this every time (download ledger live onto linux etc..) you meant you want to access your coins from it.

Sorry, i might have misunderstood you.

Windows 7 is supported till 2020 I believe and im sure till then it is more secure than windows 10 as I hear win 10 collects data from its users in which windows 7 does not do.

It is definitely less secure than windows 10.
Windows 7 is missing whole security concepts which are present in windows 10.

While it is true that windows 10 is collecting more data for 'enhancing user experience', it is still far more secure than windows 10.

Just because the extended support of Win7 is running until 2020 it doesn't mean that it can compete with Win10 security-wise.

Great, cheers. Is it possible to get persistence in a virtualbox?

[bob123]

Great, cheers. Is it possible to get persistence in a virtualbox?

Sure.
You don't even need to actively activate persistence.

In virtualbox you generate a virtual disk which then is the 'hard drive' of your virtual machine.
So, you don't need any 'persistence feature' additionally.

[HCP]

Please note that VirtualBox isn't likely to be as reliable as running a Live USB distro in terms of USB communication... the reason being that virtualbox still needs to communicate with USB devices via your Main OS, which can often cause issues.

[very_452001]

Please note that VirtualBox isn't likely to be as reliable as running a Live USB distro in terms of USB communication... the reason being that virtualbox still needs to communicate with USB devices via your Main OS, which can often cause issues.

Ok what about running virtualbox directly from USB and everything else from USB as well with nothing installed on the main host computer or you simply saying the best reliability method is running a live usb distro from fresh boot?

[HCP]

I don't think you can "boot" VirtualBox... it still needs to be run inside an OS of some description. No harm in trying VirtualBox and see if it works. You're not going to damage or break the Nano S. At worst the Ledger just won't be able to connect and you'll just waste a bit of time. If that doesn't work, then you can give the Live distro (with persistence) a go.

Likewise, there is no harm in trying Windows 7 in "safe mode" before you attempt any of this as it is probably the easiest/quickest solution to try first.



Given the choice, personally I'd just upgrade the box to Windows 10

[very_452001]

Ok can you please guide me on how to create a live distro with persistence memory. Also how do I use the terminal in latest linux mint cinnamon distro, what commands do I put in there to access the ledger live as inputting the command chmod +x ledger-live-*.AppImage doesnt work straight away. Newbie question.

There are multiple tools available which can do this for you.

One would be LinuxLive USB Creator for example.
It works with any distro you prefer.


Afterwards you first need to download the .appimage. Then open a terminal and navigate into the folder where you downloaded it into (usually in the Downloads folder in your home directory) with:

Code:

cd Downloads

Then give ledger live execution permission:

Code:

chmod +x Filename.AppImage

Then you can run it by entering:

Code:

./Filename.AppImage

I would use electrum but im sure it doest do firmware updates right only ledger live correct?

Yes, updates only work with ledger live.
I thought when you mentioned that it is quite a hassle to do this every time (download ledger live onto linux etc..) you meant you want to access your coins from it.

Sorry, i might have misunderstood you.

Windows 7 is supported till 2020 I believe and im sure till then it is more secure than windows 10 as I hear win 10 collects data from its users in which windows 7 does not do.

It is definitely less secure than windows 10.
Windows 7 is missing whole security concepts which are present in windows 10.

While it is true that windows 10 is collecting more data for 'enhancing user experience', it is still far more secure than windows 10.

Just because the extended support of Win7 is running until 2020 it doesn't mean that it can compete with Win10 security-wise.

Great, cheers. Is it possible to get persistence in a virtualbox?

Hi,

I have a 8gb usb stick.

I like to run the latest cinnamon linux mint 64 bit from a live USB stick from boot up with persistent. How do I do this?

If linux mint not supported then which distros or versions are supported?

What the max persistent in mb I can have on my usb stick?

Finally how do I do this again but on a virtual host computer so there's no need to boot or restart to use linux?

Any other methods that I haven't mentioned that easy to do?

Cant get persistence to work.

[HCP]

I have a 8gb usb stick.
I like to run the latest cinnamon linux mint 64 bit from a live USB stick from boot up with persistent. How do I do this?
If linux mint not supported then which distros or versions are supported?

Linux Mint is apparently supported when using this tool: https://www.pendrivelinux.com/universal-usb-installer-easy-as-1-2-3/

According to this post on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxmint/comments/93c16u/how_to_easily_create_a_persistent_linux_mint_usb/e3p2nhm

What the max persistent in mb I can have on my usb stick?

Depends on how much free space is left after installing Linux Mint. I've not been able to find any stated requirements for Linux Mint on a bootable USB... but I'd guess at around 2-3 Gigs, as you're supposed to be able to burn it on a DVD and the ISO images are 2 Gigs. So, you should have a fair bit of free space on an 8 gig stick.

Finally how do I do this again but on a virtual host computer so there's no need to boot or restart to use linux?

You install VirtualBox or Vmware or whatever virtualisation software you want to use... create a virtual machine and install the Linux OS as per the instructions for the virtualisation software. There are plenty of tutorials on YouTube etc... Google is your friend.

[bob123]

Please note that VirtualBox isn't likely to be as reliable as running a Live USB distro in terms of USB communication... the reason being that virtualbox still needs to communicate with USB devices via your Main OS, which can often cause issues.

With the correct add-on to virtual box (which is only allowed for non-commercial use), USB communication works without a problem for me.
Did you experience problems already ? If so, generally with USB devices or specifically with the nano s / trezor ?


OP,

it might be useful if you explain what you exactly want to achieve with your virtual machine / linux live distro.

Do you only want to update the firmware of your nano s ? Or do you also want to use it for accessing your wallet / spending coins ?


This topic is going on for almost 3 weeks now.
You really don't need more than 30 minutes to accomplish everything.


I think a virtual machine should work fine (never tested it with a hardware wallet; but USB is always working fine for me). It just needs some configuration.

Booting a live linux does also work like a charm. There are tons of tutorials available on the internet. Some tools to create such a bootable USB with persistence have also been already mentioned by HCP and me.


I, personally, would choose the linux live distro (just a personal opinion).

The general workflow is:

• Create bootable USB (see HCP's link to tutorial)
• Boot the USB (maybe you need to set boot-order in BIOS, or access boot menu with F8 when booting)
• Download ledger live for linux (the *.AppImage), follow ledger's tutorial.
• Run ledger live and connect your nano S
• Update firmware
• Profit.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

But this really is no magic at all.
[/list]

[very_452001]

Please note that VirtualBox isn't likely to be as reliable as running a Live USB distro in terms of USB communication... the reason being that virtualbox still needs to communicate with USB devices via your Main OS, which can often cause issues.

With the correct add-on to virtual box (which is only allowed for non-commercial use), USB communication works without a problem for me.
Did you experience problems already ? If so, generally with USB devices or specifically with the nano s / trezor ?


OP,

it might be useful if you explain what you exactly want to achieve with your virtual machine / linux live distro.

Do you only want to update the firmware of your nano s ? Or do you also want to use it for accessing your wallet / spending coins ?


This topic is going on for almost 3 weeks now.
You really don't need more than 30 minutes to accomplish everything.


I think a virtual machine should work fine (never tested it with a hardware wallet; but USB is always working fine for me). It just needs some configuration.

Booting a live linux does also work like a charm. There are tons of tutorials available on the internet. Some tools to create such a bootable USB with persistence have also been already mentioned by HCP and me.


I, personally, would choose the linux live distro (just a personal opinion).

The general workflow is:

• Create bootable USB (see HCP's link to tutorial)
• Boot the USB (maybe you need to set boot-order in BIOS, or access boot menu with F8 when booting)
• Download ledger live for linux (the *.AppImage), follow ledger's tutorial.
• Run ledger live and connect your nano S
• Update firmware
• Profit.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

But this really is no magic at all.
[/list]

Yeah my goal is to update the firmware of the ledger nano s and access the wallet too.

Ok virtualbox is for the public and vmware is for companies? However in your opinion you believe the bootable live linux distro from usb is the best method because in virtual machine on host it requires extra usb configurations to get it to work as compared to the the live bootable linux usb distro where no further configurations are required so in summary it comes down to ease of use?

If I take the virtual machine on host computer route then what are these extra configurations required to get usb to work?

[bob123]

Yeah my goal is to update the firmware of the ledger nano s and access the wallet too.

Then a virtual machine is more handy IMO.

Ok virtualbox is for the public and vmware is for companies?

There are modules inside of virtualbox which are for non-commercial use (e.g. USB3.0). But since your usecase is non-commercial, everything is fine.

[...] it comes down to ease of use?

I wouldn't call one easier to use than the other.

If I take the virtual machine on host computer route then what are these extra configurations required to get usb to work?

The best would be if you start setting up a virtual machine, install ledger live and then check whether it works or not.
You may have to install the guest addition (can be done via virtualbox itself) to get interfaces or a better resolution working.

Just download it and set it up. And if it doesn't work somehow, we will gladly assist you further.

[HCP]

Just download it and set it up. And if it doesn't work somehow, we will gladly assist you further.

This --^


I think I accidentally confused him by mentioning that it is a possibility that USB can be problematic with VMs... especially if you're already experiencing USB communication issues with a certain device on the Host OS. #myBad

But at the end of the day, you'll never know unless you just try it.

[very_452001]

Hi I setup virtualbox with linux mint however the problem is my 8gb usb stick is not recognised in the virtual guest linux mint. I installed the virtualbox extension pack. It is the blue usb 3.0 port at the top of the desktop. This works in host windows operating system fine with no problems so why not in the guest linux? I checked usb 3.0 in the usb settings in virtualbox manager.

So if I can't get a usb stick to work then ledger nano s usb hardware won't work too in the guest right?